moman Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 First off thanks for the advice in advance. Sorry about the length I am trying to give enough detail to understand. Met a great girl through a friend. Due to logistics issues, we talked on internet for about 5 months prior to meeting. She is exactly what I want in a partner in almost every way except for one. I am finding it hard to trust me, and here's why: When talking she told me repeatedly she wanted to wait until her honeymoon to make love for the first time. She grilled this into my head so much, and how she would say NO to any attempt by me to shorten this schedule. She told me that it's about waiting for the right person. I never point blank asked her the question if she was a V or not. Granted, I'm not a virgin, but the idea of waiting like this was appealing to me. I've done some stuff and I'm to the point where it's time to settle down for a real relationship and probably marriage. So, we finally meet and there is a lot of chemistry. A LOT. When we kissed it was magic and I could see the happiness in her eyes. But wait a second, she was grabbing stuff that she shouldn't. She wouldn't let me touch her, but she could touch me. Hmmmm. Mind you, she was leading the whole thing because I still believed what she told me about waiting and I didn't want to push her, but after a week, she wanted me to make love to her. I was kind of surprised but really pleased that we were both so much in tune that it was becoming possible. She seemed upset that I had condoms in my suitcase (always prepared), and then she drops the big bomb: "I'm not a virgin, but it's been a long time" We had a very passionate night. I believe I unleashed an inner animal. However, my trust felt somewhat violated because she had let me to believe one thing when another was true. I do NOT believe she was deceptive or lied to me, but because of some issues with the past, I have difficulty trusting women on a deeper, emotional level. I told her this and she was happy I was honest, but she was crying and told me that a hymen is not important to trust. I agree. But setting expectations is important. The fact that I believed she was waiting for me was HUGE in driving us together - and now that I see it was an illusion, I'm lost. Am I crazy or do I have a legitimate concern? (It hurts me to write this message - I'm old enough that I shouldn't have these problems, and among my friends, they all believe I'm the macho cassanova....but when I give my heart and trust, I get weak)
SoulSearch_CO Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Gees. She's got some major issues with sex. You say she wasn't deceptive - BS! Yes, she was. I guess you have to decide if you want to continue to build on a relationship that was founded on deception (and lying by omission is STILL lying).
RRyan65 Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 You're a little crazy. Women say alot of things that make them come off as far less promiscuous then they are like, "I've never done this", "I've only been with so many guys", "It's been so long" or "I usually don't do this or that". This is especially true if these statements are unsolicited. Women are so full of ****.
SoulSearch_CO Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Women are so full of ****. I find guys are more impressed with my knowledge of technique rather than acting inexperienced. I don't get acting like some bashful little lamb being led to the slaughter.
RRyan65 Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I find guys are more impressed with my knowledge of technique rather than acting inexperienced. I don't get acting like some bashful little lamb being led to the slaughter. I get the "I'm not experienced, but you made me experienced in one night" kind of attitude. I'm like yeah right,where did you learn to ride like that? You've had more dick in you then hairs on my head. L?
Geishawhelk Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Just to flip the other side of the coin here, maybe she too has "issues of the past" that put her off having sex with anyone for a long time because she might have felt used, co-erced, cheap, or just plain cornered into doing somehting. To be fair - and I think you are, because you mention it more than once - she never actually told you she was a virgin. You assumed this is what she meant, and built a picture on this. If you are greatly dissappointed, it's as much down to the assumptions you made, as much as for the fact that she wasn't forthcoming with her reasons. And she might have very valid reasons. Did you detect any falseness in her crying? Was it an act to make you feel sorry for her? Or did she genuinely seem upset that this had affected you in this way, because deceit was truly not her intention? I suspect that she was very happy to give herself to you and make love with you, but then your accusations or comments were hurtful to her. Here she is, at long last, after a long period of abstention, giving herself to a guy who means the world to her - and this happens..... Women attach a lot of emotional value to making love. It's a shame you couldn't have tackled this a different way, and waited to discuss your misgivings another time..........?
Ramrod Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Get over your disappointment she's not a virgin, good grief!!!
mortensorchid Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Hmmm ... This is ... I've met people with issues about sex quite a few times in my life. They're not lying to you at first, but they choose to lie because they're ashamed of their issue (whatever that is). But remember that there is some truth behind this. She would not have the issue unless she had an experience. I have never met a true blue virgin who has said "I will not have sex until I am married and have NEVER done anything else even close to sex." This gal's not a true virgin. She must have done something in the past that hurt her. Whatever that is. If she doesn't want to tell you, then she can't trust anyone.
stillafool Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 So what if she's not a virgin? What she is is a liar. Why did she feel she had to tell a big fat lie like "I'm a virgin" is beyond me. If she lied about that she has probably screwed an entire football team.
