Amybeth Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 I have read your other threads and your situation sounds very different than most. First of all your H's x or the MW in your scenario - sounds horrible she did nothing for anyone in the house and sounds like she did not care about anything... I don't really know and also you ended up together - in MANY situations the husband is confused and will not ever leave the W for the OW - you were just one of the lucky ones. To me it is like playing craps at a casino - but you are betting with people's lives and emotions (including your own) when you get involved with a MM. It is a conscientious decision to gamble with people. I personally would not do that to myself or to any other human being.
OWoman Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Oh... but i do have quite alot of experience in this matter. The OW in my husband's A not only sent me a very long email but also a "lovely" package full of things that could have really hurt me and did for a while. her intent was to punish him by getting me angry enough to leave him. Amybeth, perhaps I wasn't clear enough. I didn't mean you had no experience in this matter - I meant you had no experience OF BEING THE OW dumped by the MM, and so couldn't know which pain was worse. It wasn't an attempt to deny or belittle your pain - which sounds extreme and I'm really sorry to hear of it - but simply to say, one can't compare. Pain is very subjective and to the person going through it at the time, it seems like the worst pain they've ever experienced and the worst pain in the world, even if someone else thinks it's trivial. When my kids were teens I used to watch them and their friends suffering greatly over things I thought were simply nothing at all - a slight from a friend, getting dropped after a two week "romance", not being chosen for a sports team they weren't that interested in - but for them it was devastating. If I'd said to them, "oh that's nothing - wait until your W of 30 years dumps you!" it would have achieved nothing but withdrawal or defensiveness. Acknowledging someone else's pain rather than denying it allows them to start to move beyond it and to hear what someone else has to say - but like telling someone who has a loaded gun to his own head to think about what his kids would feel if he killed himself - well, most times he simply can't put himself in that space, the noise of his own emotions is too loud just then. First you have to talk him into putting the gun down, and stilling some of that emotional clamour, before he can hear. When a shark bites you and you're lying in the trauma unit, waiting for the doctor, you don't want some nurse telling you about the guy whose whole leg got chomped off. You just want someone to sew you up and give you morphine and make the hurting stop for a while. Later, when you're lying in the hospital bed and the morphine has kicked in, then those sorts of stories matter and you can consider how lucky you were. But, when you're lying there bleeding, you can't even start to hear. It sounds as of your story has a lot of relevance to Meg's, and she could probably gain a lot of insight from yours. When she's ready to hear it.
OWoman Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Well, sending that crap to the wife, following up with a call, and ignoring the pain she knew she and this guy were causing his family does not seem to make this person the kindest of folks. I cannot even imagine what it takes to do this to another person, let alone kids. Intense pain. Desperation. Just be glad you've never felt pain that bad that it caused you to suspend your critical faculties and act rashly.
frannie Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Intense pain. Desperation. Just be glad you've never felt pain that bad that it caused you to suspend your critical faculties and act rashly. Well said. In order to act in these extreme ways, one would really either have to have no conscience, or be in a pit of total despair and desperation where you are not in your normal frame of mind. It's notable that people commenting will often assume that it's the former cause, rather than the latter. I see nothing in the OP's post to suggest that they don't care or are incapable of caring about what they've done. In fact, the post was a cry out for help from a position of desperation at what they'd found themselves doing. A 'sociopath' wouldn't have thought twice about it.
Confused4Now Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 He is Reggie and passing judgement means he also hands down appropriate punishment. Since he only stated his opinion on a public board, he is just Reggie, nothing more. Unfortunately we need more advice on this board than passing judgment and giving opinions...
bentnotbroken Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Unfortunately we need more advice on this board than passing judgment and giving opinions... It's a public board, not a Dr. office. Opinions is all anyone has to offer here. There are no professionals with the experience or credentials to deal with the amount of trauma and drama that goes on here.
