Is it wrong to hold out for a looker?

[Star Gazer]

Let me make something clear.

 

I'm NOT looking for "the one." I'm not even looking for a serious relationship. I know for certain that there will be other girls.

 

If you're only looking for a "good time," then there's no harm in limiting who you have a good time with. Just know that your pool of women will be much smaller.

 

Say I pursue this girl, we like each other, we get closer emotionally, kiss, and eventually have sex. I'm attracted to her, but not like I am with other girls. Say she eventually wants to be bf/gf, but I'm not sure since I feel like I can find someone I'm more attracted to. I'll be stuck in an odd situation since I don't want to hurt her.

 

On the other hand, I feel that if I do get somewhere with a moderately attractive girl, I'll feel much better about myself and my confidence will skyrocket. I want that to happen, but I don't want to use this girl for my own means. That's just selfish.

 

Because you're not looking for a relationship, you MUST communicate that to the girl BEFORE you get close emotionally and most certainly before sleeping with her. Otherwise, you WILL be using her.

 

Also, the thought of using (yes, USING) a "hot girl" to boost your ego, knowing full well that you have no intentions of a relationship... is kinda...

[Trialbyfire]

I agree that if you're not looking for commitment, let it be known upfront. If she agrees to it, then you have an FWB scenario. Anything that happens after that, including you falling and her not, is the risk you take.

[The Collector]

If it's wrong, I don't want to be right.

 

But she also has to be very intelligent, very funny, moral and not a psycho.

[kashmir]

So what are you looking for then? Fun and sex only?

 

Nothing wrong with that, but bear in mind that many people out there are seeking a future spouse more than just a "good time for now".

 

If all you want is a "good time for now", then by all means wait for a looker. Why waste your time on someone you're "eh" about if you want to get laid? Hold out and shoot for the girls you really want to nail. Just be honest with them though if you see they are wanting more than you're willing to give.

 

There is a price one pays for wanting a non-commitment life.

 

If you're only looking for a "good time," then there's no harm in limiting who you have a good time with. Just know that your pool of women will be much smaller.

 

 

 

Because you're not looking for a relationship, you MUST communicate that to the girl BEFORE you get close emotionally and most certainly before sleeping with her. Otherwise, you WILL be using her.

 

Also, the thought of using (yes, USING) a "hot girl" to boost your ego, knowing full well that you have no intentions of a relationship... is kinda...

 

I've tried to explain this many times, but everyone interprets it to the extreme.

 

I'm not only out for sex. I don't know what I want right now, that's my point. If I like a girl enough to be exclusive with her, so be it, but I'm not out to find a girlfriend or just to get laid. I'm out to find whatever comes to me, and once I find it then I'll decide what to do with it.

 

And where did I say I would use a hot girl to boost my ego? If I found a hot girl who was also smart and a pleasure to be around, by god...I wouldn't think of just USING her. I would want something with her.

[AlektraClementine]

OK - so here's what I suggest. Date anyone and everyone. Pretty or average. Take 'em as they come. When/If you find one that sticks....stick with her.

 

You do realize you can do both right? Date average looking girls and hot girls simultaneously. You don't have to "hold out" for the lookers. Just be non-committal. And you can do that without being a player.

[kashmir]

Could it be that because you find a girl a bit less attractive, you suddenly feel less pressure and unconsciously behave in a totally relaxed way around her? Hence average looking girls feeling a better vibe about you and expressing more attraction towards you?

 

When you a see a girl you find pretty, do you tense up a little more than around average girls?

 

No. I know this for a fact. Talking to a stunningly attractive girl is the same as talking to an unattractive girl.

 

This is my theory - girls who are more attractive get more attention from guys and have more options without really having to do any work. They reason "Why show interest in that guy? If he likes the way I look he'll pursue me" and thus they'll pretty much do nothing even in the distant presence of a guy they find attractive. I'm not even talking about approaching guys, but even just looking at them or smiling at them...distant and non-verbal flirting. With girls who aren't as attractive, they need to resort to some distant flirting since they don't get as much attention. When they see a guy they like, they'll consistently look at a guy from a distance and maybe give him a smile or two.

