jj33 Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 FYI for those of you who wonder what the MM thinks. Was with a friend today who is about one year out of an A. He was crazy about the OW but it ended for various reasons (he was taking too long to leave etc etc and it got v ugly long story not for a public forum ). This is what he told me: 1. The feelings dont go away. They stay and stay and stay. He is still in love with her even tho they will never be together. He still winces inside when her name is mentioned, but outside he is cool as a cucumber. 2. Being in the A was really painful perhaps the most painful experience of his life. He knew he was hurting W children and OW and not making anyone happy, as happy as he was with OW most of the time. 3. He doesnt respond when OW contacts him because their relationship cant be repaired but he fears his relationship with W cant either. And fully expects to separate in the coming months. Just thought this may be of some perverse comfort to those wondering if their xMM thinks of them when all evidence says he is happy and fine and could care less. That is most often not the case according to this guy who has MM friends as well.
TOWinNYC Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 JJ33- I didn't need to read this post to know everything you stated. But it was very much appreciated - sort of a validation of everything I already know, I guess. When feelings are as strong and the connections are as deep as some relationships are (whether they are As or not) it can take a lifetime to get over them. Somehow I feel like this post in going to get blasted by BS or those who are embittered (rightfully so) by WSs. But sometimes there is an unexplainable, indescrible "something" that can't be ignored and unfortunately the situation or timing is horribly wrong.
bentnotbroken Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Why would it be blasted by BS? That is his friends reality.
Lizzie60 Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I agree that MMs 'daydream' about the OW all the time.. especially when it has to end, and it's out of his control... It is very hard when you choose your kids over the OW.. because, IMO, that's the real choice the MM has to make.. if there were no kids.... there would be no hard decision.. it would be sooo easy. Some MM do fall in love with their OW... not all but a large percentage I would think... Even, in my case, when they do not fall in love, they still say they think about our sex a lot.. and when they have sex with their W.. they close their eyes and think about me.. and I know they do..
Author jj33 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 And I thought of Owl when he said he beleives it is total NC that saved him. Nothing will allow him to deviate and contact her or respond to her contact.
anne1707 Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 And I thought of Owl when he said he beleives it is total NC that saved him. Nothing will allow him to deviate and contact her or respond to her contact. Sorry just to correct but I think it was Owl's wife who strayed, not him. But yes NC was the answer.
Author jj33 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 I agree with you Lizzie that many MM do fall in love - against their better judgement! In this one case, he didnt choose the children over the OW, she got fed up.
Author jj33 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 Thanks Anne. What my friend said was that total NC saved him from being in even more pain than he is now. It made me think of Owl because he always says NC needs to be total.
TOWinNYC Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Actually, with all things being equal (both MM & OW equally emotionally invested in the A, sexually compatible and yearning for each other, "in love" etc.) I think sometimes it's easier for the OW to recover from an A situation. Because women are allowed to show their emotions, cry over a loss, vent to her friends, move on with her life and explore possibilities that exist in the future. But men, especially MM, HAVE to keep it all inside, pretend everything is okay, life is fine and nothing is wrong. They have to maintain a facade (especially to their W). Sometimes it seems like it works to their advantage (fake it till you make it theory). But I know that when the grief hits them, it'll be a tsunami instead of a splash. Of course, this is all dependent on how "In Love" the MM was to begin with. But the ones I know, the wave has been pretty big.
Author jj33 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 Agreed TOW, and of course there is the fact that in many cases for a variety of reasons the MM stays in an unhappy marriage that doesnt improve. The OW has the possibility of a happier future in front of her. Ideally youd like to believe that if the MM stays married that he and W find a happier future together too. But that doesnt always seem to be the case.
