Star Gazer Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I think she needs to stand up to him even more then she does and stop letting him wipe his feet on her when it suits him! They are young and immature, of course they will fire at each other and not have sensible, sit down discussions or arrange a Friday night at 7pm talk each week to air any differences, they are young for goodness sake! LB reacted as she did because he hit on her anchilles heel and he knew what he was doing so it makes it very spiteful, he hurt her, she hurt him back, it is human nature! My advice remains the same, indepence and forgetting marriage for now! So in other words simply because they're both late-20's it's okay for them to curse at one another, simply because it's "human nature"? It sure as hell isn't human nature for me to curse like that at loved ones, under any circumstances.
BareGoddess Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 It is all fair and fine saying how he should have approached this issue with "darling we need to talk" come on!!! When we get annoyed over something we snap at times, we are only human not the bleeding Brady Bunch!!!! Got to disagree with this. Sure we "snap" when we get annoyed but there are different ways to snap, you know? When my H and I snap at each other, for example, "screw you" doesn't slip out, nor does "eff you." At worst I've said "stop being a pain in the ass!" or "get off my back for now, will you?" or "back off"...same on his end. And no, it's not "human nature" to curse at your SO. They're immature and young but if they're really looking at a future together they better learn how to fight "fair" and pronto. LB, I'm disappointed to hear you say that it didn't help to read about an alternate way of handling things. Why do you think that it didn't help?
Citizen Erased Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 So in other words simply because they're both late-20's it's okay for them to curse at one another, simply because it's "human nature"? It sure as hell isn't human nature for me to curse like that at loved ones, under any circumstances. Exactly. I call them names behind their backs, never to their faces. They are loved ones after all. Sometimes I feel like telling my bf to go screw a donkey and to f-off but I don't. It may feel good to get it off my chest but it's not an effective way of communicating the problem. He'd just go on the defensive and we'd get nowhere.
BareGoddess Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Exactly CE. To my mind calling it human nature is just a way to not take responsibility or control over our emotions and reactions. You have to look at what you want the result of the argument to be. It's like Dr. Phil (sorry) says "Do you want to be right or do you want to be happy?"
Star Gazer Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Ladies, I suspect she's permanently gone from this thread now that she's being shown a mirror.
Touche Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Well I was sensing impatience and frustration from the tone of LB's last few posts. Look, I hate to say this but there's a pattern here. She'll come back and say they made up, everything's hunky dory. They had a wonderful talk, b/f is so understanding and sorry for what he said. LB apologized and they're going to try to do better. But that's a temporary fix, LB. You guys don't communicate the way people in good relationships communicate. Why am I picturing you stomping your feet again (as you have on here before)? I hope some of this was of value to you. I mean I didn't see anyone being overly harsh with you or anything. I don't know why you said that it didn't help to show you how the fight went/didn't go. This thread is entitled "accepting faults." I mean if you don't like it when we point out YOUR part in it, your not accepting that part of this IS your fault. You did contribute. If you really are making no effort (and I was never that clear on that) to pick up after yourself and try to keep the apt. tidy, then you're at fault too. And you know that I related with you there since I'm not by nature a neat freak. But I've confined my mess to two areas only as I've said. I just don't think it's fair for me to live like I would if I lived alone. I don't. And I think that's what you were looking for us to say. That he should just accept you completely, with your messes and all. But when you live with someone it doesn't work that way..you each have to give a little. I've already said that I don't think this is all you though. He's certainly at fault for not handling things well at all. He's PA and it sounds like he treats you like a child. You're just not a match. But I'd at least try to learn something from this. You'll never have a good, solid, relationship with anyone if you "lose" it to the point that you're cursing at the man you're supposed to love. So, in keeping with the title of your thread, accept YOUR fault in this. You can't change him but you can change your reactions to him you know. That's key and can make all the difference.
