When to say "I Love You"

[zenith]

you can show her that you like her, through action

 

talk is cheap

[d0ll]

Thanks for all of your replies. I do like this girl, but I obviously have the sense not to tell her on the first date that I love her or anything like that. Honestly, I don't know her well enough to say that I "Love" her. I think I may be in love with the idea of being in love with her, but I can't really say that I love her truthfully (at least not right now). Having never been on a date, I just wanted to see what others opinions/experiences were in this area. I agree with Ryan that I might be playing on the safe side by waiting for her to say it first, but I just don't want to wait too long and have her think that I am not interested.

 

yeah, just wait until you're in an actual relationship with her

& it's actually longer then 2 months

[RRyan65]

Andy, keep this in mind also; There are many many (too many to mention) things you can do for her to let her know you are interested. Okay, the "I Love you" first rule can be bent, and a guy saying I love you first doesnt 100% doom the relationship. But if you are going to bend the rule, you better make sure that this chick has not said I love you first due to the fact that she digs you way too much.

 

 

And BTW, Im familiar with the love the idea of being in love feeling.

[Tomcat33]

My initial post leaves rooms for the exceptions if you read it carefully. However, in my experience and seeing many many of my peers being steppped on by women by giving in too early, IN ADDITION to common male advice (male "self-help", which by the way is not chauvinistic), says that todays male has a tendency of giving his heart and soul too early.

 

 

It's because they dont have anything else to give that women cant get for themselves. This is under same social class settings.

 

If you really ponder it, it makes sense. OP falls straight into this category.

 

 

Fine your initial post sounded more angry and insulting than anything else, there was no need to end it as you did (with an insult on the OP) or to insult women on here.

 

 

You see that's the problem right up there, "male self-help" self-help crap is simply that CRAP. A lot of the self-help garbage that is splattered all over the Internet these days is not even published by credited sources, it is some LOSER guy or WOMAN who has struck out all their lives and their only consolation is to make a big buck by preying on the desperations of those in similar situations as they were all their lives. They find some "innovative" new tactic that is appealing to those people of below average life experience and who are filled with desperation, for the simple fact that THEY HAVE NO EXPERIENCE. This is what is causing all the MAJOR confusion this generation is going through. I am in my 30s so not like I super than you and sure we used to read crap too but let me assure you we did not mark our every moves on the internet for commoners to hyper analyze and tell us what was BEST for US to do in our every single move. WE LIVED LIFE, we took chances. We went out there and did crap we hit our heads against the wall we took risks we were not in this constant search for answers before we even took a foot forward. We just went out and tried to find the answers through our actions. We met people out and about and we turned to family and friends to ask them what they thought when we were at a cross roads. Now a days people have become so CRIPPLED by their own fears and MASSIVE insecurities that they have 0 faith in their abilities, 0 faith in their power of choice 0 faith in their own self worth, and are SO POLLUTED into thinking that life has change SO much when in fact it hasn't we are still the same people inside. Our minds are turned to mush from all the trash we ingest.

 

A lot of you guys wanna know how build self esteem. Go out and live life, bang your head against the wall and give it your all, really go for it and put your heart on the line when the bets are in your favour and take the ride, and learn along the way, THAT'S how you become self aware and intelligent to the opposite sex and how you ultimately learn most about you.

 

Women still want the same things men still want the same things what HAS changed is how we express our needs to one another and that is all a product of the complete garbage WE choose to ingest when we google half the crap that we google in self-help land.

 

You talk about how the male tendency today is to give his heart and soul because that is the only thing he can give that women don't already have ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Since when is it THAt different now then when our parents were dating, I mean seriously what is it that we women have more of today and men have less of, that our parents didn't?

 

I don't know how the rest of the world was 25yrs ago in North America but in my world, women worked men worked too, sure women have MORE today but it was the same, and guess what women loved a gentleman a guy who will impress her if you will, and men still liked the same things back then as today (whatever it is you men like). Women have not changed in the least in that respect, women still want to be impressed and wowed. Your job as a guy is learn what woman is worth your time and heart and which one is not.

 

What HAS changed, and I will give you this, is that women have become far more superficial, we want more superficial things and that has changed we have the same superficial needs that men used to have. But other than that women still want to be treated like women and want the man to be the man.

[andrewrost3241981]

Ok. I will definitely try to keep that in mind.

[SoulSearch_CO]

Wow - I definitely do NOT agree that the man saying, "I love you" first makes him a pansy. I think it takes a certain amount of bravery and risk to be vulnerable like that. I think you're chicken-**** if you feel it, but can't say it.

