JamesM Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Well, that didn't work ! The thread was deisgned to be a kind of lightning rod to draw some of the flak away from some of the other threads where people were looking for support and advice and got rocks tossed at them instead. But instead of rocks, I've had lots of congratulations and some questions, I knew what you were trying to do, and I knew it wouldn't work. You will notice that the ones you hoped to draw haven't even bothered posting. Why pick on someone who can handle the abuse? The BSs aim their angry and bitter (at least this is my interpretation) words at those who are new or at those who are posting genuine heartfelt concerns. Why bother you? They know they will lose in a verbal fight. It may happen, but I would be surprised...even after I posted this additional semi-challenge.
Author OWoman Posted January 30, 2009 Author Posted January 30, 2009 I guess that the fact that you've been willing to share this (and other) MM with his wife is proof that you don't believe in sexual exclusivity. Will you have an "open" marriage? Mr. Lucky Actually this fMM is the sexually exclusive kind, and I've never had to share him (in the sexual sense; perhaps not in the geographic sense) with his xW as sexual relations between them had ceased. He hasn't any wish to engage sexually with anyone else, and can't conceive of developing such a desire. I don't see that as immutable, despite his firm position at this stage. He accepts that - despite my current sexual exclusivity - I am not by nature monogamous, and that at some stage I may develop appetites outside of the M. He's cool with that, or at least claims that now. That too may change. I'm really not too stressed on what may or may not be in the future. If things don't work out, at least we will have had the very best times of our lives together, have shared our happiness with others and have produced some wonderful memories. And if things do work out, we have the rest of our lives to enjoy it. We're both far too old to inhabit the land of absolutes - we're living the best lives we can with the best people we know, and making each day the best it can be.
Author OWoman Posted January 30, 2009 Author Posted January 30, 2009 Oh James, I wanted to take you up on this: It takes a long term marriage (more than ten or twenty years) to "prove" that you have succeeded. While I agree with your broader point (that it's not getting married that's the success, it's succeeding at marriage) I'd like to challenge the notion that the success of marriage is measured (or measured only) in terms of length. My parents were together about 20 years. It was 20 years of hell, for all of us - they "stayed together for the kids", as was the mantra of the time - and split once we'd left home. By your measure, that would be a "successful" marriage. My fiance and his xW were together more than 30 years. Again, that would measure up as "successful" by your statement - despite the ongoing abuse, the traumatised kids and the psychological damage (to fMM, and I'm sure reciprocally to his xW; I don't believe it's possible to be that abusive and not suffer damage oneself), etc. OTOH, a happy couple where one partner is snatched prematurely by death may not make the cut time-wise, but if in their, say, eight years together they built a happy home and thriving family and were much cherished and loved by all who knew them - is that not a success (and a tragic loss, more so, for that)?
JamesM Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Let me make a slight correction. It seems I unintentionally misled you. My point is not that all long term marriages are successful. Not at all. I am simply saying that a successful marriage will last. And so, saying to someone that "we have a successful marriage" while having only been married a year or five years would be considered humorous by those who have been married ten or twenty years. I would say that I have a successful marriage after 19 years...BUT I am aware that "it ain't over til it's over." On the other hand, you do have a point. A successful marriage in some senses can be determined by HOW the couple acts in a marriage. How do they communicate? How do they treat one another? Do they have complete honesty with one another? Yet even then, we see so many "successful" marriages end after only a few years. Yes, I am cynical about calling any marriage a success, because after 19 years of marriage, I can see that while today may be successful, tomorrow can be a failure. Maybe the only way we can truly determine a successful marriage is by how much commitment each has towards the marriage. Hmmm....a good thread topic.
Reggie Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 This is so noble and inspiring of you O, that I thought I'd offer myself as a dart board, as well. Any OW or Om that feels the need to label folks as haters, bitter or judgemental, feel free to vent on me. I get so tired, like you, of seeing all the antipathy. And, O, if you personally feel the need to further disparage your affair partner's spouse, give me all the dirt on her and let me know just how overjoyed all his kids, your mutual friends , etc. are over his obvious upgrade. Truly a heartwarming and touching story of true love ,maybe the romance of the century. Service to others. it's the name of the game. 1
Mino Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 woman expire at 45? LOL, thats too funny I call it being in her prime years!!! And I CAN Vouch for that!!!
bentnotbroken Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Hey me too(dart board that is). Since I am often described as bitter:eek:I wish I could say good luck, alas I can't. But I don't wish you or your marriage ill will. It sounds like the children will be better off away from the emotional abuse. God bless.
