Ormolu611 Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I am so torn right now. I met this fantastic woman almost a year and a half ago and have been dating her pretty much ever since. I am 35 and she is 32. I am almost two years out of a 10 year long relationship. I was not planning on getting into another relationship so soon, but it happened. What can I say? My girlfriend has made it pretty clear recently that she wants something substantial which would probably include marriage and maybe having a child or children together. Here's the thing. I absolutely love this girl, but there are some issues that are troubling me. I'm scared! First of all, she married when she was 19 year old, and that relationship lasted for about 4 years. She had a child at 21 with her ex husband - her now 11 year old daughter. She has been divorced for about 6 years or so and never speaks to her ex. Since that time she has dated numerous men and claims that I am the first "serious" relationship that she has had since her ex husband. Here is where my concerns start. Her daughter is 11, and is the most undisciplined little girl I have ever seen! Her room is atrocious meaning that it is more than messy. It is disgusting! When my girlfriend hired a carpet cleaning service because her daughter's room smelled like pee, dried up dog feces was found under her bed and under her throw rugs. She has trash (old food, candy wrappers, etc.) strewn about and the room is just a disaster. Her daughter is very dirty herself. She stinks frequently and I just found out a few weeks ago that she still pees her pants. When I asked how long this has gone on and if she has been brought to the doctor thinking it was a medical problem, my girlfriend told me that she "has always done this" and she does it because she is lazy and does not want to stop playing in order to go to the bathroom. So, she regularly "dribbles" in her underwear which is why her room smells like urine. How my girlfriend can tolerate this behavior is beyond me and cause for concern. Additionally, I do not like the way my girlfriend talks to her daughter. She regularly curses and swears not only in the presence of her daughter, but AT her. I would in no way want any child of mine to be spoken to that way - and she wants to have children with me? This is not all. Her daughter one day was imagining winning the lottery and was saying about how she would take care of her mom and such, and mentioned that she would give me money too, provided that I "was still around." This bothers the hell out of me. It makes me wonder how many of these guys that my girlfriend dated in the past six years actually had contact with her daughter. I spoke about this to a friend (who is a single dad) just last night, and he said that this is bad. He said that his 7 year old son never meets any of the women that he dates until it becomes clear that it is serious and comitted. He said he once dated a woman for 8 months and only barely exposed her to his son. My girlfriend has not been explicit, but seems to have had a lot of casual sexual relationships in that 6 year period. She joked once about her septic tank probably holding thousands of condoms, not realizing that this revelation caused my stomach to turn. Bottom line is that she had a lot of sex in the house that she lives in with her daughter. My experience is that kids are not stupid. My single dad friend met my girlfriend's daughter just once and said his reaction immediately was "oh boy!" She is like a wild child with no manners. He said he was struck about how immediately she was attached to him without even knowing who he was. "She already has father issues," he said, and he sees her being a prime case for teenage pregnancy. He says that this is probably only exacerbated by the fact that she may have been exposed to men coming and going over a 6 year period. He says to me, "Ask any psychiatrist, that is very damaging." Do I want to deal with this? Can I? Finally, my girlfriend revealed to me that she has had three unplanned pregnancies. The first two were with her husband resulting in one abortion and her daughter. She had a second abortion maybe a year and a half before meeting me. Strangley, she never mentioned who this third guy was but gave me enough information to pique my interest. Basically, she said that she would have had this guy's baby "if she had been able to get in touch with him." Cryptic huh? She said that he was dissappointed when he found out the she had an abortion and that if she had known how he felt, she would have had the baby. I asked one day about this guy's work experience as relation to the conversation that we were having and I referred to him as her ex boyfriend. She quickly corrected me and said that he was not her boyfriend at all, but a friend. A friend with benefits. She said that this "relationship" went on for about 5 years, and that sometimes a long time would pass between hookups as he lives 300 miles away. He most recently called her about a month after she met me, and she told him that she did not want to do that anymore. My heart sank. She was willing to have a baby with a "friend?" How could she have a baby casually? This to me, just diminishes the significance of having a child with someone and what that means - at least in my mind. Based on the math, there was some definite overlapping of her sexual partners, She was only divorced for 6 years, but she had a FWB relationship for 5 years, another FWB relationship with the younger kid who lived across the street at the time for 2 years, and then a host of other named boyfriends, all within a 6 year period. The thing is, I wonder how much of this constant coming and going of different men her daughter was exposed to. This saddens me. She was amazed that her friend who is also a single mom, went a year once without having sex. In summary, here is my problem. I am afraid for her daughter and feel that she is headed for trouble. I am disturbed by my girlfriends casual attitude about sex (makes me feel less special). I am disturbed about the notion that she would have a baby with a "friend" - to move forward with the most sacred endeavor with someone who she is in a casual relationship with. What is more I am disturbed that she would provide such an example to her daughter. I am conflicted about my love for my girlfriend - to leave would hurt me deeply and her too I feel - but are we truly compatible? Do we just have differnt values? I have always heard that it is best to find someone with a similar background. Ideas? Thoughts? Am I in over my head here?
