missswiss Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 MM, OW, W, everyone - Please help me see the wood from the trees – he wont make a decision, so it looks as if its down to me. Ok, so after reading a few posts, am getting the knack for the lingo. It would seem I am the OW. I met a MM on a plane 1.5 yrs ago. Got on like a house on fire. Ironically spoke about his marriage and that he would never leave is wife (was there after a debilitating accident etc etc.) We’re both travelling business people. I was with my BF at the time but didn’t work out before me and MM got together. First time affair for both of us (me for sure, him I doubt now and again- has had interaction with gorgeous girl in his office in Russia but didn’t fancy her coz he knew she was just a user looking for a foreign husband – but was helping her with her English and has provocative pics still on lap-top, he showed me! But I have to learn to trust him he says – he’s either innocent or a complete manipulator, right? ). Anyhow, it started with 1 yr friendship via email, nothing sinister, some flirting but no meetings or soliciting, met at airport again a yr later, sparks flew, and affair began. The usual comparing diaries to see when and where we can see each other.. go the extra mile to satisfy in bed etc. I moved from UK to Switzerland with work a couple of months ago, so it makes it harder, but I go there sometimes, and a few times he’s stayed for a few days, and recently a week playing happy couple here.. except when he has to call home to check in, then reality sets in. If anything, the relationship is getting stronger, albeight more intense. We have satisfying sex but its beyond that and 98% of the time its us getting on so well without sexual influence. I love him, and he loves me, I’m starting to believe that because I’ve been with enough (a handful) guys to know there is a difference with him and how complete and satisfied I feel when we’re together. We’re just on the same wavelength when it comes to communication, affection, intimacy etc. if it wasn’t for the arguing surrounding the fact that he’s married and making me wait till he can make a decision, we’d be in a blissfully happy relationship, we both agree to that. So about his marriage - Wife not happy with all the travel, but oblivious to affair otherwise. Apparently the relationship has been in trouble and divorce discussed for years, but 2 kids, now 9 and 7 to consider. Allegedly they haven’t had sex since we got together 5 months ago, and he now sleeps in the spare bedroom as “it doesn’t feel right” but of course I am told to trust that each time I challenge it..and boy do I challenge!! They do normal couple stuff like visit friends family, trips etc.. and he says its all a front and they do have a troubled marriage. Reality is, I simply don’t know the truth and have no way of finding out. I know what the gut says, and although he’s consistent most of the time, there’s been a couple of slip ups, and of course he gets paranoid about any scratch or mark on his body when we’re fooling around. For someone that considers themselves quite intelligent, I feel a complete fool reading this because I know what I would say if it was me offering advice. So five months down the track, and daily in depth communication (blackberry messenger - a brilliant tool) we’re at the “love you” “never felt this for anyone” “soulmate” stage for a while now. I’ve dated a few guys since moving, but no sparks, and he hates it and gets arsey when I talk about it. I was originally open saying until he commits to me I wont commit to him, but now there’s no one around to distract me, and I think subconsciously as I’ve fallen in love with him I’ve isolated myself from other potential relationships and even told a couple of guys I kindda liked that I’m in this situation. Needless t say they disappeared quickly! Still have eyes and ears open as not get my hopes up, but on a daily basis I live and breathe this man. So now, I’m getting a little lonely and impatient when he’s home on weekends and I don’t have complete access to him. I find myself making sarcastic digs and overall impatient and pushing the boundaries trying to get a decision. He’s made no promises that he will leave his wife, and even told me he does love her when I push for an answer. At the same time, I get all the I love yous, and false hopes like how many kids we’d have, changing surnames etc.. confusing I’d say. It would seem the biggest leverage is his boys and that he’s not living with them with complete access he is hurting them. I even made an offer that I would move back to the UK and we could live really really close so they could come at any time, and although I thought this was rather a sacrifice on a personal and professional level and that he would be happy, he took it with a pinch of salt. Then when I pushed some more, came the new influence of you don’t understand.. I have my house, my family, my friends.. all will be lost if I choose you. He sees it (apparently) as choice between his kids or happiness which= me (and already told me I’d be second every time – agrees not fair on me) but basically cant see his wife and kids as two separate entities. So to me, that says he’s made a decision, right? Well, no. apparently he is yet to decide how selfish he will be by either choosing his own happiness or that of his kids.. he sees it as if he leaves the