Lauriebell82 Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 I feel like sometimes my boyfriend can't accept my faults. It's almost like he loves me, but if I deviate from this perfect perspective he has of a mate, he tries to show me how to do it better or want me to do something that I don't usually and/or like to do(like cook). His parents never fought (or so he says) so he has this perfect view of a relationship with no conflict and both partners acting a certain way to keep things happy. Overall we are happy, we don't fight like cats and dogs or anything but we do have arguments here and there. We always make up and have a great time doing it, but he'll always say "let's not fight like that anymore." I have tried to tell him that fights happen, you can't prevent conflict from happening. We will always apologize and he will say he is sorry for acting like a jerk and tell me he loves me, but it's like well the damage is already done, and you can't take it back. So what does everyone think about this? Any feelings, opinions, or insight?
BareGoddess Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Acceptance is a two-way street. Do you accept him just as he is?
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 Acceptance is a two-way street. Do you accept him just as he is? Yes. I know that I am not going to be able to change him, and while he can say he can "work on things" he isn't going to change overnight, if not at all. He's not a bad guy, but he has some annoying things that I doubt will change.
Ariadne Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 So what does everyone think about this? Any feelings, opinions, or insight? I remember when I was married to my first husband, my mother came to visit and told me that we got along just "awful". I was shocked she said that, and told her that we got along great. She said, you get along well?! You fight all the time! And she was right. Fights and getting along well don´t go together. A few years later we got divorced.
Kamille Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 I feel like sometimes my boyfriend can't accept my faults. It's almost like he loves me, but if I deviate from this perfect perspective he has of a mate, he tries to show me how to do it better or want me to do something that I don't usually and/or like to do(like cook). Is he trying to change you or is he striving for compromises? How good are you at taking criticism? Maybe his goal is to improve the relationship, not change you.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 I remember when I was married to my first husband, my mother came to visit and told me that we got along just "awful". I was shocked she said that, and told her that we got along great. She said, you get along well?! You fight all the time! And she was right. Fights and getting along well don´t go together. A few years later we got divorced. I'm sorry to hear that. It's much easier to see inside another relationship then into your own. How often would you fight? I mean IMO I think everyone has some kind of fight or argument sometimes, but there is a fine line probably.
carhill Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 It's going to be a loooong week Well, if my wife is setting the kitchen on fire, should I let the house burn down? (true story) TBH, I've read enough of your threads that I think you two really need to see a PMC. Seriously
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 Is he trying to change you or is he striving for compromises? How good are you at taking criticism? Maybe his goal is to improve the relationship, not change you. I'm pretty sensitive, but I have gotten better at taken constructive criticism. Nothing he says is real mean (aside from a comment he made that really hurt me). I don't know if his goal is to improve the relationship because he is pretty much doing the complete opposite. The things he tries to tell me to "improve on" aren't really relationship issues. I'm kind of messy but WAS making an effort to clean. And he tries to tell me how to drive ALL THE TIME. I try not to even drive with him in the car becuase I know he will do it. But he tells me he wants me to drive then picks on me. Same with cleaning. I don't know how me cleaning better or driving at a lower speed is a relationship issue...
BareGoddess Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Yes. I know that I am not going to be able to change him, and while he can say he can "work on things" he isn't going to change overnight, if not at all. He's not a bad guy, but he has some annoying things that I doubt will change. You used the word "change" 3 times in that short paragraph. You say that you know that you're not going to be able to change him but the fact that you even WANT to change him, is worrisome. Neither one of you accept the other as you are. I've read enough of your threads to see that. As for the fighting...it's not the fighting in and of itself that can be the issue, it's WHAT your fighting about (is it the same stuff over and over again..that's important) and HOW you fight that matters. Has he stopped with the name-calling for example?
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 It's going to be a loooong week Well, if my wife is setting the kitchen on fire, should I let the house burn down? (true story) TBH, I've read enough of your threads that I think you two really need to see a PMC. Seriously HAHA, no def. not. We could see a counselor, however I have insight into our issues that a counselor would probably see too. He gets mad when I try to counsel him though.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 You used the word "change" 3 times in that short paragraph. You say that you know that you're not going to be able to change him but the fact that you even WANT to change him, is worrisome. Neither one of you accept the other as you are. I've read enough of your threads to see that. As for the fighting...it's not the fighting in and of itself that can be the issue, it's WHAT your fighting about (is it the same stuff over and over again..that's important) and HOW you fight that matters. Has he stopped with the name-calling for example? Yeah, I see what you mean. I don't want to change who he is, but there are things that annoy me that he does. I think every couple has stuff that annoys them. But I don't want to change who he is. I really do accept him. He did stop name calling. He called me the "b word" a couple times and I told him that hurt me, so he hasn't done it. What do you mean "how we fight?" Like whether we scream or shout or swear?
