So what are the chances this would work?

[LovieDove24]

I think you know what you must do but kicking the habit stirs great feelings of weakness within you. Nine months without him and then two months again? You go girl thats awesome! The problem I believe you're running into (and correct me if I'm wrong) is you feel that if you fell "off the wagon" once you can do it again. So rather start and stop the dance up over and over again you remain stuck where you are. Its easier than dealing with the distance of NC.

 

This is the cycle of self defeat and addiction. Stop beating yourself up for your moments of weakness and focus on the prize at hand: A life free of this rollercoaster. It will take baby steps. You will slip up again, he will call you and you may cave. But please realize that recovery is gained in inches not miles. You must have your best interest always at the forefront in order for this to work. Please be gentle with yourself but please also try your best and break free from this unhealthy relationship.

[jj33]

KG this whole idea of things just happening. Maybe its an english thing but MM was really fond of that idea. The idea that he could SAY oh but we are just friends and then oh if something just happened it was because our passion caused us to lose control. Its just difficult to be around each other without something happening.

 

Its all that romantic tragic doomed love stuff that takes away responsibility. Means they dont have to feel responsible for anything that happens.

 

So he can come to your house. Say you are friends you just happen to have sex each time and he can feel like he is not in an A. Its bull****.

 

I read MM the riot act when he suggested that well if something happens its understandable after all we have this history. Bottom line is I never let him in my home after we broke up. Because I never wanted that to happen.

 

Even tho we say we are great friends we are not. We are people with a romantic history who still have feelings for each other. But that is not the same as being friends. Its a very very different thing.

 

If you REALLY want to be friends you need to have distance for a good period of time. But the thing is you dont want to be friends. You want to keep sleeping with him.

[2sunny]

He told her if fell off a sweater he had lent to one of his co-workers.

 

wow, he can sure come up with the lies for cover ups with ease and at a fast pace...

 

makes me think he's pretty damn good at this. must have been practicing for a very long time to make it seem so smooth and easy.

 

also triggers me to wonder now if he's got other OW besides just you...

[Bluebird In My Heart]

Quick post to say that while I might not agree with all of your decisions, KG - I do admire your honesty in putting it out there like this. You seem to be able to see a lot. But yes of course the heart and the mind will often be on two different tracks, eh?

 

I do think that you're helping a lot of people by being forthright about what's going on at any given moment.

 

Hang in there.

 

 

*hug*

[InvisibleGirl]

That man is manipulating you big time, ive seen it, ive lived it and trying to recover from it.

 

Don't mistake the fact that he keeps coming around and wanting to see you and talk to you to mean he has feelings for you or would ever think to leave his wife and family for you. His life is just how he wants it to be and he will keep stringing you along until finally you decide enough is enough. He really doesnt have the same emotional attachment to you as you do to him and it will not hurt him to lose you because he is not emotionally invested in your relationship nor the one he has at home. He is not going to stop you from seeing him because it makes him feel good and needed that someone is that into him and he really has nothing to lose except for you. You on the other hand are giving up time that should be invested in yourself and your future and chances to meet with good people.

 

Just because he makes you feel good when you are together doesnt mean you should accept feeling bad the rest of the time.

 

I don't know your whole story but I know that that man is bad news...

[Hedodreamer]

This seems a bit harsh! Haven't you ever heard of compassion!

[bentnotbroken]

This seems a bit harsh! Haven't you ever heard of compassion!

 

What's harsh?

[2sunny]

This seems a bit harsh! Haven't you ever heard of compassion!

 

this seems odd as an initial post... never have seen a first post look like this. something's off... why defensive on the approach or even as you are arriving?

[You'reasian]

Back to the OP, does the MM's wife know that he went down on you?

[KismetGirl]

I think you know what you must do but kicking the habit stirs great feelings of weakness within you. Nine months without him and then two months again? You go girl thats awesome! The problem I believe you're running into (and correct me if I'm wrong) is you feel that if you fell "off the wagon" once you can do it again. So rather start and stop the dance up over and over again you remain stuck where you are. Its easier than dealing with the distance of NC.