Reggie Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I agree that MMs 'daydream' about the OW all the time.. especially when it has to end, and it's out of his control... It is very hard when you choose your kids over the OW.. because, IMO, that's the real choice the MM has to make.. if there were no kids.... there would be no hard decision.. it would be sooo easy. Some MM do fall in love with their OW... not all but a large percentage I would think... Even, in my case, when they do not fall in love, they still say they think about our sex a lot.. and when they have sex with their W.. they close their eyes and think about me.. and I know they do.. Me, too, Lizzie. In fact , I beleive most women are fantasizing about me almost all the time. It's a blessing and a curse, eh?:bunny:
anne1707 Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Me, too, Lizzie. In fact , I beleive most women are fantasizing about me almost all the time. It's a blessing and a curse, eh?:bunny: Ooh Reggie!!!! Ouch REGGIE!
NoIDidn't Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Actually, with all things being equal (both MM & OW equally emotionally invested in the A, sexually compatible and yearning for each other, "in love" etc.) I think sometimes it's easier for the OW to recover from an A situation. Because women are allowed to show their emotions, cry over a loss, vent to her friends, move on with her life and explore possibilities that exist in the future. But men, especially MM, HAVE to keep it all inside, pretend everything is okay, life is fine and nothing is wrong. They have to maintain a facade (especially to their W). Sometimes it seems like it works to their advantage (fake it till you make it theory). But I know that when the grief hits them, it'll be a tsunami instead of a splash. Of course, this is all dependent on how "In Love" the MM was to begin with. But the ones I know, the wave has been pretty big. While I agree with some of the premise of this thread (wink, jj33), I don't agree with this. It doesn't matter what the gender is of the wayward spouse, husband or wife. Its very difficult for both because they are trying to hide their feelings from their spouse and families. If you think that a MW's H wants to see her cry over her OM, you are a couple of fries short of a Happy Meal (lol). Maybe the OPs have it easier in that they get to go through the loss more *publicly*, if you will. But if it was an office romance and no one was supposed to know about the A, the OP still has to hide the crying. So, yeah, I disagree with the quoted sentiment. I understand how the poster feels that way, but disagree.
NoIDidn't Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I have an ex from before I got married that I was madly in love with. My H knows about him and the relationship. I used to be in love with him. I am not anymore. We don't have total NC. Its nearly total, but not completely as we chat once a year or so. The feelings never go away completely, but our perspective about the feelings change over time. If one feels that NC has to be total, they are waiting for their perspective to change more than likely. Eventually, you don't want what you can't have. It doesn't have to be a negative thing, just a freeing of yourself from the longing. And, freeing the other person to go on without worrying about the past. I wonder if the guy's W in the OP knows that he was cheating on her? Was there a d-day? Have they been to counseling?
Author jj33 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 W found out about the A well before it ended. The d day did not end the A. It was the MMs dragging his feet that ended it. There was MC after the A ended. MM had been in IC during the A when he was grappling with the decision to leave. And yes he has several children at home. He felt it would be better for them as a family as he and W simply werent happy.
TOWinNYC Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 If you think that a MW's H wants to see her cry over her OM' date=' you are a couple of fries short of a Happy Meal (lol).[/quote'] NID, Agree on this point (even though I love Happy Meals!). I guess I should clarify that if the WS was the W, she WOULD be crying with her girlfriends over the loss - not necessarily in front of her H (unless maybe in MC? I wouldn't know) But if the WS was the H, there is NO WAY he's going to crying over the end of an A with his boys at the bar! I just meant that with men, there tends to not be an outlet, which makes things harder to bear which is why the emotion hits you harder when you least expect it.
Author jj33 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 Very true NID - It was so painful to view him across the room talking to female colleagues... Cant imagine how tough it is to hide the tears in an open plan office!
