sid3 Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 This is a really weird situation. I started dating a woman around the first of December. We weren't intimate until the third week. A month or so is typically the norm for me. I don't mind waiting, in fact I'd say it's better when you do. Anyhow, the first time consisted of me going downtown, things didn't progress further because she told me God would be angry if we did IT..... HUH? Um, what about spending almost an hour making her moan. I guess God was ok with that. OK though, a no is always a no. So I didn't even attempt to change her mind. The next few nights were basically the same as the first. I didn't mind giving and not receiving. I think it was after the fourth night of this that around three or so in the morning we both half awoke and started doing it. Then again in the morning. No problems. Two adults who obviously care a great deal for eachother. So over the next few weeks, there have been close to a dozen times, more than half where just like in the begininng she is taken care of before things progress. I never heard another mention about God being angry. Last week was our first argument. Allowing my dog to sleep in the bed is something she disapproves of. OK, the dog sleeps on her dog bed when she is over. When shes not here, I don't see why it would matter where the dog sleeps. I'm willing to comprimise, my partner's happiness is important to me. So she calls to apologize, I tell her it's ok, I understand and no need to be sorry. The next nite she calls and again wants to apologize, I again tell her no problem, it's not a big issue. She already apologized and I'm ok. Apparently she concluded that I was still upset by her request. After a few minutes on the phone she says I'll call you tomorrow. So five days go by without hearing from her. I could have called during those days, I'll admit. But I waited until Saturday to call her.I asked her why she didn't call, she said she didn't want to upset me. Lame excuse, but so is mine for not picking up the phone myself. Everything seemed fine, I went over to see her. I invited her to come home with me and stay over. She said she had to get up early. So I agreed to have dinner with her the following night. While having dinner she tells me that she wants to wait until marriage before having anymore sex. I was too shocked to even ask if that ment only intercourse or if everything was off limits. I'm at the age where waking up next to your SO is just as nice as shagging them. I'm certain she knows I'm not only with her for sex. I have no idea what to make of this. I know she wants a husband, and she has told me once or twice that I need a wife:eek:. After knowing someone for a few short months and only dating for a few of them, what to make for dinner, thinking of fun dates and ways to show I care are the things I think about. I have no idea what to make of this. Could it be her clock is ticking really fast and she wants to move things along. Or is it just a test. I realise people are free to change their mind. I'm just really surprised, because there was no doubt she really enjoyed our intimate moments. Now if I decide I don't want to adapt to her lifestyle choice I'll probablty feel like a pig because I wanted sex in a exclusive relationship:mad:.. any insight would be appreciated
carhill Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I didn't mind giving and not receiving.Personal red flag. Unhealthy. Been there, living that marriage. Don't proceed further. Warning. Added: You need to change that perspective, IMO. You DO want reciprocation of intimacy. You DO have sexual and emotional needs which you expect to be met. You WILL communicate those needs. Overall assessment: She's not into you and/or has psychological issues. Incompatible. Next.
Geishawhelk Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 It is rumoured that Liz Taylor went on a cruise and took 496 pieces of baggage with her. Sounds as if this lady knocks her into a cocked hat. Oh jeesh, walk away.
LovieDove24 Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Hmm... I can honestly say that I can relate to what your woman is doing here. It sounds wishy washy, it sounds lame since you do truly seem to care about her for more than sex. BUT what I think it really boils down to is she didnt want to have sex with you until marriage to begin with. Then it happened, she liked it, went with the flow for a bit and then upon further review decided her original conviction was correct. I'm not saying its right, but women tend to change their minds...a lot. My suggestion? Talk to her about it. Ask her what has made her change her mind both times: the time she decided sex was ok at three in the morning and the time that she went back to wanting no sex. Get to the heart of the matter, really listen because there is far more going on here than just sex issues. It seems to me she feels insecure in her decision making skills. That is the part I can relate to. Next thing I would do? Ask her what you can do to help build the trust and security and then do it. I think she may have some issues with both of these things. That is the other part I can relate to. Best of luck!
