calazhage Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Good guys are just too boring, but my brain tells me I should go for them instead. My body says otherwise lol The above is a quote from another thread. Do women whom say things like this have intimacy issues? Does it even make sense? Or is this how most women think? I feel almost universally, all men are pretty much the same. I do not see how they can be divided up into good/nice/bad/ etc. As an example, many women have thought I was a jerk, player, bad boy etc. Well, I was simply not into them that much. So in their opinion, I was not "good", "nice", or "boring". This did work very well with a certain type of woman, although I really did not care if it worked at all. When I date women I am into, they thought I was "nice", and "good". No longer would I just call for sex, or forget their birthday, or disappear for 2 weeks, or not care what they think at all, etc. I would answer my phone, ask them out ahead, be there for them, treat them with respect, etc. So when women are seeking the "bad boy", are they just seeking someone whom is not really into them? For lack of a better term, someone "out of their league?" Sort of a game they want to play? Do they have some subconscious desire to be hurt, left, or used? Because as I illustrated the SAME EXACT man usually is both, good AND bad, as it just depends on his level of interest. Is the way for men to keep a woman to settle for one below your standards, or what you really want? It seems women LOVE trying to catch the "jerk", and transform him, but the problem is a man is only a "jerk" with women he is not that into. Love is a powerful emotion, and it is almost impossible for a man to be a jerk/bad/unavailable with a woman he falls for, for any man.
FleshNBones Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Maybe they just want what they can't have. Maybe they want something to last that can't really last. Maybe they want the guy mom and dad don't like. Maybe it is the thrill of beating the odds. Try "10 Stupid Things Women do to Mess Up Their Lives" by Laura Schlessinger. You will lose a lot of respect for these women, and that is a good thing. This stuff might fall into the categories of stupid courtship, stupid devotion, and stupid passion.
lino Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 my definition of a 'bad boy' is someone who is actually bad... eg someone who is a violent criminal, drug dealer, woman basher, rapist, etc My definition of a 'nice guy' is someone who doesn't do any of those things and on top of it appreciates the woman he's with. I rarely see any of the former without a woman but know of plenty of the latter who are always single. ps players aren't 'bad boys' IMO. They aren't commiting any crimes, simply fooling women.
AlektraClementine Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Or we could flip the coin here. Many men who exclusively pursue a certain type of woman (usually the only criteria is looks), later post here about how all women are B*tches after they get rejected. They believe they are entitled to reciprocity of feelings. They self identify as the "nice guy" who always gets rejected and in turn accuse women of only wanting bad boys. Your logic applies in this scenario as well. It's not a gender thing.
Author calazhage Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 my definition of a 'bad boy' is someone who is actually bad... eg someone who is a violent criminal, drug dealer, woman basher, rapist, etc My definition of a 'nice guy' is someone who doesn't do any of those things and on top of it appreciates the woman he's with. I rarely see any of the former without a woman but know of plenty of the latter who are always single. Another observation... For some reason, men whom are serial killers (even if women are their target), receive hundreds and thousands of love letters. Now of course I am not saying all women like serial killers. But there are enough that make this noticeable. I.E. Ted Bundy, the Night Stalker.. I do not think women whom kill men receive love letters. And anytime you hear a woman speaking about how she loves her boyfriend, USUALLY, it is in the context of "I know he cheated, and treats me bad but I LOVE him." It is not "My boyfriend calls me everyday and is always trying to make me happy!Wow, I love him!" Alktra, lol.. i never heard men say "My girlfriend is too nice, I wish she were bad, and bitchier! I love the bad girls!"
AlektraClementine Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Another observation... For some reason, men whom are serial killers (even if women are their target), receive hundreds and thousands of love letters. Now of course I am not saying all women like serial killers. But there are enough that make this noticeable. I.E. Ted Bundy, the Night Stalker.. I do not think women whom kill men receive love letters. And anytime you hear a woman speaking about how she loves her boyfriend, USUALLY, it is in the context of "I know he cheated, and treats me bad but I LOVE him." It is not "My boyfriend calls me everyday and is always trying to make me happy!Wow, I love him!" Alktra, lol.. i never heard men say "My girlfriend is too nice, I wish she were bad, and bitchier! I love the bad girls!" You are speaking in a lot of absolutes. Gotta be careful about that. "Anytime you hear a woman speaking about her boyfriend..."???? What kind of women do you know? I personally love my boyfriend because he's the BEES KNEES! He treats me good. With respect and love and kindness. You should check out a book called "Why Men Marry Bitches". It's certain men and women you are talking about who go after these types.
loveman7 Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 i think i am the perfect guy..handsome sexy and a mixture between "mr. niceguy" and a bad boy. normally that is what my girlfirend always tells me. i think a woman needs both types from time to time. it depends on the situation and what type of character you are???? one example is sex: are the cutie sweetie girl who wants to have the romantic sensitive guy or the bloody one who likes it dirty and fast!!!! OR ARE YOU BOTH?????