Reggie Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 Well said. In order to act in these extreme ways, one would really either have to have no conscience, or be in a pit of total despair and desperation where you are not in your normal frame of mind. It's notable that people commenting will often assume that it's the former cause, rather than the latter. I see nothing in the OP's post to suggest that they don't care or are incapable of caring about what they've done. In fact, the post was a cry out for help from a position of desperation at what they'd found themselves doing. A 'sociopath' wouldn't have thought twice about it. well, you have to admit, her actrions were about as cold and cruel as it gets. Pain does not fully explain it
Confused4Now Posted January 25, 2009 Posted January 25, 2009 It's a public board, not a Dr. office. Opinions is all anyone has to offer here. There are no professionals with the experience or credentials to deal with the amount of trauma and drama that goes on here. True true...but their are people who on this board who shouldn't be giving any opinions and they know who they are too.
bentnotbroken Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 True true...but their are people who on this board who shouldn't be giving any opinions and they know who they are too. Maybe they do, but on the hand do they really know or do they think that all sides are indeed needed to get the full picture?
Spinning Head Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 It seems to me that many posters on this site have become very vindictive/ugly in their posts. It clearly states that The Other Man/Woman is a place for SUPPORT and discussion. I see more personal attacks and ugly comments than support. Look, it is a difficult situation in which one finds oneself when involved with a married person. So many people assume an OW/OM is casting his/her bait to reel in an unsuspecting MM/MW. It's usually not the case. The name calling, judgment calls, personal attacks, etc. really needs to stop. I doubt any OM/OW would wish the situation in which they find themselves on their worst enemies.
mrmatt Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Sure You Do, Those Are You And Reggie's Opinions Of Me From My First Post Here. You Know, I Was Three Paragraphs Down In My Reply When An Old Saying Popped Into My Head- "You Catch More Flies With Honey Than You Do With Vinegar." That Simple Saying Says More In Less Space Than Any Other Response I Could Type Out. Agree Or Disagree With A Poster Or His Or Her Actions, Great. But To Respond In A Manner Which Shows Only Judgement And No Apparent Class Is Tasteless. I Don't Object To People Being Blunt And To The Point, I Object To What I See As An Attack. Just My Two Cents. This Forum Is Here For Support And Discussion, And The Rules And Guidelines Are Clear, And Calling Someone A Sociopath Because You Disagree With Their Actions Is Just Uncalled For. Have A Nice Day. How Fast Do The Shift Keys Wear Out On Your Keyboards?
2sure Posted January 26, 2009 Posted January 26, 2009 Meg33 Your sending things and calling the wife was a dramatic thing to do. But after 10 years...it seems like being subtle wasnt getting you anywhere. It does seem like your motive was perhaps solely to hurt his wife, which is a bad motive. However, the same actions, with a different motive , would be seen as the right thing to do. The BS should always be told. This is her life. And your in it, or at least have been an unknown factor in it for the last 10 years. Your dramatic action was generated by frustration but doesnt change the fact that she should have been made aware of the circumstances of her marriage, family , and life. So, the way you did it was wrong, it sounds like your motives for doing it were wrong - but the "telling" was right. You were attempting to get some resolution. For your own sake, while you are recovering - take a step back and blame the MM. Not his wife. If his daughter said it made her sad to think of her parents ever divorcing - then she said that. It doesnt mean his wife is somehow tricking her H. And if he wanted to leave - that wouldnt stop him. Thats just his lie/excuse to you. He wants you to blame his wife, or believe he staying for the children - because he doesnt want to look like the weak/bad guy here. You can be angry of course - and you should be. Blame it all on him if you like, and reject your part of the blame if you can - but none of this can be blamed on his wife. It is not healthy for you to allow yourself to distort reality to that extent.
