DigitalManDan Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 So I feel like this needs a lot of background story so I can get more accurate help. Basically ive been trying to turn my best friend into my girlfriend. Im 25 and live at home while saving $ working on animation for small films. She is 27 lives by herself in an apt in the complex that she works for. We live about 8 minutes from each other. We became friends almost 4 years ago now and have been best friends for the majority of it. She had been dating one of my friends (now obvious ex-friend) from high school for about 2 years...up until recently. Anyways I graduated from college and moved back home about a year and a half ago and thats when i started getting even closer to her and started liking her the more we hung out and talked. This is also probably due to the fact that her bf moved an hour away to grad school even tho they were still seeing each other on weekends. On a normal basis if we werent hanging out every day doing things we would be talking online or texting constantly. Shes pretty much aquired all of my friends as her friends. So in October it finally got to the point where i had to confess all my feelings for her. I thought that was going to cause her to back away but it didnt. Although i started backing off because i couldnt handle the suffering. She hated the distance and confessed she knows that we;ve been more than friends and that it felt like we were breaking because it felt like we were in a relationship. She told me she has gotten jealous a couple times when ive hung out with other female friends. She told me about a time she wanted to kiss me but didnt. She also told me many time when i was away for a weekend or a trip that she missed me. She also said that she started figuring out that i liked her around the beginning of the summer. Her bf and i were basically the only guys in her life and a huge part of it obviously meaning a lot to her and she wanted us both. But the way it was. So i started not being able to handle it even more and told her that I couldnt be friends with her or talk to her until things changed. We went for a week without talking which was absolutely miserable for the both of us considering how we had been used to constant everything. She ended up telling her bf everything and constantly crying to him causing him to give her the ultimatium of never talkting to me or seeing me again if she wanted to stay with him. She wasnt about to agree to that so they broke up the next week officially when he found out she was hanging out with me again. On that night we were watching a movie and i ended up cuddling up with her. I attempted to kiss her but she turned away. Keep in mind we had never even held hands or anything up until this night. We then layed down cuddling and i snuck in a kiss and she kissed back a for a few seconds but said it felt weird and was too soon. So for about a month i gave her plenty of space and time. She said she was so indecisive about the whole thing and was constantly going back and forth about how she felt about her and him and me and her. Also during the week we didnt talk she had told friends of mine during that time she relealized problems between her and her bf and how much she needed me in her life and how i was the one who made her happy and was most important to her. About a month ago she deicded to back off from me for about a week although we still talked every other day almost like once or twice but then realized the same things again. Throughout this month she still has been back and forth about everything and still argueing with the ex. There have been a few more times where weve been close like a night out to the bars and a club with friends we seemed to cling physically pretty close the whole time but no kiss. Just last week we started talking about very personal things online like masturbating and such a few times. Then over the weekend we did date like things movies and dinner and hungg out watching tv on her couch while cuddling up. We fell asleep for a bit and then for some reason she woke up feeling weird and uncomfortable with it for some reason still. Then this whole last week i hung out with her almost every night in hopes to cuddle up or see some sorta sign from her again...but nothing. So yesterday we argued about it and she goes into saying how everything is so weird for her cuz she was so comfortable with me as a best friend. She realizes that we have been more than friends at some sort of inbetween thing but feels weird about it being more than that. She said everything is there between us and has feelings but feels like something is missing, and that something missing has to be there for her or she wouldnt be into it. It seems like the only thing missing the physicalness which she is weirded out by since weve never had a phyiscall relationship of any kind. Then she says having a romantic relationship with me would be weird to her. I also know that she likes tall skinny dark haired guys and she is usually set in her ways about things. Im the same height as her maybe a sliver taller and have light colored hair blonde-red. I told her i cant keep going back and forth with how one minute she seems to give one feeling towards me and say stuff and then the next minute she says and does the complete opposite. She replied saying she was just testing things out last week and it felt weird. So now for the 3rd time we arent talking again which im sure wont last long but it still sucks. Everytime this happens i make plans and go out and do things to keep my miind of her but then we both just end up missing each other. I am completely in love with this girl and have no idea what to do, i cant just be best friends with her because i get too depressed. But Id also hate to not have her in my life. Theres got to be something i can do to make her see that giving things a shot, even just a kiss...wouldnt be so bad. This is the hardest thing ever. Any help would be great.
