zhsoj Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I've been on 4 dates over the last 2 weeks with this girl I met online. Except for the initial contact I've done all of the initiating (which is out of character for me). I think things have been going well, I do like her quite a bit, I would like things to continue, I think I've been clear about my intentions through my actions in everything except for the physical. I just can't bring myself to really touch her, though I'd really like to and I believe it wouldn't be completely unwelcome. It just me being shy/nervous/anxious/spineless. It's not something I can see myself overcoming within the next date... or anytime soon really. Left to me "the relationship" seems to be going nowhere fast so I'm considering not initiating the next contact. To me it seems that if she was interested enough to overcome my lack of a backbone she would initiate the next contact. Am I nuts for not pursuing more? On the one hand I know that I should continue to pursue until rebuffed if I'm interested. On the other I know that this is usually a turn-off for most women and I feel like **** for not being able to overcome it (yet).
JennaGennaro Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Coming from an old-fashioned girl who likes the guy to make the romantic moves, I agree that a lot of girls do get turned off. I went on this date with a guy that was unbelievably shy and I was shy so it made the whole thing very awkward. I couldn't go on another date with him. I can't comment on online dating because I have never had to do it, but I was under the impression that the women on there were a little more aggressive so I would think she should be giving you signs that she would like you to touch her. What is her body language like? I also don't know about you having to do all the initiating, but then again, I am old-fashioned. The only time I would actually do the initiating in dating is when the guy had me hooked, but backed away and made me show my interest so I would come after him.
LovieDove24 Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I am beginning to feel not so nuts after reading all the posts here on LS. Navigating the awkward beginning stages can be very difficult. Sometimes I feel like if we dont "click" and ride smooth from the beginning it ain't gonna work. But again, thanks for your addition to calm my nerves. With that being said, yes it is a tricky time. If you are anxious about getting physical/showing emotions it can be even trickier. Personally I know how you feel. Why not get out now before you can get really hurt? Shes not calling so she must not be interested? Wrong. If she's been on four dates with you, shes interested. Honestly I think this deserves a little more effort. To be honest if a guy I were seeing did not at least put his arm around me, kiss me or any of that by the fourth date I wouldn't stay interested. BUT THATS JUST ME. It doesnt obviously bother her so keep on keepin on. And go ahead and call her again, even if she doesnt. It at least shows emotional interest if you cant do the physical stuff yet. And next time you go out with her grab her hand in public. Do somethin.
JennaGennaro Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I agree. Four dates in two weeks is something and it does seem she is interested. Human beings are hard to read. I'm glad I am married and not in the dating pool, but all these questions make me lament for the fact that I didn't have access to the internet back then. Maybe things would have been easier, but I doubt it. Dating is not easy. I agree with the last post too, you should do something like touch her hand or make sure you are making really good eye contact to show you are interested.
39388 Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I have the same concerns and questions as the OP for when I eventually get into a relationship. I want to show affection but am afraid of waiting too long and afraid of doing it too soon. There certainly are relationship ending consequences for both. I want to confiendtly show the woman at the proper time, but I have no idea even when or how to begin and what pace to go. What order to do things in? Touch the hand, then arms around her, then kiss and how far apart and on what date and how do I pcik up hints from her as to when. Maybe she would give me some obvous hints by touching me or something, but I have no idea. I'd have to think by the 5th date the OP should start the physical stuff. How fast to start is the question. I am very poor (even for a man) at reading people and the OP might be the same way.
gopher Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 The last woman I dated wouldn't even let me hug her....I asked after the first date and she said no. I was a tad stunned...She said when she started, she couldn't stop and that she would tell me when. We went out another few times and she never did, so we went our separate ways. I met her online too by the way. My advice would be to bring the subject up. If she is still seeing you, there is something there.
Author zhsoj Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 I can't comment on online dating because I have never had to do it, but I was under the impression that the women on there were a little more aggressive so I would think she should be giving you signs that she would like you to touch her. What is her body language like? I wouldn't say aggressive. The only signs that I have recognized were a few pregnant pauses on the last 2 dates after I walked her to her car. But then I have no prior experience with any of this so I really am not sure. It at least shows emotional interest if you cant do the physical stuff yet. And next time you go out with her grab her hand in public. Do somethin. Ugh... I've thought that... I've thought that and then realized later that I had my hands firmly planted in my pockets... It's a serious mental block that is going to take some time to understand. I agree. Four dates in two weeks is something and it does seem she is interested.... ...I agree with the last post too, you should do something like touch her hand or make sure you are making really good eye contact to show you are interested. That's what I thought as well. I was expecting to be rejected from the get-go... It surprised the hell out of me that she agreed. And she continues to completely baffle me when she keeps agreeing... As for eye contact, I know I have a problem maintaining eye-contact in normal situations, so I've made it a point to make and hold it. I think I've done pretty well.
