Star Gazer Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Has anyone ever done this? I think I've written about this situation before, not sure. A good friend of mine is in a toxic relationship. Toxic is actually an understatement. Her BF basically cheated on her for 2.5 years by carrying on an entirely separate life/relationship with another girl (who he also lied to). She took him back, and let him invest in her company - which he is now running into the ground - so that they'd have a reason to stay together and so that she could keep an eye on him. They fight like cats and dogs - often about the other girl, but mostly about trust, being an ass, etc. They're often drunk when they fight, and it's ALWAYS melodramatic, and sometimes even involves HER hitting him. Her descriptions of their fights often sound like something out of a movie. Now he's back in contact with the girl he cheated with, and my friend is at a loss to stop it. I do NOT understand why she stays with him. She justifies it as that he is "worth fighting for," that he's "her one," that they are "meant to be," and just going through a difficult time. In short, I (and all of our friends) think he's a complete f**ktard, and waste of space. Four of us had dinner last night, and 1/3 of the evening's conversation centered on this sh*tty relationship. She said, "I know you all want to say I told you so, but yes, it's gotten worse," and goes on to explain what's been happening. And yet, she still wants to stay with him. She seems to conveniently forget fights...saying, "Oh we haven't fought like that ever." Then I'll remind her: "What about on Halloween? Or your birthday? Or the first weekend of December? And New Year's Eve?" to which she'll say, "Ohhh yeah, we did fight that bad that night." During dinner I literally tuned out - started staring at the wall, people walking by outside. I didn't want to hear about the drama. And that's all it is: DRAMA. I felt emotionally exhausted after dinner, and felt so thankful when I got home that I have such a wonderful, stable, supportive, awesome new BF who I absolutely know would never be such a f**ktard as my friend's BF. I can't take her seriously. She and I used to be really close. Now she's become much closer with another girl in our group, the girl who just listens and never has an opinion. What do I do? Just... stop talking to her? I honestly cannot deal.
Trialbyfire Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 This isn't just about him being a jerk but her for "needing" the drama. Does she create drama through other aspects of her life, like friendships and workplace?
Cherrybomb Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Been there. Done that. You may have to just walk away. You've done all you can, it's her life. You have no choice but to move away from the situation because there is nothing you can do. The only explanation I can think of is that some people like the excitement of the drama. Personally, I find it too emotionally exhausting. She may even enjoy complaining or talking about it in order to receive sympathy/support from others. Explain to her why you can't take it anymore then walk away for awhile and see what happens.
Author Star Gazer Posted January 15, 2009 Author Posted January 15, 2009 This isn't just about him being a jerk but her for "needing" the drama. I agree, and just told another friend as much. She agreed as well. I even told said f**ktard (when he tried to befriend me to get my *blessing* for her to get back together with him) that he's a sociopath who thrives on deceit. I also think my friend thrives on the drama in her relationship. Does she create drama through other aspects of her life, like friendships and workplace? As for friends, no. She's anti-confrontational. As for work, perhaps. Her old company shut down because of drama with another one of her business partners...and now she's creating drama in her new one by allowing him to invest in it. He's single-handedly destroying her new company, literally.
Trialbyfire Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 It's difficult to watch someone you care about, degenerate to this level of negative drama feed. You know there's nothing you can do about it. If you express too much, she'll turn on you and make you a demon. If you express too little, it feels like you're not doing enough to try to help her. Maybe let her know that if she's not going to do anything about it, it's difficult to listen and sympathize. If anything, maybe it's time to allow less contact to create a normal separation. It appears as if she's found a more willing listener, which sounds like what she wants right now. I'm guessing she needs to bottom out first, before she's willing to do anything about it. This is such a shame and a waste of someone who probably has a lot going for her.
Author Star Gazer Posted January 16, 2009 Author Posted January 16, 2009 Maybe let her know that if she's not going to do anything about it, it's difficult to listen and sympathize. Do you think I should actually say something to her?
Trialbyfire Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Do you think I should actually say something to her? You can see I'm torn about that. I would hate for her to think of you as an "enemy", when you were only expressing your honest opinion. Maybe it's best to just let some distance happen. Withdraw a bit from her and see if she reacts. If not, let more distance happen until you've got some breathing room. You may find that seeing her less, helps your negative feelings and you can take small bouts of her. While it's always nice to be there for people, there's only so much a person can take before you want to shake her and tell her to smarten up.
