I told you he's always honest with me....

[OWoman]

KG, you asked:

 

He can say all those other good things about her, or that he basically doesn't intend to leave her, so why not tell me he loves her? What's so hard about that if its true?

 

But you gave your own answer here:

 

If he would have told me, even ONCE, just tell me ONE TIME "I am in love with my wife" I would walk away, no questions asked.

 

He doesn't tell you he loves his W because you'd walk away. Inasmuch as you (think you) can read him, he can read you.

 

 

Trust me, as I've said before....he may not say everything, but of the things he tells me he doesn't lie. He's not very good at lying to me. If he doesn't want to tell me something, he'd rather just avoid the topic altogether.

 

So have you asked him directly if he loves his W? Has he said he doesn't... or has he "rather just avoided the topic altogether"? What does that tell you - by your own line of reasoning?

[NoIDidn't]

The Green Card issue is moot. It doesn't matter why he got married, the fact is that he IS married and is CHOOSING to STAY married.

 

Whether or not he loves KG is moot. It doesn't matter if he does or not, as he is still hurting her per the above and he has NO DESIRE to change that - regardless of what is read into what is being said.

 

The man is emotionally unavailable - to his W, his kids, and to KG. Everyone he touches in a relationship is going to be hurt.

 

All the rationalizations in the world won't change the fact that KG will not get what she really wants from this deal. He's getting what he wants. Period.

[2sunny]

i'm wondering what she is gaining by playing the victim role here?

[KismetGirl]

i'm wondering what she is gaining by playing the victim role here?

 

not "trying" to play any role, really. just type whatever i'm feeling as i feel it, generally. Whether I come off as playing that role, it's not intentional I suppose, it's just how I feel at that moment.

 

While I'm aware that emotions are uncontrollable , while actions are in your control, these two are often in conflict . It's hard to do some things while your heart/brain really don't want to.

[Dexter Morgan]

i'm wondering what she is gaining by playing the victim role here?

 

don't know, but the only victim here is the MM's wife.

[datura_noir]

You will be so over this guy in 1 year. Mark my words.I just have a gut feeling.

 

I don't know how or why, but but that straw is getting awfully close to that certain camel's back-and things are about to implode....

 

I'm going to pass on the advice, I think it's been doled out here in spades, and it has all been very good. I can't add anything.

 

Just promise you'll come back to update us on the good news.

[2sunny]

she knows what will ultimately make her happy. she just needs to gather the courage to walk through the pain to get to the other side... big hugs KG!

[Billie63]

Before we didnt think there was ANY reason. But it makes sense to me that he is English. People in the US clearly cheat but in Europe its even more rampant and acceptable. Not acceptable but blindeyed.

.

 

I must just say that British people generally dont have the sophisticated view to infidelity that the French do. The British constantly talk about the French view to infidelity with bemusement. The British don't really consider themselves European even though we come under that continent. We have a more US view to it than the rest of Europe. I say that with no judgement.

[OWoman]

I must just say that British people generally dont have the sophisticated view to infidelity that the French do. The British constantly talk about the French view to infidelity with bemusement. The British don't really consider themselves European even though we come under that continent. We have a more US view to it than the rest of Europe. I say that with no judgement.

 

I live in a tiny village in the UK and the views on "infidelity" may not match the stereotyped lionising of the French, but it's really seen as no big deal. When my fiance was still married, not a single person ever showed anything other than complete support and encouragement for our R - there was certainly none of the outrage that I've seen expressed on this site from some US posters. The views here I've encountered have always been calm, pragmatic and matter-of-fact. It's not romanticised or seen as a macho achievement, but it's not seen as anything bad, either - it's simply accepted as the way it is.

[Billie63]

I live in a tiny village in the UK and the views on "infidelity" may not match the stereotyped lionising of the French, but it's really seen as no big deal. When my fiance was still married, not a single person ever showed anything other than complete support and encouragement for our R - there was certainly none of the outrage that I've seen expressed on this site from some US posters. The views here I've encountered have always been calm, pragmatic and matter-of-fact. It's not romanticised or seen as a macho achievement, but it's not seen as anything bad, either - it's simply accepted as the way it is.

