OW forum

[bentnotbroken]

Statistics are also that divorce rate is as high as 60%... So obviously somebody is leaving....

 

 

I initiated the D, and Mr. Messy didn't end up with OW. I think that is also an aspect of the divorce stats.

[jwi71]

Sure there is a process. People dont just pack up and leave....Robots maybe... The process is where one prepares themselves mentally. There are also many fears to overcome. This IS a major change in ones life that affects many. The second step is confronting ones S. This usually does not go smooth since the S demands they try one more time, go to MC..etc. Then the next step is to confront again. Then researching all the legal stuff, dont want to make stupid mistakes. Then Finding a place to live, then confronting again. In between these steps one is fighting his fears, guilt....So my opinion, there are many steps, and there not always in this order, and some are repeated several times. Its never as cut and dry as the other would like.. So what does these equate to.... lots of time wasted in the ow/ow eyes.

 

The mental process should be easy enough as he is another woman's bed. The mental process to leave didn't fail him then. He had no problems leaving the W on those nights did he? There is NO mental process - how can there be when each affair partner professes undying true and deep love for the other. Over a period of years. Really, where's the process? Explain it to me because I don't get.

 

Read the OP's original post Mino. Its true deep and undying love for each other. What more of a freakin' process is there for him? And again, he no problems with the "process" in meeting her for those stolen moments.

 

And that's the point to the OP - with true, deep and undying love for her WTF is he waiting for? I bet if she asks her MM to his face the name of his lawyer - she gets a blank stare.

 

If he loves you then he has already gone through the "mental" process. He loves you right?

Then the only process left is called divorce. Lawyers hired, assets argued over and visitation (if needed) is hammered out. Its awfully simple.

 

Real question is why hasn't he?

Answer: the MM has no intention of leaving.

[whichwayisup]

Excellent post JW. I was thinking the exact same thing earlier, but didn't know how to word it so it would make sense.

[precious1357]

The mental process should be easy enough as he is another woman's bed. The mental process to leave didn't fail him then. He had no problems leaving the W on those nights did he? There is NO mental process - how can there be when each affair partner professes undying true and deep love for the other. Over a period of years. Really, where's the process? Explain it to me because I don't get.

 

Read the OP's original post Mino. Its true deep and undying love for each other. What more of a freakin' process is there for him? And again, he no problems with the "process" in meeting her for those stolen moments.

 

And that's the point to the OP - with true, deep and undying love for her WTF is he waiting for? I bet if she asks her MM to his face the name of his lawyer - she gets a blank stare.

 

 

f he loves you then he has already gone through the "mental" process. He loves you right?

Then the only process left is called divorce. Lawyers hired, assets argued over and visitation (if needed) is hammered out. Its awfully simple.

 

Real question is why hasn't he?

Answer: the MM has no intention of leaving.

 

 

Mental process...what is the mental process that goes into stringing someone along over a period of years, going back and forth..putting on a front for the wife and family...but stating there is no love for the wife...what is the mental process that goes on there...is it just plain lying or is it more???

[whichwayisup]

Mental process...what is the mental process that goes into stringing someone along over a period of years, going back and forth..putting on a front for the wife and family...but stating there is no love for the wife...what is the mental process that goes on there...is it just plain lying or is it more???

 

Again, it isn't just about love - It's about everything that holds a marriage together. The glue. If the glue is strong, an affair may not end a marriage, let alone be enough for a MM/MW to up and leave their life. For whatever reasons he/she may have to chosen to stay and have someone on the side, and it works for them. (them meaning MM/MW).

[herenow]

So the MM finds out about LS and what is he going to say: "Yeah, you caught me, I'm no different than all those other MM they post about on LS"? Of course he is going to tell you he is different. If he told you anything else, he knows the affair would end and I'm sure he doesn't want that if he can avoid it. Sounds like he is already lying to his wife, what's one more lie to his OW?

 

Every MM who engages in an affair is in the "process" of something. In many cases the real process begins when the BW finds out. If the BW kicks him to the curb you can bet that the "process" will speed up significantly. That is when the real MM comes out. If he really wants to be with the OW, a d-day is the perfect chance.

 

However, many MM don't really want to leave (for whatever reason, please let's not get into another "they only stay for the kids" conversation). If the BW doesn't want him to stay, he can spin it by telling the OW he has left, when in fact in many cases, he has begged his wife to stay with no success.

 

I have said this many times. A MM who is not capable of dealing with his own issues or problems in his marriage without having an affair, needs to figure out why he made that choice. If he goes from his marriage to another relationship without exploring what was missing within himself, chances are he will continue the pattern.