 

This doesn't even take shyness into consideration, which will inhibit these distant signals even more. I've had many average to unattractive girls and women (of many ages) obviously flirt with me in this manner - ie, only for my looks, because it's the only thing they can see from a distance. My personality or charisma has nothing to do with a girl who smiles at me from across the room. This happens daily, usually several times. Is it possible that there are more attractive girls who are just hiding their attraction for me, or is it possible to JUST attract average looking women, even when you tend to attract a lot of them?

[Star Gazer]

I'm not only out for sex. I don't know what I want right now, that's my point. If I like a girl enough to be exclusive with her, so be it, but I'm not out to find a girlfriend or just to get laid. I'm out to find whatever comes to me, and once I find it then I'll decide what to do with it.

 

Here's the kicker: If you fall for a girl, it won't matter to you that there are objectively more attractive other women out there.

 

And where did I say I would use a hot girl to boost my ego? If I found a hot girl who was also smart and a pleasure to be around, by god...I wouldn't think of just USING her. I would want something with her.

 

Uh, right here, when you said:

 

On the other hand, I feel that if I do get somewhere with a moderately attractive girl, I'll feel much better about myself and my confidence will skyrocket. I want that to happen, but I don't want to use this girl for my own means. That's just selfish.

 

You think being with an attractive girl will boost your confidence. If you thus "hold out" for a very attractive girl, you'd be using her under those circumstances.

[GoodOnPaper]

K,

 

Sounds like you are trying to identify Miss Perfect at the time you ask her out on the first date. My approach to dating was very similar -- VERY ineffective.

 

. . . I don't know what I want right now, that's my point.

 

All the more reason to "practice". Get to know many women. I like this idea:

 

OK - so here's what I suggest. Date anyone and everyone. Pretty or average. Take 'em as they come. When/If you find one that sticks....stick with her.

 

Reminds me of a dating seminar I read about that had a "Twelve First Dates in Twelve Weeks" exercise. The idea was to help guys get a more well-rounded picture of what attracts them, how they connect with women, etc.

[EYECANDY000]

No matter who you date you are always going to find something about them that turns you off. and therefore you have to resist the rge of trying to find it in someone else. There will always be someone else more prettier, smarter, educated etc.

 

Im not saying settle, but continue to date and find what interest you and what you like.

[OneTwo]

The problem is that you will never be able to have any sort of normal relationship with these types of women as they are incorrigible and morally bankrupt. Plus they are usually desperate and that's how they got into the situation they are in. Oh wait, you said "looker". I thought you said something esle.....

[D-Jam]

kashmir, we're not judging you. It sounds like you want to engage in casual sex and dating. You can keep trying to dress this up any way you want, but you're playing the game of dating without exclusivity, and then perhaps get exclusive if you think she's the one.

 

Sounds like you're perfectly normal then. You want to date around until you find someone who you really want an exclusive RL with.

 

All I'm saying (and others too) is to stay honest with these women and not let things go too far if you can see she's not "girlfriend material" for you.

 

Most of the complaints I've heard come out of women about men lately have been men they spent weeks or months dating, slept with, got close to, and all of a sudden he's saying he doesn't want a RL or anything. Doesn't mean he's against commitment, but he doesn't want exclusivity with her, but maybe is waiting for someone else...a "bigger better deal".

 

So then she's angry, hurt, and feeling used because she thought this was going to lead somewhere, when it didn't. He's taken the stance that she's assuming too much early on. All I'm saying is for the better of humanity and just to keep drama out of your life, be careful how much you do with women if you have no intentions of taking it to a commitment level.

 

Btw - how did you meet your gf? I'm envious of your relationship. I hate casual dating.

Sorry to make you envious. I hate casual dating too.

 

I met her 6 months ago through a friend. My friend is my buddy's GF, and she works with my now girlfriend. My gf was a year out of her divorce, over it all, and living her life. My friend thought we would click well, so she urged us both to come out for coffee.

 

She was reluctant, but she went. I went with an open mind. I saw it as if we didn't click deeply, she and I could at least be friends and I end up knowing new people. When we met she seemed to like me immediately. How I looked, acted, etc. I was at first reluctant because she mentioned her recent divorce and even plans to go away to dental school in a year. We went out on a few dates, and things clicked well. About a month later she told me she loved me and I decided to take it to exclusivity (not like I was out looking for other women anyway )

 

I'll be honest, I care about her deeply and am not afraid to use the word "love", but I am still a tiny bit on the defense. People think she's the one and I'll end up marrying her, but I more see it as "anything can happen" in the time she's off at dental school.

