Kamille Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I am starting this thread after a brief pm conversation with JamesM, who said, in Lauriebell's Accepting Fault thread: IMO too many people do not really date properly and that is one of the bigger reasons why people don't stay married. JamesM's comment made me curious. I'm currently single, have dated a bit in the last few weeks, and would love to meet that one person I could see myself spending my life with. So, according to you, how does one date properly if the goal is marriage? Or what constitutes not really dating properly?
hotgurl Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I would like to know too. I never really "dated" my husband. We meet at work and were friends for a year. We started hanging out and things went from there. But it wasn't dating in the sense that he asked me out. etc...
lovingalways Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Well, I would think there shouldn't be any jealousy in a relationship. Pure trust between two individuals because that's what marriage is based off of and I found that most couples that stay together for 30-40-50-60 years trust one another immensely. Another part of properly dating is having open lines of communication. So, if something is bothering you, don't bottle it up but say what is bothering you (without yelling at the other person) and then try to reach some middle ground. Also, respect each other no matter what. If you respect each other fully, you will easier understand each other. So, trying to put oneself in the other person's shoes when they're upset or when they are angry or when they're sad. And also sharing and giving. Not being selfish. These are some things I consider important in a relationship before getting married. I'm not married. I have met the person I want to spend the rest of my life with though.
pandagirl Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Hmm. Good question. I think there needs to be an element of letting things progress naturally and having fun! I think we all psych ourselves out a lot, creating expectations and letting our past relationships interfere. And the #1 most important thing in marriage, I think, is compatibility, so getting to know each other really well for who they are and not what we want them to be.
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 As I promised Kamille, I will give my opinions based on my experiences and those of whom I have talked/counseled with. 1. Too early into a physical relationship diminishes the need for communication about each other. Too close too soon gives the feelings of closeness without actually knowing the person. 2. Too much dwelling on today and not enough communication about the future. Many couple get married and have no clue what their spouse thinks about the daily things of life that really are important...ie philosophy on credit, finances, children, and more. 3. IMO cohabitation does not lead to a better marriage. It simply brings two people together before they really know each other. If they had done more communicating about their likes and dislikes before cohabitation, then they would have never lived together in the first place. I would love to see statistics how often cohabitation has led to marriages that are still thriving today. I know of some but only like two. (This will be the point discussed, I am sure. ) 4. Too many couples do not do as many activities as possible while dating. The purpose of this is to discover what each others likes and dislikes are, but it also gives a good idea of who the other person really is under different circumstances. Looking back on my dating days with my wife, (and she has said the same), I see so many things abut her then that really are true about her now. 5. Too many couples think that "love will conquer all." It doesn't. Compatibility is more important than realized. Differences in religion and other areas can be "fun" while dating, but when children come along they became more than a challenge. They become a deal breaker. 6. It is important...rather imperative...that we see our future spouse angry during dating days. And yes, we should have a fight while dating. Why? How does our future spouse handle anger and how do we handle an angry spouse. How do we fight together? And that is all for now. Dating is serious business if one is thinking of the future. My only regrets about our dating days is that I would liked to have gotten to know my wife even better...and yes, we did know each other quite well, I think.
curiousnycgirl Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I'm not married. I have met the person I want to spend the rest of my life with though. This made me laugh so hard - me too - I met the person I want to spend the rest of my life with, unfortunately he doesn't want the same with me. WAAAHH!
