Accepting faults

[Trialbyfire]

Lb, everyone is on your side, whether you believe it or not. I don't see one single poster in this thread that's not rooting for YOU. This doesn't mean they necessarily believe that this relationship is the cat's meow and your destiny. It might be or might not be but right now, marriage isn't a good idea. There's too much personal growth for both of you, that needs to happen before taking that serious step towards hopefully, a lifelong commitment.

 

I think it's a wonderful idea that you focus on getting YOU back. Get her back, grounded and coming into her own. Pull all that negative focus towards marriage and pull it into yourself and create a positive focus on self-improvement. This doesn't mean you're a bad, terrible, or horrible person. You're not. There's a real sweetness about you that appeals to most people which is why you get so much input and help on your threads. Everyone wants you to do well...but do well for YOU!

[Lauriebell82]

Thanks for all your help. I think I do need to just forget about this issue for awhile. Posting about it, asking everyone (friends, family, ect.) is just making things worse. I'm not going to forget about it and take it off the table if I'm jibber jabbering about it all the time. I got so much helpful information, and I really appreciate it. I spent my lunch hour looking up courses on the internet that the community college offers. They are like 10 week courses for liek $50 bucks. I like this self defense course, it is especially for women so maybe I'll make some friends there. There is a ballroom dance class to learn dances like swing, mambo, cha-cha ect. My boyfriend and I are looking into taking that together, it sounds like a fun thing to do.

 

So I'm trying to get my old self back. My past 2 relationships before my BF were like hell towards the end and the hurt really did a number on me. They both said they loved me too and then hurt me more than I ever thought. So they betrayed me, and I guess I worry that he will be betray me as well. I really want to try to make it work, it appears that we do have some work to do regarding communication and all, but I'm willing to do it. I really don't want to throw in the towel. So thanks for making me aware hows nuts I'm acting right now.

[Star Gazer]

Oh, I didn't say "f you" to his face. When he made the comment to me I said "f this" and walked out of the room.

 

You've admitted in both threads that you told him this AND told him go screw himself.

 

There's a cycle here, as Touche pointed out. You sugarcoat things, then the truth comes out, and then you backpeddle.

 

I know this is harsh but: how could he possibly want to propose when you get this emotional over something as minor as cleaning?

 

I really agree with this, LB. Perhaps PMC really isn't the way to go. Perhaps you need some counseling/therapy of your own. I know, I know. You are a counselor, so you think you have insight to your own issues and don't need it. But you do. Perhaps speaking with someone who's trained and has years and years and years of experience counseling people in your position with your relationship background would be a better idea than posting here? After all, most of us only speak from our own experiences, which obviously clouds things.

 

You both need to learn to seperate single issues from the big picture: his nitpicking wasn't about marriage; it was about cleaning.

 

I have to disagree with you on this, K. He linked her cleaning/cooking to being a poor wife. He IS thinking about how LB would be as a wife, not only with regards to "wife skills" but the way she handles criticism, tough times, etc. She breaks down every time, like you said. I'd love to see LB gain some strength in the latter regard.

 

Also, promise yourself that you will do what is best for you. Have faith in yourself and in your own ability to make your own decisions LB. To be honest, I think this is your hardest struggle throughout, and also why your threads get so inflammed: you don't believe you are your own best friend.

 

Great point. LB, I think this ties in heavily with learning how to be independent, and not rely on your BF for your every bit of happiness. You were happy before your BF, right? Well, you can be happy with him, and you WILL be happy without him IF it comes to that. You just have to believe in yourself more.

 

Lb, everyone is on your side, whether you believe it or not. I don't see one single poster in this thread that's not rooting for YOU. This doesn't mean they necessarily believe that this relationship is the cat's meow and your destiny.

 

There's a real sweetness about you that appeals to most people which is why you get so much input and help on your threads. Everyone wants you to do well...but do well for YOU!

 

LB, I really hope you see how true this is. None of us want to see you upset, or hear that you've been crying. But your emotion tells you something: you BOTH have a lot of work to do - individually AND as a couple - before you'll be anywhere near ready to make a lifelong commitment to one another.