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 Run Ormolu611... run as fast as you can. Yeah, I was afraid of that. I think that I know this on some level. Situation seems pretty bleak as I read over my own post. I think to myself, what the hell am I thinking or doing? These things that I have described are so far below my standards that it amazes me that I am still with her if I look at this objectively. I have gone through this relationship and have encountered these different things one at a time and have been aghast each time I encountered them. If I would have read my own post a couple of years ago, I would have probably said the same thing as you troubadour. What the hell happened to me in the meanwhile? I feel like I need to get out and meet people again.
Ronni_W Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Do we just have differnt values? No, you don't JUST have different values. YOU HAVE DIFFERENT VALUES. Seriously different values. And by sounds of it, seriously different life visions and goals, too. The daughter does sound as if she will benefit from medical and psychological consultations. That is NOT age-appropriate behaviour, nor signs of a child who is being taught adequate life skills to be able to grow into a happy, healthy, well-functioning, self-responsible, self-reliant, successful adult. Well, honestly. Your g/f doesn't sound like such an adult...sounds as if SHE could be well-served by getting herself some professional care and guidance. None of it is, of course, on the daughter. It is that she does not appear to have had any healthy adult role models, nor someone who has cared enough to parent her properly. So. What to do? I would suggest to really explore your own desire and willingness to stay in this relationship, which does not appear to be taking you down any path you wish to travel. What is the relationship preventing you from REALLY doing? That is, are you "using" it so that you don't have to face your fears of...whatever your fears may be. Being "alone"? Pursuing a BIG dream? Getting fit and healthy? Facing your "inner demons"? Traveling the globe? Becoming a "beach bum"? What are the subconscious benefits and rewards that you're receiving from staying in the relationship? And. How is the relationship inspiring, encouraging and supporting you to achieve your own Life Purpose, dreams and desires?
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 No, you don't JUST have different values. YOU HAVE DIFFERENT VALUES. Seriously different values. And by sounds of it, seriously different life visions and goals, too. The daughter does sound as if she will benefit from medical and psychological consultations. That is NOT age-appropriate behaviour, nor signs of a child who is being taught adequate life skills to be able to grow into a happy, healthy, well-functioning, self-responsible, self-reliant, successful adult. Well, honestly. Your g/f doesn't sound like such an adult...sounds as if SHE could be well-served by getting herself some professional care and guidance. Ouch! You are probably right. You make a very good point Ronni when you say that I may be using this relationship somehow, even though I don't like to admit that. What am I afraid of? If I had known all these things about her from the beginning it would have been a deal breaker - any one of these issues probably. Perhaps I have dependency issues? maybe I need to go to counseling myself. It is ridiculous for me to feel afraid to lose her when I know that a future is hard to even visualize for me. What the hell would a future with her look like? I can't say . . . can't even see it. It is not fair to her for me to stay in I think.