Star Gazer Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Well I was sensing impatience and frustration from the tone of LB's last few posts. Look, I hate to say this but there's a pattern here. She'll come back and say they made up, everything's hunky dory. They had a wonderful talk, b/f is so understanding and sorry for what he said. LB apologized and they're going to try to do better. But that's a temporary fix, LB. You guys don't communicate the way people in good relationships communicate. Why am I picturing you stomping your feet again (as you have on here before)? I hope some of this was of value to you. I mean I didn't see anyone being overly harsh with you or anything. I don't know why you said that it didn't help to show you how the fight went/didn't go. This thread is entitled "accepting faults." I mean if you don't like it when we point out YOUR part in it, your not accepting that part of this IS your fault. You did contribute. * * * * You're just not a match. But I'd at least try to learn something from this. You'll never have a good, solid, relationship with anyone if you "lose" it to the point that you're cursing at the man you're supposed to love. So, in keeping with the title of your thread, accept YOUR fault in this. You can't change him but you can change your reactions to him you know. That's key and can make all the difference. Great post. I tried to bold all the parts I STRONGLY agreed with... I wound up bolding almost the entire thing. Re-read that, LB.
Touche Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Thanks, SG! LB, I do hope you come back and post. You can make something good come from all of this and grow. Break the pattern.
allina Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 When I posted earlier I didn't notice the parts where LB said he called her a bitch and said she'd be a terrible wife That's not ok, and it's a troubling sign imo. It's what my roomie and I used to call the "FU Theory" in relationships. Basically once you cross a certain line with your SO, and the F yous start flying, even out of anger, there's no going back. Irreversible damage has been done. I think him calling you a bitch and saying you'd be a terrible wife (when he knows being his wife is a huge, obsessive desire) is bordering that sort of F you. I can have a BAD temper, and I'm also really anal about my house. I guess you could say I have both negatives in me, your bf's and yours. But all it takes is a little self control and awareness and I don't cross that line. I have never cursed at my SO or said anything super hurtful, he hasn't either. Of course we've argued and had rougher times, but when you commit to loving a person and building a happy and solid future you just can't hurt, insult and curse at each other, nor should you want to.
oceangrl Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Do you really think you could talk rationally to a guy who said something like that to you? People create what they share. Since your BF is sharing that rudeness with you, he creates a rude response from you. I mean who wouldn't be defensive by a comment like that? Everyone has a rude side.....its just that some people that we encounter bring it out of us more than others. I think your BF brings out that side of you. For example, the last guy I dated had a way of teasing me that made me defensive. He'd make little comments on the way i dressed or the way I talked that made me defensive. I think the only reason I was with him is because I wanted to prove to him that the things he pointed out weren't true. So I understand, LB, why you responded like that.
Lishy Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I also understand why LB reacted in the way she did, I dont make it right but I understand it completely! The thing is that to have a constructive row with a SO is hard when you are the only one being constructive. Tell your partner FU is out of order BUT telling your partner (who you know wants desperately to marry you) that they would be an awful wife is just as deplorable. It is fine to tell LB how to delegate a constructive arguement with her BF BUT he is not taking the same lessons so in theory it does not help her. I agree that they are not a match and I also think that LB is close to seeing this. Sometimes we have to fight fire with fire
Touche Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 No. Two wrongs don't make a right. One can effect the outcome of an argument to an extent by not escalating it. By controlling one's reaction. I don't agree that it wasn't helping her to advise her to moderate her reactions. If she took the advise it would. But yeah, if she doesn't take the advise, obviously it's not going to help- so there I might agree.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 14, 2009 Author Posted January 14, 2009 I'm completely miserable now and my BF is wondering why I'm crying and why I didn't spend any time with him last night. He can be a jerk sometimes but he's a good guy. Maybe he does have some faults but I still love him. I'm going to live there for 4 months though, and I can't stay there all miserable. So I want to be happy in order to not drive us both nuts. I'm so upset, I just feel like crying all the time and we aren't even broken up!
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 14, 2009 Author Posted January 14, 2009 Oh to add: I didn't mean your responses didn't MEAN anything to me. It's hard to describe exactly how a fight happened, what tone of voice, body movement, actions. But it's hard to virtually analyze a fight. Oh, I didn't say "f you" to his face. When he made the comment to me I said "f this" and walked out of the room. I didn't scream in his face or anything. It's still swearing, and I know I was wrong, but I didn't shout and him and swear like a banchy. (sp?)
Lishy Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 LB, you do not need to justify yourself, I am sure that every person telling you how to have a good productive row has lost their temper at some point and said the wrong thing! For what he said to you, he deserved it anyway! I think you feel so upset right now because you are starting to realise that things are not how you have construed them in your mind, that is good really as you need to be realistic. Re-read the reply posts here LB, there is solid advice amongst it, even if it is a tough pill to swallow.