GirlNextDoor11 Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 I want to first say congratulations to Owoman on your upcoming marriage. I wish you long and happy years with your soon to be husband! I also want to say I am newer to this site and because of all the rocks being thrown is exactly why I have not posted my story! But I want to thank everyone who has because your expirences have definetly helped me through some harder times this past month and a half. And now my MM and I are on the verge of a very exciting and happy relationship! Exspecially once he tells his soon to be EX he wants a divorce. Because she is extremely abusive, mentally, physically (i've seen the proof) and emtionally! And its funny right now i can see the replys from the BS's on that.....Yes he already filed and shes being served the papers on Monday!
Trialbyfire Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 What a thread... There are so many things that don't jive. When a person doesn't believe in exclusivity and lives in a land where polygamy is legal, why all this fanfare or even any discussion about being an OW? You'd think that a cake eater would just marry multiple women. It culturally doesn't make any sense at all.
hunkahunkaburninlove Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 So this will be an open marriage? You will be able to bed who you like. As will he. Correct?
whichwayisup Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 My only concern is this - You say right now he's OK with you exploring with other men later if you feel the need to - WHAT happens if he changes his mind and doesn't want you to? Will you still go ahead and see other men since he knows this is how you are, or will you try to make your husband happy, and be faithful to him, not hurt him? Or would the marriage end?
NoIDidn't Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Of course it didn't work. That was too easy.
Author OWoman Posted January 31, 2009 Author Posted January 31, 2009 What a thread... There are so many things that don't jive. When a person doesn't believe in exclusivity and lives in a land where polygamy is legal, why all this fanfare or even any discussion about being an OW? You'd think that a cake eater would just marry multiple women. It culturally doesn't make any sense at all. Polygamy is legal in MY country, not in HIS. We'll be living in his, in the short term, until his kids are done with school. But even if polygamy was legal in his country, he would still have needed to divorce his xW to have a court ruling establishing things like custody arrangements and financial settlements to prevent continued abuse and contain any negative impact she may try to have on our R.
Athena Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 I have a history of being a serial OW. Many As, many MMs. And no, I have no shame. None whatsoever. I feel no guilt and, given those situations and were I in the same life phase as I was back then, I would do it all over again. Hurl your rocks now! And, some of those MMs dumped their BWs because of the As. Yes, homewrecker!! Hurl more rocks. It wasn't what I wanted from them - I wanted all the advantages and control and power of an A - so I dumped them. Come on, fling those rocks! And now, my most recent MM and I are about to marry. Are you both planning on being faithful to each other?
Trialbyfire Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Polygamy is legal in MY country, not in HIS. We'll be living in his, in the short term, until his kids are done with school. But even if polygamy was legal in his country, he would still have needed to divorce his xW to have a court ruling establishing things like custody arrangements and financial settlements to prevent continued abuse and contain any negative impact she may try to have on our R. Divorce isn't easy and neither are custody or financial settlements. This could drag on for years, if one party is reluctant. Why the need for marriage? This still doesn't jive with your attitudes towards the sanctity of marriage. Are the two of you, of the same faith?
Athena Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 1) There are many advantages to dating MM and thats a thread for another time. 2) To be honest some of the skills and "inside" info I was privy to from MM gave me some advantages with men in general. 2Sure PLEASE start that thread! I for one would like to hear your insights about advantages to dating a MM, and I also am curious to hear about the inside information you gleaned from the complaining MM!!! Thx!!!
Author OWoman Posted January 31, 2009 Author Posted January 31, 2009 My only concern is this - You say right now he's OK with you exploring with other men later if you feel the need to - WHAT happens if he changes his mind and doesn't want you to? Will you still go ahead and see other men since he knows this is how you are, or will you try to make your husband happy, and be faithful to him, not hurt him? Or would the marriage end? WWIU, that's something we've discussed. He says he'll accept my need to do so, though I'm aware that even if he did, he's unlikely to be overjoyed by it. I can't say for sure what the future will look like, but were I to guess I'd say that if I did feel such a need, I'd raise it and we'd discuss it. If he was unhappy about it - whether he admitted that or not - I'd be faced with a choice of which was more important to me, my H or my appetite, and to be honest I don't really see it as that big a contest (at least, not from where I'm standing now - this may all change!). I know what I have with him - and on the physical side alone, he's so far and away the best lover I've ever had that it's clean killed my desire for other men. That's not something I'd easily compromise or want to diminish. The chances are great that any other man wouldn't measure up to him, and I'd then be faced with double disappointment - the encounter that didn't deliver on promise, and the disappointing of my H. So from where I stand now, my call would be with my H.
