movingonandon Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Well, I haven't been here in a long while (and that's a good thing!) --> supposedly recovered from a breakup and currently dating. My ex of 5 years dumped me in summer for somebody else (though she now denies it). We certainly had problems (due mostly to me being an overbearing and fatherly pain in the azz), and her emotional neediness (i did not understand the magnitude of the problem until after the break up !). Anyway, the point is that I am prety sure that if it wasn't for her "crush", we'd still be working things out. So, fast forwad to present day. She has started calling me and hingint at her desire for a second chance. And that's the problem - "hinting". I would welcome and entertain the thought since I still miss her, but something seems profoundly wrong about the way she goes about it. Specifically, the conversations we've had have revolved mostly arout her - how she felt at the time she dumped me, how *she* thinks she made a mistake, how i *should* understand how she felt/feels right now. Post-break up, i've acknowledged multiple times my contribution to things to fall apart, to which she always responded with some grand words about how we could make it work. The problem is that during that all time, she's been dating that other dude. Basically she has called me multiple times *while still with him* to talk reconciliation and she didn't dump him even after I made it clear that it is pointless to talk until she does (finally he had to dump her --> because of her calling her ex all the time...). Anyway, ipretty much told her to leave me alone, which should bring me relief, but also depresses me a little - I'd be willing to give it a shot, but I would think that it is not unreasonable of me to expect from her that she'd forget about her motives for a second and try and put some sinsere effort in taking responsibility for her actions, admitting her part, understanding how this made me feel etc. Instead, she send me on quilt trips about how I am not "warm" and "loving" after she calls... Somehow she does not seem to comprehend that as a result of her actions that I've tried to move on, and that she'd have to deal with it in talking to me about recon... she's basically giving me lectures on how "it takes two..." to make it work. This is true, but in my mind at this point all the effort should come from her. Instead, I am getting blame about how come I am not more understanding... I guess that the main reason I'm posting now is to resist the urge to send her something nice. My last communication with her essentially said pretty sternly that she should either take ownership of her part in how things ended, or bug off... She might be a lot crazier than I thought, but one consequence is that I am begining to doubt my own judgement and to ask myself that maybe I am the one who's too prideful or unreasonable
SRV Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 She left you for her current bf, seems like things are not as rosy as she pictured that they would be. She is now contacting you whilst still with her bf that she is thinking of leaving for you. Get the picture, she did it to you, wants to do it to him, come back to you, if you take her back, what's to say that she will not do it to you again? Once bitten, twice shy, I would leave this one in the past, in its rightful place and not come close to it with a ten foot pole.
BCCA Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 She left you for her current bf, seems like things are not as rosy as she pictured that they would be. She is now contacting you whilst still with her bf that she is thinking of leaving for you. Get the picture, she did it to you, wants to do it to him, come back to you, if you take her back, what's to say that she will not do it to you again? Once bitten, twice shy, I would leave this one in the past, in its rightful place and not come close to it with a ten foot pole. Exactly. And I'll add that the best way to predict future behavior is by looking at past behavior. She seems to have a track record of relationship hoping, and carries little concern for the people she hops from. I can almost guarantee that if you got back together, she would do the same thing again. Stay away.
Author movingonandon Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 Thanks, and I generally agree with the past behavior being a serious indicator of future problems. That said, I think it is unfair to assume that people don't change or don't learn from their mistakes. Unfortunately, it does not seem that she has learned anything. she rationalizes it i her head that she was convinced our relationhsip was over and that's why she ended it. then 'accidentally' hooked up with that other guy, which cannot be true (though she did not technically cheat on me, she has developed some sort of feelings towards him) for at least 1-2 months pre-breakup. Then she says she realized she made a huge mistake, and wanted to come back. Up until this point I think I'd be receptive. But, she did not dump him immediately after this 'realisation' (instead continued to date him on and off, supposedly because she's ended things a couple of times, but he's been very persistent). But she did not dump him after i acknowledged that i might talk to her if she dumps him. and now she gets mad at me because I'm ambivalent and laconic with her... Weird... She talks as if she's the one who will make the decision about getting back together and that I should be pleased that she's willing to try again. Well, I am, but that's certainly not the main issue right now... I understand that all this sounds like a no brainer to stay AWAY from her, I just didn't want to miss even the smallest opportunity for a *healthy* reconciliation (not recon by any measn necessary - i could have done that...), if there is one at all. But probably not. she really acts very weird and seems to be very troubled (major problems in other aspects of her life). Too bad I still care about her .