Reggie Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Ooh Reggie!!!! Ouch REGGIE! The oldtimer cracks me up.:bunny:
NoIDidn't Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 NID, Agree on this point (even though I love Happy Meals!). I guess I should clarify that if the WS was the W, she WOULD be crying with her girlfriends over the loss - not necessarily in front of her H (unless maybe in MC? I wouldn't know) But if the WS was the H, there is NO WAY he's going to crying over the end of an A with his boys at the bar! I just meant that with men, there tends to not be an outlet, which makes things harder to bear which is why the emotion hits you harder when you least expect it. I agree, but it depends. If you have friends like some of the ones I have, you wouldn't even be able to cry with them about it. They'd be telling you "get over it", "you shouldn't have done it in the first place", and other versions of "I told you so" and "you're an idiot for cheating". But dead on with the guys and the bar thing. LOL. I still remember when my H told one of his friends about his EA. Their version of bonding was saying "Yeah, I got busted too" and then asking how she (the OW) looked. Hilarious.
Reggie Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Same with my wife at the bar. These women's idea of bonding was to ask for a blow by blow description of the "activities'. When oh when will women develop some level of emotional maturity and the ability to open up? Now, back to my male group's discussion about the meaning of true love and life.
Mino Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I also want to share a story that interesting, wierd that as i was sitting here reading this thread, my mother calls. We were just talking about my grandmother who is 96. My mother all of a sudden tells me a a story about when she visited my grandmother last year. My grandmother confessed a secret. Aparently my grandfather cheated on her more then 70 years ago. He had a ow for almost a year. One day he came clean and told her. They stayed together, until he passed , 17 years ago. My grandmother just confessed this to my mother, saying since he has passed she has been having bad dreams about the A. She is still in pain, saying he only came back for the kids... She said that if she ever saw him again ( heaven ) she would give him a big kick in the Azz!!! She has carried this around for all these years..70 years... I am shocked.
Owl Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 I think that the original post makes a lot of sense, and it points out that there are TWO major components that need to happen for the marriage to recover from an affair, and for the WS to truly heal and "recover" from the loss of the affair relationship. First is NC. Yep, I've beat that concept to death in the past on this forum...I'll figure that for "nuff said". Second is repairing and rebuilding the relationship with the BS...rebuilding the marriage itself if you will. It sounds to me like JJ's friend did the first...but was unable to do the second. Frankly, my experience has shown me that not every marriage is recoverable...not every relationship CAN be saved, or should be. Sometimes the underlying damage is too great (Owoman's MM's marriage comes to mind here). There isn't enough foundation of "good relationship" in the marriage to rebuild from. Or...and this really does seem to happen...one or the other partner in the marriage has something wrong (emotional, addiction, personally problems, etc...) that a true relationship for that person simply isn't possible. This could be either...the BS or the WS. Or a combination of all of the above. I'd say that from what I've seen, pretty much EVERY WS will grieve for the loss of their OW/OM when the affair ends. I think that there will ALWAYS be some feelings left for that person...regardless of how the marriage works out. And let's be honest, most people DO tend to have fond feelings for any previous relationship...that's one reason why "ex's" are common affair partners. I have no doubt in my mind that my wife still holds some vestigal love and care for OM in her heart. It's simply who she is...she loves. He didn't "do" anything to hurt her when it comes down to it...so I'm sure that there's still some feeling there. But...I also firmly believe that her love for me is far, far stronger than anything there for him. In the OP story here, I'd suspect that a large part of the reason that the MM is still pining for his OW is because there was no true effort on his part to rebuild his marriage. He never truly CHOSE to re-invest in his marriage...for whatever reason. Add to that the fact that she still tries to contact him (which IS contact, btw)...and there ya go.
grogster Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 As an ex-MM, I totally understand what your friend is experiencing. As with marriages, not all affairs are alike. When the MM experiences the heights of passion and love with the OW (who in my case was also married), the end (and these relationships almost always end) can be brutal. Six years ago I ended a 5 year affair. When it was all done, I was no one's husband anymore. Fortunately I have good, solid relationships with my ex-wife and young adult children. As for the OW, I've not seen or spoke to her in over 4 years. Her marriage is doing just fine.
xxxheartbrokenxxx Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Unless they are serial cheaters, then they just move on to their next conquest and not care who they hurt. People like that would very seldom fall for the OW.
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