JamesM Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 HAHA, no def. not. We could see a counselor, however I have insight into our issues that a counselor would probably see too. He gets mad when I try to counsel him though. I have read allot of your threads, too. I see a good relationship. However, I see you worrying about many details. I could be wrong. Fighting is normal. How we handle fights is the difference between divorce and a long term marriage. My question is...what happens when you tell him exactly what you told us in your first post? How does he respond?
Kamille Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Cleaning is a relationship issue. It's about how you set up your house together, what kind of home you want to run together, etc. I'm kind of stunned that you don't see cleaning as a relationship issue. Relationships are about feelings, sure, but once you know you love each other, they become about how you manage everyday chores, budgets, etc, together. As to the driving - he certainly wouldn't be the first nervous passenger out there. Is he nervous when other people drive in general, or just with you? Plus, one could argue that it is somewhat of a relationship issue since it is your security, his, and eventually that of your children that is at stake. In short, while I think I understand the dynamic you want to describe, it seems to me that both example you mention are not about changing you or your personality, but "making a home" together. Driving and cleaning are habits, not personality traits.
BareGoddess Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Yeah, I see what you mean. I don't want to change who he is, but there are things that annoy me that he does. I think every couple has stuff that annoys them. But I don't want to change who he is. I really do accept him. Ok, that's good. I wasn't sure from what you said. But of course every couple has stuff that annoy each other. He did stop name calling. He called me the "b word" a couple times and I told him that hurt me, so he hasn't done it. Ok, that's good. But what about this: Nothing he says is real mean (aside from a comment he made that really hurt me). What did he say? What do you mean "how we fight?" Like whether we scream or shout or swear? Yes, that's what I meant. Scream, shout, swear, call names, throw things, etc.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 I have read allot of your threads, too. I see a good relationship. However, I see you worrying about many details. I could be wrong. Fighting is normal. How we handle fights is the difference between divorce and a long term marriage. My question is...what happens when you tell him exactly what you told us in your first post? How does he respond? I didn't tell him exactly what I told you guys but that might be a good idea. I told him that I felt he is trying to turn me into "June Cleaver" and he said that he isn't, he just doesn't want a messy house and is worried that if we have a family someday, I will leave the house and mess there will be clothes everywhere. It's like my current behavior freaks him out and he questions whether or not I am the one for him becuase of these particular faults.
Author Lauriebell82 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 Yes, that's what I meant. Scream, shout, swear, call names, throw things, etc. No, we don't do any of that. We raise voices but that's about it. The mean thing he said was that I will make a terrible wife and I don't do anything around the apartment. (I got pissed because neither of those are true).
Geishawhelk Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Lauriebell, first of all I think he's trying to replicate his parents' relationship. He says it was wonderful and they never fought. Which is all well and good, but for two things: This is a possibility: I can tell you hand on heart as I live and breathe I swear to you - my ex- and I never fought. Never. We were the perfectly matched, ideal couple. But the marriage lacked spice, pazzazz, life, vibrancy, intimacy, closeness and frankly - love. So although his parents' marriage looked perfect from the outside - you and probably he - cannot have any idea what was going on, on the inside. And this is a definite: You are not his parents. Whatever he wants to construct, he can't. You are two different people. he is not his father and you most certainly are not his mother. If he can't accept that you two have a different dynamic, then he has a serious problem. He fears conflict. But that's just tough. He sees it as purely destructive, but a goiod bellow with someone you trust, is very cathartic at times. So - does he trust you to work to keep the relationship going, even though you might fight? It sounds to me as if actually there's quite a bit of insecurity here and lack of communication. On both sides.
JamesM Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 What do you mean "how we fight?" Like whether we scream or shout or swear? If I could comment based on over 18 years of marriage.... We have fought numerous times. And I don't say that we always fight in a constructive way, but usually. When two people fight to win or fight with name calling or using hurting statements meant solely to demean and have nothing to do with the issue at hand, then this is not good fighting. And as has been mentioned, when the fights continually keep happening about the same issue with no change of positions, then the two need to look at whether this is an issue that needs to be "ignored" or if it is an issue that will always be divisive. And if divisive, is it a deal breaker? Good fighting involves two angry people arguing about the issue at hand without the use of past arguments or without the use of name calling that for character breakdown. When the goal is resolution, then it will be a good "fight." When the goal is for one person to win...and that person usually does, then it is not good fighting and the result will be unresolved anger and built up resentment. This is where an outside counselor comes into play. While you may be a great counselor, you cannot be a counselor for your own self or for your own marriage. You are not objective, and even if you think so, I doubt HE will. Even counselors utilize counselors. Relax. I am guessing that you have a good relationship.
JamesM Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 The mean thing he said was that I will make a terrible wife and I don't do anything around the apartment. (I got pissed because neither of those are true). Being that you are eagerly waiting to become his wife, this is a low blow that is uncalled for. My guess is that is was intentional. If he does this often, then maybe outside consultation would be helpful.
