D-day question

[LavendarGirl]

Hey fellow LS folks! Okay, fundamental questions here. What exactly is a D-day? Is that discovery day, as in MP tells BS about the A? Or does that encompass also a situation where MP tells BS that it's time for a D, but does not disclose the A?

 

Is there an advantage (to any/everyone involved) that the A is revealed to the BS?

 

Not plotting my future, just trying to understand.

[sandim]

D Day is the day that the affair is blown out of the water. Whether that means by the spouse telling their partner they are cheating, or it is through other means, it is the day the affair is confirmed and outted. It is very,very seldom that the cheating partner tells their SO that they are in fact , having an affair, cheating, whatever you want to call it. It would be far better for the cheating person to go to their partner and tell them, than it is for them to find out through friends, undeniable evidence, or workplace reveals. More often than not, they are caught somehow and the BS lets them know they are busted.

Most d days are horrible events, in the lives of everyone involved. And they usually don't play out quite the way that anyone would imagine they will.

S

[Geishawhelk]

Hey fellow LS folks! Okay, fundamental questions here. What exactly is a D-day? Is that discovery day, as in MP tells BS about the A? Or does that encompass also a situation where MP tells BS that it's time for a D, but does not disclose the A?

 

Is there an advantage (to any/everyone involved) that the A is revealed to the BS?

 

Not plotting my future, just trying to understand.

 

It's when the rubber hits the road and the deal gets blown out of the water.

 

Incidentally - and I hope this is ok - insofar as the WWII definition, the 'D' in 'D-Day' stands for - Day - !

 

It was the day the whole plan went into operation. Therefore 3 days before, it would have been Day-3. But 4 days after, it would have been Day+4. So D-Day meant - "surf's up! let's go!!"

[LavendarGirl]

Ah, okay, that would make sense. Thanks Sandim. Yes, I'd imagine that the vast many affairs that are revealed are actually discovered by the BS, and not that the MP 'fessed up proactively.

[whichwayisup]

Is there an advantage (to any/everyone involved) that the A is revealed to the BS?

 

What do you mean by this? Are you asking if the OW/OM has an advantage once D-Day occurs?

[LavendarGirl]

What do you mean by this? Are you asking if the OW/OM has an advantage once D-Day occurs?

 

My meaning is probably irrelevant at this point, WWIU, because I had thought D-Day was when a MP went to a BS and said they want out (of the M). But it's actually the day an affair is revealved.

 

But my original meaning is if a MP goes to a BS and says they want out of the M, is it better for everyone involved that the A is revealed? And in that, I mean, is it better for the BS to know the divorce was brought forth by an affair...is it better for the MP. I am not really thinking if it is better for the OP. But again, that point is moot.

[jj33]

I would say not. If you want out of a marriage the WHY does not matter does it?

 

The fact is you want out. And its not because of the A. Its the reasons that led to the A. Its very cowardly in my view to say I want out because I had an affair. Its like saying I have no responsiiblity for my feelings or my failure to work on the reelationship.

 

its hard enough on most spouses to hear the marriage is ending why throw salt on the wound and say and by the way I am in love with someone else.

 

Not to mention the fact that most divorce lawyers would discourage a client from divulging the A as it can make the BS more difficult to deal with in negotiating a property settlement.

 

Im sure BSs will feel differently but really Lavendar from your point of view WHY would you want him to throw that in her face? It doesnt help you at all.

 

And really it doesnt help the BS at all. There are reasons the person had the A reasons the marriage wasnt working but the A is not the reason someone gets divorced. It might be a catalyst but if the man was happy in his marriage he wouldnt have had an A and would not be seeking a divorce.

 

And to answer your question it is MUCH worse for the WS. NOTHING at all to gain from it other than hurting the BS.

 

People may say they want to know but really does it matter WHEN? If you never knew that your spouse fell in love with someone else would your life be poorer for having been spared that pain and being able to live with the idea that the marriage just wasnt working? rather than knowing he had so little respect for you and the marriage and was so bad at dealing with difficult issues that he went outside the marriage to meet his needs?