socialight Posted January 18, 2009 Posted January 18, 2009 this girl is going to break your heart into a thousand pieces the way this is going. IMHO The best way you can land her is to start dating someone else and for her to see you happy with another person. Then she *might* get a clue. You need to find a real GF and stop spending time with this girl. As it is now you are being her friend while allowing her to indulge in fantasies about meeting someone else. She is using you the way the relationship is currently structured. I say meet new girls and do your best to cut her out of your life.
Author DigitalManDan Posted January 19, 2009 Author Posted January 19, 2009 Thing is i feel like if i cut my best friend out of my life I would be equally as depressed if not more and that could be a mistake. I do agree with the other things you mentioned, another girl would help. I think cutting way back on the how close we are might work but i dunno. I dont think it would have gone as far as it did (such as the cuddling and emotions back and forth) if there was absolutely nothing there at all or no chance what so ever. Maybe its just too soon still for her? Or maybe if she misses me for a bit...?
Beachead Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 If a relationship could bloom from this..it would be one damn good relationship. Unfortunately, it gets real complicated and messy like now. My best advice for you is to put every ounce of strength into cutting her out and meeting someone new..this is not what you want to hear I know. It's a proces that will take a lot of time and energy from you but I think this is your best chance of getting with her. She needs space and time to think..and you can't be there. She'll continue to limbo between you and her ex and remain confused. Being all up in the air..this will eat at you til you eventually lose it and cut her out anyway..by then it'll be on messed up terms. Don't let that happen..she is your bestfriend still..and I'm sure she doesn't want to do that or you don't want her to do it of all people. With you gone..she can trully make a decision..she'll see what it's like without you in her life and even worse..you being happy with another woman. For you, this will help ease that attachment that's killing you right now. Hate to say it..but ya gotta leave this one up to fate brah. My best wishes are with you and hope this works out.
Oliveman Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 It seems to me she's made it quite clear that she's not romantically into you. That thing she needs but doesn't have with you is called attraction. Face it...she's not attracted to you. And I don't mean she thinks you're ugly or something. Women are attracted to men, and you're not acting like a man right now. You're being needy and clingy...traits that aren't too becoming and will push girls away faster than anything else. I wouldn't be surprised if you were being jealous about her ex as well. If you want her in your life in any way whatsoever, you have to stop acting this way. Not saying to cut her out of your life, but treat her like a friend unless she wants other wise. Don't constantly text her and talk to her, give her some time to see what she's missing. She's probably not too upset about all this right now because she has her pretend boyfriend to take her out and show her a good time. The problem here isn't with her, it's about you. You need to step aside and work on your confidence. At this point your self worth seems to be next to nothing. Get a hobby and meet some new friends, go to the gym, sign up for group activities. Get a life of your own. Right now, she's seemingly your entire life. And you have to realize that if you want to be in a relationship with someone it has to be because they complement you and you want to be with them, not that you NEED to be with them. Those feelings are gonna push her away fast. Take some time off, work on becoming a better you, and everything will fall into place. Paradoxically the only way to get her is to realize you're whole as a person and don't need anyone else in your life.
peach15 Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 I think you should just try to accept that it probably isn't going to work out with her. Sounds like she is a very important person in your life, so I would remain friends with her but I wouldn't push things, I'd respect her feelings. I think if you try hard to meet someone else to date then this will be easier for you.
