I'm back :-(

[paperchase]

I showed up in the forum around mid-December, 2008 looking for advice and consoling. I had just been dumped and was having a tough time coping like many of you.

 

My girlfriend of 1 year had been putting me through the ringer and so I finally decided to go NC. It had some short term success in leading to reconciliation, but we never officially got back together and now we are apart again.

 

I was so happy that she began reaching out to me in the wake of NC that I played my cards all wrong. I gave in too fast; I made myself too available; and I compromised things that were important to me just to have her back in my life. The funny thing is that she came back with the thought that I needed to make some changes and I invited her back with the thought that she would be different. We really didn't see eye to eye.

 

Our reconcilliation involved some fun nights out, some good sex, me helping her sort through many of life's immediate challenges, but she never really wanted to address our relationship and she never indicated a desire to put a title on things. This was strange because during our hey day she was sooo jealous and worried about me cheating. The dynamic took a really big turn and some point and for the life of me I can't figure it out. I used to be her everything and towards the end I was just an afterthought. It seemed like she thought she was doing me a favor by making herself available when she used to demand to spend every free moment of her time with me.

 

Anyway, I told her I couldn't go on like this and I went NC this past Tuesday. It's been so tough. The first time was a little easier because she kept reaching out almost immediately so I at least knew she cared. But this time she has been silent. I know things are looking up in her life and she has a very good support structure with friends so it's a lot easier for her to pass the time. I'm a bit of a recluse so I get to spend time with my thoughts which can eat away at you.

 

I'm getting the feeling that things are probably really over this time. In my heart I know that she has many shortcomings which might be impossible to overcome, but darn if I don't love her. Whenever I feel like breaking NC, I do my best to remember the problems we have, the reasons we can't work long term and the way she treated me. I try to get indignant as opposed to sentimental, but I'm such a sentimental guy.

 

Ok, I'll stop rambling but I'd love to hear a female's perspective on what makes a woman go from bloody hot to ice cold overnight. Lately she's been more luke warm. Distant at times and then telling me she still loves me at other times, but she's never gone back to the woman I feel deeply in love with.

[BackonTrack2]

Thats because she's over you and not "in-love" with you anymore..... And it doesn't happen over night, its a build up, u just didn't notice and she doesn't reach out to you because she already tried that and it didn't work so she gives up........

[paperchase]

That's cold even if it's true. I guess my next question would be if you can win back someone who's no longer "in love" and, if so, how? Either way, I just wish I understood what happened to us because I hardly know the person I used to love anymore.

 

Once someone goes in that direction where they are easily irritated, impatient, quick to pick a fight and storm out, what can you do to give them pause and perspective? I don't mind a little tough love, but can you be a little more measured under the circumstances?

[samspade]

I used to be her everything and towards the end I was just an afterthought. It seemed like she thought she was doing me a favor by making herself available when she used to demand to spend every free moment of her time with me.

 

You said it all right here, brother. Once a woman turns that corner, well, it's over.

 

 

Once someone goes in that direction where they are easily irritated, impatient, quick to pick a fight and storm out, what can you do to give them pause and perspective? I don't mind a little tough love, but can you be a little more measured under the circumstances?

 

I don't think you can do anything, and I'll tell you why: If she is already at a stage where she's doing what you described above, then she checked out a long time ago. She's not giving you "tough love," she is indicating to you that she is no longer IN love, and she is only tolerating you for superfluous reasons such as sexual need, pity for you, or simply boredom.

 

Your job over the next few weeks is to think about how YOUR behavior changed. So many men wonder what you wondered, how a woman who was so into you could be so cold. They don't stop and think for a minute that perhaps they stopped BEING the man she fell for. Guys think once they get a girl, they can get away with all the pathetic behavior that they had been suppressing when they wooed her. I'm talking about clinginess, beta-male supplication, lack of self-respect.

 

I'm not saying you turned into some kind of wussbag. But I am telling you that you should be introspective and think about where you might have been at fault. Perhaps your relationship ran its course - that you cannot control. But what you CAN control is how you act/react in your next relationship, and your present and future actions can be informed by what you've learned from past mistakes. Maybe it was all change from her end, but you should at least evaluate your behavior - give the LTR a post-mortem.

 

They say good decisions come from experience....and experience comes from bad decisions.