2sure Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 She called you and apologized again because she didnt like your first response of accepting her apology . She wanted you to tell her it was all your own fault and that she didnt need to apologize. When you instead repeated your acceptance of her apology - she didnt call you for 5 days. She was pouting and punishing you. When you let her ignore you for those 5 days and didnt call her - she decided to punish you by withholding sex. Period.
Trialbyfire Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 It sounds like she's torn between sex and religious beliefs. Doesn't it make you wonder how far she'll take it, that sex is something to be ashamed of? Something to consider for the long-term.
Surfer Dude Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Sounds like one of those ladies who use sex for manipulative purposes and try to control the amount of sex in relationship, very unhealthy. Don't be tricked into this marriage, it will be a sexless marriage and you will become a miserable man posting here on LS about your wife not wanting to have sex. I suggest you move on and find someone who is fun to be with, isn't controlling and ultimately respects her partner.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 She called you and apologized again because she didnt like your first response of accepting her apology . She wanted you to tell her it was all your own fault and that she didnt need to apologize. When you instead repeated your acceptance of her apology - she didnt call you for 5 days. She was pouting and punishing you. When you let her ignore you for those 5 days and didnt call her - she decided to punish you by withholding sex. Period. Yikes, that actually kind of makes sense as a progression. OP, perhaps you should tell her that this is how her actions seem to you... and see how she responds.
Trialbyfire Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 If 2sure's description is correct, Holy Dinah! RUUUUUUUNNNNNN!! Communication in a relationship is key. If someone can't communicate over a simple first fight, imagine what will happen when you're fighting about something meaningful. Passive-aggressive people are crazy-making!
Author sid3 Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 After all these years I'm still amazed at how quickly women can change their minds.From what I've been told her reasoning is entirely based on what the bible says. I remember reading many parts of the bible that really don't make sense in today's modern world. I see it as her chosing her faith over the potential for a lasting relationship with me. Rejection stings. Who's to say if I were to someday marry her she wouldn't decide that God only wants people to have intercourse when making babies. To me at least, this seems to be a power play. I think by suddenly deciding no sex, she feel as if she is in complete control. At 39, I haven't learned everything about women, but I've picked up on a few things. So it seems she wants me to be her BF. I'm suppose to do all the things that a SO does, but if it isn't a physical relationship it seems like we'd just be friends with the promise of sex if we get married.Yet she wants me to be exclusive, which isn't a problem as it's all I have ever known since I first started dating. I can't picture myself happy in a committed relationship that was sexual at one time and regressed to only an emotional one. Honestly, sex with a new partner is kinda like getting a new bike, at first you want to ride it all the time, but once you've had it for awhile the novelty starts to wear off. I would be happy with the same bike, but if it was somehow broken or unrideable shouldn't I opt for a different one?As opposed to not having one. Having spent nine years with the same partner, I can reflect and know just how sex builds and sustains an emotional conection. I didn't die from no sex while being single, having my freedom must have kept me alive. Maybe I'm wrong but I just can't see giving your heart to a person that loves the bible more than the touch of her man.What amazes me the most is I've been taking care of my cancer striken mother by myself for the last eight years. I have given up career, my own happiness and most of my freedom to keep her out of a nursing home. I have tried to be the best son I can be, to this day. If God would be angry at me for having unmarried sex in a committed relationship, then I don't want to be a member of his club. I don't need a book to be a good person and know what truly matters in life. Spending time in the cancer ward really makes you think......Well she just called and wants to know if when I come over to talk about things later, if I would move her dryer because the appliance repair man is coming tomorrow. HUH, what would the bible say about that? When I heard her machines were broken, I told her she could come over and use mine. Six hours later I thought to myself WTF, dam that was alot of laundry. Sorry for the rant, that just kind of pisses me off. Normally I wouldn't care, I think I'm becoming bitter.