 

She's now looking into joining the Navy to have them pay for dental school. She would also have to serve for 4 years after that as a dentist in the Navy. So she'll be in San Francisco in dental school for 4 years with us visiting back and forth, and then who knows where the Navy will put her. In that time, anything could happen. She could lose interest, or meet another guy, or something. I guess while I like her a lot, I keep a small lifeline on me emotionally in case it all changes. I've been in situations like this before with past girlfriends changing their mind over the course of years.

 

In the end though, I'm not worrying about it, but enjoying it all for what it is. If we do get through all that and are together, strong, etc...I'll so marry her.

[movingonandon]

If you're only looking for a "good time," then there's no harm in limiting who you have a good time with. Just know that your pool of women will be much smaller.

 

 

 

Because you're not looking for a relationship, you MUST communicate that to the girl BEFORE you get close emotionally and most certainly before sleeping with her. Otherwise, you WILL be using her.

 

Also, the thought of using (yes, USING) a "hot girl" to boost your ego, knowing full well that you have no intentions of a relationship... is kinda...

 

I remain perpetually baffled why having sex *should* include the intent of a relationship, and when it doesn't how come it is such a horrible, *horrible* thing. I do communicate if I'm not interested in a long term relationship before going to bed with a girl. But I don't think I (or the OP) *should* do it. If a girl likes him enough to sleep with him, it is HER not HIS responsibility to be in charge of her feelings and to deal with the normal risk of nothing coming out of this hook up. Jesus, can we relax a little already?

[AlektraClementine]

movingon... You make a very logical argument. I think though it has something to do with the differences in genders. Women just get more attached than men do when sex is a factor early on if we're talking numbers here.

 

I think some people think it's just a common courtesy for folks not into long term to disclose that info. You said that you disclose it. Why?

 

Now, with that said.. I am always very quick to advise women who are looking for a relationship to also disclose this fact to any man she might engage in sex with so as not to "trick" him into thinking she's Kool and the Gang about things when she's not. To me, that's just as deceptive as a man not offering the same disclosure.

[Star Gazer]

I remain perpetually baffled why having sex *should* include the intent of a relationship, and when it doesn't how come it is such a horrible, *horrible* thing. I do communicate if I'm not interested in a long term relationship before going to bed with a girl. But I don't think I (or the OP) *should* do it. If a girl likes him enough to sleep with him, it is HER not HIS responsibility to be in charge of her feelings and to deal with the normal risk of nothing coming out of this hook up. Jesus, can we relax a little already?

 

I'll tell you why. Men and women think differently. You know this. You also know that MOST women equate sex with a relationship. You kalso now that when a woman likes a man enough to sleep with him, in MOST instances she's hoping/expecting for a relationship. You also obviously know this, thus why you tell them you're not interested in a relationship prior to bedding them. That is why you *should* continue telling the women you bed beforehand what you are and are not up for.

 

Now, does the responsibility to establish those boundaries rest solely with the man? No. But to court her, stash tampons at your house for her, let her "mark her territory" AND sleep with her on a regular basis would mean nothing less than you were leading her on to believe she was either in a relationship or one was on the horizon.

[Star Gazer]

It sounds like you want to engage in casual sex and dating. You can keep trying to dress this up any way you want, but you're playing the game of dating without exclusivity, and then perhaps get exclusive if you think she's the one.

 

Sounds like you're perfectly normal then. You want to date around until you find someone who you really want an exclusive RL with.

 

All I'm saying (and others too) is to stay honest with these women and not let things go too far if you can see she's not "girlfriend material" for you.

 

Most of the complaints I've heard come out of women about men lately have been men they spent weeks or months dating, slept with, got close to, and all of a sudden he's saying he doesn't want a RL or anything. Doesn't mean he's against commitment, but he doesn't want exclusivity with her, but maybe is waiting for someone else...a "bigger better deal".