BareGoddess Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Excellent post, James. I agree completely. LB, did he say you'd make a bad wife BECAUSE of the cleaning issue or because of other things? Funny, but I've had the same thing with my H (cleaning and driving issue...solved it though;))
carhill Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 I don't know if his goal is to improve the relationship because he is pretty much doing the complete opposite. The things he tries to tell me to "improve on" aren't really relationship issues. I'm kind of messy but WAS making an effort to clean. And he tries to tell me how to drive ALL THE TIME. I try not to even drive with him in the car becuase I know he will do it. But he tells me he wants me to drive then picks on me. Same with cleaning. I don't know how me cleaning better or driving at a lower speed is a relationship issue... I've dealt with these issues. Let me help... Cleaning disparities are a problem when the "messy" party cleans with lust and purpose prior to entertaining guests and then returns to the messy setpoint once guests leave. This indicates to the "clean" party that the guests are more important than the partner/spouse. If you do not clean your house like a possessed person prior to entertaining, ignore my example Driving - Accidents and tickets cost the offending party money and time, time and money taken away from the partnership. Tell me how many tickets you've received and how many you should have received. Yes, think about that. My perspective is, when my wife drives like a banshee because she's disorganized and late and gets into an accident or gathers a ticket (all true), she's disrespected our relationship with her behavior and has cost it time and money needlessly, not to mention enriching a government I detest and/or injuring another innocent party. Complaining about the above is my fault, especially when I'm the one cleaning and arriving on time with my wallet intact. Fair enough Behaviors such as driving style, cleanliness and organization are reflective of basic personality characteristics. Compatibility of such characteristics is essential for a healthy and mutually satisfying relationship. Marked disparity of such characteristics is exceedingly difficult to reconcile without much work and dedication by both parties. Also, lastly, when you expect your BF to "complain", that colors your perception of him, even if he doesn't complain. Just as, for me, my wife's history of mishaps colors my perception of that car we're bearing down on at the stop sign, regardless of whether she stops or not
hotgurl Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Well what you wrote about aren't "faults" they are just habits. You happen to have a different standard of clean than your BF. But since you both live together you need to come up with a compromise. I see his point as I am a clean persona nd I need my house in order to feel comfortable. MY husband doesn't care but since I am the one who it bothers I do most of the cleaning and He does all the outside work. So it works well for us. You two need to work something out be it hiring a housekeeper or rotating cleaning duties. The driving on the other hand is his problem. Just tell him he needs to keep it to himself. How sensitive are you? I mean can he bring stuff up. or not I had a roommate who was really sensitive and it was so irritating because anytime you brought something up she cried. It was like being held hostage emotionally.
Ariadne Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 How often would you fight? I mean IMO I think everyone has some kind of fight or argument sometimes, but there is a fine line probably. Well, I thought it was barely so and it was just some arguments here and there. But it was my mother to point it out. I´d say every second day we had an argument about something. Small stuff but still.
Trialbyfire Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 I think some members brought up good points, in that these two issues, cleaning and driving can be habits. It also depends on the degree of separation, which could easily make them disparaties of personality or lifestyle. You need to find some middle ground with the cleaning. This means that you have to learn to clean for yourself and not just allow it to be an onerous chore you're doing "FOR" him. It's something that's good for both of you. He needs to back off about the driving. Just refuse to drive him. When you're together, let him drive.
Kamille Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Being that you are eagerly waiting to become his wife, this is a low blow that is uncalled for. My guess is that is was intentional. I think it was intentional, but I don't think it was ill-intentioned. Laurie has had threads after threads wondering when he was going to propose and it seems to me that here he is making it clear why he is hesitant. I don't think the comment should be dismissed as ill-intentioned. Rather he is communicating something. Laurie, it's obvious he loves you but would perhaps want you to be more 'household' minded before he feels truly comfortable thinking of you as the future mother of his children. The nagging comes from there. He wants you to pay attention to the little details that are at the centre of your everyday life. This isn't to say his expectations in regards to cleaning and cooking are fair. Just that if you validate his concerns (instead of reacting to them with self-defense) it might make him feel like you two are building towards the same goals. Now, I share your pain: I tend to be the messy one in my relationships - but usually am the 'anal' driver. When it comes to cleanliness, I find there are tricks that help me stay cleaner: like having a broom on each floor (and handy), having lots of storage for my stuff, a coathanger by the door, etc. Try to pay attention to the areas where you tend to be messy and focus on what you would need to improve those. (For instance, if you always leave clothes on the floor, perhaps you need to move your clothes hamper). Also, I always negotiate a 'me space', either a drawer or a part of room, where I'm allowed to be as messy as I want. That way, when I feel too rushed to clean thoroughly, I take everything that is in the way, throw it in the space and deal with it later. (And I go through the space once or twice a year to clean it up). Of course, my partners aren't allowed to comment on the 'me space'. In all my relationships, we would trade chores we hated: I hate mopping floors but don't mind cleaning toilets. My ex would therefore clean the floors and I would clean the washroom. See if there are exchanges like that you can do. I'm thinking, also, that since he is the cleaner one, the house might be organized according to his cleaning habits. I'm sure he would be willing to experiment different ones to see if they help you out.
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