 

This is the cycle of self defeat and addiction. Stop beating yourself up for your moments of weakness and focus on the prize at hand: A life free of this rollercoaster. It will take baby steps. You will slip up again, he will call you and you may cave. But please realize that recovery is gained in inches not miles. You must have your best interest always at the forefront in order for this to work. Please be gentle with yourself but please also try your best and break free from this unhealthy relationship.

 

thanks lovie

 

i guess i havent gotten to that point where my misery has outweighed those feelings of euphoria brought on by actually being with him, unfortunately. when it's good it's good, and when it's bad it's soul crushing, but it really is addiction. At my friend's superbowl party last night he called MM my heroin, and I guess he's right. Most of my friends have met MM at least once when I had a dinner party and MM came when we still worked together, and they lament that , despite wanting to dislike him before meeting him, they all loved him and understand why it's hard for me to let go, because besides the intense physical attraction he really is very....well....likeable. Funny , intelligent, charming but silly, not full of himself or cocky, I don't really know anyone that dislikes him. He doesn't even feed me lines that many MMs seem to: doesn't tell me he's going to leave his wife, doesn't ask me to wait for him, doesn't make false promises, tells me all the time I should find someone who will treat me right....him and I both know we are weak towards each other. If I ignore him he can , sometimes, get moments of strength and refrain from calling me, but as soon as I give him another opening (just one text, one call, just seeing me for even a minute in person) he loses his will just like I lose mine. It's a cycle of addiction. I guess I should stop obsessing over "when will this end" and just try to enjoy the good parts, and if he breaks things off again one day....well, I guess there isn't anything I can do. I need to learn to focus on the important things in my life, and just consider the moments with him as just some moments of oasis from the daily grind. Realistically I know with 99.9% certainty he'll never leave his wife. I can't help but wonder how it would be like if he did, I guess, that's pretty natural....but I've had alot to deal with this last year, especially, and it's hard to let go of something that makes you feel good even once in a while. I know I never mentioned this before, but one of my best friends died in a car accident last year, and it really f**ked my head up for a while, and this was while me and MM were having one of our really good spells when he was coming to see me regularly and things were going well and I can't express how much that helped me to feel better when all I could otherwise do was picture her face and think that I should have been able to do something to help her (long story on her....she had a bad drug problem , among other things). Anyway, sorry, rambling again....

[KismetGirl]

KG this whole idea of things just happening. Maybe its an english thing but MM was really fond of that idea. The idea that he could SAY oh but we are just friends and then oh if something just happened it was because our passion caused us to lose control. Its just difficult to be around each other without something happening.

 

Its all that romantic tragic doomed love stuff that takes away responsibility. Means they dont have to feel responsible for anything that happens.

 

So he can come to your house. Say you are friends you just happen to have sex each time and he can feel like he is not in an A. Its bull****.

 

I read MM the riot act when he suggested that well if something happens its understandable after all we have this history. Bottom line is I never let him in my home after we broke up. Because I never wanted that to happen.

 

Even tho we say we are great friends we are not. We are people with a romantic history who still have feelings for each other. But that is not the same as being friends. Its a very very different thing.

 

If you REALLY want to be friends you need to have distance for a good period of time. But the thing is you dont want to be friends. You want to keep sleeping with him.

 

 

You're completely right JJ. I do still want to sleep with him. The friends thing is a desperation on my end to try to wonder how I could just keep seeing him without that rollercoaster of him feeling guilty and etc. He just came over tonight, to be honest, on his way home from work and we didn't sleep together. I didn't just to test myself. And further, he happened to stop by right after i got out of the shower, so i was sitting there on my bed next to him wearing nothing but in a towel, and yes, he had his hand on my leg while talking to me and would occasionally stroke my hair or something, but we just sat and talked for an hour, with my head on his shoulder, and it felt so nice. I've never met someone who could make me feel so at peace just by being there with me....and no, I havent forgotten the misery I felt when the "bad times' roll around, trust me. It just seems that lately we've tried to get back into our habit of actually TALKING to each other more, and that's made me so happy to be able to just talk to him sometimes and even though I want to rip his clothes off, and I know he feels the same way, if I dont indicate that I want it, he wont even push for it because in a strange way I think he wants to prove that he can just enjoy my company without sleeping with me. Don't get me wrong- I know that all I had to do was drop the towel and he would have lost it, but I didn't so he behaved. I dont know....am supposd to meet him for breakfast on wednesday morning. GUess we'll see how that goes...