39388 Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 My advice would be to bring the subject up. If she is still seeing you, there is something there. I think many men wish they could, but I have read in numerous places that many if not most women do not want this. I have read that many women find that men who do this are wusses, for lack of a better word. They usually want you to do the physical stuff, not talk about it. Not even a hug after 4 dates seems like there is something wrong. A kiss on a first date sounds very quick to me, but then again many people seem to do that. Very tricky to figure out when to start.
seamaid Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 How's the tension between you two? How's her body language? Does she attempt to sit near you? Does she move in a seductive way at all? Does she lean toward you? Does she fidget from time to time, crossing, uncrossing her legs, touching her arms, her thighs, etc? Those are all POSSIBLY subtle invitations for physical contact. Have you been to the movies together yet? Perfect environment for getting her to lean against you and play with handholding, caressing lightly, as though it were perfectly natural. Good luck!
carhill Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I don't know if you want advice from an old fart, but, IME, the only way to show affection towards a woman you're attracted to is to show affection. I'm physically non-sexually affectionate with women I barely know if I sense a rapport between us. I'm not "hitting" on them, rather showing them physically that I enjoy their company and value the depth they've brought to a moment in time. They can choose to accept or reject that appreciation. Romantically, women are comforted by a man showing his affection for them. When your hands are in your pockets and your eyes are not on hers, she's unsure. An unsure mind says "no" Women are very good about directing the content of affection if the man makes the first move. The key is to be polite and not to take little rejections personally. If the woman turns her head when you go to kiss her, give her a firm kiss on the cheek, look in her eyes, smile and continue on like nothing happened. Confidence. Embrace her lightly but firmly. Don't grope. Caress. Leave her wanting more. She can't do it to herself, you know OK, back to breathing attic dust. Hope your day goes better than mine
Author zhsoj Posted January 27, 2009 Author Posted January 27, 2009 What order to do things in? Touch the hand, then arms around her, then kiss and how far apart and on what date and how do I pcik up hints from her as to when. I was a bit concerned about correct order at first. At this point I couldn't care less. If I could get over the basic hurdle I think I could manage the rest. How's the tension between you two? How's her body language? Does she attempt to sit near you? Does she move in a seductive way at all? Does she lean toward you? Does she fidget from time to time, crossing, uncrossing her legs, touching her arms, her thighs, etc? Those are all POSSIBLY subtle invitations for physical contact. Have you been to the movies together yet?... The tension? I'm not sure what that means really. We seem to talk easily enough. It's not great, there are weird pauses sometimes, but overall I think it's okay. Better than I usually do with new people at least... She will sit next to me, but usually we sit across the table from one-another. I'm not sure if she moves in a seductive way; does that happen outside of TV & Vegas? I don't think she fidgets much; sometimes she seems a bit shy, other-times not at all. We haven't gone to a movie yet due to difficult schedules. I don't know if you want advice from an old fart, but, IME, the only way to show affection towards a woman you're attracted to is to show affection. I'm physically non-sexually affectionate with women I barely know if I sense a rapport between us. I'm not "hitting" on them, rather showing them physically that I enjoy their company and value the depth they've brought to a moment in time. They can choose to accept or reject that appreciation. ... OK, back to breathing attic dust. Hope your day goes better than mine Actually Carhill I was hoping you'd respond. I value the contributions you've made to other threads very much... Unfortunately I dislike what you're saying. I respect it, but I'd much rather prefer reality were different. If it were my current situation would be far less frustrating.
addidas Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 @zhsoj i used to be like that. afraid to go for the kiss when on a date. once you get over the fear of initiating that first kiss it's really not a big deal, you can do it more early on in dating, more often with other girls you date here's a tip. the key is to not go for that first kiss without prepping up the mood a bit. get her into that aroused state before kissing her like offering to read her palm this initiating physical contact is not too intrusive, lowering your voice, showing confidence like u do this all the time (but since you're nervous you can tell her something like "hey i like hanging out with you, i just want you to know that but i don't do this all the time so bear with me but i just wanted to say that i respect you" or something along those lines), get in close but don't kiss, stay at the moment and then... then you go for the kiss, keep it light, don't smudge a big fat kiss at first. pull back and then go back to a normal conversation. act like its all cool keeping doing this once in awhile and pretty soon, by gauging her comfortableness you can bring it up a notch each time until it's not initiating for first kiss, but sex. sometimes, if the girl is experienced and all goes well, she will initiate sex for you.
carhill Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 OP, just so you know, what you're experiencing is likely age related. I had the same difficulties when younger. Also, I've noted women are markedly different, based on those I've known a generation or more and have seen the changes. As we age, we become more comfortable, know who we are, what we want and are more comfortable expressing and receiving such expressions. In time, you'll like my advice more
Lauriebell82 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 WHY are you scared of initiating physical contact? I mean think about it. Are you scared she will reject you? Do you think she will think you are trying to just get in her pants? Do you think she'll get mad at you? Four dates in, I'd AT LEAST want some kind of hand holding or the guy putting his arm around me. Just something to show that he is into me. If you are having a hard time then maybe you can ask her if you can hold her hand or hug her. If she says yes, then you can have an easier time initiating contact because you won't feel shy anymore.
