Not changing

[EnigmasMuse]

Just a question I thought I would ask. It pertains to people changing, people who know they need/should change some things about themselves, and it could be for whatever reason(s).

 

Do you think its because some people simply do not care enough about themselves to want to change? Or even put forth the effort in trying to change some things?

 

For example, I see on here, where people are told they need to make changes within themselves in order to see change in their lives. (and I completley agree with that)And while you can't change another person, only yourself, that is what I am wondering. Do some people simply not care enough about themselves to want to change? Not only does it effect the person not changing things but it effects the people around them as well, like loved ones.

 

In a way I see it as them not caring enough, but in another way I see it as part of a selfishness too and maybe thinking too highly of themselves, because by not changing, they keep themselves where they wanna be. If that makes sense.

 

Thoughts??

[blind_otter]

Maybe they are just not on the same timetable as you are. A lot of times people do change - but only when they have reached a point where they realize, truly and deeply, that they need to change. It can take several years. For some, it can take a lifetime.

 

Sometimes familiarity is just more comfortable for whatever reason. Even though you know that the way you do things may not be optimal, it's what you know - and the unknown can be terrifying at times.

 

It takes a lot of strength and perseverence (more than anything else, IMO) to make a permanent and lifelong change.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that it is important to respect the process. Everyone's process is different. Everyone is traveling their own life's path and they are the ones who really deal with the burdens that are created by their choices. They are, ultimately, the ONLY ones who deal with the full brunt of the consequences of their own actions.

 

I think it's easy to sit back in judgment and point the finger of blame. But who has to live that life, really?

[EnigmasMuse]

I agree with what you've said.

 

My sister I believe has made it up in mind that her marriage is now a lost cause. She has been married to her husband for 16 years. They have had struggles just as anyone.

 

She was always the one that was the positive one in the relationship, and held out hopes for things and that the marriage would be ok with both people working at it. That's the problem it was her pretty much doing the work. She took a step back and told her husband she couldn't do it alone. So he is aware of this and has told her knows this, over and over and over again he knows this.

 

She knows from not just counseling, but over the years through experience that she had to change herself and her husband had to change himself. Nether could fix/change the other. The problem is, for the majority of her marriage, after all the counseling sessions and him being told, shown given the proper tools and guidance on what to do or how to go about it, he still has chosen to not make those changes within himself.

 

I say that he CHOSE not too, because according to what my sister says their counselor said, after years have gone by, and if someone was given the proper things they needed to take with them in life and as far as how to go about it, if after all that time, and still that person has not at least attempted to TRY to chanfge some things, then its no longer really about not knowing how, but about choosing to or not.

 

She knows she still has room to change some more things about herself and working on oneself is pretty much a never ending process, but I think she feels at least she has tried some things, where as he has not.

 

She told me she felt that he didn't care enoguh about himself to want to try to change, and that it also made her feel he didn;t care enough about her to want to change. But I guess, if one doesn't care or think that much of themselves then perhaps its hard to care about someone else.

[blind_otter]

It is true that if you feel that you are essentially worthless, then you probably won't try to change all that much because hey, you don't think you're worth it. It's the conundrum of the depressed person - too miserable to think that they are worthy of change, but desperately needing to change.

 

You know, I've thought a lot about failed marriages, especially since my own divorce. I found an old file cabinet while moving things around recently and the bottom drawer was filled with letters from my exH to me, around the end of our marriage several years ago. I looked back on those, and I realized that you shouldn't have to change to make your marriage work.

 

I think people do change and grow, it's a natural process. If you start out connected, and you stay in tune with your partner, then it naturally follows that for the most part, you guys will grow and change in the same general direction. If you become very disconnected, or were never really that compatible to begin with, then it makes sense that you would get to the point where you are even more disparate than you were when you started.

 

It's just a theory of mine. I have always said, though, that when you spend all your time talking about "the relationship" then the chances are that there really is no more relationship to salvage.

[EnigmasMuse]

"It is true that if you feel that you are essentially worthless, then you probably won't try to change all that much because hey, you don't think you're worth it. It's the conundrum of the depressed person - too miserable to think that they are worthy of change, but desperately needing to change."

 

I think this is agood part of it right here. He doesn't feel he is worthy. He has a really negative attitude about things. he has told her before, he doesn't try because he feels it will not matter. So with that mindset I guess it wont. He was taught alot of things on relationships, because he didn't have a decent teacher. So alot of what he does/doesn't do stems from that.

 

My sister told me that alot of his problem was his parents. She knows that because of their choice it effected him and how he deals or doesn't deal with relationships. She said she loves his folks dearly and even though she knows she can't change his past or his parents, their is a big part of her that wishes she could just scream at the top of her lungs at them and say, "Look at what you both have done to your kid(s) by staying together!" Even his mother made the comment before she wondered what life would have been like had she left...I think it effected her kids more by her staying than maybe if they had divorced.

 

Long story short. They have been married close to 50 years, his mother is a unhappy woman, however she chose to stay married to a seriel cheater, a blamer, a drinker, someone who was never home and not a good role model/father figure to his kids.

 

Of course nothing we can do about that now. Her husband though has been told that even though his parents were the way there were/are doesn't mean he has to be like that, but like you said, I think he knows he needs to change but maybe is comfortable with how he is, Change is scary for alot of people. The was crying on the phone with me just yesterday saying, the sad part of it all was, she thought it was a marriage that could have been really good had he just wanted to do his part, and actually tried to do it.

[JackJack]

I think there is alot of truth of it being pretty much a choice to try and change or not.

 

I also believe kids grow up to pretty much mimic what their parents taught them or what they know or do not know, and you're right, no matter what happened as a child, HE will have to eventually either make it up in his mind he wants to work on himself or not.

 

If he is depressed or finds nothing matters anyway, then that is going to be a hard call on him changing. Seems some where along the way (probably by his parents) he was taught, or made to feel that nothing mattered no matter what people did or didn't do. He had a father who did all these things and a mother who allowed or helped to enable alot of it.

 

I think if he chooses not to try to change, then really your sister is doing the right thing, in thinking she needs to make some kind of move on something. The way I see it, it all boils down to how long a person is willing to wait, hold on to or hope that another person will do their part. If after 16 years she is still not seeing results, then she probably wont after another 16 years. Not saying its not possible, because I'm sure it is, but one has to wonder sometimes.