[paperchase]

So it's over. When they turn that corner, NC and other things don't bring them back? We were spending time together, but she was clearly pulling back. Choosing not to spend the night and things that were a foregone conclusion in the past. I'd invite her over when she used to check for my every move and want to spend every minute with me. She was kissing me and telling me how she loved me and it can't just go away overnight. She invited me to spend the night at her place after choosing not to stay at mine the last evening we shared. But then I got frustrated by the course/pace/dynamic of the new relationship and I pulled the plug in a kinda dumb way and wen NC. Now I'm feeling like I acted in haste and was wrong. I wish I could undo it and have just been patient. Thoughts?

[samspade]

Just let it go. NC isn't for bringing someone back, it's for moving on.

 

You're right, feelings don't change over night. Her interest in you probably diminished over time, as much during the initial relationship as during the little coda you just went through. By the time a woman breaks up with a man, her feelings have usually already changed and she's made up her mind. You were probably oblivious to the changes, so you need to pay better attention to her interest and your behavior. (By "her" I mean your next girlfriend; this one is gone.)

 

Your mistake wasn't pulling the plug. Your mistake was so easily letting her back into your life. You showed her that you need her more than she needs you, and she took full advantage until she got bored. You probably "pulled the plug" when the power was already cut, anyway. Just remember, you don't need her to be happy. You weren't born with her and you won't die without her. Find someone new.

[paperchase]

that's a pretty good assessment of what happened. I definitely didn't play my cards right after NC was broken. knowing this makes it really hard to let go. I haven't done any begging or pleading, but it's been really tough. She doesn't want to even come by ("I don't think that would be a good idea"). She says she doesn't want any confusion that we are friends which, she believes, is what caused me to lash out at her. She's right. So now I'm getting the if it's meant to be it will be and let the chips fall where they may. Says she's not dating other people but that we both should since we're not a couple. Still pretends to get jealous at the thought of me with another woman -- says she doens't want to know. Definitely does not want to talk about "us" or our relationship or anything like that. Right now, we just text msg each other sometimes. I gave her a pep talk for a job interview...she got the job. I want to go NC, but it seems contrived this time or rude since we've been talking.

 

The thing that's crazy is I have no problem meeting beautiful women. I'm a handsome guy, well educated, nice material trappings, etc. I go out and meet new ladies with no problem and finding intimacy is not a big deal either. I'm just not interested and I believe that once I go down that road, I'll be falling head over heels for the next good catch. I guess that's a good thing, but that's scary because I know that all relationship are great for the first 6 months.

 

You asked me to think critically about what I did wrong or need to change. That's tough. I'd say that I need to be more reserved in my love and neediness. I mean I am guarded at first, but after the women beg for 100%, I fall in deep and the relationship can get intense. It's intense for both of us. Women fall me me really hard. But I think this hurts my appeal because when they meet me they are drawn to a guy that's hard to land. They know I'm a good catch and they know if have options. This woman that has broken my heart fought hard to be #1 only to give up the position. The things I need to change seem like games I need to play, though. I just feel like relationships are one never ending game and the minute you stop playing, you risk getting played.

[samspade]

The things I need to change seem like games I need to play, though. I just feel like relationships are one never ending game and the minute you stop playing, you risk getting played.

 

It's easy to believe that, and I used to think the same thing. But I used to go through the same thing as you....I was independent and hard to get, but once a woman fell hard for me, I became a little too predictable or "about" her. What I noticed was that my behavior would change, and the girl would get bored.

 

What I realized was that even though I was initially guarded, once the wall came down I probably put a little too much emphasis on her and/or a relationship. I was making it too high a priority, as if the notion of not having her as a girlfriend would be an abject failure on my part, or remaining single in general would make me unhappy.

 

Well, like the .38 Special song goes, "hold on loosely, but don't let go." What I've learned is that my happiness shouldn't ride on these things - that I am perfectly happy either way and that I need to make my life about more than finding a girl to complete me, or whatever. I had always paid lip service to that, but I don't think I was truly living that way and keeping a fresh perspective when a potential LTR did come my way.

 

So while you may think being reserved in your love and neediness (as you said) is akin to playing a game, I think it is more about keeping proper perspective. You have to be careful who you give your heart to. There are a lot of women out there, of varying degrees of quality, and you owe it to yourself to find a high-caliber one for you. And just like you wouldn't give a woman a gift every day, neither should you pour your heart and soul to her every day. The effect of showing your feelings diminishes if you do it too often. She should be an important part of your life, but not the centerpiece.

 

I hope that helps...just my perspective, anyway.

[paperchase]

Hey, you didn't really answer my quesitons regarding NC and whether I should use it since I've used it before and now we have limited contact.