KismetGirl Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 I don't know if you are stupid, silly, cruel, selfish or immoral. I do know your actions speak volumes about what is in your heart. Your actions have shown selfishness and cruelty. Your actions(by my value system)are immoral and I can't even say if you are a woman. That word (as well is man)is used to characterize someone who has reached the chronological age of maturity, not the mental or responsible age of maturity. And as for sociopath, that term is overused and in my opinion used to describe too many as not being able to control their actions because of some unseen Freud created persona. I find lots of opinions here mean spirited and uncalled for. I also find many here blunt, tart and too the point. They aren't sugar coated, fluffy or meant to be mean. They are just he truth as seen by the poster. The sensitivity displayed by some is amazing and graceful. The bluntness by others is no less valid, the delivery just isn't to your liking. I don't see how calling anyone a sociopath , an idiot, or immoral in any way, shape or form helps them to understand their situation. Im pretty sure every person who is an OW or OM comes to this board because they know its a bad situation and are at a loss for what to do. They need support and opinions. what they do NOT need is name calling and belittling. This isn't a public forum to make fun of others or make them feel low. You can tell someone that you didn't think sending a package to their wife was a very nice or considerate thing to do, or even tell her that it seems like a desperate move, which are both telling her her actions were wrong without making her feel like sh*T, because I assure you, she already feels that way or she wouldn't be writing here. Take it easy vultures. The title of this forum is "The Other Man/Woman: SUPPORT and DISCUSSION for THOSE WHO FIND THEMSELVES INVOLVED WITH A COMMITTED PARTNER". I does NOT say "please come here and tell the OM and OW's that they are sociopaths/idiots/morally bankrupt/worthless human beings/devoid of any other positive attibutes because they fell for the wrong person"
Confused4Now Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 I don't see how calling anyone a sociopath , an idiot, or immoral in any way, shape or form helps them to understand their situation. Im pretty sure every person who is an OW or OM comes to this board because they know its a bad situation and are at a loss for what to do. They need support and opinions. what they do NOT need is name calling and belittling. This isn't a public forum to make fun of others or make them feel low. You can tell someone that you didn't think sending a package to their wife was a very nice or considerate thing to do, or even tell her that it seems like a desperate move, which are both telling her her actions were wrong without making her feel like sh*T, because I assure you, she already feels that way or she wouldn't be writing here. Take it easy vultures. The title of this forum is "The Other Man/Woman: SUPPORT and DISCUSSION for THOSE WHO FIND THEMSELVES INVOLVED WITH A COMMITTED PARTNER". I does NOT say "please come here and tell the OM and OW's that they are sociopaths/idiots/morally bankrupt/worthless human beings/devoid of any other positive attibutes because they fell for the wrong person" Exactly why their are lurkers here...they are afraid to hear this crap!!! And believe it or not some of the regular people don't post just for that reason. They just go underground for a while....its so sad.
bentnotbroken Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 I don't see how calling anyone a sociopath , an idiot, or immoral in any way, shape or form helps them to understand their situation. Im pretty sure every person who is an OW or OM comes to this board because they know its a bad situation and are at a loss for what to do. They need support and opinions. what they do NOT need is name calling and belittling. This isn't a public forum to make fun of others or make them feel low. You can tell someone that you didn't think sending a package to their wife was a very nice or considerate thing to do, or even tell her that it seems like a desperate move, which are both telling her her actions were wrong without making her feel like sh*T, because I assure you, she already feels that way or she wouldn't be writing here. Take it easy vultures. The title of this forum is "The Other Man/Woman: SUPPORT and DISCUSSION for THOSE WHO FIND THEMSELVES INVOLVED WITH A COMMITTED PARTNER". I does NOT say "please come here and tell the OM and OW's that they are sociopaths/idiots/morally bankrupt/worthless human beings/devoid of any other positive attibutes because they fell for the wrong person" AHHHH, I see. So the term vultures is an exception to that rule. Gotcha, I understand completely.