movingonandon Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 As I promised Kamille, I will give my opinions based on my experiences and those of whom I have talked/counseled with. 1. Too early into a physical relationship diminishes the need for communication about each other. Too close too soon gives the feelings of closeness without actually knowing the person. 2. Too much dwelling on today and not enough communication about the future. Many couple get married and have no clue what their spouse thinks about the daily things of life that really are important...ie philosophy on credit, finances, children, and more. 3. IMO cohabitation does not lead to a better marriage. It simply brings two people together before they really know each other. If they had done more communicating about their likes and dislikes before cohabitation, then they would have never lived together in the first place. I would love to see statistics how often cohabitation has led to marriages that are still thriving today. I know of some but only like two. (This will be the point discussed, I am sure. ) 4. Too many couples do not do as many activities as possible while dating. The purpose of this is to discover what each others likes and dislikes are, but it also gives a good idea of who the other person really is under different circumstances. Looking back on my dating days with my wife, (and she has said the same), I see so many things abut her then that really are true about her now. 5. Too many couples think that "love will conquer all." It doesn't. Compatibility is more important than realized. Differences in religion and other areas can be "fun" while dating, but when children come along they became more than a challenge. They become a deal breaker. 6. It is important...rather imperative...that we see our future spouse angry during dating days. And yes, we should have a fight while dating. Why? How does our future spouse handle anger and how do we handle an angry spouse. How do we fight together? And that is all for now. Dating is serious business if one is thinking of the future. My only regrets about our dating days is that I would liked to have gotten to know my wife even better...and yes, we did know each other quite well, I think. Good list. But what is "too close too soon" in item 1.? The "typical" time until getting intimate in dating these days (3-5 dates), imho by definition means too soon (not that I'd be willing to wait any longer). For example, I've been dating my current girlfriend for 2.5 months now, sex after month 1 (5 dates). I still feel that I don't know very much about her at all, but I don't see how not having sex within a month would help with this? (having sex doesn't mean not talking ) One problem with the above "ideal" approach is that if you have concerns about somebody, can they really ever be satisfactorily addressed? Or is the mere presence of doubts regarding their character reliable indicator of true future problems? Say your partner is not that great with finances, or with his/her career, but realizes and acknowledges the importance of both - what amount of evidence that he/she is going be getting serious about these things will be sufficient???
lovingalways Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 This made me laugh so hard - me too - I met the person I want to spend the rest of my life with, unfortunately he doesn't want the same with me. WAAAHH! Haha.. Glad I made someone laugh today. Except this guy wants the same with me and has been sort of waiting for me for that past 4 yrs (that's a long time...)
curiousnycgirl Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Haha.. Glad I made someone laugh today. Except this guy wants the same with me and has been sort of waiting for me for that past 4 yrs (that's a long time...) I am truly very happy for you. Stalker button me, and you'll see I've waited 4.5 years for mine. I'm your counter balance!
carhill Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I still feel that I don't know very much about her at all, but I don't see how not having sex within a month would help with this? Emotional intimacy takes time, often a long time, depending on the psychology and history of the individual. The good feelings which come from sex are nearly instantaneous and foster a sense of bonding unsupported by the still-developing emotional and intellectual intimacy. If the timing is wrong, or if one of the parties has psychological issues with developing intimacy, a schism can result, often bounding back and forth between closeness and distance, which I call the "rubber band effect", where the sexual feelings pull the parties in and the schism in emotional/intellectual bonding push them apart. We read these stories all the time on LS. One example is "rebound" dating or a rebound relationship. Personally, I think the mindset of the parties plays and important role. If I'm dating to get married, I'm serious about the developing relationship and my thoughts and actions reflect that. I have a goal. If I'm just dating for fun/sex/relaxation/release, I'm not going to approach it in the same way, with the same thoughts and emotions. My signals will be different. Each style and their subsets have an important place, so it's healthy to realize one's goal and the requisite style required to achieve it. Stereotypically, such style monitoring has been the "job" of women, deciding if a man is serious marriage material or just a fling, but, increasingly, both genders need to be educated and aware, as equality in many areas of gender interaction becomes the norm.
