Query for the Women: Hunting = Fishing?

[D-Lish]

But surely pedophiles come from different backgrounds and pathologies and thus vary in their behavior? Perhaps they are sicker on average than most other criminals, but I'm sure a few of them could be rehabilitated.

 

 

Well, I'll tell you what- research statistics on this. I'm serious- look at stats. Stats don't tell the whole story- but it's a start.

 

Okay- say that you're right, "a few" can be rehabilitated. if a "few" translates to 3%, and we know 100% of Pedophiles are integrated back into society... What does that mean.

 

It's not an offence that has a life sentence. So you have to realize that these predators get released.

 

Maybe this is a topic for a new thread. We are talking about hunting and it has led to something off-topic.

 

I'm not changing my mind though- I value the life of an innocent animal over the life of a violent criminal or pedophile.

[BubblyPopcorn]

Human survival, yes; trophy, no. I always threw the fishies back when my dad used to take us fishing and he'd get mad, lol.

[D-Lish]

Does this mean we can eat pedophiles?

 

I think you are safer with lettuce.

[StartingOver07]

So... is everyone who's opposed to hunting and fishing vegetarian? Or is there something more noble about factory farming/slaughtering animals than hunting/fishing them?

[kashmir]

You can't treat a child molester. They are not mentally retarded.

I wouldn't shoot a mentally retarded person.

 

If I was faced with the dilemma- shoot the deer, or shoot Corky, I'd have an issue.

 

Human beings have cognition- they have understanding, they have the ability to make choices. A pedophile will never, ever respond to treatment. They are also rarely kept in the system for life. They get released- and they re-offend.

 

If you have ever worked with molested children- seen the damage inflicted upon them... heard their stories, you might feel differently. My first profession was as a Child and Youth Counsellor in a group home. I dealt mainly with abused children. The worst case I ever worked on was horrific. An 18 year old girl that had been violated, raped, molested by HER OWN PARENTS. She was 5 years old when the system took her. She was admitted to the hospital because her mother had turned on a curling iron and violated her daughter. That's right- this sick woman turned on a curling iron and put it into her daughter's vagina. The father- he pimped her and her brother out to strangers for money.

 

That is the worst case I had to oversee, but I saw lots of awful, tragic, mind-boggling things.

 

So... Could I sit through the execution of that girls mother and father? YES.

 

If someone gave me a gun and said I had no choice but to kill the deer or Shoot the child molester that turned this girls life into a living hell... the deer is so safe. Heck- the choice could be between a spider and the molester- the spider will be spared.

 

My mother was molested and beaten. A good adult friend I have was molested as a child. I know their stories.

 

You've got to have something wrong with you in order to even think about molesting a child. Many of the men who commit such a crime are clearly not all there mentally. They have to resort to preying on children because they don't fit into society because of their retardation. I have a friend who's in his 40's and mentally retarded. He's such a sweet guy, and he wouldn't hurt a fly, but I can see how others like him would turn to preying on children. He has a sex drive like anyone else, but no woman would want to be with a man like him. They then realize that children aren't so judgmental and will accept them much easier. That unfortunately leads to connecting a child's innocent and naive mind to fulfilling sexual desires. It's wrong, very wrong, and I feel for every child out there who went through such a horrible thing, but the answer isn't to shun these men as the evil scum of the earth, because they're not. Thats why I hate Chris Hansen and Dateline, because they exploit these obviously-mentally retarded men on television and then have them tackled by a mob of cops. It's great that they're preventing them from preying on children further, but god damnit, it's horrible how they treat these men who don't know any better. Get them put away with psychiatric help instead of embarrassing them on television for other people's amusement and then brutally arresting them.

 

People need to wake up and realize some of the reasons why people behave criminally, instead of immediately casting them aside and hating them.

 

And for the record, I would shoot the deer over a child molester any day, even if the child molester is completely evil and knew perfectly well what he was doing when he committed those crimes. At the very least, we can study him and realize what literally was going through his brain. A deer is just a deer.

[MN randomguy]

Back to the original spirit of the thread. OP is asking if being a hunter makes him less desirable.

 

I think there are many women from Upper Middle class backgrounds who are squeamish about animals dying. This conversation would seem utter ridiculous 50 years ago. Or in any third world country.

 

Girls who don't agree with hunting. If you found the sweetest, hunkiest guy around. He had a great relationship with his dad and brother and went hunting with them 2 weekends a year. Is that a go or no-go?

 

I understand if you're not desensitized to it as most people in world history are in childhood. But, does killing an animal make someone a bad person?