house, he has tuned his back on them. I sometimes offer to leave it as just an affair and see other people, someone I would hopefully settle with and end it that way, but “that’s not fair on you”. So we agree we either are together, or not full stop. Add a new twist… potential job offer in middle east happened whilst he was here for a week a few days ago. We discuss, what goes through his mind? “Lots to consider….. school for kids…” Hang on a minute, I don’t seem to play any role in his future.. he says custody is not an option since he travels so much and wife has always been there, so it takes not Einstein to conclude wife and kids go hand in hand – and to the middle east with him. So I push and question some more, and all I am told is to stop reading into things and not question his love for me. To trust him. That this job offer is just another spanner in the works, and when he decides, whatever he decides all will be clear. I could write a novel over this, but I must end it somewhere I suppose. So….. When will he decide? How long would you give him? What will he decide? Should I wait around as I believe its worth perusing? Am I just another OW on this forum being taken advantage of, or an exception? You be the judge (an brutally honest pleae).. I’m going bananas here!
travelgirl Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 I met a MM on a plane 1.5 yrs ago. Got on like a house on fire. Ironically spoke about his marriage and that he would never leave is wife You got your answer the VERY first day you met him. You chose to continue and think you could love or guilt him enough to leave his family but you obviously know your answer or you wouldn't be here looking for answers. Get some self respect. Your main goal right now is to be a homewrecker - all for what you think is love. He only thinks he is in love with you because he doesn't have to deal with family issues, bills, kids, work, providing for his family and all the other stresses of married life. Instead you are just a side item, a relief from his stresses. BUT... these are not stresses he is willing to give up. He will never chose you over his wife and kids. And that all said, even if he truly did want to leave his family and get together with you, you don't trust him. There are provacative pics of yet another women on his computer and who knows what else he does on his travels. Do you honestly think you will trust him when he travels while living with you? NO WAY. You are caught up in the chase. You just want to win this game. It is obsession, not honest love. Move on!!
sadintexas Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 He told you that he wouldn't leave his wife. I think that, in itself, is enough...but...perhaps over time, his feelings on that have changed and now he's telling you he's trying to make a decision. But even if that's the case, with this offer for the new job and his considerations are those pertaining to his family and specifically his children, AND he's told you that him having custody in the event of a divorce is not an option, I think you have the answer you're looking for. Unless you're willing to simply stay in an affair, there's really only one thing you can do...LEAVE. I'm not trying to threadjack here, just going to share a bit of where I was and am because it might help you since our thoughts seem to be similar. I recently made the decision to not be an OW anymore. I also thought that I could see him until I met the right man for me, but like you, my focus was on him so much that meeting someone else wasn't really an option. I wasn't truly open for that. I didn't realize that at the time, so it was a problem that just fed itself. When I went out with the intention of meeting men, my body language showed that I was not really approachable. The look on my face was disinterest because I was always thinking of him and was off in another world. I would get discouraged and think that I was not meant to meet anyone else because I was destined to be with MM. I kept telling myself that I wanted a relationship, but at that point I only wanted a relationship with the MM. Once I actually got to the point that I realized I wanted a real relationship, either with him or SOMEONE ELSE, I left MM to give him space to figure out what he wants and to give myself the opportunity to really move forward. Then a strange thing happened. I found that I'm not a walking man shield anymore! I've met three very nice men just in the month since I left MM (just going out, I don't do the online dating thing). I still think about MM and miss him, but I'm not sold anymore on the idea that he's the only one I could have that kind of relationship with. What we put into relationships is usually what we get out of them. I like to think of my experience with the MM as something that provided me with personal growth and helped me define what I want. Even though it was the wrong way to go about it, I know that I deserve more than what a MM can provide me, and I want more than what a MM can provide me. Wouldn't you like to be the person that someone is considering when they're thinking of moving, or taking a new job, or planning vacations and special surprises? I know I want to be that person. You're very unlikely to be that person to him, and you won't be that person to someone else if you don't do something for yourself and move on. Good luck to you. Keep us posted.
