sb129 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 . Do you hunt or fish in N.Z? No, but my husband does. Alot. Within the laws of the country we live in, if thats OK with you. I think we may be arguing from the same side here, but do correct me if I am wrong. Did you get my point? Well it wasn't really explained particularly well. It read that NA Indians are the only people who should be allowed to hunt/fish in NA. Again, feel free to correct or elaborate on your point. Are you p.c.? Not particularly. Which side of the argument were you saying were PC? Do you know anything about N.A. cultures? No. Never needed to. I live in a country quite a long way from yours that has its own indigenous people and I know a fair bit about them. Relevance to ones surroundings and all that. Sorry. One can't be expected to be an expert on all the peoples of the globe. I can play this game as well as you. No game here. Not quite sure whats got up your goat there. Chill man.
sb129 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 You are entitled to think that my position is "weird" or that I'm ridicules. I have my views and preferences and I will always stick to them. This has never been an issue to me. I don't even know any men that hunt or fish. In addition to being horribly cruel and cowardly, hunting and fishing are very trailer trash to me. They are part of a life style that I am not interested in ever being a part of With all due respect Allina, the thing I am a little taken aback about is the vehemence with which you lump all hunters in together and call them "trailer trash", when you admit you don't even know any men who hunt or fish. Thats quite judgmental and lumping people into stereotypes- not very broadminded at all. You expect people to respect the fact that you are vegetarian- so can we just agree to disagree without getting so nasty about it? I won't take offence, but you are basically calling my husband a horrible trailer trash cruel coward. Ouch! He is an intelligent, warm, kind, broadminded man with postgrad degrees and other more cultural interests and couldn't be trailer trash if he tried! Like any past-time, these activites attract a broad cross section of people. They are actually quite expensive past-times to pursue, and as a result of that in my country people who fish and hunt regularly tend to be more wealthy. (us excluded!)
allina Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 With all due respect Allina, the thing I am a little taken aback about is the vehemence with which you lump all hunters in together and call them "trailer trash", when you admit you don't even know any men who hunt or fish. Thats quite judgmental and lumping people into stereotypes- not very broadminded at all. You expect people to respect the fact that you are vegetarian- so can we just agree to disagree without getting so nasty about it? I won't take offence, but you are basically calling my husband a horrible trailer trash cruel coward. Ouch! He is an intelligent, warm, kind, broadminded man with postgrad degrees and other more cultural interests and couldn't be trailer trash if he tried! Like any past-time, these activites attract a broad cross section of people. They are actually quite expensive past-times to pursue, and as a result of that in my country people who fish and hunt regularly tend to be more wealthy. (us excluded!) SB, I like you very much, and I like WB by relation. I feel bad about insulting him by grouping all hunters, I honestly do. But it's impossible for me to grasp how a warm hearted, warm, loving, good man kills an animal for fun! To plan a trip in which the main focus is to KILL an animal and watch it die blows my mind. I have no doubt that your husband is a good, loving man, but I do have great difficulty combining that with a man who says "I think I'd like to kill some animals for fun today." The stereotype I have of hunters is based on Americans. It IS a past time of the red neck, nascar watching, uneducated, budwiser drinking, confederate flag waving people in this country. I cannot speak for New Zealand.
Star Gazer Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 =It IS a past time of the red neck, nascar watching, uneducated, budwiser drinking, confederate flag waving people in this country. That's ridiculous, A. There are just as many white collared professionals who hunt and fish as there are rednecks. Nearly every male attorney, accountant, investor, etc. that I knows fishes, at the least. By the way, do you wear leather shoes? And doesn't your car have leather seats?
clv0116 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 .... it's impossible for me to grasp how a warm hearted, warm, loving, good man kills an animal for fun! Of the guys I know who hunt very few "kill for fun", hunting is about time spent in the woods or on the lake with the actual killing being a tiny part of it. Every hunter I know also eats what they kill. I liked everything about hunting except the watching the animal die truth be told, so I quit, but I'm not going to judge them any more than I do a butcher.
allina Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 That's ridiculous, A. There are just as many white collared professionals who hunt and fish as there are rednecks. Nearly every male attorney, accountant, investor, etc. that I knows fishes, at the least. By the way, do you wear leather shoes? And doesn't your car have leather seats? I know MANY white collar professionals, none of them hunt or fish, none. Every family friend my family has is successful, educated and has an advanced degree. To ME it's a redneck/hick thing to do. My car does have leather, I got it 5 years ago when I still ate seafood, I wasn't a strict vegetarian then. Most of my handbags and shoes and vegan, I go out of my way to purchase as little leather goods as possible. But I do wear leather. The leather industry works alongside the meat industry, so at least nothing is wasted. I would never, ever wear fur because that's an industry where an animal is skinned and it's body tossed in the dumpster. At least with leather the rest of the animal is used for food, it would have be killed anyways.
