Dating in a nutshell

[boxing123]

Well, her views were very old fashioned, which is why she was happy and compliant with the man she CHOSE to spend time with. She LOVED and pointed out the differences between men and women. She felt it was an important part of her life to have a man, so she put effort in to keep that man. This is in contrast to women running around saying how they love independence, but then also serial date like mad women.

 

It sounds simple, but that mindset goes a long way. Have you ever, or known many women who have cooked 3 times a day for a man they dated? And happily? Efficiently. No big deal, nothing asked in return? So, I wanted to make her happy.

 

I am telling you, some women are just IMPOSSIBLE to please. The same things they complained about with me, they would complain about with the men before, and after me. Still single, not more than a few 3 month relationships. What they offer is sex . They do nothing for men, but have sex, and want to be taken to fancy places, vacations etc

 

The woman I mentioned was widowed at the age of 28 , met me (I wanted to marry her), then she married someone else within a year of us breaking up. I know beautiful women that cannot get a 3rd date.

 

Dreamer, you twisted my words, or I was not clear.. I meant to say many beautiful women cannot land quality men because of their personality. Women that would be more beautiful than her.

 

Bow down to me? lol Where did I say that? If a woman wants a man to plan and lead (which most do) then dont complain about everything. If you want to lead, find a very submissive man.

[movingonandon]

Ok, I was actually irritated by the very first posts, but I must admit that I agree with most of the latest posts.

 

There is a huge difference between a "doormat" and a woman who is happy to follow in a relationship. This is not weakness, but precisely what gives a woman her strength in a relationship - guys want to come home to a mellow woman who puts the relationship as a priority; not to a spoiled princess busy evaluating if her expectations of her guy are high enough or should be kicked up a notch:lmao:. Only neurotic serial dating girls would refer to such women as "doormats". To men, they are just sane, stable women who are worth keeping and treating well . For men, the thing of fundamental importance in relationships is stability, and it takes particular (and increasingly rare) character traits to achieve it.

[boxing123]

Moving on, exactly.

 

So much stress is put on wanting the guy to pay for dates. Ok, I understand that. And yes, it was like that in the past. Men just want something tangible back. They used to get something back. Now it just seems like men are treated like wallets and entertainers by many women. So the man becomes less generous, and more resentful, which leads to the female becoming more dissatisfied.

 

And women, if you could be the more "submissive, following, easy going" type, you get all of what you put in back ten fold. That is what men need. That is the woman they will keep and do anything for. If you take sex out of the equation, and can think of a friend you have, would you like one that helps you, contributes, and does thing you cannot? Or just sit backs and takes?

 

It is amazing to me how many women date men, and pick at everything. His clothes, where they go, how he acts, what he says, how he plans, etc. If you want to plan, and need things perfect, then do the planning, and find a man whom is the type to follow you. Or relinquish some control, sit back, and enjoy yourself. If he suggests something, then agree with a smile,(unless of course it is ridiculous).

[MichelleS1983]

UHHH.. During the great depression few people had jobs. Perhaps you are confusing this with ww2. Women then did work in factories that men built, with machines men invented, with a process of manufacturing also developed by men. Of course, the men then went to die, and get their arms and legs blown off.

BFD. It was primarily MEN running the world that CREATED the war that blew off their own arms and legs, so I would imagine it was only right that it was MEN who went to war.

 

You can't suck and blow at the same time.

[D-Jam]

First of all, for many dating is a waste of time. What is the point to meet others if you are not ready for commitment, or if you have fairy tale expectations of what you deserve?

I agree with you here. If you're not in it for everything...then don't waste your time or their time.

 

Secondly, there are many threads on "Whom pays", etc.

That's why I stick to the etiquette of a gentleman...no having to worry about this.

 

Since the beginning of time, and still today men have built EVERYTHING. Every brick laid, tunnel dug, road built, energy source taken from the Earth, etc. Nearly every single invention is due to the male. Males are doers, and creators.

 

What were women doing? Trying to find one of those men to take care of them, look pretty, and have babies.

I also thought they cooked, cleaned, and raised our children.

 

Even today, there are a hundreds of popular magazines women buy that talk all about how to look pretty, new hairdos, make up, wedding dresses, how to be better in bed, etc.

Not to take the other side totally...but what happens when they get fat, dress like slobs, chop their hair into soccer mom cuts, etc? We men turn away and look for that hottie who dresses great, is fun, and looks feminine.

 

Plus how many men would want the woman who will put out after a few dates...as opposed to one who wants to wait til marriage? Worse if she says sex scares her and thus now you worry she might not ever want to have sex.

 

Since girls are 5, they talk about marriage.