Author Star Gazer Posted January 16, 2009 Author Posted January 16, 2009 Well, actually... Since they got back together there's been a lot of distance between her and the rest of her friends. For example, we used to at text several times a day and see each other at least once a week. I always knew where she was, what she was up to, etc. Like I said, we were close. Now? Prior to last night I hadn't seen her since before Thanksgiving. So I guess the distance is already there. Hmph.
MindoverMatter Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 You know what I've found? People react much, much calmer to anything said in a letter, then they would if it was said in a normal conversation. Maybe it's the fact that writing a letter takes time and effort, and has become such a seldom treat nowadays...no idea, but for me it worked on a couple of occasions. Maybe you could write to her. Ease her into the tough love by telling her what you value in her and how it troubles you to see her in such a bad relationship.
Tony T Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 At the bottom all this is alcohol. I'd bet my life your friend is drinking a LOT more than you think and when people aren't looking. I've seen this sort of stuff happen before. It's shocking and heartbreaking when a great friend's behavior changes dramatically, no matter what the reason, and alcohol...or even drugs...are behind it. There's nothing in the world you can do but back off until she straightens herself out. If she's found a boyfriend who will drink with her and perpetuate the dysfunction, you may have lost a friend permanently. It will take her realization somewhere down the line to seek treatment for her issues. Don't make them yours in the meantime.
Geishawhelk Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Do you think I should actually say something to her? Regardless of your interim posts, I would reply "no" here, for two reasons: She's in a cyclical spiral of self-destruction, and she really can't see it or break out of it. The only way she'll step out of the vicious circle, is if she finally realises that she's just too dizzy to stand and know which way is up, any more. Secondly, she's an emotional vampire. She uses her drama to feed off of others' strengths, and basiclly recharges her batteries for more of the same, by sapping all her 'strong' friends of their forceful emotions. This is what you do at gatherings when the convo centres around her. It's feeding her need for validation and attention. You did the best thing possible by switching off. Ergo, the fall in contact. If she could get the same feedback from you as before, she'd be on that 'phone 10 times a day. But you've cut her off. And as such, have deprived her of a source of strength. She'll move on to some other unsuspecting soul.... Maybe if her options run out, and she finds herself battling this one on her own, she'll sober up and see the light.
birdie Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Secondly, she's an emotional vampire. She uses her drama to feed off of others' strengths, and basiclly recharges her batteries for more of the same, by sapping all her 'strong' friends of their forceful emotions. This is what you do at gatherings when the convo centres around her. It's feeding her need for validation and attention. I had a friend like that, she called me day after day telling me about her battles with abusive boyfriends and drained me with her negativity so much that I felt depressed being with her. then when she realised that I handled men differently from her, it got worse because she got angry with me and started trying to compete. it became really pittyful and I didn't know what to do about it anymore and I just cut her off. I got to the conclusion that there is no need to be apologetic about things like that, you cut unhealthy people out of your life because they try to bring you down with them.
Geishawhelk Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 you can tell a person is an emotional vampire when all the discussions you have with your SO revolve around the EV. Even when they're not there, and you haven't had contact with them for a day or 2. All you can do, is talk about their situation - what you think they should do, what you would do, what you think of what they're doing. The best way to 'fend off' a vampire is to fight fire with fire. Whenever the EV tells you about how miserable he or she is - you tell them how happy you are. You don't even comment or reply to their complaints. You just gloss over them, fly over them, and make like they were never said. I did this. With 2 different Emotional vampires. The thing that truly astonished me, more than anything else, was how virtually instantaneous the results were.
Author Star Gazer Posted January 16, 2009 Author Posted January 16, 2009 you can tell a person is an emotional vampire when all the discussions you have with your SO revolve around the EV. Even when they're not there, and you haven't had contact with them for a day or 2. All you can do, is talk about their situation - what you think they should do, what you would do, what you think of what they're doing. The best way to 'fend off' a vampire is to fight fire with fire. Ugh. I totally do that. My SO has heard me talk about her and her situation 3 times now. He actually told me that as soon as he met her - before I told him anything about her relationship crap - that he could tell she had a victim mentality. He's very perceptive. I think he's frustrated that I even care, as he (like myself) simply cannot understand what would keep someone in a relationship like that. Whenever the EV tells you about how miserable he or she is - you tell them how happy you are. You don't even comment or reply to their complaints. You just gloss over them, fly over them, and make like they were never said. Another girlfriend at the dinner table changed the subject to me and my lovelife - which is going very well. I think she did that to demonstrate to my drama-friend that good guys/good relationships do exist. My drama-friend seemed... resentful.