 

Well,in your situation your MM was married to a lunatic and people all over the world are generally glad to see someone dump some sad act - people generally don't expect anyone to stay married to a nasty bitch for the sake of respectability. Let's not forget this is a website and no one can really 'get' how unsuitable two people are for each other until they actually witness their interaction.

[Ramrod]

I know I shouldn't be responding since I don't condone affairs, but Kismet you seem to be searching for something he simply doesn't have to give you. I know one of the things that may be at the root of all OW problems is self-esteem. Do you believe getting a married man to say "I love you" is some sort of validation, or high praise? For goodness sakes, your his booty-call, or mistress if you prefer, why is second fiddle good enough for you. This guy is clearly a first class narcissitic jerk. He comes over, boinks you and doesn't even have the charity to toss out an I love you? Which coming from him would be absolutely meaningless anyway. Goodness, he is married you know?

[boldjack]

Kg, You seem to have no sense of self-worth at all. As a reformed cheater, I have to admire his ability to manipulate you. He has you trained so well that ANY word that falls from his mouth is to you like "the voice of heaven" He hugs you, and holds you and says all the things you need, to keep you in turmoil, and you lap it up and beg for more. He artfully uses lies, truths and half-truths, the way a dog trainer uses sharp words and treats to keep it in line. I wouldn't wish what's happening to you on a dog, which ( in spite of his sweet words and sex) is exactly what you are to him. You are his sweet, available, sexy toy. I'm so sorry

[Spark1111]

That he's being an idiot. That if he really loves his wife and is happy with her he wouldn't be cheating on her for four years. That if he really loves her that much he should be working on his marriage instead of running to me. That he's hurt me inconceivably over the last four years and that the only people he ever says he fears hurting are his family when they don't even know what's going on. That what he's doing isn't fair.

 

I don't know. Any of teh above. All of the above?

 

OH, KG!!!!!!!.....be so proud of yourself! You are arriving at strong, productive insights that many take years to reach. You are objectively seeing his confusion, "fence-sitting," lack of decisiveness and how there is no forward movement in either planning a future with you, or repairing his marriage with her. The next step, all love-like feelings aside....(and I know, easier said then done) is can you accept this life? Based on your pain, obviously you can't, won't, no longer want to. Listen to this pain. It will guide you towards making the right decision for you. You are almost there, whether you realize it or not. I am proud of you. This is true growth

[pelicanpreacher]

KG, you've been given excellent advice, support, and insight validating every reason that you should walk without hesitation and never look back yet, the questions that you've raised continue to haunt your choice to act in your own best interests. You've provided the additional information about his immigration/naturalization status in support of your views on his marriage and it has provided the smoke in your mind that leads you to believe a fire is afoot. At the risk of having my "player's card" suspended I'll tell you exactly why this man remains in his marriage and why you'll probably never have him.

 

1st, I'm going to ask for you to think like a man and assimilate the following information from that point of view.

 

1) Your former boss was overheard to threaten your MM with deportment on several occasions prior to his marriage if he ever screwed up. The question that begs is what actions do you think he immediately took to protect himself from this worst case scenario. Answer: Seek legal council to understand his rights or at least research his options. These are the things that he found out! This http://www.hooyou.com/naturalization/requirements.html and this

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title08/8-1.0.1.3.88.html

 

2) As you stated before, for the sake of good standing for future employment and to ward off any attempts to upset his citizenship apple cart by your former boss, he hurriedly found someone to marry he found at least palitable. He immediately starting siring children with his wife for the expressed purpose of buying time because the longer her life was locked down at home raising kids the more dependent she'd be on him for her financial welfare. When he feels that she is so completely invested in him for financial security that she won't make waves should he pursue a divorce giving her generous terms, then and only then, will he take steps to end this marriage of inconvenience should she hold any unknown cards about his infidelity.

 

3) Though your observations and intuition regarding the romantic state of their marriage may be correct he is still sitting under the "Sword of Damocles" because, as you note in the links above, if his marriage falls apart due to infidelity he could still be deported whether he achieved naturalized citizenship or not for there is no statute of limitations prohibiting INS from revoking citizenship if ever they preceive the marriage was entered into or engaged perceptually throughout on a fraudulent basis whether it be year 1 or year 91 for the first marriage of record filed! Though state divorce court may place little emphasis on the evidence of infidelity, INS court is not likely to be so liberal and may not need much more than the appearance of impropriety to satisfy their findings for this allegation.