[Star Gazer]

Thanks for all your help. I think I do need to just forget about this issue for awhile. Posting about it, asking everyone (friends, family, ect.) is just making things worse. I'm not going to forget about it and take it off the table if I'm jibber jabbering about it all the time. I got so much helpful information, and I really appreciate it. I spent my lunch hour looking up courses on the internet that the community college offers. They are like 10 week courses for liek $50 bucks. I like this self defense course, it is especially for women so maybe I'll make some friends there. There is a ballroom dance class to learn dances like swing, mambo, cha-cha ect. My boyfriend and I are looking into taking that together, it sounds like a fun thing to do.

 

Please, LB - don't take a class WITH your BF. That will only feed your dependency more!!!

 

But as for the community college classes - a great idea! Also, look to see if there's a Junior League or the like in your area. That's another great way to meet like-minded, successful women and make great friendships.

 

So they betrayed me, and I guess I worry that he will be betray me as well.

 

Do you really? Something tells me if your relationship with him doesn't work out, it will have absolutely nothing to do with "betrayal." Your BF just doesn't strike me as the cheating type. And if it doesn't work out, that's what will make it even more difficult - because it won't be the result of someone doing something terribly wrong, but just incompatibility. Those are the hardest relationships to let go of, I know.

 

But you're right not to throw in the towel. It will require some work. With the right tools, you'll come out on top - no matter what happens.

[Treasa]

Lb, everyone is on your side, whether you believe it or not. I don't see one single poster in this thread that's not rooting for YOU. This doesn't mean they necessarily believe that this relationship is the cat's meow and your destiny. It might be or might not be but right now, marriage isn't a good idea. There's too much personal growth for both of you, that needs to happen before taking that serious step towards hopefully, a lifelong commitment.

 

I think it's a wonderful idea that you focus on getting YOU back. Get her back, grounded and coming into her own. Pull all that negative focus towards marriage and pull it into yourself and create a positive focus on self-improvement. This doesn't mean you're a bad, terrible, or horrible person. You're not. There's a real sweetness about you that appeals to most people which is why you get so much input and help on your threads. Everyone wants you to do well...but do well for YOU!

 

I TOTALLY agree with this.

[Lauriebell82]

Please, LB - don't take a class WITH your BF. That will only feed your dependency more!!!

 

But as for the community college classes - a great idea! Also, look to see if there's a Junior League or the like in your area. That's another great way to meet like-minded, successful women and make great friendships.

 

I'm very excited for the classes. The dance class may not happen, but it looked like fun. Plus, we do enjoy doing things together. Yes, I want to gain some independence and do things on my own, but I do still want to spend time with him. I was going to take a class on my own anyway, so if we aren't able to take the class (bc of work schedules) than it's not a big deal. I always wanted to learn the mambo though, becuase I LOVE all the dancing in the movie Dirty Dancing.

 

 

But you're right not to throw in the towel. It will require some work. With the right tools, you'll come out on top - no matter what happens.

 

Thanks.

[Kamille]

I have to disagree with you on this, K. He linked her cleaning/cooking to being a poor wife. He IS thinking about how LB would be as a wife, not only with regards to "wife skills" but the way she handles criticism, tough times, etc. She breaks down every time, like you said. I'd love to see LB gain some strength in the latter regard.

 

 

I thought someone might disagree , but notice I said they both need to learn to separate issues, not just LB. Cleaning became this big an issue because of the pressure they both put on themselves and on each other. I think their inability to seperate issues - and focus on cleaning when cleaning is the issue- is what gets them stuck in these argumentative cycles. This doesn't change the fact that LB is right to take marriage off the table. They need to figure out how they work together, on different fields, they need to mature into the relationship before taking another step.

[Treasa]

I think part of the problem is that you don't have enough single girl friends. I'm not saying you have to go out clubbing or anything, but what about just getting together, cooking something together, watching fun movies, and drinking wine?

[Kamille]

I thought someone might disagree , but notice I said they both need to learn to separate issues, not just LB. Cleaning became this big an issue because of the pressure they both put on themselves and on each other. I think their inability to seperate issues - and focus on cleaning when cleaning is the issue- is what gets them stuck in these argumentative cycles. This doesn't change the fact that LB is right to take marriage off the table. They need to figure out how they work together, on different fields, they need to mature into the relationship before taking another step.