[KismetGirl]

He told her if fell off a sweater he had lent to one of his co-workers.

 

wow, he can sure come up with the lies for cover ups with ease and at a fast pace...

 

makes me think he's pretty damn good at this. must have been practicing for a very long time to make it seem so smooth and easy.

 

also triggers me to wonder now if he's got other OW besides just you...

 

he was incredibly NOT slick at all when we first started this actually, and yes, over four years he's gotten somewhat better at sneaking around but after four years i'd imagine anyone would get a little better at it. he's still not the greatest liar in the world. I doubt he has another OW- he's got a very specific work schedule/system. Due to having to be available at all times for patient emergencies, his voicemail says what office he is at every hour of every work day, and then I know what days he goes to his second job because he shares it with a friend of mine, and then basically free time other than that he tries to see me on his way to work or on his way home. He get's so paranoid trying to hide me, I doubt he'd be able to fit another OW in even if he wanted to, which to be honest, not to toot my own horn, but I think he's pretty happy with the attention he gets from me. He isn't some cocky player....he's just missing passion at home, and admittedly, he gets it plenty from me. When he's not at work #1 or #2, or with me, he's at home. I'd be very, very surprised how he'd find time or mental energy for another OW. In my experience, most MM's have one OW at a time, it's rare they are juggling several....it's not as easy as it looks

[KismetGirl]

Quick post to say that while I might not agree with all of your decisions, KG - I do admire your honesty in putting it out there like this. You seem to be able to see a lot. But yes of course the heart and the mind will often be on two different tracks, eh?

 

I do think that you're helping a lot of people by being forthright about what's going on at any given moment.

 

Hang in there.

 

 

*hug*

 

Thanks Blue

 

I try to be honest...I don't always agree but I appreciate seeing everyone's point of views. No situations are exactly alike but its refreshing to have people to bounce ideas off of and it does keep me a little grounded when Im getting in my "love dovey" moments to come read certain things and put myself back to just a little reality. Im not a total moron and I dont expect things to work out in fairy tale manner with MM, but I do hope if other OW's in my situation read my stuff at least they know they aren't alone, and that they aren't all bad people....they're just confused. No one sets out to be with a MM....I certainly never thought I'd be an OW. It literally just happened one night. One kiss was all it took to open the floodgates of emotion. Funny thing is, four years ago, when this guy I know told me about how he had had a OW when he was married that waited for him for 5 years I remember thinking "Hell no! I am NOT waiting for ANYONE! I won't be doing this in 5 years!" Well, four years later.....

 

Hell, maybe someone out there who is just starting an A or thinking about it will read my stuff and how crazy it makes me and think twice before they get embedded in it :-)

[KismetGirl]

That man is manipulating you big time, ive seen it, ive lived it and trying to recover from it.

 

Don't mistake the fact that he keeps coming around and wanting to see you and talk to you to mean he has feelings for you or would ever think to leave his wife and family for you. His life is just how he wants it to be and he will keep stringing you along until finally you decide enough is enough. He really doesnt have the same emotional attachment to you as you do to him and it will not hurt him to lose you because he is not emotionally invested in your relationship nor the one he has at home. He is not going to stop you from seeing him because it makes him feel good and needed that someone is that into him and he really has nothing to lose except for you. You on the other hand are giving up time that should be invested in yourself and your future and chances to meet with good people.

 

Just because he makes you feel good when you are together doesnt mean you should accept feeling bad the rest of the time.

 

I don't know your whole story but I know that that man is bad news...