Island Girl Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Sorry but she isn't attracted to you at all. She doesn't want to out and out say that because she cares a great deal for you. She doesn't want to hurt your feelings. But she doesn't care in that way. It isn't something that will grow or change. It just isn't there. I've been in her position before and just the attempts instead of being honest ruined the friendship. Either that or they were only friends with me because they wanted me to be their girlfriend. Either way - it never ever worked out. You are trying to force something that can't be forced. You can't create that spark - the physical attraction. Like her I had a very particular type and it didn't matter how nice the guy was (in some cases it made it even worse) I wasn't attracted and couldn't be. I know it feels like you are within smidgens of having everything you could possibly dream of but if you don't back off and let her make a clear decision you will keep getting devastating blows. If you want to really know ask her point blank to tell you if she is sexually attracted to you or not. Tell her you really want the truth and that you will not think any different of her if she tells you - that you just want to know so you can look elsewhere for a romantic relationship. My inability to be completely honest with the guys I was friends with - because I felt it would really hurt them - ended up hurting them more and instead of one quick painful statement it was blow by blow by blow, etc. I hope she is honest with you.
Beachead Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 Hey bro, take it from me..I've been in you're position. I tried everything..and eventually as a last resort I did what oliveman is telling you to do now. I loved this girl hard bro but she wasn't giving me answers. That was 4 years ago..and now she wants to be in my life again. But guess what? I see her in a different light now because of the time spent away. It doesn't matter to me anymore and I know how to live without her in my life. This was a girl i thought i couldn't live without. The only way things will change is if you let her go. She cannot be in your life at this point. Take oliveman's advice..back then i hated advice like that..but now that i'm older..I realized i hated it cause it was the truth. Best of luck
Author DigitalManDan Posted January 19, 2009 Author Posted January 19, 2009 Would it be best to cut her out completely or to keep it really low key, not anywhere nearly as close as we were? I feel like cutting her out completely will probably make me even more depressed. Id also feel like a terrible person. I think if i just cut way back from the more than best friends inbetween thing to just the average friend, itll make her miss me and also keep me from getting hurt right now till she makes a decision. As of yesterday i told her not to talk to me for a bit because i need space and time. I know she does too. I think maybe i should atleast say something to her mid to late week so atleast she doesnt think i hate her or so she doesnt ended up resenting the fact that she chose to keep me in her life instead of staying with her bf. Maybe it would be best to keep things really distant for a couple weeks and then keep things at the really low key level until i see things materialize? Not sure how long to do this not talking thing and distance stuff for. I dont want to never see her again. I do need to man up though and keep my foot down.
Charles1978 Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 I had a similar situation, but I wasn't nearly as attatched as you seem to be. I just moved on, and it drove her nuts. Turns out she was dating someone and never told me. When she did, she threw herself at me and begged me to date her. However, I didn't want to at that time. We never spent a whole lot of time together... we'd fish together and go out together, but that was it. I saw other girls and I lived my own life. She eventually became interested in me sexually, so she would ask me sexual questions and we would both be open about it. But I had my own life, and she knew this. But because I did, and I have no problem whatsoever meeting women, she changed and wanted more with me. But the only way this is going to happen for you is if you move on. If she is truly interested in you, she will find a way back to you and it will be just what you want. Myself? Sure we've been intimate a few times, but to be honest, I lost interest in her indecisiveness. We still hang out and have fun from time to time, but a relationship may or may not happen. I just don't know yet. She wants one, but I'm not sure I do. Get out there, meet new girls and move on. That's the only way you'll get your answer. It might not be the answer you want, but it very well could be.
Beachead Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 No man, you have to cut her out..as painful as it is. She's clinging to this because she doesn't know whats good for her. She is confused at this point and you being there is just adding pressure. Who can make decisions under heavy pressure like that anyways? You being away from the picture will take the pressure off and she can naturally arrive to a decision with a clear head. It's better for her..and better for you. It's important for you to understand that any bit of contact that you got with her at this point is going to dramatize things and escalate to frustration because she won't figure her **** out. Trust me. You two will eventually burn out..bestfriends no more. Do this for the friendship. Down the road, ya'll will speak again. Just not now.