 

I just wanted to add: LB's focus on marriage - and therefore LB's bf's forced focus on marriage - makes it so it is difficult for them to approach 'small' everyday issues without constantly refering to their whole relationship (and where it is going). This isn't proving to be a very productive way to approach small conflicts in their relationship because it keeps making her feel insecure in what has proven to be an otherwise stable and supporting (though not fail-proof) relationship (as his texting and support today testifies).

[Star Gazer]

The dance class may not happen, but it looked like fun. Plus, we do enjoy doing things together. Yes, I want to gain some independence and do things on my own, but I do still want to spend time with him.

 

I'm just worried you'd take the dance class in lieu of something on your own if scheduling conflicts arise. Thing is, you live together and both work day jobs. Me thinks you have plenty of time together. Me thinks the amount of time you spend together is actually thwarting your ability to make other friends. For now, focus on doing things for YOU. You already do so much for the relationship.

 

Do you have couple-friends? Can you get together with JUST the female(s) of those couple friends?

 

I thought someone might disagree , but notice I said they both need to learn to separate issues, not just LB. Cleaning became this big an issue because of the pressure they both put on themselves and on each other. I think their inability to seperate issues - and focus on cleaning when cleaning is the issue- is what gets them stuck in these argumentative cycles. This doesn't change the fact that LB is right to take marriage off the table. They need to figure out how they work together, on different fields, they need to mature into the relationship before taking another step.

 

Your perspective on this is really confusing to me, because you were the one that said cleaning/cooking IS a lifestyle trait and oh-so-important to people who live together.

 

Unfortunatley, I don't think he can - nor do I think it's wise - to separate his relationship needs (he needs someone who cooks, cleans) from relationship discussions.

 

I think part of the problem is that you don't have enough single girl friends. I'm not saying you have to go out clubbing or anything, but what about just getting together, cooking something together, watching fun movies, and drinking wine?

 

I totally agree. I can't recall the last time I went to a club, but I have a strong group of girlfriends who I get together with on a regular basis... doing that tonight, in fact.

 

I'm curious why LB only had one close friend (the BFF that moved to CA) preceding her BF.

[Kamille]

 

 

Your perspective on this is really confusing to me, because you were the one that said cleaning/cooking IS a lifestyle trait and oh-so-important to people who live together.

 

Unfortunatley, I don't think he can - nor do I think it's wise - to separate his relationship needs (he needs someone who cooks, cleans) from relationship discussions.

 

 

 

 

Oh I see where the confusion comes from. CLeaning is a fundamental relationship issue, but I think it is a solvable relationship issue. When it comes to cleaning, there are a million spaces for compromises, much as LB has shown herself: it took them one day to figure out a compromise that works for them. Plus, in everyone of my living arrangements, whether with roomates, parents or partners, I have made compromises to make the other happy (such as not leaving cutting boards dirthy, putting my towels in designated hanging area, not putting knives in the sink and the list goes on).

 

As to whether he needs someone who cooks and cleans, then I guess it is up to Laurie to ask him if this is a dealbreaker for him or not. At the same time, I don't think it would hurt Laurie to make a bit of an effort on this front. Like Touche (BG) and I were saying, often time, partners are happy just to see us try. Think of the compromises you've requested in pasts relationships: I knew I wasn't going to get my way 100%, but if my partner so much as met me 1/3 of the way, I felt I was in a loving, trusting relationship. The times when partners reacted defensively to requests of mine were the times when I would put the whole relationship into question (such as with the smoking issue with my last ex).

 

Obviously her bf isn't sharing his concerns about cleaning to be a tyrant. He's looking for a compromise because he wants things to work out. I'm not saying he did it tactfully, but bad communication is still communication.

[Lauriebell82]

I'm just worried you'd take the dance class in lieu of something on your own if scheduling conflicts arise. Thing is, you live together and both work day jobs. Me thinks you have plenty of time together. Me thinks the amount of time you spend together is actually thwarting your ability to make other friends. For now, focus on doing things for YOU. You already do so much for the relationship.