BCCA Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I think its pretty fair to say a certain person ISN'T changing when theyre doing the same thing over and over. Can she? Sure, but she obviously is only interested in having her cake and eating it, too, and all she wants from you is your approval for her actions. You can see it yourself, she just gets mad when you point out the OBVIOUS flaws in her BS speach about making a mistake. Most people try and fix mistakes when they feel theyve made one, shes not. Shes still with this guy, and if I had to bet, she probably hasnt told him any of this 'mistake' stuff. She talks as though her decision is the only one that matters because she doesnt care about other people here. As far as shes concerned, youre either going to help her get her way or shell go elsewhere. She isnt trying to make things right and be good to you at all. Shes trying to use you, and its burning her up that youre calling her out. And the 'accidental' hookup...classic. Trust me, she fully intended to hook up with him, and was just waiting for the right time so she wouldnt be 'cheating'. lol ridiculous. Its funny how people's timing is so coincidental and then they play the 'accident' card. I can promise you she was working on that plan with this new guy for months, and pulled the trigger on dumping you only when he was officially on board. Selfish as can be. The thing is, you honestly cant reconcile with this girl. Her percieved value of you is so LOW, that she really doesnt care about how what she does makes you feel. Shes being a huge jerk right now, and you should absolutely cast her out of your life.
Libellule Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Ok! I`m in the same situation as you... although me... he cheated on me... and while I was pregnant too... Bottom line is you have to decide if you do want a relationship with her and put your pride aside to do so because pride gets in the way of one`s true feelings. You have to think if she is worth it to YOU. Also, you should step outside the box and look at the reasons why your relationship had issues in the first place... and then think if those problems can be resolved. No two people can be together if one holds a grudge against the other... and trust me... i know all abou holding grugdes and feeling hut and betrayed... You need to work at a relationship and although her going from one man to the other is stupid... it probably because she has needs and in all those relationship they arent getting met... and probabl werent met by you. But did you ever think that reason why you are so mad at her is because you are hurt and angry??? Wich is completely normal... but you need to think with your head and not your heart. I speak from experience and being you I would give it a second shot... but I would be vigilant and not go in there blinded but the hope of the relationship getting better. Think about you, and if you want her... work at it with her... but don`t be an ass about it and always bring back the past because if she really wants to make it also... you will only throw her off! And then history will repeat itself
Trialbyfire Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 moving, why are you talking reconcilation with your ex, when you're currently seeing someone else. You can't denigrate her for her actions, if you're doing the exact same thing.
premiumjet Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Have u talked to her on the phone or just texted? Talkin on the phone is better, u can fix any misunderstandings and such that way, and get a read of what she's meaning like u cant on texts.
Author movingonandon Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 This is actually pretty therapeutic . I'm not necessarily looking for validation of my fears/judgements, and not all of the above is true, but the gist of it is... And that's really the main problem - i don't think she sincerely tries to reassure me, she just gives me speeches, and i basically feel as if she tries to muscle her way back in, if subtly... Hupefully she pulls her **** together one day, for her own sake. I think that the hardest part of coping is remembering that no matter how bad the breakup, a person is not all black - no matter how crazy she handled it, and no matter how tempting it is to completely demonize her, this can't cancel the fact that she had many great qualities, was good to me, and basically I was pretty sure I'd marry her. And, I'm sure she still has those qualities, I just don't see getting around the messed up way she handles the thinning opportunities fo reconsiliation..
Author movingonandon Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 moving, why are you talking reconcilation with your ex, when you're currently seeing someone else. You can't denigrate her for her actions, if you're doing the exact same thing. Well, the difference here is that being the dumpee i had no choice but to move on, and for all intents and purposes leave that relationship in the past, which includes trying to date again. I do not proactively try to reconcile with her behind my current girlfriend's back, my ex is the one contacting me out of the blue (which my current gf was made aware of). so, what's the problem?
Author movingonandon Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 Have u talked to her on the phone or just texted? Talkin on the phone is better, u can fix any misunderstandings and such that way, and get a read of what she's meaning like u cant on texts. Yeah, talked on the phone. 50% of the conversations ended up in a disaster when I got pissed once i figured out she's still with that guy, the other 50% were calm, I asked questions (but then she got pissed at me for being so "dry" and "unloving" .