Mr. Lucky Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I Additionally, I do not like the way my girlfriend talks to her daughter. She regularly curses and swears not only in the presence of her daughter, but AT her. I would in no way want any child of mine to be spoken to that way - and she wants to have children with me? I'm going to assume that you're still in the "honeymoon" phase of the relationship because I've never seen someone treat their children abusively and everyone else with respect and consideration. At the very least, you're getting a preview of your own interactions down the road. Add me to the growing chorus of voices that says "No!" Mr. Lucky
Ronni_W Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 What the hell would a future with her look like? I can't say . . . can't even see it. I'm going to give you more credit that you're giving yourself: OF COURSE you know what a future with her will look like! (Possibly, though, you're just too afraid to look hard enough to put words and images to it?) If these things (or even any ONE of them) would have been deal-breakers for you at some point in your past, then it kind of is pointing to the fact that you are no longer living your life from your own belief system, values, integrity, etc. (OUCH! again? Sorry .) Likely your subconscious has given you a clue, just there. Why not use it as a starting point, and Google 'dependency issues' or 'codependency'? After your initial research, yes, you may feel that you'd like to explore things further with an individual therapist. Again, that's from your subconscious...which is usually pretty accurate, I have found for myself. Best of luck.
Ronni_W Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 It is not fair to her for me to stay in I think. That's a crock so you won't feel guilty when you dump her. (I know, I know...OUCH! Right? .) It's not fair TO YOU, to stay with her. Pretending to martyr yourself isn't going to help anyone or anything. Make your decisions based on your own values and goals. Period. There's no need to feel guilty or ashamed, or try to con yourself that ending the relationship will be more for her than for you. There's absolutely nothing wrong with ensuring one's own mental, emotional, physical, financial and spiritual well-being. Nothing wrong with that, and everything wise with it.
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 That's a crock so you won't feel guilty when you dump her. (I know, I know...OUCH! Right? .) It's not fair TO YOU, to stay with her. Pretending to martyr yourself isn't going to help anyone or anything. Yes, again, you are probably right here. Ouch is right, but I need to hear it I guess. Wow, just since last night after talking with my friend and after hearing input from you guys, it has become clearer that this is not meant to be. Your right in that I do feel guilty. I feel guilt already just because I am thinking about ending this. You are right Ronni in that I do not wish to go where this thing is taking me, and that is what I need to remember. I am getting older. I would like to get married and have children someday. And Mr. Lucky, I agree that the way she treats her daughter is probably what is in store for me. She has already had a couple of little tiffs recently with me in which I did not like her tone. I am always respectful to her. It's funny, but she asked me about how I felt about the relationship maybe 6 weeks ago or so. I told her that I was still feeling it out and getting to know her, and that i was not ready to committ to anything just yet. I actually used the example that we had not even had a real argument yet as an example. How can I really know you if we have never even argued about anything? Anyway, since I have had a couple of arguments with her, I see that she clams up and does not want to talk about when she gets frustrated. She actually abruptly left my house one night because she was frustrated. It is very dismissive of me and I have told her this. Just more signs of incompatibility. My worry has been growing for the past few months.
Geishawhelk Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Thank the good Lord harry that you don't actually even live together! I'm afraid I'm going to add my voice to the ever-louder chorus, (you know - the one at Dawn, when you start seeing things in a new light.....? ) and urge you very earnestly to GET OUT NOW. Tweet tweet.
