mcg49 Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 I hope this is the right forum in which to post this; it's hard to fit it into any one category! OK. I am going to start by listing the facts about the relationship I'm in. One of the facts may freak you out. Please try to withhold judgment until having read all the facts. We've been together a little more than two years. He (call him Frank) is in his mid-fifties, I am in my late twenties. He is married. (That's the freak-out, here's the explanation.) His wife (call her Jane) knows; he came out to her several years ago and they decided not to end the marriage immediately. She is completely aware that he dates men and was aware long before we met. They do not live together, but I have met her, she knows all about us, and she is very understanding and supportive. So are their adult children. Needless to say, he and Jane have not been intimate for years. Regarding the relationship itself, while we have our share of problems, we make a very good match emotionally, physically, intellectually, and I can see Frank being a good lifetime match. He's told me he loves me more than any man he's ever loved and places me on equal footing with his wife, and I feel the same about him (sans wife, of course). When we first met, I was not looking for a long-term relationship and so his marriage (given that the wife was fully informed and consenting) was not a dealbreaker for me. However, since we hit it off so well and have grown closer over the last two years, the marriage is becoming more and more of a problem. I am feeling more and more jealous of Jane's position in my boyfriend's life; it's like she's a living reminder that I'm being denied the security of marriage or even of a truly binding commitment. Gay marriage is not legal in our state, but we can't make a trip to Massachussetts or Quebec. We can't even sign the legal documents to grant each other the same kind of securities; everything he might want to grant to me, she already has. I can list him as beneficiary on as many of my insurance policies as I want, but it's only ever going to be one-way. It's frustrating to the point that even when I'm around Jane, although she is always as kind and gracious as can be, I find myself acting cold to her, putting on a fake grin, wishing she weren't there, and I know she picks up on it. I've even gotten short with her and said some rude things I didn't mean (though not screaming or abusive or anything) and I don't want to be that kind of person. None of this is her fault - she's the one completely innocent party in the whole situation. It's just that when I'm 30 or 40 I want to have a relationship where each is unequivocally number one in the other's life (pending possible kids) and I'm starting to resent the fact that, for Frank, that spot is already taken. Frank and I have talked about the future of their marriage and how it relates to our relationship. Soon after we met he indicated that they would "re-evaluate" their marriage should he meet Mr. Right, but in a more recent conversation he only talked about his responsibilities to her and how he could not walk away from them. And he's right - Jane only works sporadically but relies on his income and insurance. It isn't that Jane is not a strong, capable woman - should they divorce, I have no doubt she would make it just fine - but just that she chose to focus on being a wife and mother rather than have a professional career. There is the possibility of Frank continuing to support her financially, but if that were the case, why should they not just stay married? I think if I laid down an ultimatum and said, divorce her or I have to go, there's about a 50-50 chance he would actually do it. But despite my position in Frank's life, I don't feel like I have the right as the two-year boyfriend to make decisions about a twenty-plus-year marriage, regardless of the lack of passion or intimacy. Even if I did, I feel like a divorce is not an end in itself, but only opens the door to a deeper relationship with Frank. This conflicts with the other feeling I have, in that as soon as the divorce papers were signed, Frank and I would be as good as married, in my mind - asking for a divorce is not something you ask of a boyfriend but of someone you are positive you want as a life partner. I love Frank dearly but can't make that promise quite yet. Do you see the Catch-22 here? I don't feel like I can ask them to divorce because I'm not ready to ask for Frank's hand in marriage or life partnership or whatever. And a huge reason I can't make that promise to Frank is because he's married. And around and around I go. So the question is: should I ask them to divorce? In favor of: He would feel much happier with me as a life partner than his wife. She would gain the ability to seek out a man who can love her and appreciate her on all levels while she is still young enough to do so. I would stop feeling so completely loony every time Jane is in the house. Frank and I could move in together and actually grant each other some of the securities of a legitimate couple. I could finally introduce Frank to my family without shame - or at least, less shame. Also, if they don't divorce Frank and I will probably have to break up because I will lose my effing mind. Against: They've been married for upwards of two decades; I'm the two-year boytoy and therefore my right to even ask is extremely questionable. Jane would undergo some not-insignificant financial hardship. Their children will most likely hate me, and (possibly but not probably) Frank. I'd wrestle with guilt forever, and feel like garbage when I sat across from Jane at the Thanksgiving table. I'd essentially be asking Frank to be my life partner, which I'm not quite ready for. If they divorced and then Frank and I split up for whatever reason afterwards, I'd have ruined a marriage (albeit a sexless marriage borne of obligation) for nothing. I don't expect to get the final answer on here - gosh, I feel bad for posting something like this when I only just discovered this board this afternoon - but I would dearly love to see other people's take on my situation. Anything that might help me see it from a different perspective would be greatly appreciated. Thanks for any advice, and thanks just for reading this far.