Trialbyfire Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 As I promised Kamille, I will give my opinions based on my experiences and those of whom I have talked/counseled with. 1. Too early into a physical relationship diminishes the need for communication about each other. Too close too soon gives the feelings of closeness without actually knowing the person. 2. Too much dwelling on today and not enough communication about the future. Many couple get married and have no clue what their spouse thinks about the daily things of life that really are important...ie philosophy on credit, finances, children, and more. 3. IMO cohabitation does not lead to a better marriage. It simply brings two people together before they really know each other. If they had done more communicating about their likes and dislikes before cohabitation, then they would have never lived together in the first place. I would love to see statistics how often cohabitation has led to marriages that are still thriving today. I know of some but only like two. (This will be the point discussed, I am sure. ) 4. Too many couples do not do as many activities as possible while dating. The purpose of this is to discover what each others likes and dislikes are, but it also gives a good idea of who the other person really is under different circumstances. Looking back on my dating days with my wife, (and she has said the same), I see so many things abut her then that really are true about her now. 5. Too many couples think that "love will conquer all." It doesn't. Compatibility is more important than realized. Differences in religion and other areas can be "fun" while dating, but when children come along they became more than a challenge. They become a deal breaker. 6. It is important...rather imperative...that we see our future spouse angry during dating days. And yes, we should have a fight while dating. Why? How does our future spouse handle anger and how do we handle an angry spouse. How do we fight together? And that is all for now. Dating is serious business if one is thinking of the future. My only regrets about our dating days is that I would liked to have gotten to know my wife even better...and yes, we did know each other quite well, I think. James, I'm with you all the way on this one, although time clocked is time spent together, rather than length of time together. Some couples will spend once a week together, others will spend far, far more time. It's couple reliant on what works for them.
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 carhill, outstanding post! You answered that question better than I could have. TBF, I agree. My wife and I lived an hour or two apart, so with our jobs we saw each other once or twice a week for our dating days. We also talked on the phone every couple of days (before cell phones and email). We wrote letters a couple of times a week. The only thing with a lot fo time together in a short time is that a couple needs to get beyond the romance stage. This is usually about six months on average. During this time, the tendency is to view one another in the best of light. After this time, reality begins sinking in and we see the other person with more of a real perspective.
JamesM Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Good list. But what is "too close too soon" in item 1.? The "typical" time until getting intimate in dating these days (3-5 dates), imho by definition means too soon (not that I'd be willing to wait any longer). For example, I've been dating my current girlfriend for 2.5 months now, sex after month 1 (5 dates). I still feel that I don't know very much about her at all, but I don't see how not having sex within a month would help with this? (having sex doesn't mean not talking ) Truthfully, I am inclined to believe that sex before marriage can hinder dating, but realistically this is not going to happen. Three to five dates is way too soon. As carhill stated, once we have sex with someone, we see them through the eyes of sex. Sexual intimacy is a huge change in a relationship. We then see the other person usually with a much less objective view than if we had never had sex. Does sex eliminate much talking about other things besides sex? Yes. Suddenly we begin focusing on having sex and how each will act in bed. I disagree that the communication continues as if sex never happened. Sex changes how we then communicate. Going back to my own dating days just after the dinosaurs, we did a lot of talking. In fact, my first KISS was on our fourth date. (yes, you read that right.) Once we had that first kiss, the physical aspect of the relationship progressed rapidly. Although sex still was months later. We both felt that this step was a huge one. Our dates and phone calls consisted of alot of talking about who we were and what we hoped to have in the future. For our first date I planned an evening of activities after we had a nice dinner out. The funny thing is...we never left the restaurant. We spent four and a half hours talking and listening to one another learning of our backgrounds. Actually, my wife did most of the talking. As she said, she never felt so comfortable with a guy on the first date as she did with me. And so the dates began. I think we develop habits on our dates that determine more than we know what our future with each other will be. And when we move that relationship to the bed too soon, we begin to ignore those things that we see as unacceptable for a future mate, because we are so enthralled with the sex. Yet when we get married, we soon see that no matter how good the sex, it is only a small part of our lives together. If we are not the best of friends, then our lives will be miserable...even if we have awesome sex. One problem with the above "ideal" approach is that if you have concerns about somebody, can they really ever be satisfactorily addressed? Yes. But if you never knew about them, then it is a huge shock. Or is the mere presence of doubts regarding their character reliable indicator of true future problems? Yes. I could relate things that I saw in my wife on our first few dates that still haunt her to this day. There are new ones as we have grown, but for the most part, they are simply minor changes of old ones. Say your partner is not that great with finances, or with his/her career, but realizes and acknowledges the importance of both - what amount of evidence that he/she is going be getting serious about these things will be sufficient??? Knowledge is power. If your Gf is lousy with money and you can see this in her handling of her own bills, you can decide if this is a deal breaker. For some it would be. If she has $20k in credit card bills and feels that credit is okay and you don't, then you have a decision to make. But if you ignored these red flags because she is sooo good in bed (and many do), then you would be setting yourself up for perpetual conflict. When you make your decision regarding a future mate, it is important to keep your eyes wide open. Decide if this is the one for you based on how she is today. While we all change, most of us do give signals as to who we will become as older adults. What I think happens too often is that we move to quickly to the bedroom without knowing who we are sleeping with. What is your focus when you date....sex? Then you will get that....at least for the short term. As many find out, this may not last. But when you get married, even if you have sex every night, the realization will be that marriage is much more than those few minutes every day. And since most marriages never have that much sex, then we find that we must love and accept the other person for much much more than his or her physical attributes. One of the people I admire most in the world is my wife for what she has endured, for who she has become, and how she handles what life has given her. While there are things I would change in our marriage, I consider her my best friend and I respect her more than most women I have ever met. How did I develop this feeling toward her? Through learning who she is and she became the person she is. How did I do that? Through listening and talking....and not through sex. As has been said, when a guy meets the woman he wants to marry, his goal should be to get a PhD in the study of his wife.
