lexi29 Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 My fiance's 9 yr old son lives with him. He has primary physical custody. THe mother is supposed to see him every other weekend and half days holidays if she wants (she usually doesn't want to as she only saw him an hour on christmas and then called my fiance to come get him). The mother lives 2 hours away (she voluntarily moved there as she used to live five minutes away). This is a very long story so I"ll try to shorten it. My fiance got a custody order in 2006. At the time he lived in State A and the mother did as well (not together). Custody order states that the mother must provide all transportation for her son (for visitation). So when my fiance lived in State A she used to send her boyfriend to pick him up at my fiance's place. In 2007 mother moved to State B (about ten minutes away) My fiance's family moved to State B shortly after and he figured he would move too as his parents were the ones who watched his son after school. He got written permission from his ex to move to State B where she lived as well. A week after he moved there she moved back to State A. (about a half hour away this time). She still had to provide transportation but she asked my fiance if he would drive to a place near where he used to live to drop off his son. He agreed because she did not want her to get mad and take it out on their son (she does this quite often) . In 2008 the mother moved 2 hours away (still in State A). Her mother lives in our area (about ten minutes away) so she would drive down on weekends and stay at her mom's house and eventually she would just have her mom pick him up and keep him for a night and she'd drive down on saturdays and pick her son up from her mom's house and take him back to her house (2 hrs away). She wanted to end weekend visitation and only have him for the entire summer. My fiance told her no because he talked to his son about it and his son was terrified of spending all summer with his mom and not seeing his dad. He told her the custody agreement specified she was allowed to take two entire weeks during the summer and he was sticking to that. She took one of her weeks (was supposed to notify my fiance by April which weeks she was taking) instead she took their son for the weekend and called my fiance the day she was supposed to bring him back and said she was taking her entire week. (very hard on his son). she never took her 2nd week at all. She thinks my fiance should drive half way to her new house because she lives so far away now. He refuses because it was her choice to move 2 hrs away. We decided we wanted to move to state C in August of last year. Now this state is only about 20 minutes from where my fiance lived. Just across the state line but a better area and better schools. He asked his ex if she'd give him written permission to move (he told her she would not have to drive any further as he'd continue to meet her where he did previously near her mom's house). She refused and said if there was nothing in it for her then she wasn't giving him permission and too bad. He explained he'd wanted to start his son in school in the new state so he didn't have to change schools in the middle of the year. His ex didn't care. She said he'd have to spend the money and go to court over it. So he requested a relocation hearing in State B (where he lived). It took until November to get a hearing. his ex was supposed to attend. If she approved of the move she was to send a letter to the court and the hearing would be dropped and we'd have permission automatically if the judge signed off on it. Well she never did this. She never showed up for the hearing either. The judge was irritated that our request wasn't objected to or approved by the ex and that she didnt' even bother to show up. The judge asked if we wanted to change the custody order in any way (to state that we will meet the mother at a certain place or have different visitation.) My fiance said no and the judge said since your ex isn't here to object I am leaving it the same and she will have to drive to where you move to (in state C) and pick up and drop off your son. (since the custody agreement states she provides transporation). Well my fiance did not say anything to his ex before christmas because he knew she would be mad and take it out on their son (she actually did anyway because she was mad we moved and told their son there is no such thing as Santa and did not buy him any presents becuase "he was bad" although HER mother did buy him two things. Then she tells my fiance that she approved of the move and sent the court a letter saying so and called them asking if they got the letter (the court has no record of this). The weekend after christmas my fiance told his ex that he would meet her in State B (where he used to live) which is a ten minute drive from their normal meeting place (since 2007 he has been meeting her as a courtesy as SHE is required to provide all transportation) because he's been laid off and didn't have much gasoline. She met him there but was angry about it. This past weekend was his ex's visitation weekend. He called her two days before she was supposed to pick their son up and asked her to meet him in state B (same place as last time, again only about ten minutes from their normal meeting place) SHe refused and he reminded her that techinically she HAS to drive to whereever we live (since the custody order has never changed) and she could drive about forty minutes from their normal meeting place (to his new place in state C) or she could just drive the additional ten minutes. She sent him text messages saying she is through playing games with him and that she will be at their normal meeting place for a half