Geishawhelk Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 This is their decision, not yours. your only decision - and one you should discuss with him, and him alone - is what he feels your status is within the relationship you have with him. You need to know where you stand. but as for the other matters - really, not your direct concern. .
sadintexas Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 I agree with GW. That is his decision to make so giving an ultimatum or any such thing isn't the right thing to do, and something you yourself are not ready to deal with anyway. You should talk to him and let him know how you feel. Two years is enough time to consider where your relationship is going and to have serious talks of whether or not there is a future. Just be honest with him. Tell him you're not even ready for that step yet, but you've realized how the relationship is limited because of the marriage. With your large age difference, and the fact that he has been married and had kids and all that, it may very well be that you have different priorities. He might be happy with a commited long term relationship and you eventually want marriage. If that's the case, it would be better to know that now and make your decision on whether or not you want to pursue someone who has the same long term interests as you, or if you love him enough to give up the idea or marriage AND accept her as a permanent part of your life together. I can also imagine that guilt plays a large part in his decision to remain married to her. He made vows to her and he's sticking by them. I'm sure he knew he was gay but did the straight thing anyway so in a sense deceived her and took away her option to find someone else and create a family with someone else 20 years ago. I would think that's a big burden for him. I don't understand why you couldn't live together though even if he remains married. That part doesn't make sense to me.
BareGoddess Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 I don't understand why you couldn't live together though even if he remains married. That part doesn't make sense to me. I was kind of wondering something along those lines too...or at least a separation? I mean I lived with my (then) fiance' (now H) while I was still only legally separated (not yet divorced) from my ex. I mean if it's all out in the open and everything, what's really stopping him? Also I was wondering about what you said here: There is the possibility of Frank continuing to support her financially, but if that were the case, why should they not just stay married? I don't get that...why can't he divorce her and live with you and still provide some kind of spousal support? That's done all the time in cases where one spouse gave up a career to run the house and take care of the children. But I do agree with the others that this will have to be his decision in the end. The ball is in your court, however, whether you want to accept the status quo or not. I really don't understand why the wife would even still want to live with her husband under these circumstances. Doesn't she want a life of her own? Why would she settle for this quasi-marriage? It doesn't even sound like a marriage at all...more like living with a roommate.
Author mcg49 Posted January 12, 2009 Author Posted January 12, 2009 Thanks so much for the replies so far, everyone. The one thing everyone has agreed on is that it's not my decision to make, which I agree with as well. It's just that this has gotten to the point where if asking them to divorce is going to save my relationship with Frank, then I might be willing to do that. In the end, though, when I see them all at gatherings and see what a strong family unit they have... I don't think I'd be able to break that up. Having marriage (or, given the law, pseudo-marriage) cut off from me is just frustrating to the point that it's threatening the relationship. Geishawhelk: We have had this conversation and I do know where I stand - in terms of emotion and romance, I am number one. In terms of daily life and responsibilities, she comes first. This is understandable since I work and support myself just fine - it's just that I'm sure in a few years when I need a more settled, committed relationship the daily life will be spilling over into the emotional in a big way. I basically said, flat-out, that I was thinking about marriage and everything one day, and if I did decide that, would he divorce Jane to allow that to happen? His response was 'I don't know' followed by a listing of all his responsibilities to her. In my opinion, the number one responsibility of a husband to a wife is to place the utmost importance on her happiness and ability to grow as a person, and if I was married found myself permanently unable to satisfy my wife on all levels including the romantic and physical, I would set her free to find that with another man. But that is just me, and I did not grow up in an era that placed such intense social pressure on young people to marry. You're exactly right, it's not my decision. sadintexas: The reason I don't think we can live together while he's married is that I see living together as a stop on the path to further commitment, not the end. In my mind (and I totally recognize this is different for everyone), after a year or three of living together, if getting married is still off the table then you've sort of become 'sex roommates,' and that isn't what I want as the years go by. In my mind, even though his existing marriage is passionless and very roommate-like, it's still marriage - holy effin' matrimony - and any commitment ceremonies or vows we made would be only be so much theater so long as he's still betrothed. I realize some people could do it, but I can't quite get myself to accept that level of cognitive dissonance, where even though all the papers and contracts and church documents say that he's married to Jane, he's really married to me. No, he's married to her. Maybe that's wrong but it's how I feel about the situation. BareGoddess: Re alimony: it's a possibility - in fact when I think about it, almost certain. Jane is a very subservient, submissive Christian lady, and when Frank originally came out to her I believe he put the question of divorce entirely in her hands - I don't think it's what I would have done, but if I were in that situation, who knows what I would have done. I think she thought she would have been causing him hardship had she divorced him. She actually once asked Frank when I was not present if he wanted them to divorce so he and I could be more committed, but Frank shot the idea down. I feel like asking Jane directly about her feelings on the marriage, but like I said, subservient Christian lady, will almost never express an opinion or desire. I can almost promise if I so much as broach the subject with her, even in passing, she will be the one to serve Frank with papers, out of a spirit of self-sacrifice if nothing else.
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