 

I cant imagine that is information ANYONE needs.

 

And I am not bashing you here but you say you dont care for the OW/OM but you clearly dont care for the BS (or you wouldnt be in the A in the first place a bit late to look after her welfare) and if you care for the H then its indirectly for you because you expect to build a life with him. Just saying admit when you are asking for your own reasons - dont sugar coat it. Its disingenuous. And its OK to wonder about things that impact your future. If you dont who will?

[Owl]

I'm going to have to disagree with JJ.

 

The "why" is critically important to the BS.

 

Ending a long-term committed relationship is painful enough. But then to leave the uncertainty, the doubt created by not giving an explanation is a double trauma.

 

It leaves the BS feeling that it was all their fault. That they could/should have done THIS better, or THAT more often. It leaves them guessing, and given the damage done to their self-esteem by the ending of the marriage, they will blame themselves for the whole problem.

 

That's why you'll here all the stories of BS's who aren't told the reason digging all over the place trying to find answer to that question..."WHY".

 

Because for them, it IS tremendously important.

 

Does it mean that they're going to be relieved to hear that it was due to cheating? Not at all...not one little bit. But then they're not spending all that time trying to GUESS at reasons why it happened.

 

It gives them the truth on what happened in the relationship...on why the WS got so distant and cold. It explains to them all that led up to this choice that they were guessing at.

 

Look at it this way...it's part of that 'closure' you hear touted so much on this board. OW/OM look for it all the time on why the WS ended the affair and went back to their spouses (when that happens)...this is the exact same thing for the BS's when it happens the other way.

[LavendarGirl]

Hi jj,

Not trying to sugar coat anything here. I'm not asking what the situation would be for the OW, simply because as the OW I have a pretty good perspective as an OW from where I sit.

 

Not trying to minimize the impact a divorce would have on the BS, either. In my A with my MM...here we are, aren't we. Too late to pretend like nothing's happened. The next question is where to go from here. Ball's in his court, he needs to pick either her or me. Certainly if he is divorcing her, it is going to hurt her. And as well, if he were to continue in his M and work on that relationship (and put our A behind him), she could get hurt down the road were she ever to discover he had an A.

[whichwayisup]

And as well, if he were to continue in his M and work on that relationship, she could get hurt down the road were she ever to discover he was having an A.

 

If that happens and he chooses his marriage over you, then what happens between them shouldn't matter to you. You and her husband are hurting her NOW but she isn't aware of the pain around the corner.

 

Has your MM told you he is about to divorce and sell the house? If their marriage wasn't on the rocks before you came into the picture and he is divorcing her to be with you (main reason WHY he is leaving her) then she needs to know the truth as to why her husband is leaving. But, he has to be the one to tell her, not you.

[LavendarGirl]

If that happens and he chooses his marriage over you, then what happens between them shouldn't matter to you. You and her husband are hurting her NOW but she isn't aware of the pain around the corner.

 

Has your MM told you he is about to divorce and sell the house? If their marriage wasn't on the rocks before you came into the picture and he is divorcing her to be with you (main reason WHY he is leaving her) then she needs to know the truth as to why her husband is leaving. But, he has to be the one to tell her, not you.

 

Honestly, my OP was in understanding what D-day means exactly. And in a forum of OP/MP/BPs (which is a rare commune), the different experiences and perspectives. I wasn't asking to plot my own course of action (or that of the MM I am involved with).

 

In my own personal situation as the OW, I have told MM he needs to make THE decision. And until then, no PA (which given our geographical separation, is very easy to maintain PA). And if he were to decide to keep his M and go forward with his W, I have told him he needs to give me up completely and totally, not fair to either women involved in his life.

 

Yes, I do agree, what he is doing is hurting his W, whether she is aware or not. He cannot be emotionally vested in me and be a true husband to his wife. I get that.