Mr. Lucky Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 Hang on a minute, I don’t seem to play any role in his future.. he says custody is not an option since he travels so much and wife has always been there, so it takes not Einstein to conclude wife and kids go hand in hand – and to the middle east with him. So I push and question some more, and all I am told is to stop reading into things and not question his love for me. To trust him. That this job offer is just another spanner in the works, and when he decides, whatever he decides all will be clear. I could write a novel over this, but I must end it somewhere I suppose. Doesn't that seem clear? When one has a big decision to make, a list of important factors is considered - a list that doesn't include you. Why waste any more of your life on this useless exercise? Time to move on... Mr. Lucky
Mr. Lucky Posted January 11, 2009 Posted January 11, 2009 First time affair for both of us (me for sure, him I doubt now and again- has had interaction with gorgeous girl in his office in Russia but didn’t fancy her coz he knew she was just a user looking for a foreign husband – but was helping her with her English and has provocative pics still on lap-top, he showed me! Allegedly they haven’t had sex since we got together 5 months ago, and he now sleeps in the spare bedroom as “it doesn’t feel right” Are you gullible enough to believe this ??? Mr. Lucky
quankanne Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 why would you ever consider waiting for someone who from the very first has told you that his marriage will ALWAYS come first? he can tell you every last thing you want to hear – that he loves you, that he wants to be with you but for moral reasons, can't leave his family, yadda yadda yadda. I think the real question here is how much longer are you going to waste your time on a dead-end relationship, especially one that HE isn't even interested in fighting for? you deserve better than that, and I think once you clear the "love and romance mists" from your head, you'll see that, too.
LavendarGirl Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 Hi Miss Swiss, First of all, let me say that I am so sorry that you are going through this. I know it must be breaking your heart. Reading your story, it's obvious that he's been consistent at least in saying that he will never leave his wife. I realize that you are completely tied up with him emotionally, and it is hard to see the writing on the wall sometimes when you have so much at stake. I understand that he's given you conflicting messages with his pipe dream stories (how many kids you'd have, changing surnames, etc). But he hasn't gotten beyond that, just wishful thinking (out loud). He's also not wanting to call it quits with you, not now at least, since he is probably thinking that if the Middle East doesn't pan out and he's able to spend more time with you, he wants to have you around. So, yes my vote is that he is stringing you along and that he never intends on leaving his marriage and family for you. It is too bad that he is deceiving his wife in order to keep his family intact. So, I feel for both you and the wife. You can of course continue a relationship with this man, but you will always be the OW and nothing more. If he does leave for the Middle East, you may be left in Switzerland wondering what to do and how to sever your ties with a man who you are in love with but is not emotionally or physically available to you. Sorry!! ((hug)) --LG.
frannie Posted January 12, 2009 Posted January 12, 2009 ... ...the relationship has been in trouble and divorce discussed for years, but 2 kids, now 9 and 7 to consider. ... They do normal couple stuff like visit friends family, trips etc.. and he says its all a front and they do have a troubled marriage. ...He’s made no promises that he will leave his wife, and even told me he does love her when I push for an answer. ... I get all the I love yous, and false hopes like how many kids we’d have, changing surnames etc.. confusing I’d say. ... I even made an offer that I would move back to the UK and we could live really really close so they could come at any time... he took it with a pinch of salt. Then when I pushed some more, came the new influence of you don’t understand.. I have my house, my family, my friends.. all will be lost if I choose you. ... basically cant see his wife and kids as two separate entities. ... So to me, that says he’s made a decision, right? Well, no. apparently he is yet to decide how selfish he will be by either choosing his own happiness or that of his kids.. he sees it as if he leaves the house, he has tuned his back on them. I sometimes offer to leave it as just an affair and see other people, someone I would hopefully settle with and end it that way, but “that’s not fair on you”. ... all I am told is to stop reading into things and not question his love for me. To trust him. When will he decide? How long would you give him? What will he decide? Should I wait around as I believe its worth perusing? Am I just another OW on this forum being taken advantage of, or an exception? You be the judge (an brutally honest pleae).. I’m going bananas here! Hello swissmiss. Just highlighting the things you've said above. He sounds like he likes to have more outside his marriage (e.g. the 'thing' with the Russian), but he isn't about to end it. He likes the set-up too much (whatever the reality of it is); he LIKES to 'go through the motions', with family, friends. He likes the way his W looks after his children. He has told you he loves her and I think that's really important. I think that he got into this with you and now, yes, there are emotions there, ones he perhaps didn't anticipate. But I think all that's done is give him a dilemma: he loves you, but he loves his life too. But the bottom line is that his marriage is just too convenient, and not 'bad' enough to end. Not at this stage. Things may deteriorate, and they may end up divorced years down the line. Then again they may not. And I think what he's doing is telling you what you need to hear so you'll stick around. He wants you in his life, but he's not going to be making any 'decisions'. He'll let you do that (end it), if you find it's too much for you. Otherwise, you knew the score when you went into it.