Ruby Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 I just spotted this thread and wondered how it is going? I know my friend feels like this about me at the moment as I have taken my bf back when I shouldnt have as he treated me bad
Geishawhelk Posted February 10, 2009 Posted February 10, 2009 Don't hyjack this one, hun..... Start a new thread.
onefunnybabe Posted February 11, 2009 Posted February 11, 2009 Why are you friends with someone like this? People sometimes change in friendships and we may have to let go of friendships because they are no longer fun. It's harsh but necessary. Even if she let herself get out of hand, you are not responsible so maybe just not being there may inspire her to clean up her act - or it may not but it is a situation where you need to walk away from. We've all lost friends for one reason or another. find new ones.
Virgo1982 Posted February 12, 2009 Posted February 12, 2009 But it's necessary to let go of her. If she is ever going to realize, you can reconcile when she gets herself together. I tried with a friend like that, but she turned on me. Even when I tried to listen, she seemed upset that I knew what SHE TOLD ME when they would get back together. Finally, I realized that it made her feel better to redirect negative energy and that she did not want-nor did she care for-a good friend. I also found that if I was having a rough time, she loved the company. But if anything good happened for me, she tried to force her misery on me. What's really sad is that she is completely oblivious and does not have a clear picture of who she is. Your friend will focus on the faults of others-her bf included-to avoid repairing her own damaged self. Like another poster said, she will get to a point where she can run no more. I don't know if you would be willing to befriend her again. I choose not to and do not foresee a change of heart. I even began to think they deserved each other. One of his friends might be on LS asking the same questions you are. He can change just as she can change. If you're thinking of ending the friendship, chances are, she's not a great girlfriend either. I hope she finds peace, but both of them need to make a change. They are both victims of themselves.
Author Star Gazer Posted February 12, 2009 Author Posted February 12, 2009 As an update: He's continuing to drive her business in to the ground. She's terrified of heights, and he convinced her to go sky diving last week. In addition, they just purchased a house together. Lovely.
panoramicsauce Posted February 13, 2009 Posted February 13, 2009 To look at the other side of the coin a little bit here... ...it's very possible that she has zero self-esteem and thinks that she has to fight for the one she loves because she won't ever have another chance. I'm not saying that doesn't make her a EV to a extent....but there's always the chance that she has no idea what else to do. In my personal opinion I would tell her that I was worried about her and find out exactly why she feels the need to be with him, every time she starts with the drama or the poor me attitude, I would redirect her away from it and just tell her you want to know the reasons, not the outcomes of specifics. And just cause he convinced her to go skydiving when she has a fear isn't a bad thing, A LOT of times we have to be pushed, hard, to get over fears! The tattoo on my wrist says "Let Go, Have No Fear", it's there to remind me that fear is natural and the only way to move forward in your life is to let go of it. Which by the way, might be something else she is feeling, fear. I don't know how much this actually helped you, but I just wanted to try!
Author Star Gazer Posted February 13, 2009 Author Posted February 13, 2009 ...it's very possible that she has zero self-esteem and thinks that she has to fight for the one she loves because she won't ever have another chance. Oh no. It's not "very possible" that she has zero self-esteem, it's a GIVEN. Who else would tolerate what she has? I've left out SO much, you have no idea. Her BF is the lowest of the low. In my personal opinion I would tell her that I was worried about her and find out exactly why she feels the need to be with him, every time she starts with the drama or the poor me attitude, I would redirect her away from it and just tell her you want to know the reasons, not the outcomes of specifics. She doesn't have a woah-is-me attitude about it. She explains that the reason she's with him is because "he is her one." That "love conquers all." That they "are soulmates." That they "are meant to be." That "he's a good guy deep down inside, he just needs another chance from someone who loves him as much as I do." And my personal favorite, "He just made a mistake. Everyone deserves forgiveness." A "mistake"? Sticking your d*ck in another woman for 2+ years and manipulating and lying and carrying on an entire other life for that period of time is not a "mistake." Ever hear a battered woman explain why she stays? That's the sort of thing that comes out of her mouth. Blech. If THAT is love... I don't want it. Ever.
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