JamesM Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 With all due respect to all of us here on LS, Laurie, I think you should talk to him about your concerns and future....and not us. The thing is as you know is that we make judgments based on what you post. And as I know from my own experiences, when I look back I see how maybe my original posts were not as accurate as I wanted. If the posts are as everything is in your life, then follow advice. If they are not, then don't. BUT...he is your bf. We are strangers. Either way, HE deserves the respect of knowing what is going on in your head. Right now if I were him, I would feel as if you had a "band of girlfriends" who were against him. He not only has to convince you that he loves you...he has to convince us. This is not fair. Just my two cents.
Kamille Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I'm completely miserable now and my BF is wondering why I'm crying and why I didn't spend any time with him last night. He can be a jerk sometimes but he's a good guy. Maybe he does have some faults but I still love him. I'm going to live there for 4 months though, and I can't stay there all miserable. So I want to be happy in order to not drive us both nuts. I'm so upset, I just feel like crying all the time and we aren't even broken up! OMG! How did things get here!? I wish I had time to reread the whole thread because it seemed to me that you were in a somewhat good headspace two days ago: you were willing to learn to cook and you were also willing to discuss cleaning with him in productive ways. The thing about accepting faults is that you'll both need to learn to accept the other as you are: he nitpicks. You took it personally because you are self-admittedly obsessed for a perticular outcome for your relationship. If that pressure hadn't been there, I'm guessing you would have reacted very differently LB: you would have simply apologized for not putting the shirts away when you knew it was that important to him and then turned the ironing fiasco into a joke and then you would have looked for alternative cleaning solutions that suit you both (by the way, my ex, who was also OCD, would get his clothes professionnally pressed since it was that important to him). Instead, you took it personally and felt like he was trying to change you because you want to be his wife at all cost. If the marriage pressure wasn't there, these fights wouldn't escalate so much, and you wouldn't feel like you have to live up to his expectations of a good wife. The playing field would be levelled. At the same time, I understand him. He loves you. He does love you. There is no doubt about that. You don't doubt it. But everytime he approaches you with 'everyday' stuff (such as spending money, cleaning, social events), it becomes an emotional drama about his intentions to marry you. I know this is harsh but: how could he possibly want to propose when you get this emotional over something as minor as cleaning? Your boyfriend and you need to learn to trust each other LB. As it is, you don't trust him - and it doesn't sound like he beleives you have his (your relationship's) well-being at heart either. You're stuck in a vicious circle here LB, because as long as you feel fragile because he won't propose, he won't propose because you're fragile. LB, my grandma always told me that men marry women who have a head on their shoulders. Admit it, you guys aren't ready for marriage. You're still figuring out the small stuff. It isn't always going to be smooth. You are both going to make mistakes - but I don't think you need to move out or plan ahead right now. Right now I think you need to change how you approach issues in your relationship, and stop feeling like his demands are directly linked to his marriage intentions. Approach every issue for itself. You both need to learn to seperate single issues from the big picture: his nitpicking wasn't about marriage; it was about cleaning. Also, promise yourself that you will do what is best for you. Have faith in yourself and in your own ability to make your own decisions LB. To be honest, I think this is your hardest struggle throughout, and also why your threads get so inflammed: you don't believe you are your own best friend. Please work on this LB. I would even go seek counselling for that - and I find that yoga has helped me have faith in my own capacities and resilience. Time out. Don't overdramatize this because of us. You had worked out a compromise with your bf. Breathe in breathe out. It'll be ok. Just step away from the turmoil.
Kamille Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 With all due respect to all of us here on LS, Laurie, I think you should talk to him about your concerns and future....and not us. The thing is as you know is that we make judgments based on what you post. And as I know from my own experiences, when I look back I see how maybe my original posts were not as accurate as I wanted. If the posts are as everything is in your life, then follow advice. If they are not, then don't. BUT...he is your bf. We are strangers. Either way, HE deserves the respect of knowing what is going on in your head. Right now if I were him, I would feel as if you had a "band of girlfriends" who were against him. He not only has to convince you that he loves you...he has to convince us. This is not fair. Just my two cents. Very true. LB, does your bf know that you suscribe to a relationship advice board? I feel like we come into play in a lot of ways in your relationship. We definitely do confuse you. Without telling him which one it is, you could perhaps tell him about LS, and the debates that spring in your mind because of your participation here.