Blame the toymakers. They make plenty of princess toys, child bride dresses, and baby dolls for them to get those ideas into their heads. Tell them to make girls toys that push them to hold off on it all and then become powerful leaders in the world.

 

Unfortunately then, other guys complain that women don't "know their role", or worse complain on how feminism makes things harder for men to get laid.

 

Women are much different then men.

I agree with you here.

 

No matter how much they try to act like "equals", they want to be taken care of, and landing a man is of the utmost importance. Hair, make up, nails, push up bras, bikini waxes, clothing, heels, etc. Look good to land a man is what their time is largely focused on, consciously, or subconsciously.

Again...look at society. No matter how much feminism pushed women to be their own people, there are still magazines, TV shows, and relatives who seemingly push women to think they are losers if they have no man and aren't married to a provider by their 30s.

 

Only way things change in my book is when women are totally pushed to become like men. To become self-sufficient and be their own people. Unfortunately then, tons of guys will be complaining how they can't get any.

 

That is why women are so turned off if a man does not want to pay. Their entire fantasy life is built around men taking care of them. Paying is symbolic of that.

Again...conduct of a gentleman says you as a man pay for the first few dates. If she never offers money, then you see she's not right for you.

 

As far as I'm concerned, if men don't want to pay for the first few dates, then they shouldn't bother dating at all. A good woman will offer money and even at times take you out and pay for you. Stop worrying about the first 3-5 dates and instead focus on seeing if she's a good woman or not.

[D-Jam]

Seems more of a chess game to me. Making the next calculating move. Very stressful on my end. Not trying to overstep my bounds. They make it seem so easy in the movies. Women do many things important things, Probably the most important thing is giving birth. You would not be here Einstein without a WOMAN. What about the medical sciences, nurses, teachers.. You are really one sided man.

I think you need to not stress then about it. Seriously.

 

I may be in a RL now, but I will tell you that before that, I had been so burned out on the "game" that dating has become, burned out on seeing women who keep claiming they want a good man but they keep dating bad ones, burned out on it all that I stepped away.

 

I made my life about ME and made myself happy in life. I really just walked around and didn't care if I ever found Ms Right or not. Seen some who thought it was childish or "giving up", but I more felt dating had become such a miserable thing for me that I wanted to back off and not be miserable anymore. I just saw the world now as I didn't need someone to make my life worth living.

 

Even now I've only been dating this girl for nearly 6 months...but yet friends (mostly female) are asking when I'm going to pop the question, start a family, etc. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Their words say to me how much they prioritize their lives around "having someone" and thus in their mindsets think I should make this RL the top priority over everything.

 

You need to not make it a high priority. Be good to the women who date you, but don't sit there making "finding someone" a big priority. You will be a lot happier in the long run.

 

 

39388...I really don't know your deal in detail...but if you're 35 and never managed to score a date, then maybe you should seriously try a dating coach. Obviously what you're doing isn't helping...so you need to try something else.

[IrishCarBomb]

It was primarily MEN running the world that CREATED the war that blew off their own arms and legs, so I would imagine it was only right that it was MEN who went to war.

 

Sorry. As a man, I apologzie for World War II. My bad.

[OneTwo]

.... Hair, make up, nails, push up bras, bikini waxes, clothing, heels, etc. Look good to land a man is what their time is largely focused on, consciously, or subconsciously.

That is why women are so turned off if a man does not want to pay. Their entire fantasy life is built around men taking care of them. Paying is symbolic of that.

 

Ah, the hair, the make up, the nails, the push-up bras.....

 

This thread makes me realize why I like women so much -- their beautiful hair, smooth skin, clean smell, wicked sexy eys. And when they wear the push up bra so that I will notice them, it really drives me crazy.

 

However, because of our role differences in society, I can impress her with chivalry by opening doors (that for me are very easy to open, but for her might be a bit of a struggle because she is, after all, very petit) or by simply paying for the dinner. I get to plan how I am going to impress her by picking restaurants where I know the chef and will get special treatment. I get to maintain control throughout the date while she only gets to be reactionary.

 

Don't get me wrong, I am judging her just as much as she is judging me (after all, we both want the same thing: to determine if we are compatible), but it's just that I am holding more of the cards and I am dealing each hand (i.e., I get to plan the date). If my game is good, she will want to go out on another date. The excitement is surreal. She is trying to determine if I am a good guy, have a good heart, might make a reasonably stable mate, provider, protector. My veins are coursing with adrenaline from the thoughts of what she is wearing and the subtle hint of perfume that I occasionally get a whiff of when I stealthily get uncomfortably close to her (purposely lean over closely to lock her car door, etc. I think I am so sly...). My thoughts are not pure, I want to rip her clothes off right now -- I am male, I cannot help this. It almost doesn’t seem fair that the guy gets to call all the shots. I mean, these poor women don’t have a chance.

