39388 Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 "Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an *******, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate ******* beats being a polite beta, every time." I see this advice given all the time on dating sites and I don't get it. Wouldn't touching a woman inappropriately land someone in jail? I have gotten myself in big trouble with friends and on jobs for making a slightly off color joke. Touching on a first date would seem far far worse. Why is it encouraged?
BikerBeagle Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Well, I don't know about the "inappropriately" part, but the rest of it is true in the sense that it is far better to make your romantic intentions known at the get go rather than overdoing the "polite beta" stuff and getting friendzoned.
Geishawhelk Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Because some @$$holes still think 'no' means 'yes' and they're stuck in the dark-ages, under the impression that women should be dragged along the ground by their hair. One inappropriate touch on me landed a guy with scratch marks down his cheeks that bled. he had a job telling his wife what they were doing there.,....
Author 39388 Posted January 25, 2009 Author Posted January 25, 2009 Because some @$$holes still think 'no' means 'yes' and they're stuck in the dark-ages, under the impression that women should be dragged along the ground by their hair. One inappropriate touch on me landed a guy with scratch marks down his cheeks that bled. I get what you say and believe that no means no. But at some point in a relationship, obviously, a couple will want to show affection for each other by touching and kissing and such. She is not going to tell me verbally "kiss me now" and I have a lot of trouble reading others. How would I know for example, when to put my hand around her or when to give her a first kiss? It seems to be such a fine line between looking like a wuss and having her think I'm not interested and being too agressive and gettting myself in big trouble. I feel I'm prone to err on the too cautious side and end up with her leaving me.
Rebellious Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 "Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. You don’t have to be an *******, but if you have no choice, being an inconsiderate ******* beats being a polite beta, every time." I see this advice given all the time on dating sites and I don't get it. Wouldn't touching a woman inappropriately land someone in jail? I have gotten myself in big trouble with friends and on jobs for making a slightly off color joke. Touching on a first date would seem far far worse. Why is it encouraged? If you don't get it at all, just keep practicing till you get it right. But keep your hands off her boobs in public places, lol
Author 39388 Posted January 25, 2009 Author Posted January 25, 2009 Well, I don't know about the "inappropriately" part, but the rest of it is true in the sense that it is far better to make your romantic intentions known at the get go rather than overdoing the "polite beta" stuff and getting friendzoned. Does that mean show her physically or tell her verbally? I really feel ignorant on this kind of thing. If I don't know what to do I may end up doing the "polite beta" stuff and end up with nothing.
turnshyness Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 39388, Glad to hear you're reading some stuff about dating. How's your adventure on your online dating going? I hope all is well. The touching part is important on dates that way you can demonstrate some value and connection w/ her...just be mindful on what you touch. lol! Touching can involve you holding her hands when the time is right or even offering your arms to her when you're crossing the street or if it is cold outside. Try to learn how to read palms that way you can kinda touch her hands and establish some connection w/ her by you reading her palms. I'm really hearing a lot of improvements from you! Keep doing what you are doing and you'll get there. Stop worrying too much and just do what you've read on articles. You'll make mistake and expect mistakes...it's the fine tuning part that will get you there. Dont ever feel afraid failing and getting rejected..it's part of the process! Good luck! Does that mean show her physically or tell her verbally? I really feel ignorant on this kind of thing. If I don't know what to do I may end up doing the "polite beta" stuff and end up with nothing.
Author 39388 Posted January 26, 2009 Author Posted January 26, 2009 39388, Glad to hear you're reading some stuff about dating. How's your adventure on your online dating going? I hope all is well. The touching part is important on dates that way you can demonstrate some value and connection w/ her...just be mindful on what you touch. lol! Touching can involve you holding her hands when the time is right or even offering your arms to her when you're crossing the street or if it is cold outside. Try to learn how to read palms that way you can kinda touch her hands and establish some connection w/ her by you reading her palms. I'm really hearing a lot of improvements from you! Keep doing what you are doing and you'll get there. Stop worrying too much and just do what you've read on articles. You'll make mistake and expect mistakes...it's the fine tuning part that will get you there. Dont ever feel afraid failing and getting rejected..it's part of the process! Good luck! I started to some of the questions on a couple online datings sites, but got so frustrated I stopped. I realized I need to be happier and more positive before I do much more. I'm working on that now, but very soon I will continue of those profiles. The touching part is very important and might be the hardest part for me to pick up. Women usually read others better than men and I think I'm poor for a man in reading others. Not sure what you mean by reading palms? I know the only way I'll get better at this is going out on dates. When I meet a woman I need to by default have faith in her unless she shows me otherwise. The more confidence I have in myself, the easier this will be for me.