Surfer Dude Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 After all these years I'm still amazed at how quickly women can change their minds.From what I've been told her reasoning is entirely based on what the bible says. I remember reading many parts of the bible that really don't make sense in today's modern world. I see it as her chosing her faith over the potential for a lasting relationship with me. Rejection stings. I'd never spend time with a woman who cares more about the religious junk and societal garbage programmed into her, than the man she cares about. Let those ladies go back to their rulebooks, bibles, Cosmo mags etc. Seems like they're more eager to please the society than themselves and their SO.
Trialbyfire Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 So you're going to get bitter over one woman's issues and baggage? Look what you're doing with your mother. Isn't that far more meaningful than something as lame as this woman? As for women changing their minds all the time, not all women are like that. Some of us know what we want and are consistent, just like some men know what they want and are consistent. Just stay away from crazy-making people!
carhill Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 OP, see that brevity? It's really good stuff.
fral945 Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Do what I do: Don't date religious women. Sure, it limits the field drastically, but it saves headache in the long run. In your case, the sex thing is the tip of the iceberg. Run, run, run!!
Scottdmw Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I think there is a good possibility LovieDovie is right, that your woman originally wanted to wait till marriage but she went farther in the heat of the moment. What I'd suggest is you find out. Talk to her about her reasons and the surrounding thinking. Take some time to evaluate what she says until you're reasonably sure you understand. If she is just playing games by all means dump her. If on the other hand she really feels like waiting till marriage, I'd suggest you consider doing that if you find the relationship otherwise good. Speaking as one who is waiting till marriage, I can tell you it is not about somehow thinking that "sex is dirty", being brainwashed by religion or societal programming, or desire to control anyone. There are good reasons to wait, whether they are sufficient only you can decide (see some of my other recent posts if you're interested). Scott
Author sid3 Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 Well T, I'm becoming bitter about this particular situation. Not women in general. I know not all women are the same. Just like all guys can't be generalized as well. Disenchanted is probably a better word. Even though feeling rejected hurts, it goes away provided one doesn't allow it to make them bitter. Something I'll just have to keep reminding myself. The last girl I dated was uber religious. How I end up with em I haven't a clue. After some serious mind shagging from the ex, and a few months on the coping boards, I've concluded that extremely religious women are in fact broken in many ways. She too didn't want to have sex before marriage. The difference here is that we never did. Unfortunately I invested way too much for my own good. I learned alot from what I consider the worst relationship I was ever in. Even though there was no sex, it hurt more than any other. Anyhow, back to the current trainwreck, I think crazy maker sums it up quite nicely. I agree with the poster who suggested I'm being punished. Now I have to work on how I feel about having to walk away from this.I can sense the some guilt already. Last week things were fine, at least I thought they were. Now I just learned that I'm making God angry and he is going to punish me:lmao: That's funny, I wasn't the one pushing someone's head south on more than one occasion. Maybe in between the moaning and quivering she should have reminded me that I'm going to burn in hell. IDK Perhaps having to pick my naked mother up off the bathroom floor when she fell last week will save my soul. I do what I do because she is my mom. Not because some two thousand year old book says you should. It's really a bunch of horse sh*t. When my father needs me I am there, same with my brother and my neighbors. But no matter how good of a person I am, it doesn't matter. Ok, so when her son would of had to walk in the freezing cold it was ok for this wicked sinner to take time out of the middle of his day to give the kid a ride. Sorry,I'm just ranting. Even though I've apparently been cut off, I'd still do it again. I wouldn't want him to freeze or get frost bite. What about all the other single moms' kids that have to walk in the cold though. Maybe she wants to keep me around because I come in handy when she needs something. Wow, that makes me feel good. IMO, I don't care how good the sex is. It's not worth the head games that sometimes comes with it. I've suggested a break, telling her that I respect her lifestyle choices and that I hope she will respect mine and that some time to think would be a better idea than just reacting on emotions. Funny how when I mentioned that I thought I had a promising future with her and that she may in fact make a good wife someday there was a pause and change in her voice. Kind of like, oh sh*t I'm not so sure this guy is going to put up with my crap, I may have just totally ****ed things up. In my mind I think she has. Although my life is extremely tough right now, and I have burdens I'd never wish on anyone, I still somehow manage to feel goodmost of the time and thankful for who I've become.Maybe it's having to watch someone you love suffer that puts dating in a different perspective.It's just really starting to piss me off that a religious person comes along and tells me how I should and need to live my life.