movingonandon Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Truthfully, I am inclined to believe that sex before marriage can hinder dating, but realistically this is not going to happen. Three to five dates is way too soon. As carhill stated, once we have sex with someone, we see them through the eyes of sex. Sexual intimacy is a huge change in a relationship. We then see the other person usually with a much less objective view than if we had never had sex. Does sex eliminate much talking about other things besides sex? Yes. Suddenly we begin focusing on having sex and how each will act in bed. I disagree that the communication continues as if sex never happened. Sex changes how we then communicate. Going back to my own dating days just after the dinosaurs, we did a lot of talking. In fact, my first KISS was on our fourth date. (yes, you read that right.) Once we had that first kiss, the physical aspect of the relationship progressed rapidly. Although sex still was months later. We both felt that this step was a huge one. Our dates and phone calls consisted of alot of talking about who we were and what we hoped to have in the future. For our first date I planned an evening of activities after we had a nice dinner out. The funny thing is...we never left the restaurant. We spent four and a half hours talking and listening to one another learning of our backgrounds. Actually, my wife did most of the talking. As she said, she never felt so comfortable with a guy on the first date as she did with me. And so the dates began. I think we develop habits on our dates that determine more than we know what our future with each other will be. And when we move that relationship to the bed too soon, we begin to ignore those things that we see as unacceptable for a future mate, because we are so enthralled with the sex. Yet when we get married, we soon see that no matter how good the sex, it is only a small part of our lives together. If we are not the best of friends, then our lives will be miserable...even if we have awesome sex. Yes. But if you never knew about them, then it is a huge shock. Yes. I could relate things that I saw in my wife on our first few dates that still haunt her to this day. There are new ones as we have grown, but for the most part, they are simply minor changes of old ones. Knowledge is power. If your Gf is lousy with money and you can see this in her handling of her own bills, you can decide if this is a deal breaker. For some it would be. If she has $20k in credit card bills and feels that credit is okay and you don't, then you have a decision to make. But if you ignored these red flags because she is sooo good in bed (and many do), then you would be setting yourself up for perpetual conflict. When you make your decision regarding a future mate, it is important to keep your eyes wide open. Decide if this is the one for you based on how she is today. While we all change, most of us do give signals as to who we will become as older adults. What I think happens too often is that we move to quickly to the bedroom without knowing who we are sleeping with. What is your focus when you date....sex? Then you will get that....at least for the short term. As many find out, this may not last. But when you get married, even if you have sex every night, the realization will be that marriage is much more than those few minutes every day. And since most marriages never have that much sex, then we find that we must love and accept the other person for much much more than his or her physical attributes. One of the people I admire most in the world is my wife for what she has endured, for who she has become, and how she handles what life has given her. While there are things I would change in our marriage, I consider her my best friend and I respect her more than most women I have ever met. How did I develop this feeling toward her? Through learning who she is and she became the person she is. How did I do that? Through listening and talking....and not through sex. As has been said, when a guy meets the woman he wants to marry, his goal should be to get a PhD in the study of his wife. Wow, all good points... One thing that has been stopping me from being more inquisitive is fear of becoming overbearing and judgmental (something that I've done in past relationships when what i thought was important for me in my partner did not meet my expectations, which is a bad way to handle it, obviously). I've known this new girl for 2 months... What right do I have to basically grill her/interview her - which would be the case, even if such inquiries are disguised as conversation? For example, i'm dying to ask her how does she feel about never having lived independently on her own, how does she imagine the rest of her life with a profession that's something she's ok with, but is not passionate about etc... It's pretty hard to address these things without sounding a tad judgemental. Moreover, it is easy for others to tell you what they believe you want to hear. As for the sex part, well, I don't think I put too much importance on it, but I'd still like to enjoy this aspect of the companionship too. Otherwise dating would involve waaay too much pressure - everybody needs a baseline companionship, sometimes things will progress beyond that, sometimes they won't. I don't feel that it is wise to approach every dating interaction as a major project/prelude to marriage. Moreover, only through dating different people one can learn what is important to them. For example, until recently, a girl who takes chick flicks a little too seriously would be a dealbreaker for me. Now I realise that such quirks are pretty irrelevant in a relationship, and even somewhat amusing. That said, it is true that having sex makes it easier to ignore important topics of conversation, but, even if nothing comes out of it, you can still enjoy it.