 

She knows all of this and finds it mildly amusing. She reverses my advantage by throwing small curves into the plan: she requests we sit somewhere else at the restaurant – I oblige. She asks if we can stop by the ATM machine while on our way to the restaurant. I know the game all to well and will not relinquish control. I tell her not to worry about stopping by the ATM, that I came prepared. I tell her that if she wants, we can stop by the ATM after dinner. She looks away. I smile to myself. During dinner, she is very inquisitive about me. She asks what types of things I like to do, gets me talking about sports teams, asks about my family, etc. I suddenly realize that she is well skilled in relationship building and is getting me to talk about myself so that I will feel that we had a real connection. I have fallen into her trap. I discover this about mid-dinner and turn the tables. I explain that I would really rather hear about her. She blushes mildly. I get her to tell me about herself, her dreams and aspirations, her desires, and some of her inner most fears. I cannot stop thinking about her dress, how it hugs her form perfectly.

 

At the end of the date, I drop her off at her home, walk her to the doorstep, and kiss her goodnight. We both agree that we should go out again, and she says she will allow me to call her. I walk back to my car floating on air, completely high from the experience – I have cannot remember a time when I was more attracted to a woman.

 

This happened over 5 years ago. I am now married to that woman and will never forget how she makes me feel.

[boxing123]

Djam, you are using the vague "gentleman" theory, of why men pay. I was trying to go deeper. Paying does not make someone a gentleman. Men throw around hundreds and thousands of dollars at strip joints. They might be loose with money and pay for every woman. They might be desperate. They might be dumb and charge everything, then declare bancruptcy.The 2 are not equal.

 

I am saying, no matter how much a woman makes, she still wants a man to pay because it is symbolic of someone whom can take care of her. Or is willing too. Women seek comfort and security above many other things. Paying is a small indicator he might be one of those guys that would be willing.

 

So no matter how "independent" women are pushed to be, they still come back to NEEDING and YEARNING to be taken care of. Or else you would see professional high earning women marrying the cute guy with no job, and paying for men willingly on first dates without a second thought.

[Tomcat33]

Djam, you are using the vague "gentleman" theory, of why men pay. I was trying to go deeper. Paying does not make someone a gentleman. Men throw around hundreds and thousands of dollars at strip joints.

 

 

He is not talking about THROWING money away in rippers, prostitutes or any vices, he is talking about spending money on a decent woman. Can you NOT make a distinction between the two? Perhaps that is where the problem lies.

 

And please answer Djam's question about what happens when she gets fat and cuts her hair off to become a soccer mom? I would be VERY interested in seeing where you stand on that as a MAN. Because in old fashion days women didn't work out, women didn't have to worry about looking overly sexual or even youthful as wives they just had to play good submissive roles of nurturers that catered to their men and children and they were supposed to be made to feel like shiiit when they stopped looking attractive and had sex/affection withheld from them while the men ran around having younger more attractive career women on the side, you know the old "doing his secretary" gig?

[boxing123]

Tomcat, women back in the day were not fat slobs either. They COOKED, and ate HEALTHILY. Yes,they cooked good food every day.They were not obese scarfing down McDonald's everyday. Men didn't need wives to look HOT and all painted up to go to work and flirt with coworkers.

 

Since many single women cannot contribute many "womanly" things these days, and do not want to pay either, what are men paying for? Oh, just sex. or maybe your wonderful, stimulating, interesting, amazing conversation he cannot get enough of?

 

Not all women universally DESERVE to be paid for, simply for having a vagina. Very few do desrve to be paid for. Funny how universally ALL seem to expect it.

[movingonandon]

 

How do you figure beautiful women can not land a great man?

 

 

Maybe they can, maybe not. The point is that when it comes to relationships, most sane guys will pick a plain looking girl with good character over a hot mess every time. Or even if she's not a mess, many "10's" come with a sense of entitlement that men will tolerate to get laid a couple of times, but never in a long term relationship.

[dreamergrl]

Tomcat, women back in the day were not fat slobs either. They COOKED, and ate HEALTHILY. Yes,they cooked good food every day.They were not obese scarfing down McDonald's everyday. Men didn't need wives to look HOT and all painted up to go to work and flirt with coworkers.

 

Just because a girl is hot or beautiful, does not mean they are all painted up and flirting with co-workers. Again, you sound like you've had some bad experiences and are making stereotype comments based off of them.

 

Since many single women cannot contribute many "womanly" things these days, and do not want to pay either, what are men paying for? Oh, just sex. or maybe your wonderful, stimulating, interesting, amazing conversation he cannot get enough of?