 

4) These draconian laws have put your MM in a state of perpetual conundrum worthy of the curse of Cassandra for though he might not love his wife he can never tell you or anyone else that or ever allow her to report to the INS that his unfaithfulness during the course of this marriage lead to divorce for he might not only be deported but also barred from re-entry by being put on Homeland Security's watch list. Likewise, he can never tell you or anyone else that he loves you during the course of his marriage for fear that you or whoever may act aggresively to trigger this information into the hands of the INS resulting in the same conclusion of deportation. Finally, he can't be slick and divorce her, let the dust settle, and then marry you sometime later because his wife isn't as stupid as you make her out to be for she is the one that found your red hair on her white comforter and probably still holds this and other evidence in safekeeping should your MM fly the coop to be with you ever in life. Though his wife might be aware that she isn't "belle of the ball" she is acutely aware that he is a handsome man, a steady earner, a good father to the children, witty, charming, and blah blah blah (all the outward features you find so attractive) so having a trophy husband to parade about might be an acceptable exchange for lack of passion in favor of sustaining the status quo and the perks that come with it.

 

In the end, I kind of feel for this guy because throughout his tenure within these United States he has always been at the mercy of some woman poised to change his tune from "God Bless America" to "God Save the Queen" so fast that his a$$ would be whizzing back to England over water before his shadow heard the rumor! Its no wonder he's always paranoid and freaks out all the time! LOL!

 

Hopefully your questions have been answered but the question that still begs is "How do I know for a fact that he doesn't love you"? (I dare ya to ask ... I double dare ya!)

[2sunny]

if he's used to not communicating much at home or in his daily life - then he is just taking that lack of skills to you as well. what's attractive about a man that doesn't know how to express himself with words? and what's attractive about the fact that he doesn't try to be better at it? THAT alone would be discouraging and frustrating enough for me.

 

he also may just have you as a backup plan in case he loses his green card due to divorce.

 

so - he may not actually care at all - just using you - for a number of reasons. you are the most likely suspect because you don't ask for or demand anything from him... soooooo easy for him.

[KismetGirl]

KG, you've been given excellent advice, support, and insight validating every reason that you should walk without hesitation and never look back yet, the questions that you've raised continue to haunt your choice to act in your own best interests. You've provided the additional information about his immigration/naturalization status in support of your views on his marriage and it has provided the smoke in your mind that leads you to believe a fire is afoot. At the risk of having my "player's card" suspended I'll tell you exactly why this man remains in his marriage and why you'll probably never have him.

 

1st, I'm going to ask for you to think like a man and assimilate the following information from that point of view.

 

1) Your former boss was overheard to threaten your MM with deportment on several occasions prior to his marriage if he ever screwed up. The question that begs is what actions do you think he immediately took to protect himself from this worst case scenario. Answer: Seek legal council to understand his rights or at least research his options. These are the things that he found out! This http://www.hooyou.com/naturalization/requirements.html and this

http://law.justia.com/us/cfr/title08/8-1.0.1.3.88.html

 

2) As you stated before, for the sake of good standing for future employment and to ward off any attempts to upset his citizenship apple cart by your former boss, he hurriedly found someone to marry he found at least palitable. He immediately starting siring children with his wife for the expressed purpose of buying time because the longer her life was locked down at home raising kids the more dependent she'd be on him for her financial welfare. When he feels that she is so completely invested in him for financial security that she won't make waves should he pursue a divorce giving her generous terms, then and only then, will he take steps to end this marriage of inconvenience should she hold any unknown cards about his infidelity.