[vedderbetter]

MN - it's not the actual killing part that bothers me so much (and it does bother me and yes I am a vegetarian), it's the THRILL of pleasure a person gets from watching another living sentient being die that sickens me. That rush of power, almost sexual in it's intensity that hunters, especially "big game" hunters report feeling when they take that final shot and watch the life drain out of an animal's eyes. Do you know that there is one thing all serial killers have in common? They all started out enjoying death by killing animals. This is not to say that people who hunt are all serial killers, but I would argue that hunters hunt not for "sport" (because really, what's so sporting about hiding in a tree in cammies with a laser scope rifle and anti-human scent spray on so you can wait for a deer to walk by and blow it's head off from 500 yards?) but because they enjoy that feeling of power. That greatly disturbs me. I find no pleasure in death. Any death, even if it is just a deer.

 

And to the guy who says he wants to hunt a tiger - look here you complete a-hole - tigers are CRITICALLY endangered because of jerks like you. If the ILLEGAL poaching of these rare and beautiful animals does not cease immediately, it is very possible that they will become completely extinct in the next 50 years and it will not be from "natural selection", it will be DIRECTLY because of sick men like you. Tigers are amazing creatures and I hope that if you ever do go on an illegal poaching hunt for a tiger, it rips your face off.

[Trimmer]

Does this mean we can eat pedophiles?

Now that would solve a couple of problems at the same time...

[Jersey Shortie]

Would you shoot a mentally retarded deer?

 

I could never hunt but I do not have a huge issue with it within reason. I live in NJ and we, as I am sure other states, have a huge epic deer issue. If it wasn't for the hunters, there would be more deer running out into more on comming traffic. My father is old school and has a hunting club. They go out, hunt, bond and cook what they catch. If you are just killing for the sake of it, not really cool. If you are doing it for other purposes even if yo udo enjoy it, it's understandable. I wonder how many people here who are against hunting wear leather.

 

As for considering fishing as hunting..well I guess it is. It is going to depend on the individual. Some people are more okay with fishing, some aren't. If a woman can't handle it but you enjoy it, then she needs to make a choice that she can live with. I would never hunt but I still date men even if they do.

[Trialbyfire]

I honestly don't think I could kill for pleasure, such as hunting. I know I could kill if threatened or someone hurt, killed or threatened my loved ones.

 

Not that I have killed before but if a pedophile were to harm one of my younger relatives, I could put a bullet between his/her eyes with no remorse. The same would hold true with a cougar mauling or killing a loved one. If no authority will do it, I would take the cougar out, if I could.

[kashmir]

And to the guy who says he wants to hunt a tiger - look here you complete a-hole - tigers are CRITICALLY endangered because of jerks like you. If the ILLEGAL poaching of these rare and beautiful animals does not cease immediately, it is very possible that they will become completely extinct in the next 50 years and it will not be from "natural selection", it will be DIRECTLY because of sick men like you. Tigers are amazing creatures and I hope that if you ever do go on an illegal poaching hunt for a tiger, it rips your face off.

 

I was obviously exaggerating and just fantasizing wildly (I do that a lot), but because you wished for my face to ripped off and were a complete ass to me, I'll say that I'm not exaggerating and that I do intend to hunt a tiger, kill it, and mail you its head.

 

I'm in genetics. I've read a ton of books about conservation. The extinction of certain cats like populations of lions and cheetahs have been going on since the last ice age ended, and it hasn't had completely to do with us either. A lot of these species aren't doomed, per-say, but they've been bottlenecked and are, for lack of a better term, genetically screwed. Hopefully in the future we'll be able to re-introduce variation into these species and rebuild them artificially. I honestly don't really care if a species goes extinct as long as we keep its genetic data. I know a lot of other people want to spend tons of time and resources conserving species, but I don't see a point to it, as it's inevitable they'll become extinct despite our intervention. I think it's more wise to invest in technology that can preserve the data of a species, therefore in the future if technology ever progresses to the point where we can artificially rebuild a species, we'll be able to go back to the old data we collected while the species was still alive.

[Alma Mobley]

No, I would never date a hunter, because I don't think killing things is a sport. My in-laws (through my brother) raise their own beef and pork -- I have no problem with that, either. (Don't get me started on factory farming though!)

 

I don't like fishing either. I had a bad experience when my brother took me fishing when I was about 6. We caught a fish and I cried until we threw it back.

 

At least I am consistent, eh?