 

So then she's angry, hurt, and feeling used because she thought this was going to lead somewhere, when it didn't. He's taken the stance that she's assuming too much early on. All I'm saying is for the better of humanity and just to keep drama out of your life, be careful how much you do with women if you have no intentions of taking it to a commitment level.

 

Precisely.

[Jersey Shortie]

So what are you looking for then? Fun and sex only?

 

Nothing wrong with that, but bear in mind that many people out there are seeking a future spouse more than just a "good time for now".

 

If all you want is a "good time for now", then by all means wait for a looker. Why waste your time on someone you're "eh" about if you want to get laid? Hold out and shoot for the girls you really want to nail. Just be honest with them though if you see they are wanting more than you're willing to give.

 

There is a price one pays for wanting a non-commitment life.

 

I think this is most excellent advice.

 

If you are with a girl you feel that you are settling for you are doing yourself and her a a huge disservice. You should let her find a man that really feels the way about her she deserves and not only medicore.

[movingonandon]

movingon... You make a very logical argument. I think though it has something to do with the differences in genders. Women just get more attached than men do when sex is a factor early on if we're talking numbers here.

 

I think some people think it's just a common courtesy for folks not into long term to disclose that info. You said that you disclose it. Why?

 

Now, with that said.. I am always very quick to advise women who are looking for a relationship to also disclose this fact to any man she might engage in sex with so as not to "trick" him into thinking she's Kool and the Gang about things when she's not. To me, that's just as deceptive as a man not offering the same disclosure.

 

Well, as you said - I think its common courtesy to disclose, plus I've finally reached an age when I wouldn't do whatever it takes, even if it's deception, just to have sex, so it's not a big deal to talk about it. But I still think I'm not and should not be "obliged" or even "expected" to do it. Such expectation merely reinforces the unfair and unrealistic stereotype that men are predators that just burn through women for whatever egoistical reasons (and women passively stay on the sidelines, with wide open eyes, wanting nothing more but to be loved...)... Sure, some are, and so are some women. By extension, implying that casual dating/sex are predatorial is silly IMO...

 

As for women getting more attached through sex then men - I've heard it many times and I don't know whether to believe it. First, men get attached through sex too! Second, even if it was true, are we not evolved enough to show Biology who's da boss? We are not Biology's bitchezz anymore, it's the other way around... So, whatever chemicals get released in people's brains, that's no reason to not utilize our ability to be self-aware and in charge of our feelings...

[Girlygirl1977]

All interesting stuff. And I agree again with you movingonandon.

 

I actually think I can have sex without a relationship but that's not my aim these days since that would sidetrack me from finding a real relationship. I probably get more attached from simple time together and contact. So I think if a girl is not for long-term that is something to consider. Do not be intense in your frequency of seeing her (i.e. like 3x/week) or be in regular contact (at least 1x a day), if you do not want something more b/c that time together and contact will make someone attached.

 

That would have more an effect on me than 1x a week sex relationship without much else. I do also think women have that resonsibility to look out for themselves based on their personality. I've posted about my stuff but I'm really laughing vs. crying when I look at it. You have to know your self. I"m pretty introspective which is why I'm posting - i.e. trying to learn lessons from everything I do so that I can avoid a repeat if/when possible.

[AlektraClementine]

Well, as you said - I think its common courtesy to disclose, plus I've finally reached an age when I wouldn't do whatever it takes, even if it's deception, just to have sex, so it's not a big deal to talk about it. But I still think I'm not and should not be "obliged" or even "expected" to do it. Such expectation merely reinforces the unfair and unrealistic stereotype that men are predators that just burn through women for whatever egoistical reasons (and women passively stay on the sidelines, with wide open eyes, wanting nothing more but to be loved...)... Sure, some are, and so are some women. By extension, implying that casual dating/sex are predatorial is silly IMO...

 

As for women getting more attached through sex then men - I've heard it many times and I don't know whether to believe it. First, men get attached through sex too! Second, even if it was true, are we not evolved enough to show Biology who's da boss? We are not Biology's bitchezz anymore, it's the other way around... So, whatever chemicals get released in people's brains, that's no reason to not utilize our ability to be self-aware and in charge of our feelings...