birdie Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Wow, all good points... One thing that has been stopping me from being more inquisitive is fear of becoming overbearing and judgmental (something that I've done in past relationships when what i thought was important for me in my partner did not meet my expectations, which is a bad way to handle it, obviously). I've known this new girl for 2 months... What right do I have to basically grill her/interview her - which would be the case, even if such inquiries are disguised as conversation? For example, i'm dying to ask her how does she feel about never having lived independently on her own, how does she imagine the rest of her life with a profession that's something she's ok with, but is not passionate about etc... It's pretty hard to address these things without sounding a tad judgemental. Moreover, it is easy for others to tell you what they believe you want to hear. As for the sex part, well, I don't think I put too much importance on it, but I'd still like to enjoy this aspect of the companionship too. Otherwise dating would involve waaay too much pressure - everybody needs a baseline companionship, sometimes things will progress beyond that, sometimes they won't. I don't feel that it is wise to approach every dating interaction as a major project/prelude to marriage. Moreover, only through dating different people one can learn what is important to them. For example, until recently, a girl who takes chick flicks a little too seriously would be a dealbreaker for me. Now I realise that such quirks are pretty irrelevant in a relationship, and even somewhat amusing. That said, it is true that having sex makes it easier to ignore important topics of conversation, but, even if nothing comes out of it, you can still enjoy it. very good points and this is why I disagree with JamesM fundamentally. some of the points this post above refer to is experience. you have to be a certain age and reach certain experience before you know what you want from life and from your partner. I don't think the reason why many marriages fail is because people get distracted by sex initially, I think it is because people haven't grown at that stage enough to know what they need exactly from another partner. in my experience very few people in their 20s will have a good list about what their values are, what they can compromise on, what they believe in, how their children should be brought up, etc. most people grow tremendously in their 20s and don't become fully mature until they are in their early 30s. this would be the ideal time for the to commit to something that is supposed to last their lifetime
Trialbyfire Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 in my experience very few people in their 20s will have a good list about what their values are, what they can compromise on, what they believe in, how their children should be brought up, etc. most people grow tremendously in their 20s and don't become fully mature until they are in their early 30s. this would be the ideal time for the to commit to something that is supposed to last their lifetime Then for the ones who don't know who they are, it would make sense to wait until they're in their thirties, before getting too serious about anyone. If that's the case, then each relationship isn't intended for an LTR or marriage, as defined by the opening post. It's more of a passing of time between individuals, who enjoy each others' company.