[MN randomguy]

I'm in genetics. I've read a ton of books about conservation. The extinction of certain cats like populations of lions and cheetahs have been going on since the last ice age ended, and it hasn't had completely to do with us either. A lot of these species aren't doomed, per-say, but they've been bottlenecked and are, for lack of a better term, genetically screwed. Hopefully in the future we'll be able to re-introduce variation into these species and rebuild them artificially. I honestly don't really care if a species goes extinct as long as we keep its genetic data. I know a lot of other people want to spend tons of time and resources conserving species, but I don't see a point to it, as it's inevitable they'll become extinct despite our intervention. I think it's more wise to invest in technology that can preserve the data of a species, therefore in the future if technology ever progresses to the point where we can artificially rebuild a species, we'll be able to go back to the old data we collected while the species was still alive.

 

Heck, then we could just create our own species. Ligers:laugh:

[sb129]

Don't ligers actually exist?

 

Most hunters I know do it for food- and IMO there is nothing wrong with that, especially as where I live, the animals they hunt are ecological pests and are destroying native bush and therefore the habitat of our native animals.

Deer and rabbits have been destroying the native bush in New Zealand since they were introduced and as a result we have many highly endangered birds in this country.

 

My H is a keen fisherman AND a hunter, and he only ever catches animals that are not native, and only ever takes enough for what we need to eat.

 

Case in point we are eating lobster for dinner tonight, thanks to our local ocean. Free, and delicious, and NOT commercially fished, which is even more damaging to species.

Commercial fishing is banned in the spots he goes to. Commercial sale of trout is illegal in New Zealand- but fishing for personal use is allowed.

 

Ironically to some of you, my H also is a biology teacher and has a background in zoology and marine science. He loves animals, and some of you may see that as contradictory, but he is not a violent man, nor does he do it for "sport", nor to feel "power" over the animal.

Venison happens to be delicious, and very good for you.

 

I think the type of hunting where you go out with tons of equipment, a rifle, and lots of ammo to kill deer is stupid. There's no sport in that. You're just doing it to feel power over an animal.

 

Now, my brother and I have discussed this, and someday we want to go big game hunting in Africa. I don't know if I'd ever be insane enough to do this, but my ultimate thrill-seeking experience is to go tiger hunting with nothing but a bowie knife and a scoped .44 magnum with only three rounds.

 

I agree with the poster who says that these animals are critically endangered because of people like that.

My H was moved to tears when those gorillas were shot in the Congo recently, as we went to Rwanda to watch the mountain gorillas last year and it was an incredible experience.

 

 

Anyway, to get back on track...hunting = fishing = appreciation of the outdoors.

 

We live in a beautiful, bountiful country where the outdoors is highly respected and conservation is encouraged strongly.

Hunting and fishing are commonplace but they are very strictly regulated.

 

If I had a major problem with it, I wouldn't be enjoying rabbit, smoked trout, venison, lobster, snapper or fresh tuna as often as I do, and my lovely H is also a mean chef- we save a fortune on eating out!

[chrislovestosurf]

For the most part, people with morals who fish for sport throw back their catch thus saving its life. Otherwise we kill animals to survive and I think there is nothing wrong with that at all. In sportsfishing, sometimes a fish will go through something similar to what divers have experienced when they come up too fast from depth, called the "bends" or decompression sickness. They end up dying as a result. However I would hardly consider sportsfishing catch and release as inhumane BY ANY MEANS.

 

Commercial fishing is a different topic and i know that many mammals end up dying due to the gigantic nets sweeping up everything in their path.

 

With the rules and regulations that are in place to help protect the good of the species in our waters, sportsfishing is a great hobby and if it puts some extra food on the table then its fine by me.

To be honest I get a little annoyed by the vegans/veggies who think it is inhumane to kill for food.

 

 

 

As far as it being a flag, I think the only thing that could be a flag would be if it was such an obsession that you didnt see him much and the relationship suffers as a result. Or if he is a crab fisherman in Alaska whos safety is seriously comprimised by the dangers of the Bering Sea, lol.

[chrislovestosurf]

That's weird, and it makes me sad

 

And just because someone gutted the animal and ripped the bones out of it after slaughtering it you forget that it was a LIVING, INNOCENT animal?

 

And it USED to be an animal? It still IS an animal. It's just now dead and its flesh cooked.

 

I think its WEIRD that people cant understand why humans kill animals to survive. Or to get some incredibly healthy nutrition from their flesh. I think its ridiculous that you wouldnt date someone that is a hunter or fisherman, BUT would you date someone that ate meat? lol

[Throne Of Lies]

Ligers are real animals! Somehow if you breed a lion and a tiger, the offspring is a lot bigger than either parent. I don't know how that works, weird.