fishtaco Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I don't think moman has issues with the fact that the girl isn't a virgin. The issue here is she said one thing and is doing another. That's a red flag. Sure, she probably had problems in the past that may have caused this behavior. I'm sure 99% of us all have a how-I-became-a-villain story. But is it worth it to date someone whose problem is right there thrown in your face? Everyone has issues. But issues are like roaches. For every roach you see, there are 500 you didn't. A kitchen with no visible roaches doesn't mean it doesn't have any, but is better than the one where you turn on the lights, and small shapes scurry away into the corners. I'm not sure how you can bring this up without having it explode in your face. But if there's a way she could explain her behavior, maybe it'll help. Or maybe you should start doing the Matrix thing and start dodging bullets, I don't know.
torranceshipman Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Lord above, man, give the girl a break! It was good of you to respect her wish to wait...and she obviously felt so secure and happy with you that she was, after all, happy to take it to the next level with you. Great so far. Then...you go and make her feel like a piece of crap. So whatever issues she had that made her feel hesitant about having sex...have probably come right back. You've probably really upset her and made a great experience kinda bitter sweet for her. Can't you look past the simple fact that she isnt a virgin (not that she ever even told you she was)? You're both grown adults for good ness sake - you're not 15 - and she obviously is exercising some self respect and caution and you go and make her cry over it AFTER sleeping with her.Cmon!! Plus you make it sound like being a virgin means the person cant have any sexual desires (you sounded really disapproving of her 'touching you where she shouldn't). NOT true or fair...we all have desires. Sounds like you might be making the poor girl feel like crap because she desires and enjoys sex with you. Thats messed up dude!!! Seriously, I think you are letting YOUR baggage f**k up a good thing-I think this is less about her than it is about you, actually. Just chill and enjoy a lovely relationship as I am sure you are both good people but...talk about finding a crappy reason to make her feel bad, seriously.
The Collector Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 What torranceshipman said. She never said she was a virgin, she said she wanted to wait. And then she changed her mind. Big deal.
fishtaco Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Duh... my bad, I can't read. You already brought this up, I'm sorta surprised you did, because that's, well, unless done with extreme caution, it would end up like how it did. So did she give you a good explanation? I'm interpreting your post as you don't care about the virginity and more about the fact that she said one thing and is doing another. But other posters seems to think you are obsessed with the virgin status. So which way is it?
Author moman Posted February 3, 2009 Author Posted February 3, 2009 Thank you to all for your comments. I am most upset that she led me to believe she was a virgin. I accept responsibility for putting her up on a pedestal, for causing the issue. I only did because she repeatedly told me that nothing would happen until honeymoon night so the first time would be special. She brought up a few times that I have much more experience than her and she would be telling me No,no no no no. This went on for so long that I finally asked her to not talk about it anymore because it seemed that she wanted me to try to make love just for her to shoot me down. We began talking about it after she showed me the article to the girl who sold her virginity for 3.8 million dollars. She asked me what I thought when I found out that she wasn't a virgin, and I told her I was surprised and disappointed. This all happened yesterday. I was surprised because she is from a very conservative Latina family and must be home by 9 PM, can't stay at my place very long, etc. I respect this, and I respect her. I was disappointed because of the reason I explained above. We are very honest with each other, and I told her everything I have told you guys. Her response was that she started to cry, and told me it was only a hymen, It didn't mean anything and that our views on the matter are different. Fair enough, I respect her and her opinion. The trouble I have is that I just want to know if I can trust her. She knows and admits that she lead me to believe that she was a V. She keeps bringing up the topic of marriage, how the hymen isn't important or anything, and then tells me what we are doing (sex) is wrong in the eyes of the church.
clv0116 Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 I am most upset that she led me to believe she was a virgin. Where is she from? Some cultures still consider a woman unfit for marriage if she is not a virgin.
The Collector Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 She's been brainwashed and pressured by her society and religion into feeling guilty about having sex (as is natural) and so went so far as leading you to believe she was a virgin. If you care about her, this is a forgivable offence. She could have maintained the illusion, but she was honest with you. Let it go, or let her go.
fishtaco Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 I guess for me the only issue I would see is that no sex till marriage is a big decision, and should NOT be made and un-made lightly. She said one thing and did another, to me that's a red flag, doesn't matter if she has an excuse (as The Collector mentioned). The red flag may or may not be a deal breaker, but it's certainly not a good thing. Not saying she's a liar (she actually didn't lie, moman assumed), but someone who is torn between family/tradition/religion/what other people think vs. what they want, adds another layer of complexity to dealing with them. If I were in that situation I would have to make an estimation if this is something I'm willing to deal with, vs. what she has to offer. I don't agree with the importance of virginity or no sex until marriage. But moman is absolutely entitled to not think the same way I do. However, moman, if you don't want sex until marriage, why did you have sex with her? It takes two. Also are you only going to marry a virgin when you yourself is not a virgin? Like I mentioned earlier, she didn't lead you to believe, you assumed. You can find her unsuitable because you want to marry a virgin, you can find her unsuitable because she gives up her determination not to have sex before marriage too easily (although you are at fault for this too), but you can't say she led you to believe she's a virgin. Anyway, I don't see this working out. You are looking for someone that won't have sex with you until marriage. She obviously does want to have sex in a relationship. If no sex is so important to you, and is worth giving up women you feel chemistry with, then stick with your determination. But if you're willing to give up this determination for women you feel a strong connection with, then that wasn't a very strong determination to begin with, and maybe you should question your own stance on that issue.