awkward Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 I think the difference between your thread and many others is that you are not in pain. The affair isn't destroying you. You are happy. I understand what you mean when you say people post hateful things, but it is clear to see their pain as well. A lot of times people are telling the poster the same things, but it is said differently. I think with an affair posters are going to receive moral judgments, especially by BS's. IRL one would expect the same thing. I think it is better to hear from all sides and take the advise/criticism and try to process it. Yes it is painful to read some of it, but affairs aren't normally romantic happy relationships. Normally, the OW is hurting or needing something more from the relationship that MM can't/won't provide. I don't think one post is going to change how someone is in their relationship. But collectively, maybe they will see it and get out. I can tell you if I was an OW new to this board, I would spend time reading old threads rather than worrying about being attacked. The first thing I would learn is that my "affair" really isn't all that unique. Well some are unique, but if I read the old threads I would see that is rare. The second thing I would learn is just like IRL, many people don't look fondly on affairs and probably aren't going to sugarcoat their responses. But mostly I would learn that the concern in the posts aren't just for the BS, they would be for me too. I would have to filter through the responses and find what helps. The same thing would go from my real life friends and families and their advice/criticism. It's not like there are a lot of happy OW on this board. If there were and they were posting it, sure they'd get the judgments but they'd also get the congrats like you did.
Author OWoman Posted January 31, 2009 Author Posted January 31, 2009 Divorce isn't easy and neither are custody or financial settlements. This depends on where - and is one of the reasons we're marrying in my country, where D takes a couple of weeks for a court appointment, ten minutes in court for judgement, and that's it! This could drag on for years, if one party is reluctant. They could, and have dragged on for a year... but have now been agreed and finalised, so we're ready to roll. Why the need for marriage? This still doesn't jive with your attitudes towards the sanctity of marriage. Are the two of you, of the same faith? We're citizens of different countries. For either of us to have the right to live and work (as opposed to just visit for several months at a time) in the other's country, we need to be married. And yes, we're both humanists. He was raised an atheist, I was raised Christian, but our cultural backgrounds are similar.
herenow Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 And yes, we're both humanists. He was raised an atheist, I was raised Christian, but our cultural backgrounds are similar. I think I get it. I have a friend who is a humanist. Now I'm not an expert, so forgive me if this is not right. My friend tells me that as a humanist, she believes that her views, or morals if you will, are to be determined by her own life experiences and not by law or religious beliefs. If that is true, I have a much better understanding of where you are coming from. But I ask that you understand that many of us have also based our opinions on our own personal experiences. That doesn't mean we are "haters".
candelight Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 He's gonna do the same thing to you. Guaranteed. You guys will get married, and he's gonna find some nice young hot thang, and she will wreck your home. Or it might not even be with a woman. You know men these days. You take it to the bank that he will most certainly cheat on you too.
NoIDidn't Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 My friend tells me that as a humanist, she believes that her views, or morals if you will, are to be determined by her own life experiences and not by law or religious beliefs. Your friend sounds more like an anarchist than a humanist. Humanists typically honor the laws where they live. They don't get too bogged down in religious dogma, but they are usually law abiding. And humanists don't have anything against marriage that I know of. They might not get married because of its religious implications but I've never known one to actively go out and seek to disrespect what was precious to others (and no, this isn't the HATERATION that you are seeking OWoman, lol). But most of my humanist friends are lesbian, go figure.
herenow Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Your friend sounds more like an anarchist than a humanist. Humanists typically honor the laws where they live. They don't get too bogged down in religious dogma, but they are usually law abiding. And humanists don't have anything against marriage that I know of. They might not get married because of its religious implications but I've never known one to actively go out and seek to disrespect what was precious to others (and no, this isn't the HATERATION that you are seeking OWoman, lol). But most of my humanist friends are lesbian, go figure. She does abide by the laws, but her morals aren't shaped by church or state. However, my friend is married (happily from what I see) with kids who go to school with my kids. She just believes that her own experiences determine her morals and beliefs. This is how she described being a humanist to me. Her ethics and morals pretty much match mine because that is how she chooses to live. Do unto to others... because that is the right thing to do for her, not because someone told her it's what she should do.
NoIDidn't Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 She does abide by the laws, but her morals aren't shaped by church or state. However, my friend is married (happily from what I see) with kids who go to school with my kids. She just believes that her own experiences determine her morals and beliefs. This is how she described being a humanist to me. Her ethics and morals pretty much match mine because that is how she chooses to live. Do unto to others... because that is the right thing to do for her, not because someone told her it's what she should do. Well, on that note, she sounds like a humanist. They (humanists) typically follow the "do undo others" rule better than religious people.
herenow Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 Well, on that note, she sounds like a humanist. They (humanists) typically follow the "do undo others" rule better than religious people. On that note, OWoman should embrace any woman who has sex with her new husband. As a humanist, I'm sure she will agree.
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