 

 

Hunters are across the board far better stewards of the environment than nonhunters. I find people's conceptions of hunting deeply amusing. From someone mentioning a 'laser scope' (what the hell is that?) to the idea that using a rifle is unsporting, all of these notions show how completely clueless most posters are about hunting.

 

Even if you go into the woods with a high-caliber semi automatic rifle with powerful optics, advanced camouflage, scent blockers, calls, feed sites, and tree stands, hunting is NOT easy. You will come home empty handed far more times than you come home with a corpse. Not to mention that after you have shot the animal, you usually have to finish it off, gut it, drag it out to your truck, usually several miles away, and then dress it when you get where you are going. It is a very difficult and bloody process. When you go through that much work to get about 40 pounds of meat and a pelt, you tend to value it a lot more than the average person who buys meat off the shelf.

 

Personally, I've hunted bears for sport before. There was a cull, bears were overpopulated in the state, and I killed one with a compound bow. I didn't need the meat, although I gave it to people who did. I kept the bearskin and collected the bounty. I don't think that makes me a bad person.

[Charles1978]

I've been hunting and fishing for as long as I can remember. In fact, many of my free weekends are taken up with these activities to this day. And I can honestly say that I have yet to meet a woman who doesn't love the idea of going fishing with me. Hunting? Not so much, but whatever.

 

As far as people who hunt and/or fish, you should know that almost always... people who really enjoy these things have a very conservationist view of the wild. I, for one, donate time and money to several different conservationist organizations... ie Coastal Conservation Association, Ducks Unlimited, etc. Most of these types or organizations dedicate themselves to the conservation and expansion of breeding grounds, funding studies to track and improve wildlife reproduction and general habitat.

 

It is a great thing to do with your kids... keeps them interested in a relationship with their parents, and it lives on until they are adults and in every case, leads them to the same interests, which can't be said for too many other activities between parents and kids. There is a respectful and responsible way to enjoy these activities, and it is something I will always enjoy.

[sb129]

Good post Charles, I couldn't agree more.

 

I was talking to my H about this thread, and he said pretty much exactly what you said- saying that hunters/ fishermen are very pro-active about conservation, and he gave me a few great examples ie here in NZ there are lots of wetlands that are preserved by duckshooters.

 

Also, there are seasons to hunting and fishing which respect the breeding times of the animals.

 

And my H has an amazing relationship with his Dad as a result of all those fishing trips, and he has made new friends really quickly in our area due to a shared interest.

 

PS. the lobster was delicious. Yum.

[boldjack]

Wow, what bunch of politically correct nonsense. I'm Native American, we have ancient, cultural reasons for hunting and fishing. I know that I speak for all my fellow "red men", in that we really appreciate you white people pointing out our moral depravity for us.

[sb129]

Wow, what bunch of politically correct nonsense. I'm Native American, we have ancient, cultural reasons for hunting and fishing. I know that I speak for all my fellow "red men", in that we really appreciate you white people pointing out our moral depravity for us.

 

How do you know I am white?

 

I am not even American. I guess it wasn't me you were referring to..

[boldjack]

I don't know. Do you hunt or fish in N.Z? Did you get my point? Are you p.c.? Do you know anything about N.A. cultures? I can play this game as well as you.

[allina]

I think its WEIRD that people cant understand why humans kill animals to survive. Or to get some incredibly healthy nutrition from their flesh. I think its ridiculous that you wouldnt date someone that is a hunter or fisherman, BUT would you date someone that ate meat? lol

 

You are entitled to think that my position is "weird" or that I'm ridicules. I have my views and preferences and I will always stick to them. This has never been an issue to me. I don't even know any men that hunt or fish. In addition to being horribly cruel and cowardly, hunting and fishing are very trailer trash to me. They are part of a life style that I am not interested in ever being a part of

 

I am aware that people once had to depend on hunting animals for food, clothing, shelter and many everyday objects. However, today it is unnecessary to kill animals, especially for sport. 1,000s of years ago humans did many things that we no longer find acceptable or necessary. As we've evolved our needs and life styles have changed.

 

I don't know what makes you "lol" here My SO does eat meat on occasion.

[clv0116]

If the entire animal is being consumed, then it's all good. Fishing is and can be fun.

 

Not sure if you mean this literally but that's a pretty tall order. Antlers, intestines, and so on are not typically used for anything a typical hunter would be interested in. The hides are often tanned however.

 

I think that for someone to categorically disqualify a mate simply due to him or her hunting with no further qualifiers is pretty foolish unless there is a legitimate aversion to killing, for example a vegetarian would probably be well served.

 

NOTE: I don't hunt.

[clv0116]

I hate the thought of hunting, or anyone doing it ...

 

Do you eat meat?