[jwi71]

Mental process...what is the mental process that goes into stringing someone along over a period of years, going back and forth..putting on a front for the wife and family...but stating there is no love for the wife...what is the mental process that goes on there...is it just plain lying or is it more???

 

Excellent question.

 

What motivates them to continue the A?

Is it all needs being met (albeit by two or more persons)?

Is it fear? Fear of leaving and fear of staying?

Is it some deep rooted mental malfunction or disease?

Is it simple cake-eating?

Some combination of the above?

 

I don't know.

 

And if you ask for your own situation - post an update and we can continue this there. In fact, how things for you considering the actions of the one son...please do post an update in another thread.

[2sure]

I guess what sincerely baffles most is that MM always seem to placate the OW by saying or implying that they dont love their wife. From there, it is said or assumed that the marriage has exisiting problems. Why do these previously exisiting problems or verbal statement of lovelessness absolve the affair partners?? I dont get that.

 

Lets assume he doesnt love his wife. In fact, lets assume the wife doesnt love him. So, OW is asked to wait, or takes it upon herslef to wait for the demise of the marriage. In fact, OW sometimes gets frustrated that the BS hasnt pushed things along.

 

What on earth makes you think the wife isnt also waiting it out??

 

Marriages have ups and downs, phases, and changes that sometimes last for years. If BS has waited through illness, finances, addictions, children, their own misgivings, thier own issues - what makes you think he/she wont wait out you?

 

So, everybody ends up waiting. Waiting on WS , who is waiting for someone else to make a decision.

[herenow]

What on earth makes you think the wife isnt also waiting it out??

 

Marriages have ups and downs, phases, and changes that sometimes last for years. If BS has waited through illness, finances, addictions, children, their own misgivings, thier own issues - what makes you think he/she wont wait out you?

 

So, everybody ends up waiting. Waiting on WS , who is waiting for someone else to make a decision.

 

Yeah, I get the feeling that some OW think that BW's will do anything to stay married to the MM. When in fact some BW's are looking for a way out as well. Or, when they find out that their H has been having sex with an OW, they are done with the marriage no if, ands, or buts about it.

 

There have been many stories where on D-day (or any other day), the MM finds out that his wife is also involved with an OM. What I find bizarre is when the MM and OW are upset at how selfish the BW is being by having an affair. All of a sudden the BW is a bad person exposing everyone to disease and heartache. When in fact, all of them are doing the exact same thing. It becomes even more crazy when the MM is enraged at the OM. Nothing says hypocrisy more than an affair.

[Owl]

A "process" to me would indicate a series of actions towards a defined goal.

 

The "goal" here is that he can be with the OW forever...

 

But my question would be...what "series of actions" has he taken?

 

Not words...not telling you that he's going to leave her...

 

What "series of actions" has he completed?

 

If it's a "process"...that means he should be somewhere IN the process...and he should be progressing down that path.

 

What progress have you seen him make down that "process"? How long has he be "in the process", and what does that timeline look like compared to the steps he's completed? What real actions has he completed, in what timeframe?

 

THAT is your true indicator of his real intentions. Not his words, but what he's actually done.

[Mr. Lucky]

Lets assume he doesnt love his wife. In fact, lets assume the wife doesnt love him.

Here's what I don't understand - if both of your assumptions are true, what keeps the WS from leaving the marriage to be with the OW? Most of the OW threads have the following two common themes:

 

1). The WS's marriage is bad. It must be - no WS, while sleeping with the OW, is also sleeping with his BS, right? According to what the OW is told, the marriage is sexless.

 

2). The WS and OW have a special connection. It's not just physical, they were meant to be together.

 

If both of the above are true, the obvious happens - the WS leaves his marriage for the OW. Failing that, you can draw your own conclusions...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mino]

Mino --- you confuse me!! I would have never guessed that you were the OW in an affair where it took him 4 years to leave. My A is relatively new, and we are falling in love ... it is the beginning, although I have known him for two years prior ... in response to my posts you advised me to get out asap ... and I don't know why this is because your situation worked for you ...

 

... no, I am not planning on "hanging in there" if I feel tortured and am not enjoying it, him or the process of getting closer to him ... but, I do want to know how you handled it .... I am going to do what I am going to do, and obviously, have not decided to leave the affair .... I am enjoying it ... and at this point .. somewhat deluding myself that I don't care about the outcome ... (I do because I think I am in love) ... but, at the same time, I know that I have no control over the situation from the standpoint of what he does or doesn't do in terms of leaving ... so, I am trying to the old adage of not worrying about or trying to control that which is not yours to control ... I am using this as an opportunity to build my inner strength for all things in life ...