turnshyness Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Oh. Here we go again! Dont give up too soon now and get too frustrated too quick answering those questions! lighten up! Like I said before, if you dont have an answer go w/ middle of the road scale. Reading palms is like fortune telling but reading the lines on your palm..when you study this, you ask the girl to show you her palm and you start reading the line on her palm..kinda fortune telling..gives you a chance to touch her and of course opens up conversation more etc. Yes, reading ppl..well you just learn it through experience. Just go out on dates rejected or not..each experience will teach you something. Trust me! remember how I didnt have dates on my belt? Well now w/in 1 month I saw 2 girls...didnt turn out into a relationship w/c is fine but I did learn a lot..w/c includes reading body language etc... I started to some of the questions on a couple online datings sites, but got so frustrated I stopped. I realized I need to be happier and more positive before I do much more. I'm working on that now, but very soon I will continue of those profiles. The touching part is very important and might be the hardest part for me to pick up. Women usually read others better than men and I think I'm poor for a man in reading others. Not sure what you mean by reading palms? I know the only way I'll get better at this is going out on dates. When I meet a woman I need to by default have faith in her unless she shows me otherwise. The more confidence I have in myself, the easier this will be for me.
Author 39388 Posted January 27, 2009 Author Posted January 27, 2009 Oh. Here we go again! Dont give up too soon now and get too frustrated too quick answering those questions! lighten up! Like I said before, if you dont have an answer go w/ middle of the road scale. Reading palms is like fortune telling but reading the lines on your palm..when you study this, you ask the girl to show you her palm and you start reading the line on her palm..kinda fortune telling..gives you a chance to touch her and of course opens up conversation more etc. Yes, reading ppl..well you just learn it through experience. Just go out on dates rejected or not..each experience will teach you something. Trust me! remember how I didnt have dates on my belt? Well now w/in 1 month I saw 2 girls...didnt turn out into a relationship w/c is fine but I did learn a lot..w/c includes reading body language etc... I had a couple of bad days so I did pause. I'm feeling better now so I'm starting to work on the profile again. I have a new picture and am working on the descriptions. It won't be long now before I have something up. I'm starting to think I might actually meet someone. Great job with 2 different women in one month. At that rate before too long you will meet a great woman.
SoulSearch_CO Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Touching inappropriately? No. This will most certainly get you in trouble. Now if you're wondering what kinds of touching is okay so early on in the dating game, I can answer at least IMO. Touching her arm to get her attention before saying something to her if she's looking away, touching her back to "lead" her through the door you've opened for her (some women, however, don't like this - I think it's sweet), offering a hand or an arm when walking outside.