Star Gazer Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 in my experience very few people in their 20s will have a good list about what their values are, what they can compromise on, what they believe in, how their children should be brought up, etc. most people grow tremendously in their 20s and don't become fully mature until they are in their early 30s. this would be the ideal time for the to commit to something that is supposed to last their lifetime I couldn't agree more. I just turned 30 and am just starting to feel mature enough to even know what I want/need/etc.
birdie Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Then for the ones who don't know who they are, it would make sense to wait until they're in their thirties, before getting too serious about anyone. If that's the case, then each relationship isn't intended for an LTR or marriage, as defined by the opening post. It's more of a passing of time between individuals, who enjoy each others' company. no because when you are in your 20s you don't know that you 'don't know'. it's only when you get to your 30s when you realise how much you have grown
Enema Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 James - Do you think your religious education / beliefs have influenced your opinions on this? (Not a trick question)
movingonandon Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 Emotional intimacy takes time, often a long time, depending on the psychology and history of the individual. The good feelings which come from sex are nearly instantaneous and foster a sense of bonding unsupported by the still-developing emotional and intellectual intimacy. If the timing is wrong, or if one of the parties has psychological issues with developing intimacy, a schism can result, often bounding back and forth between closeness and distance, which I call the "rubber band effect", where the sexual feelings pull the parties in and the schism in emotional/intellectual bonding push them apart. We read these stories all the time on LS. One example is "rebound" dating or a rebound relationship. Personally, I think the mindset of the parties plays and important role. If I'm dating to get married, I'm serious about the developing relationship and my thoughts and actions reflect that. I have a goal. If I'm just dating for fun/sex/relaxation/release, I'm not going to approach it in the same way, with the same thoughts and emotions. My signals will be different. Each style and their subsets have an important place, so it's healthy to realize one's goal and the requisite style required to achieve it. Stereotypically, such style monitoring has been the "job" of women, deciding if a man is serious marriage material or just a fling, but, increasingly, both genders need to be educated and aware, as equality in many areas of gender interaction becomes the norm. Good answer. Interesting, "rubber band", eh? could be true. I don't necessarily disagree with any of the above, but insist that I, and believe most people, are self-aware enough to distinguish the feel-good feelings coming from sex from actual bonding. I think that one key scenario is missing though - your response assumes that "I"/"you" are always clear about your particular intentions towards a relationship. I would argue that the most common scenario is being uncertain (initially) about the person and the relationship, and based on evidence revealed over time, make up your mind - i.e. it can grow on you (or fade) as you get new information. So, I'm not on a mission to get married, but I would not rule it out if I get pleasantly surprised by what happens in the relationship. [All that said, much of what you said unfortunately applies in my situation: it's a "rebound" (though I disagree that this automatically spells doom), I'm dating with no particular purpose in mind, I don't think that some key comparabilities are present, etc.; so I've made it clear (to her) that I'm not really after something very serious right now, but you never know.]
Trialbyfire Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 no because when you are in your 20s you don't know that you 'don't know'. it's only when you get to your 30s when you realise how much you have grown My list hasn't changed much from my twenties to thirties. Sure, I'm more self-aware and have grown more externally aware. But my fundamentals haven't changed since I was a teenager. I've always known what I wanted. Overall, I do strongly agree that people need to take the time to get to know each other. If you're the bonding type through sex, take your time with that. If you're the compartmentalizing type, where sex is just a sport, then do whatever suits you. As long as people aren't fooling themselves to believe they can compartmentalize, when they can't, or fool themselves to believe they're deeper than they are, in that they're looking for a serious relationship, when it's only sex that's their major driver, it's all good!
birdie Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 My list hasn't changed much from my twenties to thirties. Sure, I'm more self-aware and have grown more externally aware. But my fundamentals haven't changed since I was a teenager. I've always known what I wanted. Overall, I do strongly agree that people need to take the time to get to know each other. If you're the bonding type through sex, take your time with that. If you're the compartmentalizing type, where sex is just a sport, then do whatever suits you. As long as people aren't fooling themselves to believe they can compartmentalize, when they can't, or fool themselves to believe they're deeper than they are, in that they're looking for a serious relationship, when it's only sex that's their major driver, it's all good! guess you are very lucky then.