Athena Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 When will he decide? How long would you give him? What will he decide? Should I wait around as I believe its worth perusing? Am I just another OW on this forum being taken advantage of, or an exception? You be the judge (an brutally honest pleae).. I’m going bananas here! He will never decide... you will have to be the one to make this decision. He apparently is content with this set up -- he has the respectable husband/ father title, and has his fun/ passion/ excitement with you -- why would he settle for only one or the other, when right now he has both?! You will have to be the one to decide how long to put up with his scraps. So, you can give him an ultimatum of X months, but I bet he will choose his wife (family, kids, house, friends, relatives, history, etc) over you. The longer you leave this issue as it is, the more you will get involved with him. I have heard of an OW (intelligent, beautiful, brilliant) who has been involved with a MM for over a dozen years... he has had his wife, and children and she has never been married. Is that what you want for yourself? To be on the outskirts, just in case he actually changes his mind and chooses you? It's highly unlikely, and to be honest, from the 'excuses' he gives you, these are typical MM excuses.... I don't believe he ever intends on being with you and only you. So, you can give him an ultimatum, and of course he will come up with a million reasons and excuses why he cannot fulfill the time period, and if he is ingenious he can get you to extend the date over and over until you do exactly what he wants you to do. You are not going to have the life you want with him. He has the life HE wants -- wife and girlfriend, lol, you know he will just replace you when you drop him, right?
travelgirl Posted January 13, 2009 Posted January 13, 2009 the truth is i probably wouldnt trust him for a long time... and would test him just to be re-assured... doesnt help he travels abroad a few days a week, often for a week or more, so i guess my default is no. this is your own quote from the OW forum. You know your answer already. Stop wasting your time.
Deegee Posted January 19, 2009 Posted January 19, 2009 CAKE EATER comes to mind.....leave this man alone, I see nothing but heartache coming your way. You seem intelligent and articulate, make the right decision and don't give this man anymore of your time, he is poison. He's in a position in his life where you aren't even a consideration. I say give your time and attention to someone that's deserving of you, and someone that doesn't belong to someone else...(he was NEVER YOURS TO BEGIN WITH....) besides, why settle for someone's sloppy seconds?! Cut your losses NOW before you end up wasting more precious time (time you can't get back, by the way), and energy on a loser. Put yourself first, this man is not the end and be all....he is, after all, just a man. You know what you need to do, make the right choice. Good Luck!
NoIDidn't Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 If you don't want to be the OW, end it. That's all you'll be to him. What I don't understand is why anyone falls for the "spare bedroom" thing without ever being able to verify it? I know it happens. I have a friend who's husband did just that - but I can verify that and I'm not his OW. Anyway, my point was made first. He is not leaving his marriage. He's given you a ton of reasons that he plans to stay. Some of the posts have given unnecessary hope to you (his feelings), but his actions and words in this case state his case clearly. If his feelings about anyone mattered, he wouldn't be cheating on his W. And IMO, people that demand that you "trust" them repeatedly while doing nothing to quell the distrust, are generally NOT trustworthy.
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