fishtaco Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Basic idea is if you've never been slapped you're not trying hard enough. Although personally I wouldn't go that far. Anyway you can't just go "Hi, how are you doing, you look great!" then reach your hand into her panties and stick your finger up her butt. You have to work your way up. Then when you're reaching her limit, she'll let you know, and you have to stop. No is a no. But if she doesn't give you a no, then you just keep going. The idea is a lot of men would imagine a no and stop due to some sort of preconceived notion. Well, every woman is different, so you push forward until you hit a stop sign. But the trick is, if you get too far pass the threshold, you're outta there. Hence you move slowly, one little bit at a time, to test where the limit is. If you're lucky you'll get a woman that's clear with her boundaries and she'll let you know. But most of the time they won't, so you have to test for it. You can imagine like there's a minimal mark, and a maximum threshold. They tend to be pretty close together. If you don't at least hit the mark, you're boring and you're outta there. If you pass the threshold (a little bit is okay, but you have to back off immediately to before the threshold), then you're a perv/you've offended her, whatever, and you're outta there. This is not just physical touching. This is with everything. Your conversation, your attitude. The best is to hit somewhere between the mark and the threshold. But if you have to err, the reason why being inconsiderate is a better option than being too polite is: 1) being too polite can be viewed as lack of self confidence or lack of interest, both are bad 2) being inconsiderate can be viewed as boys will be boys, as long as you don't go too far, it'll give you room to maneuver to save yourself, but now you know where the limit is 3) if you screwed up by being too polite, it'll fizzle slowly, you won't know until it's too late 4) if you screwed up by pushing too far, you'll know immediately, and you can proceed to save the situation So this is not disrespecting women. That never accomplishes anything. This is about how to find out their threshold, get as close to it as you can, but don't cross it. Because as men we are tasked with being the aggressive one. If we don't push for it, even if the woman is willing (not necessarily sex, but anything, say kissing or something), most likely they won't initiate, and will just be disappointed at your lack of self confidence afterward. Ideally you should watch for signs. Women will be sending you signals of how far you can go. But the problem is every woman has a different set of signals. If you're experienced, you don't need to read my post, and you'll be able to sense what would be appropriate. If you're not, then you have to do the slowly push forward until you get a no method. And you better have a recovery plan in your back pocket (sometimes as simple as just back off). But a no is a no. Respect the no. If you meet a woman that does the her mouth says no but her eye says yes, that's a crazy chick. Get out. Just to make things even more complicated, this doesn't apply too all women. Nothing does. If you meet a woman that's oversensitive to this, you could blow it anyway. Practice. It makes you better. But there will always be a class of inappropriate touching that's just don't go there. Use common sense. Grabbing her boobs at the restaurant? No. But when you're hot & heavy making out in the car... why not. If she doesn't want that, she'll let you know, you stop, and don't try it again until you develop the relationship further. Oh and no creepy touching. Like you've established touching the arm, but you're hesitating to move for the next one, say arm across her waist. Which is fine, you're on a date, you have plenty of time. So you end up continuously petting her arm until you're ready to make the move... um... no.
Author 39388 Posted January 27, 2009 Author Posted January 27, 2009 The last posts are very helpful. The whole thing seems very scary yet I can't be so scared that I don't try. Right now it seems like an almost impossible task to get so much right, but maybe when I date a woman she will help me out more than I think. Maybe I will be able to see into her eyes which could give me some great hints on when to be intimate and when not to be. I have to get in the game to have a chance at winning. If I don't play, I lose. Most everyone has succeeded at some point, so maybe it's not as hard as I make it out to be.
turnshyness Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 I wish I would have read your post a couple of days earlier...let's just say I was persistent/insistent...didnt get the slap..just got kicked out of her crib. She yelled "I need you to leave now". HA Leason learned. No means no... Basic idea is if you've never been slapped you're not trying hard enough. Although personally I wouldn't go that far. Anyway you can't just go "Hi, how are you doing, you look great!" then reach your hand into her panties and stick your finger up her butt. You have to work your way up. Then when you're reaching her limit, she'll let you know, and you have to stop. No is a no. But if she doesn't give you a no, then you just keep going. The idea is a lot of men would imagine a no and stop due to some sort of preconceived notion. Well, every woman is different, so you push forward until you hit a stop sign. But the trick is, if you get too far pass the threshold, you're outta there. Hence you move slowly, one little bit at a time, to test where the limit is. If you're lucky you'll get a woman that's clear with her boundaries and she'll let you know. But most of the time they won't, so you have to test for it. You can imagine like there's a minimal mark, and a maximum threshold. They tend to be pretty close together. If you don't at least hit the mark, you're boring and you're outta there. If you pass the threshold (a little bit is okay, but you have to back off immediately to before the threshold), then you're a perv/you've offended