AlektraClementine Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 i think i am the perfect guy..handsome sexy and a mixture between "mr. niceguy" and a bad boy. normally that is what my girlfirend always tells me. i think a woman needs both types from time to time. it depends on the situation and what type of character you are???? one example is sex: are the cutie sweetie girl who wants to have the romantic sensitive guy or the bloody one who likes it dirty and fast!!!! OR ARE YOU BOTH????? Good point. I love for a guy to have a strong handle on his masculinity. I don't wan't him to be a bastard cheater. But strong and confident is super sexy.
movingonandon Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Nice thread, but this has been beaten to death. But it is important to emphasize that these stupid stereotypes are so exagerrated that rarely, if ever, exist in reality. I totally agree - most men are basically the same. Sure there are proverbial doormat nice guys, and unreliable but exciting bad boys, but these extremes probably rule out 80% of the male population. The core of the issue is that more than anything, girls want somebody to fire up their emotions and turn them into purring panthers, no matter how irrational this could be. It is just an unfortunate empirical correlation that it is more likely that guys who trigger this reaction are deficient in many other aspects. But it does not have to be that way, and I see it all around me. I and my friends are all "good on paper", but that certainly hasn't turned us into 'nice bores' - we have traits and interests that are found intriguing, if not exciting by most people, and none of us has been mistreated or disrespected by a woman for "being nice". So the whole nice guy/bad boy thing could indeed be a symptom of psychological issues more than anything else - some women just seek punishment :). But most guys are a happy medium. Were Cary Grant and HUmphrey bogart gentlemen? Sure. Were they bad boys? Of course - all in the same movie. Point made. More to the point of dating - the "bad boy stereotype" is the clearest evidence that guys should completely, permanently, ignore whatever women *say* they want in men, and focus on being what women *actually* want . Having a job and being nice certaily wouldn't hurt that, but it is pretty much irrelevant for attraction.
dreamergrl Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 And anytime you hear a woman speaking about how she loves her boyfriend, USUALLY, it is in the context of "I know he cheated, and treats me bad but I LOVE him." It is not "My boyfriend calls me everyday and is always trying to make me happy!Wow, I love him!" I have never stayed with a man who cheated, however, it is possible to work past cheating in some relationships. I do brag about a boyfriend who calls, is sweet, and caring. I will however by-pass the doormats. I don't want a man who is so easy going he doesn't request anything for himself. I like balance.
AlektraClementine Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 OOOOH - you left out Gregory Peck and Robert Mitchem:love:
fishtaco Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Good guys are just too boring, but my brain tells me I should go for them instead. My body says otherwise lol The above is a quote from another thread. Do women whom say things like this have intimacy issues? Does it even make sense? Or is this how most women think? Yes, but you are looking at the wrong part of the quote. You focused on "good guys", when you should be focusing on "too boring". Women don't care if you are nice guy, good guy, bad boy, whatever "terms" that people that discuss relationships too often have come up with. Seems like everyone has a different definition anyway. What they care about is "don't be boring". If you've got that part down, doesn't matter what you are, good, decent, nice, bad, bastard, alpha, beta, tall, short, unemployed loser, whatever, women will date you. Sure, some chick will say I don't date anyone that's unemployed and living off of me. Well, even Brad Pitt can't post 100% success ratio. I bet she's got friends that WILL date and support an unemployed slacker, provided he's exciting to be with. So don't worry about being good or bad. That's completely irrelevant. Being able to appeal to women is a skill on it's own, not tied to anything else. Although there are certain attributes that help, such as being tall and wealthy. But they're optional. They can make the game easier to play, but short and poor guys with lots of game get women anyway. Keeping a long lasting relationship however, that's a different beast, and have a completely different set of rules.