hour past the time she is supposed to pick him up and he'd better be there. My fiance went to the place he told her he'd be at (state B) and she refused to drive the extra ten minutes to get her son. she was supposed to pick him up at 6pm and my fiance waited until 6:45pm and she finally called him and asked where he was at and he told her and she said forget it and that HE is in contempt of the court order (not true) and that she has filed for a custody hearing in her county (in state A) and that she has a paper stating that my fiance HAS to meet her at the address of their normal meeting place. This can not be possible because #1 there is NO address on the custody order. It just says that the mother is required to provide transportation. Also my fiance doesn't have to meet her ANYWHERE because SHE is responsible for picking her son up and dropping him off. Also, I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure a modification to the custody agreement can only be done in either the state the child currently lives in or the county and state the original order was granted in. She lives in neither but is saying she filed one in her own county) I think she is bluffing but I don't know. When we wanted to request a relocation hearing we went to the county and state (state A) that the original custody order was granted in and that court said they cant' do anything because we had to go to the current state we now lived in (state B). that is the court that handled the relocation request. So she would either have to come to our state or state B (where my fiance just moved from) to request any changes to the custody order be made. Also she is trying to tell my fiance that he kept her son from her and she will be reporting this. Actually (and I told him to do this) he sent her a test message (for proof) and called and left her a voicemail saying if she wanted to pick their son up the next day he would meet her (at the same place he tried to the night before). That was on friday and we have no heard from her since. She never called their son or anything. What do you think of the situation? Technically the mother has to pick up her son at our current house (in state C) this is an extra half hour to forty minute drive for her. So that is why my fiance decided that he would be nice and meet her in state B where he used to live and this is only an additional ten minute drive for her but she is now refusing to do it. I would think if you want to see your child, ten minutes is nothing. And she did it once before. Should my fiance give it to her? Or should we stick to the current plan? I think it makes HER look bad that she didn't pick up her son this weekend (because she refused to drive ten minutes farther). My fiance wants to do what is best for his son but can't bend over every time his ex throws a fit. SHe is a very narcasistic person who thinks the world revolves around her and most treat her like it does. She has NEVEr shown up for a court hearing concerning her son and she's always gotten away with it. She was court ordered to take a parenting class and never did. Her son comes home with the most inappropriate stories (talks about how his aunt has an electronic ankle bracelet, knows what a gps tracking key is, tells us how his mother has a boyfriend (cheating on her live in boyfriend) and how her live in boyfriend knows and is going to shoot the other guy etc. How his mom leaves him and his four year old sister home alone so she can go on dates while her boyfriend is at work. My fiance wants to keep the ex happy so she doesn't take it out on their son but doesn't want to bend over backward at her every whim. He has done her a lot of favors such as not requesting she pay child support, he buys everything for their son (mother doesn't buy him school clothes or pay for any of his support), he has met her at a certain place since she gave him permission to move to state B (not where he currently lives), he has given in to her demands such as meeting her earlier or later or sometimes taking their son to her mother's house for visitation etc.
Geishawhelk Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Get a Lawyer. Get the evidence. Get a court date.
2sure Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Because of the two of them lack the ability between themselves, to communicate effectively and compromise to make arrangements - the courts will end up irritated with both parties. It isnt fair, but its the risk you take. An effective compromise might be HER picking the child up from his place on her weekends (that way if she wants him, come get him and also if she doesnt - he isnt forced to see her). Then, HE picks the child up at her place at the end of the visit (that way he is ensured the child is home for school, less threatened, etc.) Although it isnt indicated in the court arrangements right now that he should do this, its a good idea to show this compromise. Because of the transport problem - the courts WILL allow her to take him for the summer. If she doesnt come and get him, document it. That way, when she goes to get all summer visitation - you can show she isnt sincere in wanting him for that length of time.
steveraves Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 In my opinion you're posting on the wrong kind of forum. You'd be better suited going to a legal forum. I've posted several questions on this forum http://forum.freeadvice.com/ . It's free, no membership of any kind required. In that forum you'll be dealing with lawyers and people who are familiar with family law/custody issues. Try and stick only to the facts. They tend to be good about telling you what's relevent and what's not, and they can tell you what you need to do to change a custody order.