 

Ah yes....well I have a million posts so if you aren't familiar with my story you probably wont be able to catch up ;-) no worries

 

he doesnt promise me he's going to leave his wife to be honest....he never has. he has said he can't imagine being apart from his children, which implies to me he cant or wont D anytime soon. It's irrelevant that there are a million people out there who divorce and still see thier children. in HIS mind a D would be the end all to a normal relationship with his children....Im sure he isn't the only person to feel that way.

 

Hell, when I was younger, I thought a divorce would be the worst thing to ever happen to my family. Everytime my parents fought I dreaded hearing those words, I thought my life would be over as I knew it. But after it happened.....I got used to a new way of life and things were never the same, but it was ok. It's hard to imagine change. Change is scary. I do understand him in that perspective, even though other people think its an excuse. That's what Im trying to explain to people....no matter what he does, he doesn't purposefully manipulate me. He doesnt have to. I knowingly continue to see him because I love him. It's not like he coerces me into seeing him when I tell him I'd rather not to. he doesn't lie and say baby, baby, just wait a little more, i'll leave her eventually, oh i love you, oh just stay around a little longer, etc etc

 

But I do appreciate your concern....and you might be right in some respects, but its hard to know for sure. I do believe he does care for me in some way, its just hard to know in what way sometimes. I dont really ask him, and I dont really tell him how I feel about him alot of the time. I just assume he knows how I feel, and I guess he assumes I know how he feels. Which is a silly way to be, but its a weird situation. Normally when I date I am very forthcoming but this isn't really dating....

 

And you are right- just because he makes me feel good when we are together, doesn't mean I should accept the bad feelings that come when things are going bad or when he breaks things off now and then. But unfortunately that doesnt make it easier to leave. I wish it did...all the stress I carry all day long....god, tonight when he came over and just lay there chatting with me for an hour, the rest of the world melted away and for an hour it as just me and him laying in each other's arms , talking about various things, holding hands. Feeling peaceful. Tht's almost harder to give up than the fabulous sex we have (and believe you me, the sex part of our A is freaking amazing.)

[KismetGirl]

This seems a bit harsh! Haven't you ever heard of compassion!

 

Lol, I have had FAR harsher and mean statements throw my way, her post wasn't bad at all, it was pretty normal and quite balanced, I thought. Trust me, stick around on these boards a bit and you'll see some very harsh posts. Most people are quite level headed though, but thanks for the concern ;-)

[KismetGirl]

Back to the OP' date=' does the MM's wife know that he went down on you?[/quote']

 

Ummmm, well that's a bit of an odd question....why on earth would she know that he's gone down on me if she doesn't technically know about the A or that he's sleeping with me or even speaking to me....?

[jj33]

KG I think you are missing the point. No doubt you are very attractive. Getting a man to sleep with you is like shooting fish in a barrel. Its not a great acheivement to be able to seduce him no matter what he says about his marriage.

 

So that is not a barometer of anything other than the fact that he is attracted to you. I am sure many men are attracted to you. But its not the point.

 

I understand that you like being around him. But it just prolongs things and keeps the feelings alive. But it sounds like you are not ready to give him up yet.

 

And i say that with no judgment. I have a very hard time being totally out of touch with xMM. I understand the feelign that life is more pleasant when you arent totally estranged.

 

The thing is that getting out of the phsyical relationship is important because it will help you get your focus back and you need that for school. You are attractive. You have a high sex drive there are loads of people in NYC who would be happy to help you get through your exams without the emotional rollercoaster.

 

I know you think its different because you are young and perhaps someone like me doesnt understand but believe it or not (and noone is more shocked than I) things between men and women dont change that much as you get older. You just have a a few more wrinkles. But the dynamics are the same. And the laws of attraction are the same. And the decisions you have to make are the same.

[Chocolat]

I live in NY. There's plenty of nice, educated, guys with great jobs here who dont have wives and children scattered around the globe.

 

Kismet, I quoted this from advice you gave another poster. Why is it you can see so clearly for someone else but not for you?