Author DigitalManDan Posted January 20, 2009 Author Posted January 20, 2009 The cutting her out thing brings more questions on such as for how long. Or like if she messages me or tries to communicate me do i respond? Eventually respond? I do have plenty of other things going on to keep me busy like working 40 hours a week, going to the gym, hanging out with other friends on weekends or even after work. I have plenty going on so its not that i dont have a life of my own that im not happy with. I think the thing is she doesnt really have much of her own life outside of mine and hasnt realized how much she needs me even tho she has realized how attached she is. I can realize it because i do have other things going on and i still have been attached to her. In that sense i do think time off again will help her realize things. Not sure that it would make her want me as a bf tho, but maybe eventually. However since i graduated from college a couple years ago i havent really met many new girls, or ones that ive been interested in. Its been hard even though i have a lot of friends that i hang out with when i can. If i had another girl i was remotely interested in to take my mind of her and possibly make her jealous, things would definitely be a lot easier for me right now. I do agree though cutting her out for at least the time being if not more seems to be the way i should go. One of the reasons why i posted on here tho was to see if there were any other possible alternatives besides the obvious that maybe havent been thought of yet. Like some sort of obscure thought outside the box with a possible chance.
EYECANDY000 Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 My best friend and I tried dating brfore and it just didnt work. Luckily, we ended up being friends afterwards. But things that I tolerated when we were friends , really annoyed me when we were together . which was the reason why we broke up.
Phateless Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Just make a move. You can waste YEARS of your life overanalyzing every little action and waiting for "the perfect opportunity" which will never arrive. At some point you have to just grow a pair of balls and kiss her. She wants a MAN who is not afraid of her.
socialight Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 phateless is right IMHO. Fish or cut bait. But no wishing washy waffling like you are doing now. You are disrespecting yourself.
Phateless Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Those two pages of details you want us to read are nothing more than your own excuses for being too afraid of rejection to do anything about how you feel. Case 1 - you kiss her and she kisses back. She's your girlfriend. YAY! Case 2 - you kiss her and she rejects you, explaining that she was never interested. You know how she feels, you have closure, you move on with your life, you meet someone who IS interested. YAY! Case 3 - you keep doing what you're doing and waste years and years of your life on this girl, never being man enough to make a move, MISSING OUT on other girls because you're caught up with this one. I'm 28, I've been through it and I know how to get out of it. How much time do you want to WASTE on fear and indecision? Sack up and KISS HER.
Author DigitalManDan Posted January 21, 2009 Author Posted January 21, 2009 So heres the weird thing about trying to kiss her. She told me a few months ago that there was a time about a year ago when she had wanted to kiss me, but she was affraid because she was still with her bf at the time. This was after me telling her that i had always thought about kissing her. Then like right after they broke up a couple months ago i tried kissing her; the first time she pulled away...couple hours later i snuck one in and she kissed back for a few seconds and then said it felt weird because it was immediately after he broke up with her. Then I tried talking to her about it again and she said it was still too soon and would feel weird about it. Then we were doing the cuddeling thing recently and i didnt want to push things or make her mad so i didnt go for it...but i should have. Then we argued about it and she said that she still would feel uncomfortable about it right now (this was a week ago) and said "i feel like u and i would be so good together but anytime one of us tries to make more that what it is i start feeling weird. i dont even get it. it still makes me feel uncomfortable and i know id be happy but im happy with u now as a friends all the extra stuff feels awkward sometimes cuz i feel something is missing and im not gonna feel comfortable till im supposed to. i love being around u and talking to u but the physical stuff is weird to me and i dont kno what to do about that" Its the weirdest thing cuz it seemed like ive been "smidgens" away. Like it never seemed completely out of the question like there was no way in hell. I need to make her feel comfortable with seeing me in that light some how. She apparently is having the hardest time seeing me any different than a best friend. Its weird to her. I know thats my own fault for getting into that zone. This is currently day 3 of not talking to her. Its not that she thinks kissing me would be gross, shes told me before she thought i was cute. we had masturbation conversations a couple times. I dont think we would have even been as close as best friends if there wasnt something there. Shes even said that everything is there between us besides that one thing. it just that she doesnt think of me that way and i have to change that some how if theres a way. Im hoping this cutting her out thing gets to her and works. Its like theres one small piece to the puzzle thats missing and its locked behind a door but i need to find the key. ugh so frustrating.