 

I want to go NC because this friends thing isn't working for me. It's like she hangs around and makes small text talk, tries to find out where my head is, and then bolts when she sees I'm still available. I get so tired of the texts that pry for info and then accuse me of having another woman over. She never gets mad in the texts, she always makes the accusation and then writes LOL! What do you make of this?

 

Anyway, I went silent once and she couldn't handle it...I gave in. I went silent again, she was unphased, and I couldn't handle it..Now we are semi-silent and she reaches out once or twice a day, maybe more if I ignore her, but it just seems like a game. She doesn't want to be my girl and I don't want to lose her but I don't like the feeling of what we have right now.

[samspade]

I want to go NC because this friends thing isn't working for me. It's like she hangs around and makes small text talk, tries to find out where my head is, and then bolts when she sees I'm still available. I get so tired of the texts that pry for info and then accuse me of having another woman over. She never gets mad in the texts, she always makes the accusation and then writes LOL! What do you make of this?

 

Anyway, I went silent once and she couldn't handle it...I gave in. I went silent again, she was unphased, and I couldn't handle it..Now we are semi-silent and she reaches out once or twice a day, maybe more if I ignore her, but it just seems like a game. She doesn't want to be my girl and I don't want to lose her but I don't like the feeling of what we have right now.

 

Go NC, completely.

 

You don't want to be friends, she doesn't want to be lovers. You have to quit caving in. You are being very weak, man. You don't want to lose her? You need to change your mindset and walk away.

 

I'm not going to make anything of what she texted you because it's a waste of time trying to interpret it. Bottom line is she is playing you like a Stradivarius. She knows she has you under her thumb.

 

So just stop it. Unless you want to be her girlfriend-with-a-penis, you need to cut her out of your life. Right now your misery is your own fault, because you won't stand up and walk away. Stop worrying about "losing" her; you already LOST her, buddy. So quit reading her texts and move on.

[paperchase]

you're right as usual. I think I know what the texts mean but why bother. they definitely don't mean I want you back. they probably mean I'm projecting to make myself feel better. the last convo she called and I picked up but made sure to end the discussion first before she claimed she had to go. that caught her off guard. I feel like going dark will make her chanse harder which will test my mettle. how do you respond to the text: "r u ignoring me?" It's bound to come. I guess you ignore it. when using NC to win them back, you want them to chase but when using NC to move on you're probably going to do better if they just leave you alone. In many ways I feel like darn if you do, darn if you don't.

[techfan]

Thats because she's over you and not "in-love" with you anymore..... And it doesn't happen over night, its a build up, u just didn't notice and she doesn't reach out to you because she already tried that and it didn't work so she gives up........

 

I hate to see this sorta thing.... its similar to what happened to me. A lot of people I feel think relationships should always be about being 'in-love' when in fact being 'in love' is not real love at all. Real love is there when it feels like it isnt and you work on problems together.

 

I fear society and Hollywood and romantic books, etc. have painted this false image of what being 'in love' is and have misguided so many people. Very few if any LTR really have couples who are 'in-love' all the time.... sure if comes and goes, and as time passes, love grows into something more genuine. The in-love feeling does come back thou based on many factors but its not something thats 'always' there. I feel a lot of people think it should always be there and when they reach the point where it isnt, they bail.

 

Sad to see personally as true/real love is an action and not an emotion. It can be associated with an emotion and usually is but effort and work are what real love is about.

 

I wish more people would wise up and not always think love and relationships are fairytales.

[paperchase]

I totally agree with you. It especially applies to younger people. It's so easy to fall in love and feel the rush of excitement associated with a new fling. It's when the newness wears off and you see a person for their good and bad qualities, that the real realtionship begins. I think so many people just chase that initial falling in love feeling. It's one of the reasons I think reconcialtion/second chances are so rare. Because often our ex's are already chasing the rush of new love, and soon we will chase our own, and the newness of most love affairs lasts 6-9 months by my measure...meaning, by the time you realize the grass isn't greener, it's too late.

[paperchase]

She's got a new man. Just found out. I'm devastated but I guess this will make it easier. I have no options, no false hope, only NC.

[techfan]

Hang in there buddy. Doesn't matter if she has a new man. You need to move forward and better yourself. Dwelling on it won't get you anywhere. I am in a very similar situation all around. Slowly i am learning that the more time im spending thinking about her the less i am improving myself for the future.

 

Stay positive and try to keep some perspective, i know its tough thou.