her, whatever, and you're outta there. This is not just physical touching. This is with everything. Your conversation, your attitude. The best is to hit somewhere between the mark and the threshold. But if you have to err, the reason why being inconsiderate is a better option than being too polite is: 1) being too polite can be viewed as lack of self confidence or lack of interest, both are bad 2) being inconsiderate can be viewed as boys will be boys, as long as you don't go too far, it'll give you room to maneuver to save yourself, but now you know where the limit is 3) if you screwed up by being too polite, it'll fizzle slowly, you won't know until it's too late 4) if you screwed up by pushing too far, you'll know immediately, and you can proceed to save the situation So this is not disrespecting women. That never accomplishes anything. This is about how to find out their threshold, get as close to it as you can, but don't cross it. Because as men we are tasked with being the aggressive one. If we don't push for it, even if the woman is willing (not necessarily sex, but anything, say kissing or something), most likely they won't initiate, and will just be disappointed at your lack of self confidence afterward. Ideally you should watch for signs. Women will be sending you signals of how far you can go. But the problem is every woman has a different set of signals. If you're experienced, you don't need to read my post, and you'll be able to sense what would be appropriate. If you're not, then you have to do the slowly push forward until you get a no method. And you better have a recovery plan in your back pocket (sometimes as simple as just back off). But a no is a no. Respect the no. If you meet a woman that does the her mouth says no but her eye says yes, that's a crazy chick. Get out. Just to make things even more complicated, this doesn't apply too all women. Nothing does. If you meet a woman that's oversensitive to this, you could blow it anyway. Practice. It makes you better. But there will always be a class of inappropriate touching that's just don't go there. Use common sense. Grabbing her boobs at the restaurant? No. But when you're hot & heavy making out in the car... why not. If she doesn't want that, she'll let you know, you stop, and don't try it again until you develop the relationship further. Oh and no creepy touching. Like you've established touching the arm, but you're hesitating to move for the next one, say arm across her waist. Which is fine, you're on a date, you have plenty of time. So you end up continuously petting her arm until you're ready to make the move... um... no.
Author 39388 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 I was wondering also how to avoid women who are in relationships only for the chase, the ones who can't live without constant drama. The more you show them affection, the more they want to run with no explanation. Some women feel bad about doing this, while some find it ok. Is there any outward signs or behavior to look for? I've read many women act interested but are really not. As much as I don't want to be single forever, being with someone like this who plays games this intense might be far worse.
joh2141 Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 Don't listen too directly to sites or organizations that like to give advice. All girls are different and you shouldn't judge on their preferences or their views of the repellent on some internet thing. Try to find out yourself. If you can't touch her at all, take a risk to hold her hand. To kiss her. To hug her. While you do this, at one point in time will come a time where you will feel is right to go further. But never be disrespectful. Girl's aren't stupid, they are people. My biggest mistake was to never take a risk with this girl. Yet while being respectful to a girl's body, take an initiative. Us guys have it bad like this, usually taking the initiative, but that shows confidence. And by confidence, it doesn't have to be confidence in like... you're experienced. Just be confident in how you feel about her. Show THAT type of confidence and take an initiative at the right time in this pursuit of yours.
Author 39388 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 I wish I would have read your post a couple of days earlier...let's just say I was persistent/insistent...didnt get the slap..just got kicked out of her crib. She yelled "I need you to leave now". HA Leason learned. No means no... Not as easy thing at all. Hopefully the next woman is better. Maybe practice, which you are getting, is the only way to figure out how to be just right. Not too passive or too agressive.
Author 39388 Posted January 28, 2009 Author Posted January 28, 2009 Don't listen too directly to sites or organizations that like to give advice. All girls are different and you shouldn't judge on their preferences or their views of the repellent on some internet thing. Try to find out yourself. If you can't touch her at all, take a risk to hold her hand. To kiss her. To hug her. While you do this, at one point in time will come a time where you will feel is right to go further. But never be disrespectful. Girl's aren't stupid, they are people. My biggest mistake was to never take a risk with this girl. Yet while being respectful to a girl's body, take an initiative. Us guys have it bad like this, usually taking the initiative, but that shows confidence. And by confidence, it doesn't have to be confidence in like... you're experienced. Just be confident in how you feel about her. Show THAT type of confidence and take an initiative at the right time in this pursuit of yours. I suppose if the woman does something to try and make it easier on me, I'll have a chance at getting it right. If she is a game player or someone who says one thing yet doesn't really mean it, I am in real trouble. Maybe the type of woman I need is one that tries to make all of this easier. She doesn't have to do it verbally, but can make really obvious gestures that even a man who is awful at picking up body language can figure out.