Author lexi29 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 There is already a custody order (that my fiance went to court to get). I'm sure the mother doesn't even have a copy of it (probably threw it away) My fiance doesn't need a court date. He already has a custody order and is trying to abide by it (the mother is the one who isn't following the custody order and thats fine if she doesn't want to see her son but my fiance doesn't want her dragging him back to court and saying he's kept her son from her because that just isn't true) The thing about her picking him up and him going to get his son is a good idea in theory but I don't think it is fair. I mean the MOTHER is the one who chose to move 2 hours away (she didnt' move for a job as she doesn't work, she moved to escape bill collectors) and since it is a 2 hour drive for her and a 2hour and forty minute drive for us(one way) on sundays my fiance would have to drive almost six hours to pick his son up every other weekend. He doesn't know anyone where she lives so its not like he can stay the night there and only have to drive almost 3 hours in one day (his ex's mother lives here and she stays with her most nights she comes to pick her son up and drives back the next morning) So it puts too much of a burden on my fiance to have to drive that long (and gas money since he already pays for everything for his son and the mother pays nothing). In most court cases if one parent moves away, it is their responsibility to pick their child up so it doesn't cause a burden on the remaining parent. I honestly don't think its my fiance's responsibility to compensate for HER moving so far away. She didn't consult him, didn't even tell him she'd moved (his son told him) and she refused to give him her new address (I had to lie and tell her I needed her address to send her a wedding invitation and she gave it to me) We are afraid if she takes him back to court, the court will give her visitation for the summer. My fiance really fears this because his son is so messed up when he comes back from his mom's. His mom tries to scare him into doing things (tells him he'll never see his dad again etc) and most times when he comes home he is a really angry or a really insecure kid. This weekend when his mom refused to come get him he was very excited he didn't have to see her! That is really sad and I wish the situation was different.
steveraves Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 It shouldn't matter. He has a court order and as long as he's following what is in the order he is doing nothing wrong. Again you're better off posting these questions on a law forum where you can get more accurate advice from people who practice law instead of relying a lay persons advice.
Author lexi29 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 In my opinion you're posting on the wrong kind of forum. You'd be better suited going to a legal forum. I've posted several questions on this forum http://forum.freeadvice.com/ . It's free, no membership of any kind required. In that forum you'll be dealing with lawyers and people who are familiar with family law/custody issues. Try and stick only to the facts. They tend to be good about telling you what's relevent and what's not, and they can tell you what you need to do to change a custody order. Thanks for posting the site but I went there and read some stuff and all I can see if that the regular posters seem very rude to the people posting and are saying things like stepparents have no business asking questions and that unless you are the biological mother or father (even if you are married) you aren't a parent and should have no right to talk about the child. Just crazy stuff. Sorry but just because someone helped conceive a child does not mean they are a parent. A step parent or adoptive parent can be just as much of a parent to a child than their biological parent. The uneccessary rudeness to everyone who posts just really turned me off!
steveraves Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Well that's true in a sense, and from what I read you may not even be a step parent. Like it or not the issue isn't with you. It's between the biological father and the mother in regards to their child. Maybe your fiance can post. They can be rude, but do you want accurate information or do you want a lay persons opinion. Just because everyone's opinion may agree with you, if it's not accurate it really doesn't matter. I'm not trying to be mean with my post, but accuracy is what matters and not opinions and the issue is betwen the father and mother. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not or think it's fair or not. It's the way it is.