 

... as a way to learn to always put your best foot forward, regardless of what ends up ultimately happening (in any situation), and enjoying the process and expecting change as part of life ... and to learn how to not worry about things which we can't control ....

I am sorry to confuse you. I always feel the need to tell someone who is just in the begining of an A, to leave. Why you say? Because the truth is they do take a long time to leave. MHO. And there is not guarentee that they will. Some do, some don't. What sucks for the op is the waiting to see..... that part is hell. If I can spare anybody the pain, and get them to accept that it is not as cut and dry as many people think. You really have to be prepared to many times wait years. Thats the reality. many Op didnt realizes this, myself included. But by the time I realized this , I was already in to deep. So I just want a "newbie" to know, its a very hard road to take, are you prepared to walk it?

[2sure]

So glad you asked...lol

Here's what I don't understand - if both of your assumptions are true, what keeps the WS from leaving the marriage to be with the OW? Most of the OW threads have the following two common themes:

 

1). The WS's marriage is bad. It must be - no WS, while sleeping with the OW, is also sleeping with his BS, right? According to what the OW is told, the marriage is sexless.

Since NO marriage is w/o problems, an affair can ALWAYS be justifed by saying "there were problems before we met". As to the sex, LOL. Dont you think the same MM who tells the OW there is no sex in the marriage tells the Wife there is no sex outside the marriage. LOL. Thats why its a secret, and affair! Get it?

 

2). The WS and OW have a special connection. It's not just physical, they were meant to be together.

Of course. Love trumps all. The heart wants what it wants after all. And if the love in a marriage wanes momentarily or temporarily, due to problems or not - it must mean OW is the soulmate.

 

If both of the above are true, the obvious happens - the WS leaves his marriage for the OW. Failing that, you can draw your own conclusions...

 

Oh thats right. I wonder why it doesnt usually work out that way...?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Sandy223]

Thank you Minno ... sorry, I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread! I am just trying to keep this all in prospective .... Flyonthewall, this is how I am handling my own situation: I know what I want, and am putting my heart first ... I would like to get married and be in a committed relationship because I think it would be GOOD for ME. If my MM ends up being it, it was because it was meant to be ... If my MM ends up being it, it is because he really did end up loving me enough. Make this simple: That is all you need to concern yourself with ... that (a) you know what you want for your life; and (b) that you put YOUR heart first! Then, the burden is on him to actually prove to you through his actions ... Not that he is worth the wait (because if you put your heart first you won't put yourself in a waiting position for anybody!) ... but that you actually belong together by being with you! Then ... all of the burden is off of you ... how he makes it happen, when, etc. are all of the things that fall on his plate .... not yours ... so you can relax and spend your precious time and energy being the best person that you can be for YOU. Period.

[jj33]

So Sandy, you are hanging in there in the hopes that someone's marriage breaks up even if it takes years? Do you really want to be that woman? You are just at the beginning.

 

Why set your sights on someone else's husband?

 

I have to say I think this is one of the few times I have seen someone as predatory as you are in their posts. Its chilling.

[herenow]

When I saw the first signs that made me think my H might be having an affair, I dismissed them. Why? Because I thought my H was different. I thought at the time, we had a good relationship, had a good amount of sex, he bought me thoughtful gifts, we went on vacations, etc. No, he was different, I thought, he would never do that to me.

 

Well, he wasn't so different after all now was he? At least he came clean and has done some life changing work to help himself and our marriage. I have also made some changes as I don't want my marriage to go back to those days when I was in denial.

 

His OW thought that they were "soul-mates". In MC I asked my H how she could think that since he said he never spoke about leaving or said that he loved her. He explained that when she would ask, he just avoided answering. So, she took that as agreement of what she was thinking, when in fact it was avoidance of him admitting the truth. She also thought he was in a "process" only because he never told her any different.

 

In denial we believe what we want to be the truth. I was wrong and the OW was wrong. We both wanted my H to be our image of what we each wanted. He was neither.

[Sandy223]

I am not setting my sites, hoping and praying that someone's life falls apart! I never actively went after anyone .. I am in love, he came after me; I am, moving on in other areas of my life ... dating other people ... whatever will be will be ... I am not part of anyone's marraige, etc...

 

so ... today I am a predator for handling myself in a more balanced fashion as opposed to me completely falling apart like I was a couple of months ago? What the hell is so chilling about someone trying to protect themselves when they are in love and can't let go????? What gives?

[Mr. Lucky]

I would like to get married and be in a committed relationship...

I'm not being a hater, just asking - does it give you some pause that your MM was in a "committed relationship" when you met him?