Trialbyfire Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 It's not worth the head games This is your new litany sid! You're better off without someone who has issues, layering issues. If she were true to her faith and beliefs, her conviction shouldn't have allowed her to proceed the first time, nvm the rest of the times, then to pull back over where the dog sleeps? EEEEEKKKK! If you continue with this woman, it will be a life of "WTF?"!
Geishawhelk Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 sid3, I hope your mum is ok, and that she's recovered from her incident. I'm sorry you've had to go through what you went through, both for your family and this woman. She has more issues than you need to deal with, and they are after all, hers. She either has to see she needs to re-evaluate her own process and progress, or be forever stuck in no man's land with a foot in both camps. As for your dog sleeping on the bed, make sure it only gets up there when you say so. It mustn't take the initiative. Oh me, I'll pack it all into one post....I don't care!!
ColorCube Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 A slightly different viewpoint, She is doing a version of backburnering you, because of the few fights she is doubting the relationship you both have with each other. She is stopping the sex because there is another guy she is moving forward from backburner status to someone who she is possibly going to have sexual relations with. No matter how you look at this is is time to dump her, even if she isn't going to bang another guy she is thinking about it and since the sex stopped she is calling an end to the relationship that you both had together. I had a GF do the same thing with me years ago and she hid behind her church position but in the end it was about her calling an end to our relationship while she was moving on in another.
LovieDove24 Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 I am going to suggest something again in her defense that only you can decipher whether or not it applies. It is probably a far reach but it applies to my being wary of sex. Maybe it can give you with a little perspective.... You say she has a son? Where is the father? Did she have a very bad relationship with him? Was she ditched in any way by the father of her child? Its quite possible she equates sex with the huge responsibility of single parenting. Whether or not she is open enough to fully understand it or divulge this info to you is a whole nother story. But maybe just maybe she is on the fence about it. She obviously really enjoys it but there most certainly is a stigma she is attaching to it thats holding her back. And Im willing to bet its not just the religion thing. Its only up to you whether you want to get to the heart of the matter or not. I don't know why I'm defending her Maybe its because I can relate to anxiety regarding sex as I was ditched while 2 months pregnant. Believe me, its never simple again after something happens like that.
Author sid3 Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 Wow Lovie D, that sucks that a guy did that. There are some really poor excuses for humans out there, as you obviously know. yeah her ex was very abusive. She has a bit of baggage as some of the other posters have suggested. This whole no sex thing has been caused soley by her love of God and the way the bible tells her to live her life. Like Trial had mentioned, if she was true to her faith there wouldn't of been a first time, second or third. I think if I were to comprimise, not solely because there would be no sex. I think allowing myself to be controlled would lead to resentment on my part. I am also aware that she choose to forgo her beliefs and be intimate already, I can see it happening again. Although knowing that she wants to wait would have me feeling really sleezy and deictful if she were to slip and permitted sex to occur again. I only enjoy the act when I'm with someone with whom I share an emotional connection and is just as if not more into it as I am. If she is as unstable as has been suggested, sounds like I could pose the risk of her claiming date rape if things didn't go her way. I can't imagine a forty five year old woman pulling something like that, but the harsh reality is you never can tell what people are capable of doing. That is a sobering thought. A situation I would never allow myself to be a part of. I see continuing the relationship as being friends. Although she seems to think we'd still be bf/gf. I don't think it would be fair to me. She really is expecting me to agree with her and say, yes your right, this is the way WE should be living our lives. I guess at that point I would get fitted for a leash? I take pride in the fact that I'm as faithful as it gets. I stopped thinking about other women the moment this relationship became physical(kissing,hugging) now that it's suppose to be non physical I can't imagine being truly happy. Isn't that the reason why being with one person is enough. IDK. As far as being put on the backburner, for all I know that could be spot on. When I ask her who the guy from her church is that is sometimes calling her I'm told he is just a friend. I guess he and I have something in common now..Single guy calling, hmmm? Says she's not interested in him. From what I know about single guys calling single women, I'd bet he's interested in her. I think she's expecting me to go over to her place and talk tonite. Honestly the whole situation is making me feel sick to my stomach. Not because I apparently won't be having sex anytime soon, it's the disappointment of what I had been thinking could be a promising relationship suddenly going sour. Could be partly my fault, I typically won't date single moms, disregarding my own insticts is now biting me in the ass. Any suggestions on how to end things without coming across as a only in it for the sex kind of guy?