 

If he were to chose to divorce, I don't -personally- see any value in his telling his W about our A. I have, however, seen on LS that BSs state that they'd want to know about their WSs affairs (whether they are divorcing or they are repairing their marriage), and I have been curious about that.

 

I was the BS once upon a time, but it was with a serial cheater who didn't mend his ways. I divorced him, not for any one particular affair, though.

 

And no, I have no intention, now or ever, of disclosing our affair to his wife.

[jj33]

Lav Im sure this is a difficult time waiting to see what he will decide. It sounds like you have a good network of activities and interests to keep you going. I hope this part of it ends soon.

 

I wouldnt expect a D day if I were you. He has been in Iraq, they have been apart and if he does decide to divorce there may be a million other reasons.

[LavendarGirl]

Lav Im sure this is a difficult time waiting to see what he will decide. It sounds like you have a good network of activities and interests to keep you going. I hope this part of it ends soon.

 

I wouldnt expect a D day if I were you. He has been in Iraq, they have been apart and if he does decide to divorce there may be a million other reasons.

 

Thank you, jj. If a d-day means the W finds out about the A, no I don't want one!! But as far as my MM deciding which side of the fence to fall..I'm just going to stick it out and see what may happen. Too many years caught up in my feelings for him, I can wait another couple of months to see.

[Owl]

Lav, a minor flaw in your logic.

 

You've stated that:

In my own personal situation as the OW, I have told MM he needs to make THE decision. And until then, no PA (which given our geographical separation, is very easy to maintain PA). And if he were to decide to keep his M and go forward with his W, I have told him he needs to give me up completely and totally, not fair to either women involved in his life.

 

But here's the thing...you're not actually giving him any reason to change the situation. If you're geographically seperated, and therefor the PA is hard to do ANYWAY...all you've got left for him to stay for is the EA.

 

You really should tell him "NC until you're seperated and the divorce is filed".

 

Anything less just feeds his cake-eating behaviors.

 

People CHANGE for two reasons...to get something they want, or to get away from something that they don't like.

 

It's clear that the pain of his marriage isn't sufficient to force him to take action...so the only reason he'd have for change is to get something he wants. Since he's already getting all that he can get from you...what's his motivation for change?

[LavendarGirl]

Lav, a minor flaw in your logic.

 

You've stated that:

 

 

But here's the thing...you're not actually giving him any reason to change the situation. If you're geographically seperated, and therefor the PA is hard to do ANYWAY...all you've got left for him to stay for is the EA.

 

You really should tell him "NC until you're seperated and the divorce is filed".

 

Anything less just feeds his cake-eating behaviors.

 

People CHANGE for two reasons...to get something they want, or to get away from something that they don't like.

 

It's clear that the pain of his marriage isn't sufficient to force him to take action...so the only reason he'd have for change is to get something he wants. Since he's already getting all that he can get from you...what's his motivation for change?

 

Owl, good points. Though once he returns from Iraq in the spring, PA could be possible, but I am saying no. But I see your logic here. Let me chew on that for a while.

[Adunaphel]

But my original meaning is if a MP goes to a BS and says they want out of the M, is it better for everyone involved that the A is revealed? And in that, I mean, is it better for the BS to know the divorce was brought forth by an affair...is it better for the MP.

 

MM I am in a relationship with did wonder the very same thing.

The day he said BS he considered the marriage over (the affair had only started) he chose not to tell her about the affair, expecially because he did not want her to feel that the fact that he wanted out of the marriage had anything to do with the affair.

He did not do anything to *really* hide the affair, though.

(I guess that after you tell your spouse that you consider the marriage over, that you still care for her but in a different way and you do not love her anymore, and you'd like to start leading separate lives, than you occasionally leave for a few days giving little or no explanation, you are not exactly hiding the affair. And he never got any direct questions.)

I felt relieved to know that a few days ago MM and his W had a talk and among other things she said it is clear to her that he is seeing someone else, and she'd rather not know anything about it.

At least I know for sure that she knows.