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Posted February 6, 2009 Thank the good Lord harry that you don't actually even live together! I'm afraid I'm going to add my voice to the ever-louder chorus, (you know - the one at Dawn, when you start seeing things in a new light.....? ) and urge you very earnestly to GET OUT NOW. Tweet tweet. Yeah. I have been thinking about this some more. I think that one of the reasons that I am scared is because our backgrounds are very different. I spent most of my 20's in a single, comitted relationship in which I was 100% faithful and loyal. Overall, I have not had many sexual partners - probably less than average because my 20's were spent with one woman practically. My current girlfriend spent the last 6 years in several what she describes as casual relationships. Now, I have had a couple of casual sexual encounters in my life, but never more than two individual occurences with any one woman - so there was no chance to develop any emotional hang ups for me or for the other woman I presume. She has had ongoing, multiple year friends with benefits arrangements during that time. This makes me feel threatened to know that she is capable of doing that when I am sitting here completely whipped by her. I feel as though the scales are tipped and I feel very vulnerable emotionally because I think that maybe our relationship is not as rare or special to her as it is to me because of our different experiences. I mean, she can even have a kid with someone who is just a "friend." That is both intimidating and disheartening to me. Okay, so what does all of this mean? Well, here's the deal. I, like the stereotype that we all hear so much about women, get really attached to someone after being in a sexual relationship with them for a while. I think a lot of guys do. I am not a dude that can be physically intimate with a woman for a year and then just put her out of my mind when the next woman comes along. I know that about myself. The physical intimacy is powerful and very meaningful to me, and when I am with her, I am completely blissful and feel very close to her emotionally. This is what sounds crazy - despite all of the ridiculous crap that I have presented here about her, when I am with her in an intimate setting such as watching a movie on the couch together, taking a road trip together, laying in bed talking to each other, etc. I just love her company! She makes me laugh, she is whip smart, and after parting with her even if just for the day, I look forward to seeing her again and think about her often. This is why I really think I am headed for trouble here, one way or another. I feel vulnerable and exposed. I feel that I am headed for heartbreak and I am so scared to have to go through that again. I feel stupid for getting myself in so deep emotionally with what appears to be the wrong woman. How could I have done this? I really have to be so much more careful in the future. I spent too much time with her early on I guess and have grown quite attached to her. On one level, I agree with everything everyone says here. As Troubador said earlier, "run as fast as you can!" I want to sometimes. This relationship is not sustainable long term because of the reasons cited earlier. I understand that. On some level anyway. My emotions, however, are powerful - and when I spend one on one time with her, I find her utterly intoxicating. I can't turn it off. Sound pathological? I'm in deep sh*t huh?
Geishawhelk Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 You're actually addicted to the feeling of feeling. you love to be loved. That's what you want. Know how I know? Because we all want that, silly! Only - some of us get it. And some, sadly don't. You don't get it. Big time. You're in this partly because of a sense of duty, and because you're maybe hoping that, given time, all this will gradually change, fade away, be less important.... Nu-huh. You need to crowbar yourself out of this sense of stuck-ed-ness (my grammar sooooo sucks, this morning!) and shift yourself away from this. The good does not weigh up, and counterbalance the bad. Not by a very long chalk..... Is that what you want? To put up with it, as opposed to being happy with it?
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Posted February 6, 2009 You're actually addicted to the feeling of feeling. you love to be loved. That's what you want. Know how I know? Because we all want that, silly! Only - some of us get it. And some, sadly don't. You don't get it. Big time. Heavy sigh..............thanks for your input Geishawhelk. I hear you.
Treasa Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Run Ormolu611... run as fast as you can. Holy crap! Ditto, ditto, ditto.
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Posted February 6, 2009 Holy crap! Ditto, ditto, ditto. Yeah, it IS kind of messed up huh? Wow, it helps to have these outside opinions. I can rest assured that it is not just me then thinking that these things that I have described are really kind of jacked up. I need to return to earth I think...somehow.
Geishawhelk Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 The big problem is that you get so deep into sh*1*t that you actually start to believe it smells like roses. You become accustomed to the mess, the crap, the apathy, the whole deal, that after a while you're prepared to settle...... Well you have to ask yourself if you think you could ever do better, and I hate to say it, but I think we both know what the answer is. You have to look at it long-term. And if you want to be living in a house where everyone seems to give a damn about hygiene, cleanliness and attitude, then you stay right where you are. in my book, enough is enough. Move whatever stuff in the house is yours, back to your place, and tell her you're going.
Treasa Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Maybe you should try living with her and her daughter for a week or two. I bet that'll remove any last doubts you have. You sound like a great guy, so I'm wondering what his woman offers that's so amazing.
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Posted February 6, 2009 Maybe you should try living with her and her daughter for a week or two. I bet that'll remove any last doubts you have. You sound like a great guy, so I'm wondering what his woman offers that's so amazing. Thanks Treasa for helping to put things in perspective. That's the funny thing - I have thought to myself that there is no way in hell that I could ever live in a situation the likes of which exist at my gf's house right now. I simply couldn't. That is what I meant when I said earlier that I could not even visualize combining lives in that way. I love my own quiet (and serene by comparison) house!