[samspade]

She's got a new man. Just found out. I'm devastated but I guess this will make it easier. I have no options, no false hope, only NC.

 

That blows, but look at the bright side: You won't be clinging to any more b.s. You can fully move on, and completely shut her out of your life.

 

Apply this knowledge the next time the situation arises. Most of us learn through these experiences. Some people are naturals at moving on. Others, of course, never learn.

 

And remember, the best "revenge," if you want to call it that, is living well. Get on with your life, find a new woman or women, be happy.

[paperchase]

yeah it sucks but it kinda helps because she had me thinking I needed to make some unspecified change. she couldn't point to anything concrete but I kept looking for a fix. for the last few months she would get really jealous at the thought of me with another woman, meanwhile she's with another man. she would turn her back on me at the slightest hint of an argument which is easy to do when you have another man waiting standby. things just make more sense. she basically strung me along until she was ready to make a full transition.

 

Here's a funny text tidbit. So here's how I found out about the other man. I paid her an unannounced visit and as I pulled up to her place I texted her: "whatcha doin?" I watch her pull in the driveway and she replies "back at the doctors. lol!" where she was supposedly the day before. I let her go in the house and sorta collect my thoughts. Eventually, we are face to face and she's acting very strange. A little off balance by my unannounced visit, but a little off balance cause I just caught her in a lie. She says she's heading to work, doesn't have time to talk, doesn't want to really hug me and doesn't want to shut the door to her room with me in it...it's too hot she says. she has roomates so this means I can't talk freely. In hindsight, I wonder if he was hidden in the closet. lol! So I leave and on my way out I look deep in her eyes and tell her she doesn't have to lie.

 

She's like, I know. I'm like, no, I know. I know you are with another man. She finally admits claiming it's not a boyfriend but it will be and it started...GET THIS..last night. So she says I"m not welcome and I need to leave...she basically closes the door on my face. And hour later I get these two messages within 10 minutes of each other.

 

msg 1 -- I think we should talk b4 things get out of hand.

 

msg 2 -- I guess ur ignoring me again. I want to talk but if u don't want to then fine we'll cut off all communication.

 

What the hell does this mean. What is there to talk about. Is she scared I'm going to go crazy or does she want to tell me more lies. I ignored her and will continue to do so, but I'd love for the resident expert to share his thoughts.

[samspade]

Here's a funny text tidbit. So here's how I found out about the other man. I paid her an unannounced visit and as I pulled up to her place I texted her: "whatcha doin?" I watch her pull in the driveway and she replies "back at the doctors. lol!" where she was supposedly the day before. I let her go in the house and sorta collect my thoughts. Eventually, we are face to face and she's acting very strange. A little off balance by my unannounced visit, but a little off balance cause I just caught her in a lie. She says she's heading to work, doesn't have time to talk, doesn't want to really hug me and doesn't want to shut the door to her room with me in it...it's too hot she says. she has roomates so this means I can't talk freely. In hindsight, I wonder if he was hidden in the closet. lol! So I leave and on my way out I look deep in her eyes and tell her she doesn't have to lie.

 

She's like, I know. I'm like, no, I know. I know you are with another man. She finally admits claiming it's not a boyfriend but it will be and it started...GET THIS..last night. So she says I"m not welcome and I need to leave...she basically closes the door on my face. And hour later I get these two messages within 10 minutes of each other.

 

msg 1 -- I think we should talk b4 things get out of hand.

 

msg 2 -- I guess ur ignoring me again. I want to talk but if u don't want to then fine we'll cut off all communication.

 

What the hell does this mean. What is there to talk about. Is she scared I'm going to go crazy or does she want to tell me more lies. I ignored her and will continue to do so, but I'd love for the resident expert to share his thoughts.

Dude, what did you expect? This is what happens when you play detective. You were actually staking out your ex. What difference did it make if she has a new beau or not? The only thing that should have mattered to you was her behavior toward you, which was mostly unwelcoming. You caught her in a lie, big deal. She no longer owes you the truth about her private life. By showing up at her apartment, unannounced, and trying to "catch" her, you are behaving like a total chump. Once again, you've shown her how hung up on her you are. If her new guy WAS in the closet, I'm sure they had a good laugh after you left.

 

And now you're still receiving and examining her text messages? "What does this mean"?? WHO CARES!

 

You see, paperchase, you only THINK you are going NC, but by receiving texts, you are still opening yourself to her world.