Jo78 Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I have thought of some coping mechanisms to push marriage from my mind. Can you all help me? Please!! I'm completely miserable now and my BF is wondering why I'm crying and why I didn't spend any time with him last night. He can be a jerk sometimes but he's a good guy. Maybe he does have some faults but I still love him. I'm going to live there for 4 months though, and I can't stay there all miserable. So I want to be happy in order to not drive us both nuts. I'm so upset, I just feel like crying all the time and we aren't even broken up! Laurie, I think the best way to get marriage off your mind and your anxiety down, is to not post about it for a while. There is a topic about those things at least every other month, and the responses often seem to only fuel your anxiety. See, now you are all unhappy and crying. And this was probably triggered by these new threads, which your BF wasn't in on. So now you are unhappy and he is confused. I really like you, so I ask you, for your own sanity's sake, don't talk to strangers about your relationship worries anymore. In some cases, this might bring new insight and help. But I think we are way beyond this point now. Have a heart to heart with your BF instead. You know him and your relationship best. HE is the one involved in and affected by all those bad feelings. I really hope you will feel much better soon. I don't like to see you that unhappy!
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 14, 2009 Author Posted January 14, 2009 One of my problems is that I do rely on his too much. He knows I miss my best friend so much (she is in California, her husband is in the Air Force). He actually suggested that I take a course at our local community college. They have all sorts of non-credit courses that run in like 10 session increments. They aren't real expensive either, like $50 bucks. I found a few courses that look like fun, maybe I'll make some new friends there! He knows something is wrong and he said he hates to see me unhappy. I think it's true that he won't propose BECAUSE I'm so unhappy and fragile. He sent me a text message saying he loves me and he doesn't want me to be sad. I'm going to look into the class though.
Jo78 Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Is there a possibility that you could go visit you best friend in CA? That could really help you to relax and get your worries off your mind. I always find that a vacation helps me get through times when I am hurt and sad. Plus, you would get to spend some time with the person you miss so much. Win - win!
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 14, 2009 Author Posted January 14, 2009 Is there a possibility that you could go visit you best friend in CA? That could really help you to relax and get your worries off your mind. I always find that a vacation helps me get through times when I am hurt and sad. Plus, you would get to spend some time with the person you miss so much. Win - win! Tickets to CA are very expensive. She was here over Christmas for a month and it was SO GREAT! But then she left and now I miss her and I'm crushed. She will be back in late June while her husband is deployed in Afganistan! I can't wait, I'll have like 3 months with her! It was so sad we were trying so much when she left. It was hard when she got married and then left, I felt like I was losing a part of her, but I totally didn't we stayed in touch and are still best friends.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 14, 2009 Author Posted January 14, 2009 Very true. LB, does your bf know that you suscribe to a relationship advice board? I feel like we come into play in a lot of ways in your relationship. We definitely do confuse you. Without telling him which one it is, you could perhaps tell him about LS, and the debates that spring in your mind because of your participation here. I think you hit it on the nose when you said that I am so sensitive about marriage and proposals that HE becomes sensitive about me bc I'm so obsessed. That's why I think just concentrated on our RELATIONSHIP and not getting engaged and married can help us/me. He's real sweet, he sent me some text messages saying that he loves me and we will work this out. As far as LS goes, he knows I go on it. When I get upset and start crying or flipping out he knows I have gone on and asks me why I do if it upsets me. I don't think he likes that I go on here. You all made such great points, you really did. I appreciate it a lot. I want to spend some time getting "me" back and not this obsessed sensitive girl that I've turned into.
Lishy Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Wow LB, that last post was great! That is exactly what you need to do babe, work on YOU and make YOUR life amazing. When he sees this he will so want to be a part of it It is sad that this thread has made you cry BUT hopefully you have opened your eyes and I am so pleased that you have seen that your lil obsession with marriage may infact be hindering things for you Cheer up darling, things will turn out just the way they should!!
Kamille Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Cheer up darling, things will turn out just the way they should!! Things often have to get worse before they get better. LB, you of all people must know how unsettling changing your thoughts patterns can be. I have faith that you can stop obsessing about marriage, and I think part of the crisis you are going through right now is caused by how unsettling effecting real change can be. After all, you want to change the very way you perceive problems in your relationship. Scary but worth it. And remember to have faith in yourself always LB. You're smart and sensitive - you just need to find that voice inside yourself that knows that everything is going to work out for the best, because you are responsible for yourself and you better than anyone can ensure your own happiness.
Recommended Posts