 

Why can't a single woman contribute "womanly" things these days? Look at single moms, they have to contribute womanly things on a daily basis, and also pay the bills.

 

Also, are you trying to imply that women aren't capable of providing great conversation?

 

Not all women universally DESERVE to be paid for, simply for having a vagina. Very few do desrve to be paid for. Funny how universally ALL seem to expect it.

 

That's your choice, it doesn't have to be the choice of others.

 

 

 

Maybe they can, maybe not. The point is that when it comes to relationships, most sane guys will pick a plain looking girl with good character over a hot mess every time. Or even if she's not a mess, many "10's" come with a sense of entitlement that men will tolerate to get laid a couple of times, but never in a long term relationship.

 

Just because a girl isn't plain, doesn't make her a 'hot mess'. I know plenty of very beautiful girls who don't claim any entitlement. Some are in great long term relationships, other are married. This is just another remark that I believe comes from a bad experience.

[serial muse]

First of all, for many dating is a waste of time. What is the point to meet others if you are not ready for commitment, or if you have fairy tale expectations of what you deserve?

 

Secondly, there are many threads on "Whom pays", etc.

 

Since the beginning of time, and still today men have built EVERYTHING. Every brick laid, tunnel dug, road built, energy source taken from the Earth, etc. Nearly every single invention is due to the male. Males are doers, and creators.

 

What were women doing? Trying to find one of those men to take care of them, look pretty, and have babies.

 

Even today, there are a hundreds of popular magazines women buy that talk all about how to look pretty, new hairdos, make up, wedding dresses, how to be better in bed, etc. Since girls are 5, they talk about marriage.

 

What does the above illustrate? Women are much different then men. No matter how much they try to act like "equals", they want to be taken care of, and landing a man is of the utmost importance. Hair, make up, nails, push up bras, bikini waxes, clothing, heels, etc. Look good to land a man is what their time is largely focused on, consciously, or subconsciously.

 

That is why women are so turned off if a man does not want to pay. Their entire fantasy life is built around men taking care of them. Paying is symbolic of that.

 

 

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

I'm just kind of sad that other men are reading this thread and responding with, "I totally disagree!...except that he has some points."

 

I'm sorry that you guys believe this. What a bleak world it is on LS sometimes.

 

But regardless, I'll take my PhD and my both creative and intellectually demanding job that I love and I'll be proud of what I've accomplished and worked for, I'll keep going to work each day, keep using my vote, keep trading dinners with my BF, keep conducting my life in ways that this inaccurate post doesn't even begin to describe - in short, keep acting like an individual who believes there is more to love and life and personal growth and yes, being a woman, than this self-serving ugliness of a post would allow. Basically, I'll keep on keepin' on, and I'll continue to hope that not only women but also men will find your post abhorrent, even if they don't say so.

 

Good luck with your life; we live in very different worlds.

[mr.dream merchant]

Thank you for your thoughts.

 

I'm just kind of sad that other men are reading this thread and responding with, "I totally disagree!...except that he has some points."

 

I'm sorry that you guys believe this. What a bleak world it is on LS sometimes.

 

But regardless, I'll take my PhD and my both creative and intellectually demanding job that I love and I'll be proud of what I've accomplished and worked for, I'll keep going to work each day, keep using my vote, keep trading dinners with my BF, keep conducting my life in ways that this inaccurate post doesn't even begin to describe - in short, keep acting like an individual who believes there is more to love and life and personal growth and yes, being a woman, than this self-serving ugliness of a post would allow. Basically, I'll keep on keepin' on, and I'll continue to hope that not only women but also men will find your post abhorrent, even if they don't say so.

 

Good luck with your life; we live in very different worlds.

 

There is some fact as well as some fiction to his post, regardless of how you feel.

[serial muse]

There is some fact as well as some fiction to his post, regardless of how you feel.

 

If it's about feelings, then let's keep it on that plane. These are his feelings, too - not fact. Can't have it both ways.

 

It's not fact, regardless of what you feel.

[OneTwo]

I think it is a rarity to find a hot chick that has it all together, is able to produce any meaningful income, is a good mother, and doesn't get fat and complacent with age, and doesn't feel entitled to having a man pay for everything.

 

But, just about the exact same thing can be said about men: how many women have found a guy that is interested in the woman for more than sex, has a good job, is in great shape and good looking, has a normal balance between being a strong secure male and still has emotions, will do his fair share of the house work, and doesn't have anger issues about his small penis?

 

Awesome chicks are about as rare as awesome dudes.

 

So chicks feel they are entitled to being payed for, and men think they are entitled to non-commital sex. It's just the way it is. Learn the game, master it, and enjoy it.