blind_otter Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Thanks for posting the site but I went there and read some stuff and all I can see if that the regular posters seem very rude to the people posting and are saying things like stepparents have no business asking questions and that unless you are the biological mother or father (even if you are married) you aren't a parent and should have no right to talk about the child. Just crazy stuff. Sorry but just because someone helped conceive a child does not mean they are a parent. A step parent or adoptive parent can be just as much of a parent to a child than their biological parent. The uneccessary rudeness to everyone who posts just really turned me off! Legally, custody issues are between the biological parents, and don't usually involve step parents (much less unmarried partners of the biological parents). And of course adoptive parents, but those are a far cry from step parents. I understand your concern. My S/O has an 11 year old son from his previous marriage, and I care about and love that boy very much. But personally, I feel that my place is to support my S/O, and his older son, not to attempt to give input into a situation that is not mine to give. They need to sort it out between the two of them. If they can't, the courts will have to step in. I think about my own son, and if my S/O and I were to split up, I would NOT want any future GF of his involved in making decisions about my son.
Author lexi29 Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 Well that's true in a sense, and from what I read you may not even be a step parent. Like it or not the issue isn't with you. It's between the biological father and the mother in regards to their child. Maybe your fiance can post. They can be rude, but do you want accurate information or do you want a lay persons opinion. Just because everyone's opinion may agree with you, if it's not accurate it really doesn't matter. I'm not trying to be mean with my post, but accuracy is what matters and not opinions and the issue is betwen the father and mother. It doesn't matter whether you like it or not or think it's fair or not. It's the way it is. No, I am not his step parent yet. I agree that it is better to have accurate information. And no, I don't need everyone to agree with me, I'm just looking for opinions. If my fiance wanted legal advice he'd talk to a lawyer. My opinion about the web site you posted... is just my opinion. No big deal. From what I've read it seems the senior members as they call them do more bashing of people for not being biological parents, criticizing of biological parents who are having problems with their exes (saying you picked them its your fault etc) and that doesn't seem like the best way to go about helping someone. In the terms of the site it says basically to stick to the facts, no name calling of the exes etc but the members that post to supposedly "help" these people don't follow their own rules. Instead of posting advice or even constructive criticism they rant about people not being 'real' parents and when someone is truly concerned about something (ex. a father with custody worried about his daughters visiting with his mom and her new live in boyfriend with a criminal past he is told its none of his business who his ex dates and exposes their kids to) Just seems like a lot of angry "helpful" people there.
steveraves Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Understood. In part the reason they do that is because you have no legal standing in the matter. I would agree with you they tend to be harsh on the lay person who isn't familiar with the law. However, if your S/O posts he can find out more about what his rights are and what he should/shouldn't do, and how to proceed. If he doesn't want to post a lot of lawyers give free initial consultations. So since you want opinions I'll give you mine. 1. All the we moved here, she moved there ect. Is where you're living now and she living approved by the court or is there some sort of written documentation? If there isn't there probably should be. It protects your S/O. 2. I wouldn't do anymore than what the court order said. The court approved that and he is following the courts directive. If she doesn't like it let her file something to modify it, and he'll be given his opportunity to speak and say that it's not fair to him for her to have the child all Summer. At that time he could point out he's willing to make a concessions or compromises. If he starts doing that now he's setting a precedent and doing more than what the court may or may not order. A lawyer would need to advise. 3. The stuff you wrote about Santa, and presents - irrelevent. Nothing illegal about being an a$$ nor does it show she's unfit. Her being narcasistic person - irrelevent that's your opinion, the part about the aunt - probably not relevent, The boyfriend issue any proof of that other than the sons word? - without proof probably not relevent, even with proof may not be relevent. Anyways those are my opinions. I understand where you are coming from. I'm currently going through a divorce and I save things I think are relevent, and then when I go to the lawyer none of it's really relevent. So to you and I and a lot of other people things may seem relevent, when there not. Either way document everything, and good luck to you.