KismetGirl Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 AHHHH, I see. So the term vultures is an exception to that rule. Gotcha, I understand completely. you werent the one coming and asking for help only to be made to feel worse. :-) and it was meant to be "see, it doesnt feel nice when someone does it to you" sarcasm, but sarcasm doesnt transmit well over the internet ever.....
desertmoon Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 It's a public board, not a Dr. office. Opinions is all anyone has to offer here. There are no professionals with the experience or credentials to deal with the amount of trauma and drama that goes on here. Then clearly, some of us have misunderstood the purpose of this board..let me copy and paste: LoveShack.org is designed and operated to promote collaboration and to offer support to persons seeking advice. The hosts of the channel and web forums and other guests assist you with problems or questions that you may have regarding relationships and other socially oriented questions. We do our best to try and help you find your own answers.
gopher Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Unfortunately we need more advice on this board than passing judgment and giving opinions... Having no dog in this hunt, it is interesting to read the threads in this section and never see people advising the OW to either give it up or to seek help because what they are doing is whacked....In any other section, both men and women would see sending old love letters or what not to an existing relationship as being unhealthy. Here, the 'advice and support' is 'Honey we feel your pain'....'Hang in there and do what's best for you'....There is very little good advice, I guess because it weakens the positions of the other OW's if they tell her anything but "hang in there" or how "wronged she is".
Reggie Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Exactly why their are lurkers here...they are afraid to hear this crap!!! And believe it or not some of the regular people don't post just for that reason. They just go underground for a while....its so sad. Brings tears to my eyes. Why can't we all just get along. Group hug.
desertmoon Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Having no dog in this hunt, it is interesting to read the threads in this section and never see people advising the OW to either give it up or to seek help because what they are doing is whacked....In any other section, both men and women would see sending old love letters or what not to an existing relationship as being unhealthy. Here, the 'advice and support' is 'Honey we feel your pain'....'Hang in there and do what's best for you'....There is very little good advice, I guess because it weakens the positions of the other OW's if they tell her anything but "hang in there" or how "wronged she is". And your point is that other OWs should be telling other OWs to give it up because they are whacked and immoral, etc? You do not think that, "honey, do what is best for you (as in ,leave him now or go NC) is not good enough because....????????? you do not like how it is phrased? How do you think support and advise should be doled out?
Reggie Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Having no dog in this hunt, it is interesting to read the threads in this section and never see people advising the OW to either give it up or to seek help because what they are doing is whacked....In any other section, both men and women would see sending old love letters or what not to an existing relationship as being unhealthy. Here, the 'advice and support' is 'Honey we feel your pain'....'Hang in there and do what's best for you'....There is very little good advice, I guess because it weakens the positions of the other OW's if they tell her anything but "hang in there" or how "wronged she is". Or, "You go girl. A man will move mountains for the woman he loves." I love that one. It's profound and insightful.
desertmoon Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Or, "You go girl. A man will move mountains for the woman he loves." I love that one. It's profound and insightful. One day, some woman will move mountains to be with you, Reggie. She will break through the bitterness and resentment that has envelope you courtesy of your cheating spouse and capture your heart.... There is hope, meg....let go...
gopher Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 And your point is that other OWs should be telling other OWs to give it up because they are whacked and immoral, etc? You do not think that, "honey, do what is best for you (as in ,leave him now or go NC) is not good enough because....????????? you do not like how it is phrased? How do you think support and advise should be doled out? I think advise should be balanced, based on the situation and I haven't seen any advice that says to go NC or leave him now...Sometimes that IS the best thing to do and sometimes it's not. But these threads seem to be devoid of constructive criticism. Are OW's or their behavior immune to being whacked???? They must be the only group in LS that is, then. and Where in my post did I say immoral?....
NoIDidn't Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 Meg I think you should start a new thread. Has anything new happened since you sent the box? 10 years is a long time. Have you read that stat that if he doesn't leave within the first year of the A that you don't have much of a chance of his leaving later? I don't think he's leaving, regardless of whether you boil a bunny or not. Have you heard anything from MM? Are you still trying to contact his W? You haven't been back to the thread.
desertmoon Posted January 29, 2009 Posted January 29, 2009 I think advise should be balanced, based on the situation and I haven't seen any advice that says to go NC or leave him now...Sometimes that IS the best thing to do and sometimes it's not. But these threads seem to be devoid of constructive criticism. Actually, if you have time, some of the posters did advise to let it go... Are OW's or their behavior immune to being whacked???? They must be the only group in LS that is, then. Who said they were immune? and Where in my post did I say immoral?.... I don't know...did I say you said it? did i quote you saying "immoral"?
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