 

And I am not an "expert," but I can tell you that you're not helping yourself with this type of masochism. Will you please delete this broad from your life and move on, for your own sake? You are your own worst enemy.

[paperchase]

I'll admit I'm messed up. That's why I'm posting here. I wasn't stalking though. I actually wanted to surprise her and get some sex. I'd been holding out and I didn't think she had a new man at the time. I figured if I asked, she'd say no, but if I showed up, I had a good chance. Still, it was a little shady.

 

I disagree that she didn't owe me honesty. I'm reflecting and I'm mad because I've been competing with this guy for a while and not knowing it. That changes everything and that's playing unfair. It's easy for her to blow me off with someone else waiting. Then she says we should date other people after she has solidified a relationship. The playing field was not level so I'm pursuing her and pushing her away while she's pursuing something new and I don't know about it. I guess this doens't matter to you.

 

I went out on a date last night and this model talked my ear off for 3 hours over dinner. She barely ate. All I could think about was my ex. I haven't broken contact and I won't. But man is it tough. I also stopped smoking cigarettes 3 days ago. Pack a day for 10 years and 72 none...cold turkey. I digress.

 

If you could interpret the stupid texts I'd appreciate it. I know it's not helping me but what can I say?

 

And of course I want to delete her. She got a head start by living the lie. I am going to date and see what's out there, but darn if I don't have regrets over how this has turned out. I'm going NC to move on, but I really wish there was some hope of getting my x back. She's so insanely jealous that if I had just played my cards right I may be in bliss instead of posting here. I definitely have a problem because I am still drawn to her even though I know she's not good for me.

[samspade]

The playing field was not level so I'm pursuing her and pushing her away while she's pursuing something new and I don't know about it. I guess this doens't matter to you.

 

The playing field is rarely level. All's fair in love and war, and you two weren't exclusive. You should have been creating options for yourself and not pinning your hopes on her coming back.

 

I went out on a date last night and this model talked my ear off for 3 hours over dinner. She barely ate. All I could think about was my ex. I haven't broken contact and I won't. But man is it tough. I also stopped smoking cigarettes 3 days ago. Pack a day for 10 years and 72 none...cold turkey. I digress.

 

Don't do dinner dates. Dinner is for someone you're serious with. Otherwise you're giving a free meal to some woman who doesn't necessarily want to see you again. I also think they take too long and can be awkward if you don't know each other/haven't slept together yet.

 

I commend you on quitting smoking - that's a great first step toward a better you!

 

And of course I want to delete her. She got a head start by living the lie. I am going to date and see what's out there, but darn if I don't have regrets over how this has turned out. I'm going NC to move on, but I really wish there was some hope of getting my x back. She's so insanely jealous that if I had just played my cards right I may be in bliss instead of posting here. I definitely have a problem because I am still drawn to her even though I know she's not good for me.

 

You are still drawn to her because you think you have no other options. Regardless of the dates you may have gone on, you have a scarcity mentality, and your ex represents your best shot at having an LTR and getting laid again.

 

Playing your cards right would have been going completely NC and finding other women. You have contempt for her "head start" because you know it was what YOU should have been doing. Instead, you were pining for her.

 

As for her texts, and interpreting them, if you really need to know, this is what she is saying: "I hope you don't hate me and we can be friends so that I will feel better about all of this. I can't handle someone being mad at me. However, at this point, I'm not against cutting off communication if that is what you want, because you are starting to act creepy and I don't want you getting in the way of my new relationship if you can't handle it."

[paperchase]

thanks, S! You have a good feel for things it seems. I guess all is fair in love. I should have been exploring options and, truthfully, if I had done that she and I might still be together, but I was working with false information.

 

Your text decoder is spot on too. It kinda hurts but that was my take basically. The longest we've ever gone NC is a week and she's much better equipped to play the waiting game with a new man in the picture -- guilt notwithstanding. I gotta go one day at a time, but my short term goal is 2 weeks. If she's reached out to me by then, it will make me stronger. I won't break silence, but it will make me stronger by knowing I'm not alone. Does this make sense?

 

Also, I have options for sex. Not morning, noon and night options, but a don't ever have to go more than 7 days without getting laid...for free. LOL! The problem is I know none of these are girlfriend material and I don't really like those chicks so it's not always a rewarding experience.

 

This is probably a dumb question, but did I make a mistake by not talking to her? I can't imagine anything she had to say which would have helped me cope. I figured the biggest statement I can make is to do nothing. I'm know for letter writing and I've written plenty about this, but sent none.