 

3) Though your observations and intuition regarding the romantic state of their marriage may be correct he is still sitting under the "Sword of Damocles" because, as you note in the links above, if his marriage falls apart due to infidelity he could still be deported whether he achieved naturalized citizenship or not for there is no statute of limitations prohibiting INS from revoking citizenship if ever they preceive the marriage was entered into or engaged perceptually throughout on a fraudulent basis whether it be year 1 or year 91 for the first marriage of record filed! Though state divorce court may place little emphasis on the evidence of infidelity, INS court is not likely to be so liberal and may not need much more than the appearance of impropriety to satisfy their findings for this allegation.

 

4) These draconian laws have put your MM in a state of perpetual conundrum worthy of the curse of Cassandra for though he might not love his wife he can never tell you or anyone else that or ever allow her to report to the INS that his unfaithfulness during the course of this marriage lead to divorce for he might not only be deported but also barred from re-entry by being put on Homeland Security's watch list. Likewise, he can never tell you or anyone else that he loves you during the course of his marriage for fear that you or whoever may act aggresively to trigger this information into the hands of the INS resulting in the same conclusion of deportation. Finally, he can't be slick and divorce her, let the dust settle, and then marry you sometime later because his wife isn't as stupid as you make her out to be for she is the one that found your red hair on her white comforter and probably still holds this and other evidence in safekeeping should your MM fly the coop to be with you ever in life. Though his wife might be aware that she isn't "belle of the ball" she is acutely aware that he is a handsome man, a steady earner, a good father to the children, witty, charming, and blah blah blah (all the outward features you find so attractive) so having a trophy husband to parade about might be an acceptable exchange for lack of passion in favor of sustaining the status quo and the perks that come with it.

 

In the end, I kind of feel for this guy because throughout his tenure within these United States he has always been at the mercy of some woman poised to change his tune from "God Bless America" to "God Save the Queen" so fast that his a$$ would be whizzing back to England over water before his shadow heard the rumor! Its no wonder he's always paranoid and freaks out all the time! LOL!

 

Hopefully your questions have been answered but the question that still begs is "How do I know for a fact that he doesn't love you"? (I dare ya to ask ... I double dare ya!)

 

Uhhh, that's kind of scary. I mean, people cheat all the time, that doesn't necessarily mean they ALL entered into their marriages fraudulently. Had no idea one could actually be deported because of it. He actually hasn't acquired citizenship yet, I think. I mean, he's been here long enough, just hasn't taken that test and done the oath thing yet. Or whatever it is they make you do.

 

And I perhaps shudder to ask, but let's see what you have to say: How do you know for a fact that he doesn't love me? Not that I ever said he does, just that one would hope that after four years and massive bouts of giving himself paranoia that it means he at the least cares a little bit about me. Like I said before, if he just needed extra sex, while not free, a prostitute would obviously be alot safer....anyway, have at it Pelican.

 

BTW, that "god bless america" to "god save the queen" bit made me giggle just a little, in an odd way. Chortle maybe? That sounds so unattractive. Let's stick with giggle.

[KismetGirl]

if he's used to not communicating much at home or in his daily life - then he is just taking that lack of skills to you as well. what's attractive about a man that doesn't know how to express himself with words? and what's attractive about the fact that he doesn't try to be better at it? THAT alone would be discouraging and frustrating enough for me.

 

he also may just have you as a backup plan in case he loses his green card due to divorce.

 

so - he may not actually care at all - just using you - for a number of reasons. you are the most likely suspect because you don't ask for or demand anything from him... soooooo easy for him.

 

Yes that's probably one of his most frustrating attributes....though he seems to get somewhat better with it over the years to be honest. The stuff he's told me in the last 6 months has been shocking, mostly because he actually said how he was feeling about some things. He's got a long way to go, I suppose, but baby steps. I think he has the ability to be more forthcoming if he's with someone that encourages him to speak what he's feeling, which I try to do sometimes. I'm not so sure his wife does....don't know for a fact, of course, but guessing one of their problems is lack of communication on both ends. That seems to be the death-call of most relationships, isnt it? No communication?

 

I think it might be far-fetched to think he's using me as a green-card back up....I don't think he entered into his marriage with the sole intent of staying here, I just think that situation caused him to rush into a marriage faster than he might have. He does love her, for all intensive purposes, it's not like she's just a baby=making, green-card vessel. I just think , ya know, that that love is geared more towards "love of mother of my child and a good friend" than love of a true romantic and life partner.