 

I also agree with the other women that the guy should say it first. If I have to take the lead in saying "I love you," then I guess I'm having to take the lead in everything else...and THAT boy would be considered weak, IMO.

[RRyan65]

Well, I hate to break it to you Tomcat, especially since you took a hell of a lot time and effort to reply, but things have changed since our parents started dating and even more so from their parents.

 

Women and men play totally different roles today. There is absolutely no question or debate about this. And if you live in the US and want to argue this fact, argue with someone who's less educated than I.

 

It's well known that career-oriented persons sacrifice thier personal relationships to develop professional ones. In the past men were overwhelmingly the majority of the workforce and women had no choice (although "no choice" wasn't how it was viewed) but to marry and play the role of housewife. Not all, but a lot. And if they did work, they sure weren't in job positions of power in the sheer numbers they are today. I'm talking from turn of the 20th century and back to probably the 1970's this was the trend.

 

 

Why did women play this role? Women played this role throughout history, because in all of nature we can see the nurturing instinct that is programmed into the female gender to propogate their species. It is essential for this, otherwise we'd have a lot more dead babies. It's perfectly natural for women to play the mother role. But the roles of women have changed only relatively recently. Think about it, woman are damn near side-by-side with men professionally in the last 20 years compared to the past 4000 years. Thats a damn recent change.

 

Its a womans OBLIGATION to be a mother for the sake of survival of the human race. No matter how much of an individual you think you are, you have a role to play in nature. Its your choice whether you want to play it or not. You have that right to choose, however. I am not at all being demeaning to women. But if you think that women's role is to provide for the family and the males role is to somehow take care of the baby, then sure, that might work today since we no longer do physical labor. But again, its a warped society we're living in now, therefore it is not the same. What am I getting at? Society and roles have changed.

 

 

So, given these facts, have womans WANTS (we wont call them NEEDS)changed? Well. To my understanding women are driven to attraction by wants a lot more than they will admit. What is it about the initial attraction to powerful, rich men? To want to be provided for. What is it about the initial attraction to physically fit, or tall men? To want to be protected. These haven't changed. Yet.

 

However, nowadays more and more women are more powerful themselves and have their own bankrolls. So, women can initially rule out guys who used to be pretty good suitors. They mainly do this by, eliminating guys who make less then them from the dating pool. Women, naturally dont want to be the sugar mama. They want to be provided for and protected, AND THATS OKAY. But given the fact that women can provide for themselves better these days, that leaves less and less leverage for guys.

 

I wish I could quote studies that have been done that have demonstrated the immense amount of pressure young male adults go through these days due to the fact of increased competition from women in the workforce. It's the main reason men no longer marry at 18-20 yo as often as they did. At 18-20 they aren't good suitors. They now need to go to college to keep up.

 

What am I getting at once more? Men have less and less to offer these days, and women can be, AND ARE more and more choosier.

 

Men no longer hold the NATURAL POWER (dont equate this to abusive wife-beater) they rightfully should hold in society. And hey, fine by me because I'm not having that hard of a time myself (my hearts been broken, but whose hasnt?).

 

So to wrap up all this blabber into one package: Men have been reduced to half of what they used to be. Not individually, but as a whole. This change has happened extremely recently, and men have yet to have adapted to it. My generation was born into this new society, and are having an extremely difficult time dealing with relationships (50% divorce rate anyone?). Marrying at a young age in the past had nothing to do with the resilience of a marriage. Today it does. Why? Because women don't need a man who cant be a man. A man who is a damn pansy and the only way he figures he can keep her is by catering to everything HE and SHE thinks SHE wants. It used to be you had no choice to stick by your provider.

 

So you can write this off as a bunch of hoop-lah because it may not ever apply to your curent relationship, or any other relationship you've had, but it is absolute truth.

 

Guys, look at the women on this thread. They almost unanimously feel entitled to be told "I love you" first without even giving an explanation as to why this is supposedly a man's obligation. I thought women were the emotional creatures? Instead, they are displaying a sense of entitlement that men do not dare display themselves, and what are we supposed to do about it? Agree with them of course!

 

I mean look at Tomcat. Shes been a total bitch to me all the while Ive tried to refrain from personal attacks on her and to women in general. Sure I mentioned that there are desperate fat chicks out there, just as there are desperate fat dudes also. Is that demeaning?

 

I'm nothing but an absolute gentleman to women and cater to their NEEDS, not WANTS. I realized my past relationship turned into a pleasing the woman fest right before the girl dumped me. But during the period I was confident in my manhood, independent and treated her like a lady, she couldnt get enough of me. Once I catered to her every whine and bitching, any other single, independent guy looked better than me. Thats why I look so good now.