 

Mr. Lucky

[jj33]

Well its less chilling when you say you are in love and you cant let go then when you say you are totally in control of your life, looking for statistics on how often men leave etc.

 

You sound confused. You are so early in the relationship - you really should get out. People dont leave because the OW stays with them. They leave because they want to leave. You are either predatory or setting yourself up for heartache - regardless of whether you have a future together.

[SerenityX2]

Sandy,

 

I'm sure this feels like a "bash Sandy" party....but you come to a forum for help and insight no?

 

There are things that we see and you are denying. It's your choice granted, but you need to at least be honest with yourself.

 

How do you figure you are not part of their marriage? Actually that is exactly what an OW does, it puts herself square in the marriage which now becomes a triangulated r'ship except the wife doesn't know. It's denial pure and simple to say you are not affecting that r'ship on many levels. From their interactions to time away...every action has a reaction.

 

The fact that you said "you CAN'T let go" ....amazing you sound like another OW on here that thinks in a few mos (b/c her MM is clearly going no where even stated from her) that she can walk away.

 

Sandy the nature of these r'ship's is they are very soul sucking at their nature, it is going to rob you of your self esteem no matter that you are guarding it. It's what these affairs do. The guy if he's done it before moves on to someone else...while you are left shattered wondering how and why you let someone do this to you. Your story is no different, I get that you think it is.

 

I know you think I'm harsh, it's okay I can take it:) I wish to help you see that you're heading for so much pain. Your choice.

 

What we do and the choices we make have far reaching implications than the immediate.

[Dexter Morgan]

So he is in the process of leaving and soon we will be together.

 

Uh...congratulations?

[SerenityX2]

Flyonthewall

 

I'm interested in the part that you say you are not in fantasy land.

 

It's not meant that he showers you w/presents and rose petals are strewn to the bedroom when you are together.

 

It's more basic than that, can you call him whenever you want no matter of the time of day? Can you go see him and vice versa at any time? Can you spend unlimited time together whenever you wish without watching the clock? Can you hug and kiss in public in any public place without fear of someone seeing?

 

If you answer with a no....and even if followed with a "but"....then it is a fantasy. The r'ship still exists with secrets and lies fueling the passion. It's not real, that's why when it goes to real life, many times it can't survive.

 

I don't think people should be afraid to post. I agree that there shouldn't be bashing, but what is assumed is bashing usually is not. A difference of opinion is not bashing nor is pointing out what's wrong with the particular circumstance or treatment being received.

 

More often than not if people are afraid to post, they just really don't want to face up to the truth, they want to stay in happy denial that serves no purpose except to prolong the pain.

 

I hope this place never changes, even though I'm happily married and never been an OW. I once upon a time was a BS however 16 years ago I'd say that BS hat has long since washed under the bridge:p I have no hate towards the OW....really I do have sorrow b/c I don't like to see people in needless pain. There are better solutions out there even within yourself. Too many try to find it FROM someone else.

 

Even if I don't stick around someday, I hope folks like Owl, and WWIU, and JJ, 2Sure, 2Sunny, NJ and many others do stick around. There are too many places out on the net that cater to hand holding and banning anything negative towards an OW but how does it help an OW when she stays stuck for 5, 10 and I've even seen 20 ...yes 20 years? This place has probably been invaluable for many who used to be OW and found a better way, I know of one or two personally that got out and are far happier and they appreciate all viewpoints and don't consider it bashing. I hope more people lurking and reading will have the courage to get help and post.

[jj33]

And Sandy I didnt post what I did to bash you. I said it to make you think. Think hard about what you are doing. Everyone thinks they can handle it during those first few months when its new. But its not a good road to go down. I know I have been there. And even Mino for whom it has worked out has said she wouldnt put herself through it again. Drop the bravado. Look at what you are doing. You sound like you are very young. If that is true then this is an even worse decision. Dont waste the best years of your life on an adventure with someone who cant really be there to enjoy it with you.

 

I have been an OW twice. This time and once many years ago. After a year or so he offered to leave his W. I told him not to, we didnt want the same thing in the long run. I was young (20s) he and his wife were in their 30s. They didnt have any children. For whatever reason, that relationship didnt pain me at all. He was living in my city on a project. I had just moved there and didnt know a lot of people but I knew him because we were both connected to people in his home town. I never agonised over him, never worried about what the future held it was a totally different experience. It was carefree from my perspective.

 

Looking back, as much as I enjoyed the time we spent together, I was not in love with him. I think that is what it is like for many MMs. the time spent together is time spent in the moment. If that is where you are Sandy that is great. But you dont sound like it. So just be careful. Part of the whole syndrome is to convince yourself that you can go with the flow but you are clearly convincing yourself. Even if you cant see it at this moment.