pr-girl Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 I hate when women say they don't like "nice" guys. It sends the wrong message. Women indeed LOVE nice guys. They just don't like "needy, clingy, always available, willing to compromise integrity, no guts or resolve" kind of guys. You know the kind: always agreeable, they don't have a mind of their own, too sensitive, very emotional. It's comments like this that make men become jerks - even nice men. Women need to stop giving these guys the wrong idea and let it known that we love the nice ones. We want to be treated with respect. The women that don't, men shouldn't want anyway.
lino Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Or we could flip the coin here. Many men who exclusively pursue a certain type of woman (usually the only criteria is looks), later post here about how all women are B*tches after they get rejected. They believe they are entitled to reciprocity of feelings. They self identify as the "nice guy" who always gets rejected and in turn accuse women of only wanting bad boys. Your logic applies in this scenario as well. It's not a gender thing. Not really the same thing. Yes ofcourse there are guys who go for women who are bitchy and/or full of attitude just as there are girls who go for complete f*ckwits but those people aren't actually 'bad girls' or 'bad boys' IMO... they haven't commited any crimes or harmed another person. I've never even heard of any men wanting to be with women who are violent criminals, drug dealers or man bashers (imagine that? ) yet I know of many men who do those things all the time and are constantly surrounded by girls!! When I see the reverse happening then I'll believe It's not a gender thing I hate when women say they don't like "nice" guys. It sends the wrong message. Women indeed LOVE nice guys. They just don't like "needy, clingy, always available, willing to compromise integrity, no guts or resolve" kind of guys. You know the kind: always agreeable, they don't have a mind of their own, too sensitive, very emotional. It's comments like this that make men become jerks - even nice men. Women need to stop giving these guys the wrong idea and let it known that we love the nice ones. We want to be treated with respect. The women that don't, men shouldn't want anyway. They shouldn't say anything... women should show men they want to be around nice guys. How to do this? Stop getting with guys who are criminals! When I see guys like that go their whole life with out a partner THEN I'll believe what women say
Woggle Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Criminals never have a problem getting a woman especially if he is a drug dealer or some other crime for profit. In many cases they even get women to help with their crimes.
Joyvke Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 I think my first boyfriend was a nice guy, but he turned into a jackass *abusive*, I dumped him. My second boyfriend was a nice guy, but turned into someone who give his best female friend a happy time, because I wanted to wait, I dumped him. My last boyfriend was a nice guy, still is, but he has issues with himself, he dumped me :'). The guy I have a crush on is a nice guy, but sometimes it makes me wonder if he actually is and he's falling for a woman that's classified as bitch and whines how much he gets hurt by females all the time, whereas I was jumping about wanting to show him it can be different :<. Personally if I know when someone is a bad guy I won't fall for them, I'm thank god wise enough to walk away from those. As with my ex boyfriends, when they changed I walked away too, first one was 1,5 yrs and the second luckily only a few months, but still. A friend of mine writes letters with people in American prisons... I told her she was nuts as she's writing with a guy that's been sentenced for murder... "They are often falsely accused you know, I know since that happened with my little brother too".. Her brother robbed an elderly woman and has been seen by about 10 people.. yeah right, falsely accused?
xrhannyx Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Tht post makes so much sense! =] I was thinkin about the boyfriends i have had and my attitudes towards them n i must admitt the one i wud class as a bad boy was the one i thought was out of my leauge that was very raw and forward aobout wht he wanted...i kept tellin myself at the time tht he couldnt do wht we did if he didnt like me but hey guess what he wasnt tht in to me!!!! I think it is purely the way woman look at a man....if u know someone deeply they may seem a nice lad to you but to sum1 who hardly knows them he could be seen as a player or as a "bad boy" haha! Great post!!! xxx
loveman7 Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 hey girls, don't think that much about that "nice guy" vs. "bad boy" stereotypes. if u find a guy u like and who likes u, it doesn't matter anymore in which group he belongs. by the way, men and their behaviour in a relationship can change. we aren't stupid monkeys who cannot learn from mistakes. in a relationship, a "nice guy" can turn into a "bad boy" and the other way around. it's up to you!!!! make the guy perfectly clear what u want..if he really likes u, u'll be surprised how damm goog we are!!!!