Mr. Lucky Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Maybe you should try living with her and her daughter for a week or two. I bet that'll remove any last doubts you have. Great idea! Although I doubt that it would take two weeks ... Mr. Lucky
Ramrod Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Sorry, I stopped reading at the "My daughter has always peed her pants part". Runaway. FAST!!!
Alma Mobley Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 Oh my. When I read the title, I thought it was going to be one of those routine "cold feet" issues. Ormulus, you know this already, and I think this is why you are posting -- you want others to confirm it -- but I will say it anyway: DO NOT MARRY THIS WOMAN. She has had a revolving door of men in her life, with no regard to her daughter. She blames her daughter for her wetting her pants at eleven years old and said she was "lazy." There were dog feces under her bed and her rugs in her daughter's room. This is not on the daughter -- this is all on the mother. From your description, it sounds as though she tried to live the single life while ignoring the fact that she even had a daughter. The people who are single parents you have talked to are right -- your gf has let her child run wild, never potty-trained her, and does not even clean up her room. Do not even entertain the notion of having a child with this woman -- she is a terrible parent, and I feel very sorry for her daughter. All the other stuff is bad too, and others have addressed it -- but if you are looking at marriage and children -- I think you have your answer. Also, when you break it off with this woman -- and you better! -- tell her exactly why and refer her to counseling and recommend her daughter see someone as well -- her "daddy issues" are apparent as well as the bladder problem. Normal people do not live like that. Tell her that. I know you are in her "thrall" while together, but you need to look at this situation objectively. Best of luck.
Author Ormolu611 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Posted February 7, 2009 Oh my. When I read the title, I thought it was going to be one of those routine "cold feet" issues. Ormulus, you know this already, and I think this is why you are posting -- you want others to confirm it -- but I will say it anyway: DO NOT MARRY THIS WOMAN. She has had a revolving door of men in her life, with no regard to her daughter. She blames her daughter for her wetting her pants at eleven years old and said she was "lazy." There were dog feces under her bed and her rugs in her daughter's room. This is not on the daughter -- this is all on the mother. From your description, it sounds as though she tried to live the single life while ignoring the fact that she even had a daughter. The people who are single parents you have talked to are right -- your gf has let her child run wild, never potty-trained her, and does not even clean up her room. Do not even entertain the notion of having a child with this woman -- she is a terrible parent, and I feel very sorry for her daughter. All the other stuff is bad too, and others have addressed it -- but if you are looking at marriage and children -- I think you have your answer. Also, when you break it off with this woman -- and you better! -- tell her exactly why and refer her to counseling and recommend her daughter see someone as well -- her "daddy issues" are apparent as well as the bladder problem. Normal people do not live like that. Tell her that. I know you are in her "thrall" while together, but you need to look at this situation objectively. Best of luck. Thank you so much Alma. Everything that you have said here is dead on and as I read it, your words really rang clearly to me. Thank you. I have been thinking about this some more since yesterday and was wondering how I would even proceed with a break up, so I am glad that you mentioned this. I was curious as to whether I should be very specific as you recommended or should I be more vague and say something to the effect that "we have different values" and leave it at that. Likely, if I told her something general like this, she would want a further explanation. I feel like telling her this stuff so badly sometimes, that the way things are right now are totally jacked up and that she needs to make changes for her own benefit and especially for her daughters sake. Sometimes I feel like it is my duty to do so. How the hell do you do that tactfully though? Tough love? The truth is that I do care for her and want her to do better for herself. I have convinced her to take her dreams seriously and to go ahead and to pursue a college degree in order to obtain some of her goals.
Mr. Lucky Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 she needs to make changes for her own benefit and especially for her daughters sake. Sometimes I feel like it is my duty to do so. I don't think that you need to give her this input and I doubt that she'd listen to it anyway. Any discussion you have with her should focus on why the relationship doesn't have a future for you... Mr. Lucky
confuseddd Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 You can't be her saviour....that is the picture you are painting.... NO NO NO NO!!!!! She needs help....counseling, etc... And painful to hear, so do you....you should have run a long time ago. You started your post out with I met this wonderful woman but, she didn't sound so wonderful the more that I read. Re-read what you wrote, see how you start off positive and end negative....the answer is right in front of you.... Good luck and keep us posted.
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