I felt very guilty after it was over. Guilty for having been involved with someone else's husband. And swore I would never do it again. And then I did many years later which brought me here. And I wish I hadnt done it. I was carefree but it changed me. It changed the way I had to look at myself when I looked in the mirror. Even tho he was out of town even tho I wasnt taking time from then even tho I had my own rationalisations for why it was OK, it changed my view of myself.

 

But athe point for you is I have been an OW with a care free attitude and that is not you. You are fronting it out with bravado and you are heading for a fall. If this man is ready to leave his marriage he will do it, regardless of whether you put yourself through the pain of the rollercoaster that goes hand in hand with being an OW who has fallen in love.

 

(apologies to op for threadjack)

[flyonthewall]

I have been trying to log on here for a while, been having problems with that. Please don't dissect and analyze every single word I say because I am not very good at wording things and if I miss something you dont have to crucify me for it. Also I am very tired.

 

Almost two years ago when this started I was in no way looking to be with him. Yes I did have strong feelings for him DEEP down inside all those years before but I knew that we would never end up together. It was not easy, yes I was on high from spending time with him but the truth is that is how I am, I am a very passionate person, always have been. I never ever ever thought for a second that it end up where we are today.

 

I never pressured him to leave, I never even brought it up because in my mind I just thought that I would meet someone else and that this would eventually fade away. That was always my intention even though it killed me inside to think of never being with him. It just was not an option for me or for him. The past 2 years he has really opened up to me, he never really was the type to express his feelings very well and I notice that change in him. I remember telling my friend over a year ago that he was not going to stay married very long, not that he was going to come running to me but just because its not where he wanted to be. He didn't tell me this I just drew my own conclusion based on our conversations. It kind of scared me a little but I just brushed it off.

 

Everything was great between him and I (we were always very good friends) and I never had been so happy in my entire life. For the record- we do other things together besides have sex, so its not all about that. We just click. Anyway we were just going day by day and then he just told me I can't do this to you anymore and I said what? He says not be with me all the time and that he is leaving his marriage to start a life with me.

 

Now before everybody jumps on what I just said, understand something- you don't know him and you don't know me, you may THINK you do but you don't. I was completely taken aback and my mindset was completely changed. I was confused, I didn't know what I wanted anymore. Now I had this pressure on me to get my life ready to be with him full time which was never even a thought in my mind even though that is what I wanted. I can't get into specifics on my own personal issues but trust me they all came to a head at that point. So thats when the ups and downs came. He was like WTF is going on with you? I told him I can't handle this right now. I think at one point he wanted to get caught just to get it out. Thats when I started reading into things here because now all of a sudden I was thrown into a world I was not prepared for. So I started in on him because I didn't know what else to do. I have calmed down since.

 

Over the past few months I have struggled tremendously in my heart and in my head. It has not been easy for me. I started fighting with him and I started all of the fights. He tells me listen I am leaving by ** 09, he was in the process (yes there is a process for those who think otherwise) he wanted a clean break from her. I am not getting into specifics on what exactly he has done to move on but he IS leaving because he is MOVING OUT and not in with me either. I hear people talking about statistics on being with the ow, well no one will ever know that he and I were in an affair before we get together.

 

When I said that I don't live in fantasyland it means that everything is not 100% perfect but what relationship is? This is the closest I am ever going to get to it. We make each other happy and thats what matters to us. No matter what happens, whatever life brings our way- we will always make each other happy.

[flyonthewall]

Thank you Minno ... sorry, I don't mean to hijack the OP's thread! I am just trying to keep this all in prospective .... Flyonthewall, this is how I am handling my own situation: I know what I want, and am putting my heart first ... I would like to get married and be in a committed relationship because I think it would be GOOD for ME. If my MM ends up being it, it was because it was meant to be ... If my MM ends up being it, it is because he really did end up loving me enough. Make this simple: That is all you need to concern yourself with ... that (a) you know what you want for your life; and (b) that you put YOUR heart first! Then, the burden is on him to actually prove to you through his actions ... Not that he is worth the wait (because if you put your heart first you won't put yourself in a waiting position for anybody!) ... but that you actually belong together by being with you! Then ... all of the burden is off of you ... how he makes it happen, when, etc. are all of the things that fall on his plate .... not yours ... so you can relax and spend your precious time and energy being the best person that you can be for YOU. Period.

 

I agree 100% with you. My main concern is myself and my well being, what is best for me. I have always been an independent person (ok maybe not when I was a lot younger ;o) I don't need to be with him, I want to be with him.