stillafool Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Good guys are just too boring, but my brain tells me I should go for them instead. My body says otherwise lol The above is a quote from another thread. Do women whom say things like this have intimacy issues? Does it even make sense? Or is this how most women think? I feel almost universally, all men are pretty much the same. I do not see how they can be divided up into good/nice/bad/ etc. As an example, many women have thought I was a jerk, player, bad boy etc. Well, I was simply not into them that much. So in their opinion, I was not "good", "nice", or "boring". This did work very well with a certain type of woman, although I really did not care if it worked at all. When I date women I am into, they thought I was "nice", and "good". No longer would I just call for sex, or forget their birthday, or disappear for 2 weeks, or not care what they think at all, etc. I would answer my phone, ask them out ahead, be there for them, treat them with respect, etc. So when women are seeking the "bad boy", are they just seeking someone whom is not really into them? For lack of a better term, someone "out of their league?" Sort of a game they want to play? Do they have some subconscious desire to be hurt, left, or used? Because as I illustrated the SAME EXACT man usually is both, good AND bad, as it just depends on his level of interest. Is the way for men to keep a woman to settle for one below your standards, or what you really want? It seems women LOVE trying to catch the "jerk", and transform him, but the problem is a man is only a "jerk" with women he is not that into. Love is a powerful emotion, and it is almost impossible for a man to be a jerk/bad/unavailable with a woman he falls for, for any man. I agree that the "level of interest" in a person can make you appear as a "bad guy" or a "bad girl". When a person falls in love naturally you are going to be more available to that person than one you are just "lukewarm" for. I don't agree that a man's only criteria for a woman is "good looks". That's not what I've been reading. They want educated, good looking women with good jobs.
blondesmiler Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 There is a big difference between being a nice decent guy and being a boring guy. Just because you open doors, text or call when you say you are going to, are in regular contact (not severed), will help out, touch you gently, listen etc etc which I think are signs of a decent guy ~ doesn't mean your boring. IMO being boring would be if you had no life, had never been anywhere or done anything, had no conversation skills, or people skills, always when asked to what would you like to do respond what do you want to do. Have a backbone and be a man, just have manners about it and this then differenciates between a decent man and a boring wimp.
Author calazhage Posted February 6, 2009 Author Posted February 6, 2009 I agree that the "level of interest" in a person can make you appear as a "bad guy" or a "bad girl". When a person falls in love naturally you are going to be more available to that person than one you are just "lukewarm" for. Exactly. Example of a guy that works for me.. He was in a LTR with one girl. He constantly blew her off. Hung up on her. Went out with buddies instead of her to meet different women..She calls crying while he is at work..He seems like a "jerk, bad boy" He has tats, drinks, is in a band, beds women and never calls them back etc. Now all of a sudden he met a new girl. He cannot stop talking about her. He is 100% completely available to this new woman. He is ecstatic if she even returns his calls. He is asking me all day what every word she says might mean. He asks her out WAY too often. Without ever meeting her, I smelled doom, and for the past 2 weeks she has excuse after excuse. Once you meet a woman you REALLY like it is difficult to be the "bad boy", or the "aloof" guy. Or turn down dates, or say you are going out with your buddies. Unfortunately it seems men MUST play this game to appear to be valuable. If they do not, the woman's interest level plummets.
movingonandon Posted February 6, 2009 Posted February 6, 2009 Once you meet a woman you REALLY like it is difficult to be the "bad boy", or the "aloof" guy. Or turn down dates, or say you are going out with your buddies. Unfortunately it seems men MUST play this game to appear to be valuable. If they do not, the woman's interest level plummets. So, what did we learn? If you want a happy relationship that lasts, *never* fall in love with a woman! Find a reasonably attractive mother for your kids, treat her well (but not TOO well), and then focus on other things such as career, money, mistress, etc. :).
Author calazhage Posted February 6, 2009 Author Posted February 6, 2009 So, what did we learn? If you want a happy relationship that lasts, *never* fall in love with a woman! Find a reasonably attractive mother for your kids, treat her well (but not TOO well), and then focus on other things such as career, money, mistress, etc. :). LOL, Yes, I think that sums it up..As soon as you are overly interested, it is very hard to control or stop from showing it, and the woman jets. Need to find one you are into, but not that into.
stillafool Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 LOL, Yes, I think that sums it up..As soon as you are overly interested, it is very hard to control or stop from showing it, and the woman jets. Need to find one you are into, but not that into. See the thing is women can use the same argument about men. So, wouldn't it be wiser for each to find someone with the same 'level of interest' they have so it will morph into love and then marry. Doesn't that sound like a better plan?
loveman7 Posted February 9, 2009 Posted February 9, 2009 i absolutely agree with you..if you're having the same ideas, interests,....it doesn't matter what type of guy you are. if the magic between two people fits then forget the rest....just relax and enjoy your time togehter.
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