 

 

Haha. You sound a lot like me. To tell you the truth, my instinct is to question our behavior vs evolution and get all bent out of shape about it as well. BUT then there's empathy. AND I feel like I've been "duped" by enough guys in my lifetime to say with all honesty... there are a lot more guys out there preying on women for sex than their female counterparts. Not to suggest that it never happens the other way around but it is a whole lot less.

 

Alas, we're getting off topic though aren't we....

[movingonandon]

I'll tell you why. Men and women think differently. You know this. You also know that MOST women equate sex with a relationship. You kalso now that when a woman likes a man enough to sleep with him, in MOST instances she's hoping/expecting for a relationship. You also obviously know this, thus why you tell them you're not interested in a relationship prior to bedding them. That is why you *should* continue telling the women you bed beforehand what you are and are not up for.

 

Now, does the responsibility to establish those boundaries rest solely with the man? No. But to court her, stash tampons at your house for her, let her "mark her territory" AND sleep with her on a regular basis would mean nothing less than you were leading her on to believe she was either in a relationship or one was on the horizon.

 

 

Well, that's much better way to put it, and is all true, I agree. But (dating) relationships these days start so quickly, that I don't think that most people are able to determine UPFRONT whether the person they're currently dating is LTR material. That's the only reason why I think that during the first couple of months at least nobody should have any particular expectations. So, in my case, although I do not have the UPFRONT expectation of a relationship, I hope to be surprised. And if I'm not and decide to terminate the relationship a couple of months later, does this still mean I've used her? Of course not. For whatever gender differences reasons women might be more likely to WANT a LTR upfront, but objectively speaking, there are no rational reasons to want or assume that...

 

Of course, the scenario of deceiving a girl that you want a relationship with her when you're absolutely, positively, beyond-any-reasonable doubt, certain that you do not want a relationship with her, is not excusable, but I think that it is probably an extreme, and not so common scenario.

[shadowplay]

It's not wrong for you be selective about whom you date (based on whatever criteria you choose). What's wrong is that you apparently desire to use attractive women to boost your self esteem, and you aren't being honest with people you date about how exclusive you want to be.

[kashmir]

You think being with an attractive girl will boost your confidence. If you thus "hold out" for a very attractive girl, you'd be using her under those circumstances.

 

That's not what I said. Why would I use a hot girl for an ego boost when I could actually HAVE her? I said that maybe a hookup or a casual relationship with ANY girl, like a moderately attractive one, will give me some confidence overall. The few times I've gotten laid, I felt awesome afterwards, and I had no worries for weeks. That's why I'm inclined to take what I can get for now to feel good, and maybe later something better will come up whether it's with the same girl or a different one. Both men and women do this all the time. It's all fair game in my eyes.

 

Relationships are short lived at my age, anyway. If some girl who I'm moderately attracted to wants me as her boyfriend, chances are that's not going to last more than a month or two, and I'm completely cool with that.

[mr.dream merchant]

Kashmir don't let these miserable women patronize you because you don't want a fatty for a girlfriend.

[Isolde]

Kashmir, when you say "looker," do you mean perfect 10 as in no flaws whatsoever?

 

I like attractive guys, but I don't tend to go for perfect 10's, as I'm not one myself. I see plenty of guys out there that most consider cute, but still have their flaws, and that's what does it for me. For example, I find extremely skinny guys and guys with crooked teeth endearing, as long as they have an otherwise attractive face.

 

If you feel you have it in you to find a modelesque girlfriend, that's fine, but I suspect you could probably be happy with less than that, and more comfortable, too. A happy medium between "moderately attractive" and "unbelievably hotttttttt" does exist.

 

Most of us are pursued more by people we're not attracted to, it's a law of nature.

 

There's nothing wrong with finding a FWB if you want to experiment sexually in the meantime. It's pretty normal in college. Probably better than having to awkwardly explain you're not looking for a LTR.

[kashmir]

No, she doesn't have to be a 10, but I'd prefer a girl with an athletic body. This girl I'm talking about is NOT fat, she's just a larger build than I'd like my girl to be. I don't like super-skinny girls, but I like nice athletic bodies as much as the next guy. This girl is a lot bigger and more curvy than athletic looking.

 

So she doesn't fit one of my preferences...she fits others though. I'm still on the fence about whether it's enough, but I'm going to stick with it in the hopes that soon I'll be attracted to her enough.