 

And adding to Pelican's post above, since I forgot to add it in my separate respond to him, I know his wife isn't stupid, and Im sure she never forgot about the hair incident or any following suspicions. I'm sure she genuinely loves him and would be devastated if she found out he was cheating on her, even if she's let some stuff slide. According to him, she hasn't said anything about it in a long time. On the outside they seem to be very happy. Well, I guess how people look in photos can be misleading, but MM seems to imply to me that in regards to family life and social life and friendship, they are pretty content. It's just the romantic relationship that's lacking, really. Which is obviously a big part of a marriage....so back in circles we go.

 

Have been so tired the last few days , even had to work this morning early early at the hospital which totally throws off my sleep schedule even worse than usual, so my brain feels a little fried right now. Am trying to think clearly about things but anxiety seems to have been really heightened lately and it's hard for me. I wake up in the morning and get very....I don't know...panicky, thinking about everything I have to deal with and I just don't want to think sometimes. Don't you wish you could just turn your brain off sometimes....get a vacation from yourself. Argh. *sigh* My friend tells me at dinner last night "everything happens for a reason". I wish I knew what the reason was for meeting him. At any rate, may not see him ths week anyway as he said he was in meetings all over the place all week, which is fine because I have tons to get done and maybe don't need the distraction, but perhaps will speak with him the week after that....try to let him know how hard this all has been for me, how it isn't fair anymore, how everyone involved deserves better. Don't know.

[Die Hard]

.

 

And I perhaps shudder to ask, but let's see what you have to say: How do you know for a fact that he doesn't love me?

Been following this thread and still can't believe the merry go round. People are wasting good posts on you, and frankly, you sound as if you are nuts based on the above question, considering your first post in this thread:

 

 

So he tells me that he hates that he can't be faithful for some reason, and that Im the only one its been since he's been married. He says everything about his marriage is great except for their sex life, that that's the only part that "sucks, or is missing entirely".

 

And I think I've said all this in prior posts before....that I know he's happy with his life and feels no need to change it, but I think I never asked because I don't want to hear it, and now I've heard it and I feel so horrid I literally feel like I wish I was suicidal, and regrettably Im not. So Im forced to just sit here and be effing miserable instead. I can't think, I don't want to think, I just feel like crying, and crying, and crying. I can't even describe how I feel right now, which is weird because I knew he wasn't going anywhere anyway, and I knew he wasn't unhappy at home, that they just don't really have that physical spark.

 

I'm not saying you ARE nuts, but you are posting that way. Someone mentioned Glenn Close and I can see the analogy. Again not saying you are a psycho but your posts read that way sometimes.

 

You go from crying in bed a few days ago based on the above and between that time you're trying to convince yourself this guy loves you again.

 

He does not love you. Men who love women do not act this way. He acts like he loves his wife, even if he disrespects her. If he can love her and do what he's doing to her, just imagine how he must TRULY feel about you and what he's capable of doing to you.

 

Just imagine.

[KismetGirl]

Kg, You seem to have no sense of self-worth at all. As a reformed cheater, I have to admire his ability to manipulate you. He has you trained so well that ANY word that falls from his mouth is to you like "the voice of heaven" He hugs you, and holds you and says all the things you need, to keep you in turmoil, and you lap it up and beg for more. He artfully uses lies, truths and half-truths, the way a dog trainer uses sharp words and treats to keep it in line. I wouldn't wish what's happening to you on a dog, which ( in spite of his sweet words and sex) is exactly what you are to him. You are his sweet, available, sexy toy. I'm so sorry

 

I think you're giving him more credit than he's due. No matter what I may seem, I probably do it to myself. He's totally incapable of wooing chicks. His charming self is more accidental than purposeful, trust me. I guess it works all the same, but I'm pretty sure he's not manipulating me. Not on purpose, anyway. Granted, he may be deluding himself by believing I'm actually OK with all this, but then, that's a bit my fault as well isn't it? I tell him , sure, whatever, I don't care if you don't love me, I just care about you like I'd care about any friend, whatever. I brush it off, try to keep things light. He may use what I say as an excuse, I guess, though he should probably know better by now that whatever a woman says is the opposite of what she means :-)

[KismetGirl]

Originally Posted by KismetGirl

.