Phateless Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 You're trying too hard to win her approval. As evolved as we are, we still respond to our basic programming. You having the courage to kiss her will win her over. Take her out for a fun night, and when an opportunity comes, TAKE IT. You will never have a big flashing neon sign that says "IT'S OK TO KISS ME NOW! DON'T WORRY, I WON'T MIND. I WANT YOU TO." Instead, you'll have some lingering eye contact, your heads are already close, and you slowly move your lips to hers. Anytime her pupils are dilated, she's playing with her hair, her posture/body position is leaned towards you, she's fidgeting with her hands (maybe with her necklace), etc. There are a million unconscious tells that signal you that she's ready to be kissed. It's not her wanting you to kiss her. It's her being ready to BE KISSED. Meaning YOU kiss HER. DO IT!
Author DigitalManDan Posted January 21, 2009 Author Posted January 21, 2009 Think this is after cutting her out for a little bit or instead?
Phateless Posted January 21, 2009 Posted January 21, 2009 Think this is after cutting her out for a little bit or instead? Your call. Has she already given you the "let's just be friends" speech? If yes, go no contact and move on with your life. If no, then just go ahead with this.
Author DigitalManDan Posted February 8, 2009 Author Posted February 8, 2009 So im back once again, with an update because I am back to the point of not knowing what to do. To continue where I left off...I went that full week without talking to her once. She tried messaging me a couple time every other day though. Started off with her blocking me on the internet then with her saying i had some things of mine at her apartment and she wanted to know if she should throw them out or mail them back to me...neither of which she did. Then messages saying she absolutely hates this and wished i would respond to her. Then that friday night she had driven by my house a few times waiting for me to come home so she could talk to me. She even talked to my cousin about the situation (someone she doesnt normally like talking to). So that night we ended up missing each other at my house by like 15 minutes or so and when i heard that from her i finally responded. That weekend we talked about things and she said shes more miserable without me in her life and was willing to give things a try. So that week we did a lot of cuddling and she seemed cool with it and i even finally made the first move and kissed her. So we had made out few times around the end of that week. She did intiate some of the cuddling and some of the kissing even tho it was mostly me. Then that weekend she started getting super depressed because her ex bf was sending her the meanest messages ever saying that he hates her, saying how awful of a person she is, swearing at her...everything u could think of. She obvously shouldnt have kept him up to date on what me and her were doing, but shes to honest of a person when he asked. So all this fighting between them has been making her miss the happy times she had with him. She wanted to stay friends with him and keep him in her life but clearly shes learning she cant and she needs to get over him. She also feels alone in the world because her family lives two hours away and she doesnt have many friends around here. Its basically just me. Im defintely the only one she feels close enough to talk to about anything. Shes very depenant on me. So during this past week that shes been super miserable about that stuff we had still been cuddling kissing and we even slept over each others places a few times...but literally just fell asleep holding each other because she was so miserable. So it wasnt fun or anything. Then this weekend has kind of gone down the tubes...She said she still is having that terrible nervous/****ty feeling in her stomach and that jumping into something with me isnt helping her feel better about anything. She says she likes falling asleep with me and cuddling and that the kissing she sorta feels neutral about at this point. She does realize that we have been more than just best friends and that there is something there between us, but she has also said things like she doesnt have the butterfly feeling in her stomach about us which she insists she needs. I think its because her stomach has been flipping due to the ex bf stuff. She does like me shes said it. Apparently jumping into things though right now isnt helping and she needs to get over him first before anything she says. I feel like this could take a while. On the other hand i dont think that the "me and her" stuff is making her feel worse but i guess she says it makes her miss things with him cuz its how they used to be. I personally think everything just needs more time. More time for her to get over him and more time for her to give things a chance with me. She seems to be backing out on that though. At least for right