Trialbyfire Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 guess you are very lucky then.I can't believe that I'm that much different than other people. No better or worse. Did you not know what you wanted when you were in your twenties, not necessarily in concrete terms like now but back then, didn't you have fundamental requirements like: a family manfiscally responsiblewant to retire by age 55not abusivenot a slob
D-Jam Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 As far as I'm concerned, dating is what two people do to get to know one another and see if they will be compatible for a very long term commitment. Even if they've been together a year, it's not a determination that they would be marriage material for one another. It's time together in enjoyment and emotion, but also keeping their eyes out to see if their lives, lifestyles, values, and such are compatible in a way that they would meld as a couple for life. The only "not dating properly" thing I see happening is that too many times one side is giving in or compromising way too much on what really seems to be big red flags...all because they want to "make it work" so badly they'll take punishment for it. That and too many couples move too quickly to the aisle. I still will never agree with anyone who tells me 9-12 months is enough time as "dating" before getting engaged. I'd take 2-3 years. The bigger issues that destroy marriage isn't how the two dated before marriage, but how they handle things when they are married. I see couples who fight like crazy because neither side wants to compromise in anything and more wants it to be a battle of wills for control. So maybe he's a slob and she's a neat freak...but she constantly yells at him for not being as neat freak as her, and yet he doesn't want to change a bit. Better solution is she lightens up and he makes some effort to keep things cleaner. Another problem is that one or both sides can't let go of their single life. So they get married, honeymoon is over, and suddenly they're at work checking out the hot new secretary, or seeing the handsome single exec. Now they start wondering if they settled in life and possibly should have stayed single to nail said "hot people". When you get married...this the point you 100% let go of that aspect of your life. That when you want sex, it'll be with your spouse. When you want to date, it's with your spouse. If you can't let go of the bachelor/bachelorette life, then you have no business getting married...or even committing to a RL for that matter. Balance is another big one. Have your life togehter, but also have your own life, and she has her own life. I know if I ever got married we would do things together, but maybe some nights I'll go to my study and work on a new mix, or a track, or some web work. Maybe I'll go on my own to a drum circle, or play a video game. I'll do things I personally enjoy, but BALANCE that with things we do as a couple. I'll go out with my friends sometimes and she'll go out with hers sometimes. When you make your life 100% about the RL, then things will get boring. Sometimes you need to miss your spouse. Text them while you're away saying you're thinking of him/her. Stuff like that. Finally, the biggest thing I've seen destroy marriages is when one or both sides suddenly thinks it's ok now to end the "dating/impressing logic". When suddenly she decides it's ok to chop her hair short and dress in sweats all day. When he suddenly decides he doesn't have to bring her flowers or take her out on dates anymore. When they both decide that they don't have to hit the gym anymore to stay trim and looking great. I know you can't fight aging, baldness, and any body changes from having kids, but in my book there is no excuse to gain loads of weight and no excuse to not ever doll yourself up for your spouse or even for your own sense of self confidence. I know I want to remain who I am til I die. So if I marry my GF, I might get gray hair and wrinkles, but I won't gain weight, I won't stop dressing nice for her, and I definitely won't stop treating her like she's my GF. Dating is one thing that should never stop just because you both say "I do". Even if kids are born and such, couples should always try to make time for them. Even if it's just a romantic walk in the afternoon. Find a means for a sitter, hook up with friends who have kids and trade off babysitting nights, whatever. Go out on dates. Take her out to dinner. Take him to a show. If you can get away for a day or two, head up to a bed and breakfast and just be a couple in love. Bring her flowers out of the blue because you love her. Seduce him some night when he's not expecting it. Don't fall into a habit of coming home and falling asleep on the couch. Don't get irked because he/she wants to do something that doesn't involve you. Make time for one another, but also make time for your individual selves. If you're both too tired for sex, then be intimate. Light some candles, give massages, cuddle together. Those moments don't always have to play out like a porn movie. Flirt with one another. Send seductive texts over the day. Call to say you miss that person. Don't ever take the love for granted. To me it's not totally about how you do things when you're dating, but how you handle it all.
birdie Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 I can't believe that I'm that much different than other people. No better or worse. Did you not know what you wanted when you were in your twenties, not necessarily in concrete terms like now but back then, didn't you have fundamental requirements like: a family manfiscally responsiblewant to retire by age 55not abusivenot a slob using your list then: I only realised the last few years that I didn't want children. when I was in my 20s I had thought that the desire would come with time (because it was what everyone told me) but over the years I realised that it's ok not to want any and that there are a lot of women like me. therefore if I had married a family man that wanted 3 kids, we would be divorced by now.
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