 

And I perhaps shudder to ask, but let's see what you have to say: How do you know for a fact that he doesn't love me?

 

Been following this thread and still can't believe the merry go round. People are wasting good posts on you, and frankly, you sound as if you are nuts based on the above question, considering your first post in this thread:.

 

I asked that question because PelicanPreacher told me to ask him. It's tongue-in-cheek. Go read his post above, the last couple of lines. But glad to see you think I'm crazy. Isn't everyone in some ways?

 

They aren't wasting anything. And anyway, Im not the only person/OW that reads this stuff....perhaps they'll get something out of it too.

 

But yeah, I asked that question due to PP's post above. Sorry.

[2sunny]

i'm out! over it.

 

when nothing changes - nothing changes.

 

maybe you should have put a big warning sign on the title that said "i just want to whine and complain, but not do anything else about my bad situation."

 

second warning = please validate me while is sit in my own $hit disrespecting myself.

 

i'm out... good luck... you seemed like a bright gal that had potential to take action on this.

[KismetGirl]

i'm out! over it.

 

when nothing changes - nothing changes.

 

maybe you should have put a big warning sign on the title that said "i just want to whine and complain, but not do anything else about my bad situation."

 

second warning = please validate me while is sit in my own $hit disrespecting myself.

 

i'm out... good luck... you seemed like a bright gal that had potential to take action on this.

 

Huh? What did I do now? I just said I was going to try talking to him to tell him Im sick of all of this.....that's good, isnt it? Before I couldnt even fathom saying that to him for fear he'd run off, and now Im almost pushing myself to just tell him what I hate about the situation and tell him I cant do it anymore.

 

um, maybe Im misssing what I said here to warrant that last one 2sunny?

[Die Hard]

i'm out! over it.

 

when nothing changes - nothing changes.

 

maybe you should have put a big warning sign on the title that said "i just want to whine and complain, but not do anything else about my bad situation."

 

second warning = please validate me while is sit in my own $hit disrespecting myself.

 

i'm out... good luck... you seemed like a bright gal that had potential to take action on this.

I've been where she's at and know what she's doing. She can't be with this guy, and this forum and this thread are a fix for the addiction. People in her life(even if she wont admit it) are tired of hearing about this guy. Her family is tired. Her friends are tired. Nobody wants to hear it anymore so she(as did I) comes here and goes on and on and on with the same posts over and over and over. Well I never posted during mine but I read it all the time obsessively.

 

Hell I was only in mine a year and my family and friends were tired of hearing about my angst, it I can only imagine what her friends and family think.

 

Unless this thing ends against her will, she's screwed for life. She's not going to do it no-matter what people here post. Like I said, this thread is for feeding her addiction, not getting out of the affair and getting her life back.

 

Notice how she keeps writing novels for posts that say the same thing over and over? Addiction. Obsession.

[KismetGirl]

I've been where she's at and know what she's doing. She can't be with this guy, and this forum and this thread are a fix for the addiction. People in her life(even if she wont admit it) are tired of hearing about this guy. Her family is tired. Her friends are tired. Nobody wants to hear it anymore so she(as did I) comes here and goes on and on and on with the same posts over and over and over. Well I never posted during mine but I read it all the time obsessively.

 

Hell I was only in mine a year and my family and friends were tired of hearing about my angst, it I can only imagine what her friends and family think.

 

Unless this thing ends against her will, she's screwed for life. She's not going to do it no-matter what people here post. Like I said, this thread is for feeding her addiction, not getting out of the affair and getting her life back.

 

Notice how she keeps writing novels for posts that say the same thing over and over? Addiction. Obsession.

 

Again....read my last post please??? (#147)

[Die Hard]

Again....read my last post please??? (#147)

Yeah go have another talk Kismet. That will fix things.

 

He could flat out tell you he doesn't love you and you'll convince yourself he does. What's another talk going to do to help you? I know it will boost his ego yet again, but what's it going to do for you? I'll answer: nothing.

 

Not trying to be mean but I don't believe you when I read post #147.