Star Gazer Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 I know MANY white collar professionals, none of them hunt or fish, none. Every family friend my family has is successful, educated and has an advanced degree. To ME it's a redneck/hick thing to do. And I know MANY white collar professionals. ALL of them at the very least fish. Hunting and fishing simply are NOT activities limited to "rednecks" or "trailer trash." Sh*t, even Dick Cheney (as much as I loathe the man) hunts... although he seemed to prefer hunting friends than animals. My car does have leather, I got it 5 years ago when I still ate seafood, I wasn't a strict vegetarian then. But you are now. So why do you still own it? But I do wear leather. The leather industry works alongside the meat industry, so at least nothing is wasted. Says who? Can you guarantee where each piece of leather comes from? Plenty of animals are wasted for their skins - snakes, alligators, sharks, and yes...cows. Unless you personally watched the animal get killed and separated for parts, you have no way of knowing. You're just justifying it for your own purpose. At least with leather the rest of the animal is used for food, it would have be killed anyways. This is one of the funniest, most hypocritical things I've ever read. Really. If you're against the killing of animals across the board, you should be against the use of dead animals in all its forms...including by wearing leather. But you're not. So to put people down, and categorize people the way you have, is just... ridiculous. (And I say that with the utmost respect. )
sb129 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 SB, I like you very much, and I like WB by relation. I feel bad about insulting him by grouping all hunters, I honestly do. But it's impossible for me to grasp how a warm hearted, warm, loving, good man kills an animal for fun! To plan a trip in which the main focus is to KILL an animal and watch it die blows my mind. I have no doubt that your husband is a good, loving man, but I do have great difficulty combining that with a man who says "I think I'd like to kill some animals for fun today.". Maybe you will just have to meet him to reconcile the differences in your mind IRL. Its not really as simple as "lets go out and go kill something today". Most trips involve alot of planning and patience. I think thats all part of it. I appreciate that you can't grasp that, TBH its not my idea of a fun day either. You have to walk for ages in bush and its pretty boring. Fishing can be pretty boring too, except if you go on a boat and get to hang out and relax at the same time. But I do like to eat the spoils, and I am not going to diss it as its something my H enjoys from time to time and is good at. I would rather eat things that have been caught by my H than buy battery farmed chicken.
allina Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 And I know MANY white collar professionals. ALL of them at the very least fish. Hunting and fishing simply are NOT activities limited to "rednecks" or "trailer trash." Sh*t, even Dick Cheney (as much as I loathe the man) hunts... although he seemed to prefer hunting friends than animals. But you are now. So why do you still own it? Says who? Can you guarantee where each piece of leather comes from? Plenty of animals are wasted for their skins - snakes, alligators, sharks, and yes...cows. Unless you personally watched the animal get killed and separated for parts, you have no way of knowing. You're just justifying it for your own purpose. This is one of the funniest, most hypocritical things I've ever read. Really. If you're against the killing of animals across the board, you should be against the use of dead animals in all its forms...including by wearing leather. But you're not. So to put people down, and categorize people the way you have, is just... ridiculous. (And I say that with the utmost respect. ) Ok, you know many, I know none. And Dick Cheney, don't even get me started It is a well known fact that animals are not strictly killed for their leather, and until people stop eating them they will be killed for their meat. I may as well take part in the entire animal being used, to me it is less tragic when as little as possible is wasted. But as I said, I make it a point to buy mostly animal free products. I do not use makeup/beauty products that are tested on animals either. And I shared my opinion of people who hunt that is based on my perception and observation. That's all, it is MY opinion, it's how I view them.
allina Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Of the guys I know who hunt very few "kill for fun", hunting is about time spent in the woods or on the lake with the actual killing being a tiny part of it. Like camping? I enjoy camping. Why don't they just go camping?
burning 4 revenge Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Like camping? I enjoy camping. Why don't they just go camping? why do people go camping when they can look at nature pictures on the internet?
boldjack Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Hello again, I'm back. We trailer trash, nascar loving, hillbilly,ignorant, redskins were living, hunting, fishing, and being in harmony with our creator and our natural world for many thousands of years. We neither need nor want the approval of narrow -minded, patronizing, upper-class ewes. The opinions expressed by allina have no validity because as she admits, she is a total hypocrite. If you don't believe in killing animals then you shouldn't use ANY animal products. The opinions expressed by sb129 are equally suspect. I'm betting that the Maoris love the whiteyes just as much as we Indians do . I am in favor of all rich white people staying out of the woods. Go to your cocktail parties, luncheons,operas, political-fundraisers and tennis matches and leave mother Nature to those who know and love her best. I wouldn't want to know either one of you ,on a bet.