 

Do you have couple-friends? Can you get together with JUST the female(s) of those couple friends?.

 

Yeah, you are right on that. We decided not to do it anyway because of work conflicts. I do plan on doing the self-defense class, because maybe I'll be able to meet some friends.

 

We do have couple friends, I'm not really close to any of them though. My BF has a good freind at work who has a wife. We have gone on double dates a few times. She is a few years older than me but I should see if she wants to hang out (just us) sometime. I'm sure my bf would be able to set something like that up.

 

Your perspective on this is really confusing to me, because you were the one that said cleaning/cooking IS a lifestyle trait and oh-so-important to people who live together.

 

Unfortunatley, I don't think he can - nor do I think it's wise - to separate his relationship needs (he needs someone who cooks, cleans) from relationship discussions.

 

I think I do need to make more of an effort. I actually cooked a meal for us last night (by myself!) I grilled shrimp and chicken on the stove and then marinated it in italian dressing. I also made us some salad and cut up some apples. He loved it actually! It wasn't that bad either. Not too hard. I also made an effort to clean up the kitchen afterward too.

 

 

I totally agree. I can't recall the last time I went to a club, but I have a strong group of girlfriends who I get together with on a regular basis... doing that tonight, in fact.

 

I'm curious why LB only had one close friend (the BFF that moved to CA) preceding her BF.

 

Well, I didn't have a lot of close friends from high school, only 4. My one friend was in the peace corps and now she is over in Eygpt teaching English. My other freind had a baby last year so she is really busy with that. When my best friend was home we all went out together and it was fun! I do have another friend as well that i met in college and she lives like 10 minutes from us. I like to go out with her as well. So I do have them, it's just hard because now I work full time and so do they. It's hard that my best friend left though, I am closest to her.

[JamesM]

I do plan on doing the self-defense class, because maybe I'll be able to meet some friends.

 

Maybe you will meet a nice guy.

 

I think I do need to make more of an effort. I actually cooked a meal for us last night (by myself!) I grilled shrimp and chicken on the stove and then marinated it in italian dressing.

 

Good job. You pick the harder things right away.

 

I also made an effort to clean up the kitchen afterward too.

 

Actually, the one who cooks doesn't need to clean in our household.

 

 

 

Keep up the attitude and change, but please be sure it is not for the wrong reasons.

[norajane]

We do have couple friends, I'm not really close to any of them though. My BF has a good freind at work who has a wife. We have gone on double dates a few times. She is a few years older than me but I should see if she wants to hang out (just us) sometime. I'm sure my bf would be able to set something like that up.

 

You don't need your bf to set something up for you!!

 

Call these ladies up and ask them out for coffee, or to go shopping with you. And when you're out, ask them if they'd like to take that self-defense class with you.

[sb129]

I just wanted to add: LB's focus on marriage - and therefore LB's bf's forced focus on marriage - makes it so it is difficult for them to approach 'small' everyday issues without constantly refering to their whole relationship (and where it is going). This isn't proving to be a very productive way to approach small conflicts in their relationship because it keeps making her feel insecure in what has proven to be an otherwise stable and supporting (though not fail-proof) relationship (as his texting and support today testifies).

I agree with this.

 

 

LB- why don't you take a COOKING course! There are some awesome ones out there these days that are a little more gourmet than your average home-ec class.

 

I even gave my H a set of classes as a wedding present because he loves cooking so much, and he is amazing in the kitchen- so they suit all abilities.

 

It would be fun, you would be challenged (which is good) and you would learn a new skill that you could be proud of.

Then you can invite your new pals over for dinner and cook for them......

[Star Gazer]

I'm sure my bf would be able to set something like that up.

 

Laaaaauuuurrrriiiieeeeee, why are you relying on your BF in this regard? Get their phone number or email addy, and "ask them out." Go shopping, to a movie, ask them to join you for yoga. YOU do it.