tincanman99 Posted January 28, 2009 Posted January 28, 2009 I suppose if the woman does something to try and make it easier on me, I'll have a chance at getting it right. If she is a game player or someone who says one thing yet doesn't really mean it, I am in real trouble. Maybe the type of woman I need is one that tries to make all of this easier. She doesn't have to do it verbally, but can make really obvious gestures that even a man who is awful at picking up body language can figure out. Just reach out and touch her but NICELY. Think hands, arms, etc... Dont touch her anyplace that would be considered sexual in the beginning. Just invade her space ie. sit closer to her. You will know immediately if she doesnt want you to do it because she will move if she doesnt want you there. BTW, just so you know women EXPECT you to touch them. If you dont they will think you are not self confident, are gay or that something is wrong wit them.
turnshyness Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 If the girl ends up playing a game with you then just play the game back HARDER...that's the only way you'll learn and experience it...that's when you'll start to pick up on cues if she's playing games with you. Trust your instincts in this types of situation. It's usually correct. Remember, "Don't hate the playah'. Hate the game" I suppose if the woman does something to try and make it easier on me, I'll have a chance at getting it right. If she is a game player or someone who says one thing yet doesn't really mean it, I am in real trouble. Maybe the type of woman I need is one that tries to make all of this easier. She doesn't have to do it verbally, but can make really obvious gestures that even a man who is awful at picking up body language can figure out.
DollWelch Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Maybe the type of woman I need is one that tries to make all of this easier. She doesn't have to do it verbally, but can make really obvious gestures that even a man who is awful at picking up body language can figure out. Oh. Women do put out the right gestures. These type of women exist. You just aren't looking out, or rather not noticing them. One key note to keep in mind when dating, is to do what you feel is right within reasonable moral grounds. This does not mean you should lick your date within the first 5 minutes. Be assertive, witty, clever and awake during a date -or at all times around the opposite sex. Be patient, in time, you will find the right woman.
Author 39388 Posted January 29, 2009 Author Posted January 29, 2009 Oh. Women do put out the right gestures. These type of women exist. You just aren't looking out, or rather not noticing them. One key note to keep in mind when dating, is to do what you feel is right within reasonable moral grounds. This does not mean you should lick your date within the first 5 minutes. Be assertive, witty, clever and awake during a date -or at all times around the opposite sex. Be patient, in time, you will find the right woman. I need to get better at reading body lanugage. I miss so much even when it stares me in the face and it is not for lack of trying. I'm more worried about going too slowly. I know I can't wait 5 dates before I kiss her or she might leave and think there is no interest. I need to find the right moment. Also, it would be very unfortable for me to sleep with someone I don't know really well. I don't have a set amount of time though. I hope this does not turn someone off. I don't think my views are extreme on this, but I imagine many men would not want to wait as long as I would.
Author 39388 Posted January 29, 2009 Author Posted January 29, 2009 If the girl ends up playing a game with you then just play the game back HARDER...that's the only way you'll learn and experience it...that's when you'll start to pick up on cues if she's playing games with you. Trust your instincts in this types of situation. It's usually correct. Remember, "Don't hate the playah'. Hate the game" It depends. If she is too full of drama, I could not take it and need to get out. That doesn't mean I don't want to have fun. I do want to enjoy the dating and have a lot of fun. I suppose there are games and then there are games full of constant drama. The constant drama would be too much for me.
Author 39388 Posted January 29, 2009 Author Posted January 29, 2009 BTW, just so you know women EXPECT you to touch them. If you dont they will think you are not self confident, are gay or that something is wrong wit them. There are the last things I need. I need to work on self confidence.
Miss Ting Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 "Touching a woman inappropriately on the first date will get you further with her than not touching her at all. Don’t let a woman’s faux indignation at your boldness sway you; they secretly love it when a man aggressively pursues what he wants and makes his sexual intentions known. Ummm, yeah. Not so much with me. I would not be leaving with happy thoughts, but I don't know...I'm a prude by average standards...so maybe it's just me
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