[KismetGirl]

Kismet, I quoted this from advice you gave another poster. Why is it you can see so clearly for someone else but not for you?

 

 

Ah yes....well, you know, tis easier to dole out advice than to take it. Not much of an excuse maybe, but it is a reason....and anyway, that other poster has a mildly different situation than me....alas

[NoIDidn't]

Getting a man to sleep with you is like shooting fish in a barrel. Its not a great acheivement to be able to seduce him no matter what he says about his marriage.

 

Not about KG.

 

Regardless of attractiveness, I think this is true for just about all women (somebody for everybody, type thing).

 

About KG.

 

Being able to seduce a MM really isn't a great achievement. Truth is, he's basically hinted at in his agreement about your low and high sex drive comment, he really wants it more FROM HER.

 

He takes what you give him and then punishes you with his guilt. Is that worth going through any of this for? Push - pull. Push - pull.

 

What's most offensive is how he knows that you will "put it on him" but he puts on the act like it "just happened". Whatever. His attitude in all this is one of entitlement and arrogance. You are stroking his ego more than his "stick", trust me. If this realization ever hits you, you'll be disgusted with him. You won't *love* him less, you'll just see his motives more and it might just free you enough to walk away.

[jj33]

Thanks NID you put it better than I did. Particularly the comment about punishing with his guilt. They all do that (or the one I was involved with did). Its a bad bad cycle.

[NoIDidn't]

Thanks NID you put it better than I did. Particularly the comment about punishing with his guilt. They all do that (or the one I was involved with did). Its a bad bad cycle.

 

I'm learning from the best (you).

 

I was the OW to my ex until I heard he was getting married. He did the guilt punishment thing to the hilt. And I was much like KG in that relationship. He made me feel like a Sex Goddess. And then would say "we have to stop this, what about XXXX. I owe her". Or would disappear for a couple of days so that he could give her some attention or redirect her suspicion.

 

Its such an ugly cycle. I can't say that I regret going through it, though. Its what you have to do to learn how to get off the roller coaster. KG is far more emotionally involved than I was, though, but I still have confidence that she will get out while she still has time.

[KismetGirl]

Not about KG.

 

Regardless of attractiveness, I think this is true for just about all women (somebody for everybody, type thing).

 

About KG.

 

Being able to seduce a MM really isn't a great achievement. Truth is, he's basically hinted at in his agreement about your low and high sex drive comment, he really wants it more FROM HER.

 

He takes what you give him and then punishes you with his guilt. Is that worth going through any of this for? Push - pull. Push - pull.

 

What's most offensive is how he knows that you will "put it on him" but he puts on the act like it "just happened". Whatever. His attitude in all this is one of entitlement and arrogance. You are stroking his ego more than his "stick", trust me. If this realization ever hits you, you'll be disgusted with him. You won't *love* him less, you'll just see his motives more and it might just free you enough to walk away.

 

I dont really think seducing most men is that difficult or an achievment.....as Chris Rock said "Men are only as faithful as their options. We might not go after it, but if it chases us, we just can't run that fast."

 

Alas, Im kind of inclined to believe that lately. Yes, I think I'm better looking than his wife, and Im pretty sure he's much more attracted to me than her, but I don't think he wants to have more sex with her because it's HER. I think it would just make his life easier. I think he WISHES he was more attracted to her and that he didn't like me, because then he wouldn't have this guilt issue or A issue, but the sad truth is that there is nary a spark between them and that's something he's lamented about before me and him hooked up, and before he had three kids, and only 2 years into their marriage when i first met him. this wasn't some situation where after ten years and three kids and piles of diapers everywhere that all of a sudden they lost their passion and excitement for each other. I think they never had it, and I think that's why me and him have lasted so long. So people ask me "well why did he keep having kids?" Well, cause this affair has only become more emotional in the past year, and he likes kids, and wanted more of them, and I really dont think he thought that far ahead to think "hmmm, im not IN love with my wife, so maybe I shouldnt have more kids now." You give men too much credit if you think they contemplate that far ahead.