 

I think I do need to make more of an effort. I actually cooked a meal for us last night (by myself!) I grilled shrimp and chicken on the stove and then marinated it in italian dressing. I also made us some salad and cut up some apples. He loved it actually! It wasn't that bad either. Not too hard. I also made an effort to clean up the kitchen afterward too.

 

There's a cookbook by Martha Stewart that's VERY basic. Teaches you all the basic steps, and some simple meals. The Food Network is also a great resource, watch some shows. Actually, now that I think about it, Raechel Ray has a receipe called - get this! - "You Won't Be Single For Long Pasta"! A coworker made this last week, and it was soooo good! Apparently, it has special powers, and will make a man propose! Ha!

 

http://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/rachael-ray/you-wont-be-single-for-long-vodka-cream-pasta-recipe/index.html

 

Well, I didn't have a lot of close friends from high school, only 4. My one friend was in the peace corps and now she is over in Eygpt teaching English. My other freind had a baby last year so she is really busy with that. When my best friend was home we all went out together and it was fun! I do have another friend as well that i met in college and she lives like 10 minutes from us. I like to go out with her as well. So I do have them, it's just hard because now I work full time and so do they. It's hard that my best friend left though, I am closest to her.

 

I know, it's really hard to make GOOD girlfriends. That's why it's important to find some interests AWAY from your BF that you really enjoy. There will be women there who like those activities too, and you'll bond over them, and next thing you know you'll have some great friends.

 

Don't be hesitant to befriend people that are older than you either. They probably can help you grow in many ways.

[Lauriebell82]

Laaaaauuuurrrriiiieeeeee, why are you relying on your BF in this regard? Get their phone number or email addy, and "ask them out." Go shopping, to a movie, ask them to join you for yoga. YOU do it.

 

Well by "setting up" I meant more like my boyfriend getting their phone number and telling them I asked for it. Then I can do the calling and see if they want to hang out. I'm a little nervous, it's like asking a guy out or something!

 

I looked at the cooking classes, the one that I wanted to take is at a college far away (there are like 5 different campuses for the same community college in our area) because they only offer classes at certain locations. There is one on "cooking appetizers" that looked interesting. There are also specialty ones on cooking italian, french, and chinese food. So I'm definately looking in to them.

[movingonandon]

I feel like sometimes my boyfriend can't accept my faults. It's almost like he loves me, but if I deviate from this perfect perspective he has of a mate, he tries to show me how to do it better or want me to do something that I don't usually and/or like to do(like cook). His parents never fought (or so he says) so he has this perfect view of a relationship with no conflict and both partners acting a certain way to keep things happy.

 

Overall we are happy, we don't fight like cats and dogs or anything but we do have arguments here and there. We always make up and have a great time doing it, but he'll always say "let's not fight like that anymore." I have tried to tell him that fights happen, you can't prevent conflict from happening. We will always apologize and he will say he is sorry for acting like a jerk and tell me he loves me, but it's like well the damage is already done, and you can't take it back.

 

So what does everyone think about this? Any feelings, opinions, or insight?

 

 

Old thread, but here's m2c --> Your boyfriend needs to learn how to keep it in check. I know, because that's how I allienated my ex-girlfriend. I cared about her a lot and always had her best interest in mind, but dealt with her shortcomings in a very paternalistic and condescending way, so she got tired of it, even though i was "right".

 

Also, depends on what faults are we talking about... There is hard to discern line between mildly annoying traits and traits that could potentially signify major differences in how people deal (or not) with life.

 

I'm not saying that love should be unconditional - that's silly, since what draws people together is precisely that their "criteria" match - but for some people it is hard to understand that you can't control the relationship the way you order your closet, for example... the point is that there will always be things that annoy us in our partner. Maturity is discerning the ones that are dealbreakers and the ones that are just refleciton of our differences. In the case of the former, the only sensible approach is to leave, in the case of the latter, acceptance and understanding are in order...

 

The bad news is that this is generally pretty persistent and hard to change pattern of behavior, so your boyfriend might need some shock to realise that this is not a minor deal. It is like cigarette smoking - every single cigarette (or act of perfectionism) doesn't do much damage as such, but the cumulative pattern of smoking (or condescending behavior) can be lethal..