Author zhsoj Posted January 27, 2009 Author Posted January 27, 2009 keeping doing this once in awhile and pretty soon, by gauging her comfortableness you can bring it up a notch each time until it's not initiating for first kiss, but sex. sometimes, if the girl is experienced and all goes well, she will initiate sex for you. Haha. I think I may need baby steps... Maybe start by getting closer, then someday work my way to touching her shoulder, then if all goes well I might hold her hand... Oh this will end poorly... OP, just so you know, what you're experiencing is likely age related. ... In time, you'll like my advice more I hope so. I have a little less than 15 years till "40 Year Old Virgin" Anyways, it sounds like I would indeed be nuts to back off... Not that I didn't already know I was neurotic . Hopefully my ineptitude doesn't come off as anything cruel. I guess I'll continue until she tires of me. In the meantime I'll work on sewing my pockets shut .
carhill Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Think about it...you're mid-20's and have this phobia about being physical with females. You look around and see the ease with which your peers handle all these things and it eats at your psyche, locking you up even more. Been there, walked that path, examined the rubble Do you want to listen to me or do you want to be 50 (like I'll be in a couple months) and look back and say "what an idiot I was"? Your choice
my body is a cage Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 maybe wait a couple of days and see if she contacts you, if not try one more time, and then wait for her to contact you. you know, make her wonder if shes losing you by not showing enough interest, if she is in fact interested. she should be understanding if she knows youre shy and nervous. and also, the fact that she has not initiated anything does not mean shes not interested. she might be really traditional and think that you should be contacting her, or unsure of how you feel about her if youre really shy. you could also try just telling her how you feel? good luck!
Still Trying Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 put in some more effort! Women WANT to be pursued, and only a small percentage IME, will bother pursuing you unless they really really are into you or you've already shown them something they really want. You don't have to start big, like others have said just start with small touches. Holding hands is an amazing intimate experience, you should try it. Get to where you are feeling a little more comfortable with her and perhaps let her know that you have some intimacy issues (we all do!) if she has already been on 4 dates, I agree, she likes you. Bring the girl some flowers, hold her hand, and remember rejection really isn't the worst thing in the world. (now I'll go follow my own advice maybe?) good luck, but yes, pursue this girl, you're crazy if you don't!
Author zhsoj Posted January 27, 2009 Author Posted January 27, 2009 @Lauriebell82, There is no rational reasoning to it. I just stop functioning. It's not like I have trouble hugging family and friends. Or shaking hands with colleagues. Not that I grew up in a very touchy-feely family, but I can do it. And sometimes I can even initiate it. So no, it would be pointless to examine /why/ I can't do it, as it is irrational. It's not the first irrational anxiety I've dealt with. Prior to this I had never asked anyone out. Now that I've done that I'm pretty confident that I could ask out a total stranger again. It still wouldn't be easy or natural, but it would be a lot easier than it was the first time. This isn't the first anxiety I've dealt with. I've become used to slowly tackling them. Eventually given the right opportunities and enough time, I will get over it.
39388 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Haha. I think I may need baby steps... Maybe start by getting closer, then someday work my way to touching her shoulder, then if all goes well I might hold her hand... Oh this will end poorly... I hope so. I have a little less than 15 years till "40 Year Old Virgin" It seems like you definitely want to touch her shoulder and put your arm around her on the next date. If she likes that you might want to kiss her soon. It is so easy to know what to do, but much harder to actually do it. You, like me, seem much more likely to do not enough of the touching and kissing on a date rather than too much. For any phase, the first time is the hardest.
Author zhsoj Posted February 8, 2009 Author Posted February 8, 2009 As an update... I'd say it has most certainly ran its course. Went on two more "dates", this last one being to a movie. When I asked if she'd like to do dinner she wasn't sure and then about an hour later texted to say she couldn't tonight; or at all this weekend. Later I found out she'd gone straight home and logged into the dating site (by the site's time stamp... I know, kind of underhanded). So I'm sure now she has someone better to spend her time with. What I don't understand is why she is keeping me around. I'd much rather be told straight out she has no interest then to tear myself up by feeling guilty about not being able to be close. Maybe there are some signals that were supposed to clue me in gently that I missed or something. I have no idea... Oh well, now I just have to figure out how to cancel the flowers before I make an even bigger fool of myself. :-\ So... Now that I know this is a problem for me, and that just going out isn't likely to help me get over it, I'm wondering just what exactly I should do to attempt to rid myself of this. I don't imagine there are any professional therapy sessions meant to fix this If only the alcohol companies could deliver on their promise...
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