Sweetcheripie Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Legally, custody issues are between the biological parents, and don't usually involve step parents (much less unmarried partners of the biological parents). And of course adoptive parents, but those are a far cry from step parents. I understand your concern. My S/O has an 11 year old son from his previous marriage, and I care about and love that boy very much. But personally, I feel that my place is to support my S/O, and his older son, not to attempt to give input into a situation that is not mine to give. They need to sort it out between the two of them. If they can't, the courts will have to step in. I think about my own son, and if my S/O and I were to split up, I would NOT want any future GF of his involved in making decisions about my son. Totally agree with this. Also when it involves kids and this stuff the less stress the better. Maybe your significant other does things that aren't really "fair" but in the best interest of his son. Changing a custody order can be so messy - even when it seems totally like a no brainer. You can get a mediator or a judge or whoever with an agenda and what you thought would be a simple little stipulation change or whatever turns into opening a whole can of worms - trust me on this! Please try to step back and just let your fiance deal with this.
Author lexi29 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Posted January 21, 2009 Understood. In part the reason they do that is because you have no legal standing in the matter. I would agree with you they tend to be harsh on the lay person who isn't familiar with the law. However, if your S/O posts he can find out more about what his rights are and what he should/shouldn't do, and how to proceed. If he doesn't want to post a lot of lawyers give free initial consultations. So since you want opinions I'll give you mine. 1. All the we moved here, she moved there ect. Is where you're living now and she living approved by the court or is there some sort of written documentation? If there isn't there probably should be. It protects your S/O. 2. I wouldn't do anymore than what the court order said. The court approved that and he is following the courts directive. If she doesn't like it let her file something to modify it, and he'll be given his opportunity to speak and say that it's not fair to him for her to have the child all Summer. At that time he could point out he's willing to make a concessions or compromises. If he starts doing that now he's setting a precedent and doing more than what the court may or may not order. A lawyer would need to advise. 3. The stuff you wrote about Santa, and presents - irrelevent. Nothing illegal about being an a$$ nor does it show she's unfit. Her being narcasistic person - irrelevent that's your opinion, the part about the aunt - probably not relevent, The boyfriend issue any proof of that other than the sons word? - without proof probably not relevent, even with proof may not be relevent. Anyways those are my opinions. I understand where you are coming from. I'm currently going through a divorce and I save things I think are relevent, and then when I go to the lawyer none of it's really relevent. So to you and I and a lot of other people things may seem relevent, when there not. Either way document everything, and good luck to you. He has moved twice since the custody order was granted. The first time (by the court) he was told he only needed written permission from the mother to move (and it had to be recorded by the court) He got this and had it notarized (she tried to later deny that she gave him permission). The 2nd time the mother would not give permission to move so he took the case to court and she didn't even show up so the judge granted him the relocation request. In total he has moved 20 minutes from where he originally lived (but in a different state). The mother has moved 5 times since the custody order was granted (2006) and she has neither notified the court nor asked permission. According to the custody papers she is "strongly encouraged" to get the court's permission to move but since she is not the custodial parent it is not required. I know that in the eyes of the court none of what I wrote about what the mother does is relevant. they don't take infidelity issues into consideration, they don't care how she treats her child as long as she's not physically abusive. My fiance doesn't know how to use the internet so that is why I ask questions, try to find out info for him. I did post on the other forum you mentioned and while no one was rude directly to me, the "senior members" that gave me advice actually did not seem to know what they are taking about it this particular case. Tried to tell me that my fiance went to the wrong court and it was improper and the court who has jurisdiction in a custody case in one where the mother lives which is incorrect. thanks for your opinions. Good luck to you as well.