fishtaco Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 I'm sure more people can brainstorm and come up with more possibilities of why she did this. But the bottom line is, she kway-z. Walk away from her. I've dated single mom's that are crazy, and ones that are not. It does add the complexity of having kids around, but it's doesn't always turn bad. The issue here isn't her single mom status. The issue here is she's crazy. Can you go for the non-religious angle? She's obviously very religious, tell her you don't share her faith, she should find someone that's faithful to god like she is. Or you can go the religious angle. God showed you a sign that you're not ready for a LTR, because your job right now is to serve god. When the time comes, god will let you know, but it's certainly not now. How did god show you a sign? You accidentally dropped the bible and it opened to a certain page. You read the passage and that's what it told you. But you gotta know your bible and pick a good page to pull this off. But really, unless you both run in the same circle, with same friends, who cares. So she thinks you're an ass. Big deal. At least she's out of your life.
ColorCube Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 I hope it goes okay for you tonight Sid3 with your talk. Good luck on all fronts
Author sid3 Posted January 27, 2009 Author Posted January 27, 2009 Thanks fishtaco, your right. She is crazy. It was clearly a test/control move that just blew up in her face. Any sane person who feels it is best to wait until they are married before having sexy doesn't put on a tiny thong, and other sexy things during the early stages of dating. She very much enjoyed getting head(not to sound porno sleezzy) just the facts. We probably did the deed over a dozen times and I never once heard her ask me to stop, that we shouldn't be doing this. I totally equate her change of heart with my not having called her for five days. Hearing her say I am the first man to ever treat her the way I did relieves much of the guilt I thought I'd be feeling. I treated her the way any woman would hope to be treated. No regrets. And not a bit of shame. My pride is intact, she wanted me to be her bf(ie: friend imo) I did go over to talk to her tonite. It was as I expected. I told her how changing the way I live my life and settling for the way she thinks I should live it would make me unhappy, I told her that not having sex wasn't really the issue, but rather having to change who I am at my own expense would leave me feeling less of a man and unhappy with myself. When I told her I could picture putting a ring on her finger someday and that up until her recent change of morals, I had envisioned a long future with her. I struck a nerve.She started to crack and asked if I was willing to keep the dog of the bed always. I said sure, I am willing to comprimise, I am willing to change some things to make her happy. But when I reiterated that even if I tried a sexless relationship, I guaranteed her that it would only be a matter of time before I became unhappy and would desire one women to be in a committed/ physichal relationship with, that's when I told her she needs to find a man that shares the same values as she has recently decided to apply to her life. It was rather peaceful, no yelling, which was a relief. After telling her I was obviously not the right man for her, I got up, wished her the best and told her that I would miss her. That's it. Done. She tried some pyscho babble about how maybe in 5 or ten years god will send me a sign that she was right, and that I would remember her telling me all the crap about living according to god's word. I told her that wouldn't be what I'm thinking about in ten years. I wanted to say any future reflects about her would likely include her being a total hypocrit and more often than not having garlic breath, but I didn't say those things as I wanted to remain polite and respectful as I've always been with her. I deleted her numbers of my cell moments later. They say most exs come back, I hope she doesn't. I'm not certain I've heard the last of her. she can be certain she has heard the last of me. Dam I hate being back on the breakup diet, this truly sucks. I'll have to remind myself that I dodged a bullet. Maybe I did, at 45 she was a bit older than what I would like to end up with. eh, breaking up sucks.
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