Author movingonandon Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 Ok! I`m in the same situation as you... although me... he cheated on me... and while I was pregnant too... Bottom line is you have to decide if you do want a relationship with her and put your pride aside to do so because pride gets in the way of one`s true feelings. You have to think if she is worth it to YOU. Also, you should step outside the box and look at the reasons why your relationship had issues in the first place... and then think if those problems can be resolved. No two people can be together if one holds a grudge against the other... and trust me... i know all abou holding grugdes and feeling hut and betrayed... You need to work at a relationship and although her going from one man to the other is stupid... it probably because she has needs and in all those relationship they arent getting met... and probabl werent met by you. But did you ever think that reason why you are so mad at her is because you are hurt and angry??? Wich is completely normal... but you need to think with your head and not your heart. I speak from experience and being you I would give it a second shot... but I would be vigilant and not go in there blinded but the hope of the relationship getting better. Think about you, and if you want her... work at it with her... but don`t be an ass about it and always bring back the past because if she really wants to make it also... you will only throw her off! And then history will repeat itself All good points. But I don't think I can just smile and say "well, ok". I understand that people make mistakes, and I'm willing and able to forgive. But, she needs to give me something to work with. Basically i had to pry the words "I'm sorry" from her mouth, which she had mentioned just once or twice, and in passing. I'm aware of my part in the problems, I certainly don't pretend to be the lamb here, but she needs to do the same, not just act on a whim and assume that just because she "feels" in certain way, this makes it ok to do whatever she wants without thinking about the consequences. So at this point the main reason for my ambivalence is not pride, but just that I don't see credible evidence of self-awareness and responsibility. Granted, my standards for these things might be unreasonable, but in any case, I don't think I can just close my eyes and hope for the best...
BCCA Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Moving, you said something that hit really close to home: just because she "feels" in certain way, this makes it ok to do whatever she wants without thinking about the consequences Friend, she sounds EXACTLY like my ex - run away, as fast as you can. People that can rationalize doing whatever they want because of how they 'felt' are dangerous. She doesnt come out and say sorry because she doesnt FEEL sorry for anyone but herself. You dont see her taking any responsibilty because she doesnt feel as though shes done anything wrong. She doesnt care, basically...if it was good for her, it should be good for you or too bad, right? It's like youre talking about my ex. If I can ask, and say no if you need to, did she mention anything about the cirstumstances surrounding how she left her other boyfriends? Was there anything you let go then that you can think of now thats probably a red flag? I remember I got a real dousy, she dumped a guy and slept with someone else the same night...because she 'felt' like it was good for her to get over him LOL
Author movingonandon Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 Moving, you said something that hit really close to home: just because she "feels" in certain way, this makes it ok to do whatever she wants without thinking about the consequences Friend, she sounds EXACTLY like my ex - run away, as fast as you can. People that can rationalize doing whatever they want because of how they 'felt' are dangerous. She doesnt come out and say sorry because she doesnt FEEL sorry for anyone but herself. You dont see her taking any responsibilty because she doesnt feel as though shes done anything wrong. She doesnt care, basically...if it was good for her, it should be good for you or too bad, right? It's like youre talking about my ex. If I can ask, and say no if you need to, did she mention anything about the cirstumstances surrounding how she left her other boyfriends? Was there anything you let go then that you can think of now thats probably a red flag? I remember I got a real dousy, she dumped a guy and slept with someone else the same night...because she 'felt' like it was good for her to get over him LOL Yeah, you're right --> i remember being able to relate to some of your own posts sometime this summer. as for your question - I don't have too much information, she was pretty young when we met (25) and had one serious (2 years) boyfriend before me (really nice guy), although she's been through a period of experimentation (10 guys or so per my estimates). I do know that she went out and made out with some other dude while still in a relationship with her last boyfriend. She didn't initiate it, but, she liked the guy and didn't stop it. So I guess I should have paid more attention to this, which i didn't, since supposedly this happened when her last relationship was winding down anyway, or they were de facto on a break or something... also, her boyfriend immediately before me was a certified scumbag and dumbass, which makes me think that she simply can't/doesn't want to be alone... I am glad that someone can relate, simply because obviously I don't advocate ignoring your feelings, but acting on such impulses and then being surprised at the consequences is childish. we all "feel" certain things at different times, but as adults do not act them out without carefully considering the implications and consequences, and most importantly - our underlying motives... Well, if you have any info, how is your ex doing with her life (I'll be trying to extrapolate...)? Mine is clearly a mess, but I still hope for the best for her...