[frannie]

I can see the reason for the question (I think), because d-day could be thought to mean 'divorce day' (?), whereas it means something like 'disclosure-day' (or something like that?). Anyway, in affair terms it refers to the day on which the BS finds out (in whatever way) that there has been an affair/s.

 

I'm going to have to disagree with JJ.

 

The "why" is critically important to the BS.

 

Ending a long-term committed relationship is painful enough. But then to leave the uncertainty, the doubt created by not giving an explanation is a double trauma.

 

It leaves the BS feeling that it was all their fault. That they could/should have done THIS better, or THAT more often. It leaves them guessing, and given the damage done to their self-esteem by the ending of the marriage, they will blame themselves for the whole problem.

 

That's why you'll here all the stories of BS's who aren't told the reason digging all over the place trying to find answer to that question..."WHY".

 

Because for them, it IS tremendously important.

 

Does it mean that they're going to be relieved to hear that it was due to cheating? Not at all...not one little bit. But then they're not spending all that time trying to GUESS at reasons why it happened.

 

It gives them the truth on what happened in the relationship...on why the WS got so distant and cold. It explains to them all that led up to this choice that they were guessing at.

 

Look at it this way...it's part of that 'closure' you hear touted so much on this board. OW/OM look for it all the time on why the WS ended the affair and went back to their spouses (when that happens)...this is the exact same thing for the BS's when it happens the other way.

 

And everyone is always saying, 'well whaddya need closure for: make your own closure!'... does that only apply to OW, then , wives get to ask for and get closure and disclosure and whatever else?

 

Of course people want to know whatever gets them to the point at which they can leave the past behind. Some people need/want more information, others can get to that mindset pretty much on their own: if he's leaving, that's all I need to know. That's why there's no blanket answer to this: some BS would probably want to know, others wouldn't (e.g the BS in Adunaphel's situation).

 

If he were to chose to divorce, I don't -personally- see any value in his telling his W about our A.

 

From what I've seen... if a man goes to his wife and asks for a D, the very first thing she's going to think is: he's found someone else. Because men very very rarely get divorced unless there is someone out there already. So 'I want a divorce' usually ends up with a d-day anyway (he ends up spilling the beans, or she starts trawling for evidence)... or firm suspicions and the next 'new' g/f he has comes under the microscope.

 

I know this isn't always the case, but so often it is.

[NoIDidn't]

And everyone is always saying, 'well whaddya need closure for: make your own closure!'... does that only apply to OW, then , wives get to ask for and get closure and disclosure and whatever else?

 

Yes, I think that applies mostly to OPs as they rarely have shared an entire life with the MM. A W has (usually) vowed to be with him "until death" and if the marriage is to end before then has every right to know why (if they want to know why, that is).

 

The AP. Not so much. No vows. No rights. No (real) responsibilities. Sure, its not fair. But it is what it is.

 

 

From what I've seen... if a man goes to his wife and asks for a D, the very first thing she's going to think is: he's found someone else. Because men very very rarely get divorced unless there is someone out there already. So 'I want a divorce' usually ends up with a d-day anyway (he ends up spilling the beans, or she starts trawling for evidence)... or firm suspicions and the next 'new' g/f he has comes under the microscope.

 

I know this isn't always the case, but so often it is.

 

So true. Its exactly what I thought, and I turned out to be correct. LOL. Not that its a laughing matter.

[frannie]

Yes, I think that applies mostly to OPs as they rarely have shared an entire life with the MM. A W has (usually) vowed to be with him "until death" and if the marriage is to end before then has every right to know why (if they want to know why, that is).

 

The AP. Not so much. No vows. No rights. No (real) responsibilities. Sure, its not fair. But it is what it is.

 

Maybe no 'rights' as such, but what 'rights' do we have over any other human being, no matter if we're married to them or not? I was talking about what needs we have as individuals in order to get past a failed relationship. What do we feel we need to know, what will help us put it all into context, to understand, learn and let go? Those aren't 'rights' but needs.