 

He never ends things because he wants to go back to her. He ends things usually only when he's almost caught because he's not ready to give up his way of life...there's a difference. I never said his actions weren't selfish. I'll be the first to admit it- he's a cakeeater. Hell, he admits it took. He has the best of both worlds. Everyone argues about the reason, whether its kids, stability, history with his wife, not wanting to hurt her , whatever, but whatever the reason he isn't ready to mess it all up yet. I swear, whatever selfishness, whatever , that he exhibits, the ONE thing I appreciate is that he never lies to me. IF I ask, he will tell me whatever the honest answer is. I just don't always ask, because I honestly don't always want to know.

 

but trust me, of all the things I've said, I never said it was some great feat to seduce him or any other man. men aren't really that complicated when it comes to sex are they...

 

And of COURSE he gets an ego boost out of it. Im not an idiot! After being at home with someone that, at best, has sex with him out of some duty and looks like she's bored the whole time, to someone who adamantly expresses how desirable she finds him and probably does way more sexually than his wife does with him, well of course , if I was him I'd feel pretty damn ego-boosted too. I've always been that way. Even with my ex of like four years, even when I was bored with him and wasnt really in love with him our sex life still rocked. It's an important part of a relationship to me. It doesn't appear to be an important thing to his wife, which is ok to some people I guess. Sex just isn't important to everyone, and it has nothing to do with her kids or stress level, she's been that way since they got married. :::insert comments from people telling me he is lying to me about his wife's disinterest in sex to get in my pants:::: ::::now insert my ubiquitous responses about how he doesn't have to tell me those things because I do them with or without him telling me:::::

 

I never said he was perfect, or that he is selfless, or an upright moral person. He , perhaps, shoudl be strong enough if he cares to know that the longer I stay in this, the mroe emotionally embedded I become, I'll give you that. Perhaps he should be stronger and let me go. But I do make it a bit hard for him sometimes....so I take my responsibility in this. Im at fault to an extent just like he is, we just have different responsibilities.....me to myself and him to his family, and I guess we are both superseding both of those.....

[jj33]

You are still focused on the wrong thing. Its not about looks. Its not about how seductive you are or how graet in bed you are

 

unless he is really that shallow.

 

And if he doesnt want to be with her because its her... then he doesnt love her and wtf is he staying for.

 

I think you are not as confident of yourself as you like to pretend you are, or you wouldnt be seeing it from that vantage point. Your beauty would be second nature and you wouldnt feel you had the upper hand on that basis.

 

You are a smart girl. You know that is not really what it is about. And if its just that sex istn important to her - do you really want to be the fill in on that basis?

[KismetGirl]

You are still focused on the wrong thing. Its not about looks. Its not about how seductive you are or how graet in bed you are

 

unless he is really that shallow.

 

And if he doesnt want to be with her because its her... then he doesnt love her and wtf is he staying for.

 

I think you are not as confident of yourself as you like to pretend you are, or you wouldnt be seeing it from that vantage point. Your beauty would be second nature and you wouldnt feel you had the upper hand on that basis.

 

You are a smart girl. You know that is not really what it is about. And if its just that sex istn important to her - do you really want to be the fill in on that basis?

 

Ack! No no, somehow I am not expressing myself the right way. i don't think it's just about looks, not at all. It's not like she's some hideous troll that he has to put a bag over her head just to get it up around her, jeez. He DOES love her, just not as one should love a wife, I think. He cares about her....just, i don't know, something is missing. Something.

 

Maybe I should just ask him wtf he is doing. I wonder what he'd say. He'd say something like "I like being with you, and I care about you, and the sex is great, but Im not ready to give up my family."

 

Im guessing the answer would be something along those lines. Am I better than that answer? Sure I am. Somehow that awareness hasn't made it easier to leave it alone. Sometimes Im not sure what the hell I need to get me there anymore shy of being interested in someone else. Or moving away so that I have no choice but to stay away from him, but I really can't move right now so that's not an immediate option. I dont know. Everyone has a different "breaking point" and unfortunately mine seems to be massively far away for some reason. I wish I could see what the hell it is already