BCCA Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 I havent spoken to my ex in months, and have no intentions to ever again. I'll try and explain why, because it directly ties in with what youre going through. See, people like our ex's who can rationalize anything they do with "thats just how I felt" are just dangerous people. What if she feels like being in a porn movie tomorrow or sleeping with some guy when shes out of town? Well, she doesnt have to feel guilty because she can rationalize it as 'well, I just felt like I needed to do that because..." and no matter what her reasons are, youre never going to argue anyone out of their apparent 'feelings'. My honest take on it is that its the sign of a selfish person. I can guess that most of her excuses start with 'I' and some other nonsense about what was good for her. And of course, being considerate of your feelings is not an option, because then she wouldn't be doing what she felt like. Basically, everything shes doing is because she feels like it. She knows, albeit deep down, that shes not being fair/nice/etc, but she doent want to feel guilty, so shes created this uncontrollable monster called her feelings, that lead her to do things she just cant control. Its manipulation and selfishness to the upmost. Here is what eventually happened with my ex, although way too late for my liking. As I started to call her out, she became defensive and flat out mean. She would intially keep trying to BS, but once I was dead set in not letting BS slide, she knew the gig was up. Where we are now, she knows she either owes me an apology, that I probably wouldnt accpet/answer, so shes content to make me out to be the jerk that doesnt want to be her friend. She'll never contact me again, I know that for a fact, just because I wont let her pull the wool over my eyes anymore. Yeah, the kissing the other guy when still with someone is a classic redflag that almost all of us with overlook. Yeah, she rationalized it with they were at the end, but I can promise you she didnt inform her current bf that they were at the end until after she made out with the other guy. And the lack of any and all guilt over it should tell you something. Please do what you want, but this sounds eerily similar to my situation and I dont want to see you get burned, too.
Author movingonandon Posted January 27, 2009 Author Posted January 27, 2009 As I started to call her out, she became defensive and flat out mean. She would intially keep trying to BS, but once I was dead set in not letting BS slide, she knew the gig was up. Where we are now, she knows she either owes me an apology, that I probably wouldnt accpet/answer, so shes content to make me out to be the jerk that doesnt want to be her friend. She'll never contact me again, I know that for a fact, just because I wont let her pull the wool over my eyes anymore. . Wow, that's *exactly* what's happening right now... Now all of a sudden I am the bad guy that doesn't show her support through bad times and most likely never really loved her that much to begin with... (In reality, though I shouldn't I'm actualy worried about her, but anyway...) Some of the craziest things I heard early on are "This was inevitable", "I though this would make us even" (i still don't know in what sense - I've never cheated on her), "I'd understand if your pride stays bove love" (passive-agressive), and the winner: "This unfortunate thing was a test that our relationship unfortunatley didn't pass", etc., etc, etc.... Well, I'm really glad I posted today... I still miss her, but I understand how it would be a huge mistake. Actually, these interactions really left a sour taste in my mouth, so even if she comes around, i don't think I'd really care.
Author movingonandon Posted February 10, 2009 Author Posted February 10, 2009 Well, I thought I'd provide an update, just because things took such a bizzare turn, IMO. So, shortly after I posted here, we started talking about he possibly visiting, so we could figure this out once and for all. I told her that I'd think about it a couple of weeks, particularly to figure it out schedule-wise, and most importantly - to decide if to do it at all given that now I have a girlfriend. So, she says me to take my time and let her know whatever I decide. Two weeks later, she sends me completely bizzare message, saying that basically she loves that other dude after all. No, she says, they're not together (he dumped her after he apparently got sick of her back and forth, her calling me etc.), she's single, but she still loves him. So it's her "gift of freedom" to me to let me know. WTF ! This is after 6 months of jerking me around, for the most part. (Not that I succumbed - in fact, for the most part I've been concerned that I might have been a little too harsh on her). But, eventually I agree to maybe talk it through in person, and that's what i get I can't say I'm disapointed - this really simplifies life for me, but I am utterly, completely, confused about what the F is going in her head. I know that she had some pretty hard times with family problems etc., but she's so vague and weirdly uncommunicative, that everything is possible... Anyway. At this point, all I hope for is that she doesn't destroy her life.
Author movingonandon Posted February 13, 2009 Author Posted February 13, 2009 Wow, she really f**d me up good this time - way more than I initially thought. Now, after all this crap, i basically miss her more than ever. At least when she was making her half-azzed attempts to come back I could get distracted with how messed up her thinking was. So, essentially what happened is that she spent almost zero time reflecting on her feelings, and lashed it all on me and on that other poor shmuck. She dumped me, hitched with the other dude, things weren't so great, she tried to come back, I didn't buy it, she got pissed, and now it is "well, I love that other dude after all" . Where does this leave me? Pretty much back where I was about 6 months ago, though not as bad. While I'm sure that there are some cases where 2nd chances actually work, I'm beginning to believe that the probability of success is so small that it simply does not justify the risk of going through any post-break up communication. I.e. consider it one more vote for total, and complete NC.
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