Author lexi29 Posted January 21, 2009 Author Posted January 21, 2009 Totally agree with this. Also when it involves kids and this stuff the less stress the better. Maybe your significant other does things that aren't really "fair" but in the best interest of his son. Changing a custody order can be so messy - even when it seems totally like a no brainer. You can get a mediator or a judge or whoever with an agenda and what you thought would be a simple little stipulation change or whatever turns into opening a whole can of worms - trust me on this! Please try to step back and just let your fiance deal with this. I am letting my fiance deal with this. He asked me for assistance as he doesn't know the laws etc. He is terrified his ex will take his son away from him so he believes her threats. I am just trying to find information to ease his mind. I'm not sticking my nose where it doesn't belong. I do not tell him how to handle his son's mother, nor do I interfere in the decisions he makes regarding his son. He does ask for my help and my advice because I am part of their lives. He moved to be with me so we could all be together as a family. So yes, he asks for my input because his ex and her actions do have an effect on me as well. I've been more of a parent to his son than his ex has and I know I don't have any legal rights but I want to help them as much as I can. My fiance isn't going to ask for the custody order to be changed. He just wants to know what his ex would have to do if she wants to change it. Basically where she'd have to go to court to file for a modification- the state she lives in, the county she lives in (2 hrs away), the state he just moved from, the state we now live in or the county where the original custody order was granted. Thats all..
steveraves Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 My fiance isn't going to ask for the custody order to be changed. He just wants to know what his ex would have to do if she wants to change it. Basically where she'd have to go to court to file for a modification- the state she lives in, the county she lives in (2 hrs away), the state he just moved from, the state we now live in or the county where the original custody order was granted. Thats all.. I don't think you'll find your answer here, and at best it would be speculation. Also, I don't believe you mentioned states so one state law may be different then the other. My guess would be the modification would need to be filed in the county that issued the order, however that is only an opinion. The information you need has to be accurate and not guesses. Since you don't want to post on a law forum, try calling your local clerk of courts.
steveraves Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Will this apply to you... I don't know.. Subject: Where do I file for Custody Question: " What is the name of your state? PA My original Custody Order was drawn in Montgomery County, PA. I have since moved to Philadelphia County and my ex-wife and my kids have moved to Bucks County. Due to circumstances that have arised, I am going to file for Custody, but have received conflicting info on what County I have to file in. Is it Philadelphia, since that's where I live? Or is it Montgomery County, because that's where the original Order was filed? Please help!" Answer: "File in Montgomery County. Mom may be granted a change in venue to Bucks County if she requests one, but Philadelphia County will not be hearing your case. I highly suggest getting an attorney." I hope this helps some, but if you contact your local clerk of courts they should be able to tell you what the laws are where you live. Can custody rights be modified? Absolutely. You can go back to court to change a custody order if there is a substantial change of circumstance that has a significant, adverse effect on the child (such as visitation problems, erratic behavior, relocation and impact on child-parent relationship, change in employment, residence, or marital status). Because we live in a highly mobile society, it is strongly recommended that you periodically evaluate the parenting plan. The courts recognize that many factors (such as, children’s age, relationship with both parents, the parents’ relationship, the wishes of the children) can be altered over a period following divorce and, though reluctant to change the parenting custody plan, the courts will do so if it is clearly necessary and in the best interest of the child. Alternatively, the ex-spouses can voluntarily modify the last order by agreeing to changes between themselves. If there is a departure from the last custody order, it is best to put the new current changes in writing; oral agreements are difficult to enforce. What if I do not like the present custody order? Can I file for custody in another state? Bouncing cases across state lines in search of a "favorable" judge who "sees it your way" was very common for years, made a mess of custody actions, until the enactment of the Uniform Child Custody Jurisdiction Act (UCCJA for short). Adopted by all states, it avoids the competition and conflict for jurisdiction between courts of different states. Courts cannot take custody cases unless the child has lived in the state for a certain period of time immediately preceding the filing of the lawsuit. Furthermore, a court cannot reiterate the custody awards of another state, unless there is a genuine emergency and even then, the modifications would be limited to the emergency, not to wholesale changes in the original custody arrangement. The bottom line, most likely, is going back to the state where the last custody order was issued
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