burning 4 revenge Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 i dont like nature i prefer hiding stuffed animals around the apartment and then laying in wait with a bow and arrow
boldjack Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Yes, I have two tickle me elmo's mounted on the wall already.
clv0116 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Like camping? I enjoy camping. Why don't they just go camping? Well they enjoy the taste of venison I believe. As i said i don't participate but anyone who lives a lifestyle enabled by killing animals has no moral high ground here in my estimation.
sb129 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 The opinions expressed by sb129 are equally suspect. I'm betting that the Maoris love the whiteyes just as much as we Indians do . I am in favor of all rich white people staying out of the woods. Go to your cocktail parties, luncheons,operas, political-fundraisers and tennis matches and leave mother Nature to those who know and love her best. I wouldn't want to know either one of you ,on a bet. :lmao::lmao: Chip, meet shoulder. Your race doesn't automatically make you an expert on the outdoors. But hey, whatever. Care factor = not enough to bite. You'll have to stick to fishing for that. Don't be using any of that newfangled whiteye technology now! Strictly natural materials only.
sb129 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Yes, I have two tickle me elmo's mounted on the wall already. Nice. Are you going for the Big 5 set?
d0ll Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 YES .. what kind of douche gets pleasure out of putting a hook through a fishes mouth? or shooting an animal as a 'sport'? I think its TERRIBLE & would NEVER go out with a guy who does such things.
Dumbledore Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 i dont like nature i prefer hiding stuffed animals around the apartment and then laying in wait with a bow and arrow :lmao:
boldjack Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 129, Absolutely. Catgut, horsehair, moose spit, the whole works.
boldjack Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Big 5 ? HAH!! I want big bird, mickey Mouse, Pokemon....pretty much anything with hair, scales, tentacles,button eyes, whatever.
sb129 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 129, Absolutely. Catgut, horsehair, moose spit, the whole works. Cool. Don't forget your own body fluids. I hear they are pretty good for certain kinds of stalking. Big 5 ? HAH!! I want big bird, mickey Mouse, Pokemon....pretty much anything with hair, scales, tentacles,button eyes, whatever. Awesome. Can I come over?
boldjack Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 129, If I have come off boorish, sorry. I have hunted and fished all my life. I learned at the feet of my father, grandfather, and great uncle, all of whom are gone. I have had to defend my culture too many times to count. I used to not say anything, but as I 've gotten older , I have grown more combative. Even though everyone is entitled to their opinion, that doesn't give it worth. I simply don't understand people who have never hunted, don't know anybody who does, have no connection with their own culture, yet feel free to insult anybody who does. Maybe people are less elitest and superior in N.Z. I hope so.
sb129 Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 129, If I have come off boorish, sorry. I have hunted and fished all my life. I learned at the feet of my father, grandfather, and great uncle, all of whom are gone. I have had to defend my culture too many times to count. I used to not say anything, but as I 've gotten older , I have grown more combative. Even though everyone is entitled to their opinion, that doesn't give it worth. I simply don't understand people who have never hunted, don't know anybody who does, have no connection with their own culture, yet feel free to insult anybody who does. Maybe people are less elitest and superior in N.Z. I hope so. Dude- we are arguing the same point if you didn't notice that! I am on your side! Apology graciously accepted. My H learnt to fish with his Dad who learnt from his Dad, and the three of them used to all go together until recently when granddad got too sick. (H is 35) I challenge anyone to criticise the value of that quality family time- fishing or not, not enough people spend that kind of time with their family these days.. I understand where you are coming from. From what I understand the voice of NA indians doesn't get heard alot when it comes to their customs and culture, which is sad. NZ is alot smaller than the US, and NZ government does a pretty good job of recognising the Maori culture- although some may dispute that. As far as colonised countries go, we have treated our indigenous tribes with the most respect and recognition. (Unlike our trans-Tasman neighbours!) Maori have their own politicians, government seats, departments and intitiatives. The Maori still retain control over much of the coastline, seabeds, rivers, lakes and national parks and have personal fishing rights and allowances that white people don't have. 30% of all the commercial fishing profits of NZ has to go to local iwi (Maori tribes). Everyone that I know has a healthy respect for the outdoors, and a fiercely protective love of it too.
boldjack Posted January 27, 2009 Posted January 27, 2009 Yes, I met some (Maoris) in the service. Good soldiers.
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