now. She says she really needs her best friend back in order to get over the ex. Problem is...its the hardest thing in the world for me to just be friends with her without being miserable about not being able to be physical with her or without there being an "us". I just get depressed about it and its all i think about. So its like i need some sort of reasurance from her for right now while we were to just be friends that after she feels better shed be able to try things again. Something for me to hold onto so im not miserable. Otherwise i feel like i need to get over her and the only way to do that is by no contact which we both hate. I do feel really bad for and do want the best friend part of me to be there for her and help her get through. She would be a million times worse if i wasnt in her life and shes said it. I suppose i could try being the best friend for right now so that she can get over him and maybe move on to me. I think that would mean though far less time hanging out with her and less time talking to her so its easier for me i dunno. Or maybe there is some other sort of compromise where we both kind of win? Something from her and something from me? So...what do I tell her and what do I?
sumdude Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 You are in a no win scenario right now. She's not sure how she feels about you and her ex is being manipulative. You stay close friends? You will always have that wanting more feeling and will get more and more frustrated as well as holding yourself back from finding someone who is emotionally and physically available. You can't be just friends with this girl, that much is clear. You should tel her this because it's the truth. You keep going for more? She'll keep backing away and the ex drama will make things worse and worse. The advice given earlier is best... you know you can't just be her friend and she doesn't want more.. all you can to is walk away for your own good and hers as well. Maybe keep distant contact, get on with your life or you'll be stuck in this thing a while. Spell it out straight up. "I can't be just your friend anymore and you don't want more so I have to move along and do what's best for me."
Island Girl Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 So during this past week that shes been super miserable about that stuff we had still been cuddling kissing and we even slept over each others places a few times...but literally just fell asleep holding each other because she was so miserable. So it wasnt fun or anything. Then this weekend has kind of gone down the tubes...She said she still is having that terrible nervous/****ty feeling in her stomach and that jumping into something with me isnt helping her feel better about anything. She says she likes falling asleep with me and cuddling and that the kissing she sorta feels neutral about at this point. She does realize that we have been more than just best friends and that there is something there between us, but she has also said things like she doesnt have the butterfly feeling in her stomach about us which she insists she needs. If she was into you the messages from her ex wouldn't matter to her. She would NOT CARE. Of course she likes to be held and cuddled. That does not mean that she is liking you. Sorry to be blunt but I have been the girl in your same situation I do not know how many times. There were ALWAYS guys that I became friends with that wanted more. And a few times I tried to make it work because they were really good guys. We had fun together, we talked about everything (part of the problem) and I liked their attention to feel wanted and needed. Not only were the "butterflies" not there - there was actually a emotional vacuum that would suck any emotion out of me when things got physical. I acted exactly how she is acting and said what she is saying to you because I was not attracted to the guy. In the end they couldn't let it go. So we weren't friends anymore either. If you want to stay friends you need to let the idea that you could be her boyfriend go. She is not into you that way. And it won't "grow" or change at all. She just is not attracted to you.
Geraltt Posted February 8, 2009 Posted February 8, 2009 DMD, my friend, it's not happening. You're in the same dungeon that the rest of us have been imprisoned in at one time or another: (cue ominous music) The Friend Zone. You have three choices: You can wait and hope for the best, consistently seeking approval (which is exactly what you're doing now) and living in a world full of maybes for possibly years to come, and it will never, ever happen; You can man up and just kiss her dammit and gauge her reaction. Whatever reaction you get will be the right one; or, You can bid her a fond fare-thee-well and move on. After a brief time of healing, you'll meet someone that feels the same way about you as you do about her. Choice is yours.
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