unacceptable62 Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Fishtaco: Saying "I want to wait until the honeymoon because I want the first time to be special" (which he said she said earlier) is the same as saying that she is a virgin. There is no denying that she lied about that.
The Collector Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 The first time (between us) is perhaps how she justified that one.
PinkKittyKat Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 The first time (between us) is perhaps how she justified that one. That's how I read it the first time I read the post.... That she wanted the first time(you guys together) to be special... not the first time EVER. For what it's worth, the hymen really doesn't mean anything. You can bust that thing falling on something, riding a horse, kayaking.... all before you turn 12.. LOL My first bf didn't even break my hymen... It only stretched a bit, and I looked like a damn virgin even after the 3rd time. True, he had a weeny peeny, but it just goes to show the hymen is totally ridiculous as a virginity proof. If you can break it through "not sex", and sometimes it doesn't break WITH sex, then what good is it as a virginity identifying mechanism?
Author moman Posted February 7, 2009 Author Posted February 7, 2009 I really, really appreciate the thoughtful replies. I do feel like she mislead me. We had a talk on Wednesday about it and appear to be a loggerheads about it. I think it is that she gave it up to her last BF and felt guilty about it, especially after her told her he wanted another woman, and then she tried to set the expectation that we would wait until honeymoon but then the chemistry was too strong and she gave it up again. She asked me how I would have felt had we been to honeymoon before I figured it out. I told her I would have asked for an annullment. Bottom line, I feel mislead. She thinks I'm being silly and says we have different definitions of what is important. I'm just going to try and have an open mind and see where it goes. We haven't seen each other since the blowup as I've been traveling but we will meet up this week. She did send me an email telling me that she didn't 'learn' anything from the other guy and now knows what it's like to feel good, but I didn't say too much.
Geishawhelk Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 I think your expectations are unreasonably high. If you're going to continue making such a big thing about this, I don't see any point in your continuing. Do you expect to marry someone chaste? Then this girl is not for you. Break up with her now. But know that you are as much to blame as she is in this, because your unreasonably judgemental approach has probably given her such a complex, she may well now have difficulties having a trusting and loving relationship with anyone. And if you expect to marry a virgin - don't f**k her in the first place. I can't believe how high-and-mighty you are being, particularly as it must have taken a lot of emotional trust and affection for her to decide that this was going to be special with you. If you don't break this off with her - I hope she does with you. I really think your attitude is extreme.
sid3 Posted February 7, 2009 Posted February 7, 2009 It sounds like you heard what you wanted to hear when she told you she wanted the first time to be special. For egotistical reasons, her being a virgin raised her value to you.And froming reading your posts, it doesn't sound like you have very strong feelings for this girl, but rather your disqualifying her because you feel misled. HUH? You were willing to change your beliefs about sex, and agreeing to not having it in your relationship, then she decides to be intimate with you, and now your stressing that she's not a virgin even though she gave it up to you, before the honeymoon..most guys would probably be happy that she decided they were seen as worth it to her.JMO It really does sound like your convincing yourself that she isn't right for you, maybe for other reasons. I do see your point about feeling misled, but if you have found someone where the chemistry between you is so strong, it seems like feeling misled would be something worth letting go of.
Els Posted February 18, 2009 Posted February 18, 2009 Then do you really care for her the way you think you do? When the major attraction factor was her virginity?! You were both just ONLINE ACQUAINTANCES when you spoke online. When you meet someone new obviously there are a few issues that you skirt, maybe because you've been conditioned to believe that the person won't like you exactly as you are... so maybe she was doing that, maybe her society and family imposed such guilt on her for maybe giving in just once to her last bf that she began to believe that you would never want to move on with her if she told you. So maybe she decided to not say anything for a while since you weren't serious yet, but then when you both met in person she realized that she did want you and thought maybe you were different, since you seemed to accept her in all other aspects! And you completely overreacted, IMO. Geez, when you said she 'dropped the bomb' I half expected that you were going to say she'd told you she had HIV or 5 underaged kids or a husband! I agree with Geishawhelk 100%. And here I was thinking that Caucasian men were far more open-minded and reasonable where the hymen or lack of it was concerned.
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