My indecision is making me deeply unhappy :(

[IWant2BHappyAgain]

After being married for four years, my Wife started an affair with a work colleague who had been systematically befriending her. After discovery of the affair she didn’t confess and lied to me for two painful weeks. I had never seen her lie before, her excuses were pathetic and she was cold, bordering cruel with me. I guess I was hard to live with as I knew something was going on but didn’t know how far it had gone. I finally found out for sure by reading her text messages: I knew she was having sex with him, planning to leave and apparently loved him... it was just a matter of telling me. With this knowledge I went to see a lawyer and subsequently froze all our joint savings accounts. I told her I now knew for sure and she believed me, she then packed some belongings and left to be with him.

 

I was absolutely devastated but one month later I was starting to come to terms with the situation and actually enjoying being single. Then, however, I had a call from my wife explaining how when she left it didn’t feel right and she realised she had made a huge mistake and wanted to come back. She seemed really upset so I agreed to meet her (with no intensions of reconciling). I had never really seen her cry before, but when I said I didn’t want her back she was extremely upset and went to the medicine cabinet to grab pills for a suicide attempt. I obviously didn’t let her and calmed her down before sending her away to live with a friend. I was worried about her state of mind and I didn’t know what to do about the situation so I went to see a relationship councillor / psychologist for help.

 

I explained the situation on my own to the psychologist and somehow over the next few weeks got drawn into having counselling sessions with my wife. During the sessions we discovered that there was a communication problem between us before that probably led to her having the affair. The problem was fixable then, but things are different after an affair.

 

During this period, I started seeing my wife a couple of time a week and we got on as friends (neither of us have many other friends as we had recently immigrated to Australia). The relationship councillor said we both needed to be 100% committed if we were to live together again. She was 100%, but I was undecided (say about 20% committed). I thought of our marriage as a beautiful crystal vase, ok it had some cracks, but it was beautiful. The affair happened and the vase was smashed. I had made up my mind that we could rebuild the vase but it would never look the same again. I can forgive, but not forget.

 

I wanted to tell my wife I just wanted to stay friends, but I couldn’t do it just before Christmas and New Year. We spent more time together over the holidays (remember neither of us have family over here, nor do we have many friends).

 

I told her in a nice as way as possible on New Year’s day that I just wanted to be friends. She then cried and said well I can’t go on and see you anymore. Now we don’t see each other I actually miss her, I know she did a terrible thing, but she’s shown remorse and says she’s learnt her lesson. I can see how she was led into the affair, she is 10 years younger than me and although a grown woman she is still immature and easily led. My resolve to try again has actually gone up to 60% since not seeing her, but I’m still not sure if that’s enough. The problem is if she moves back I may get stuck in an unhappy relationship and find it near on impossible to extract myself out of it.

 

My own indecision is killing me and I’m really unhappy. I find it hard to sleep and my concentration has dropped at work. Will it end if we just have another go at living together or should I ride out the feelings of loss and indecisiveness – will they go? I know no one can decide but me, but it may help me decide if I know what you think.

 

PS: I didn’t mention my wife still works with the man she had an affair with. There is a restraining order on him not to talk to her, but I know from phone bills she still texts him quite regularly out of work. She says that it’s because he is suicidal about her leaving him, but for all I know something may still be going on. Do I let him win her back or let him have her.....what a mess!!!!

[atwitsend]

She is still texting him? She is leading him on in case it dose not work with you. You were happy after a month away from her. Wait a month and then see how you feel. He's suicidal after her leaving him. The fact is that she had an affair with this guy and lied. Is she lying now. Apparently she has one friend in Australia. She left you, had her cake and then wanted to come back when she realized she loved you more them him. And yet they still communicate. Dump her.

[Reggie]

First off , if she is still texting him , she is still in the affair. There can be no reconcilliation until she quits the affair.

As for getting back together, I think you are correct. It will never be the same. So, you should take a good long time in making a decision on this. Perhaps your counselor can help you explore your ability to tolerate what lies ahead.

Frankly, despit much of the propoganda from websites promoting thier affair repairing services for a fee, the real stats on reconciliation after infidelity are not promising. A samll percentage of marriages survive and , of those, many limp along for the duration. It is just a tremendous trauma from which to recover and trust is never the same.

No rush on this. Tell your wife you need time to decide. If she istruly remorseful and has an appreciation for the gravity of her abuse(and, it is widely considered the most severe form of emotional, spousal abuse), she will give you all the time you need and not pressure you.

[atwitsend]

Reggie is right as usual. You have to be an exceptional person to forgive. Couples that stay together for 50 year, when they get in a fight. They will throw the affair in the others face every time. Even if it happened decades ago. So can you live with that possibility?

[mark982]

don't make no rash decisions. just step back for awhile.it takes 1 hell of a man to forgive for cheating.

[wuggle]

Whilst I agree with some bits of AWE and Reggie's advice I dont agree with it all. I know you can rebuild a life with a partner who had an affair, I know you can learn to trust again, and I know you can be happy.

 

When an affair happens things get so messed up it really can be difficult for BOTH sides to know what is going on. You say you split, she said she made a mistake, you started to get back together but you couldn't commit so you split again. I do not doubt that she may be texting the other bloke again, she probably feels totally isolated and realising you don't want her back she may be trying to get the second prize rather than being on her own, sounds like she is messed up emotionally big time as well.

 

My advice, take things back to thier simplest and build from there. You loved her when you got married right ? , sit down and think, if she hadn't had an affair would you still love her ? , ok if the answer is yes you say you have already identified that in counselling that there were issues in the marriage that may have led to this and you may BOTH have been to blame for those. So it really is quite simple (bloody hard but simple) - she messed up bigtime, she made a mistake, she looked elsewhere for comfort\sex whatever, she betrayed you. Did\Do you love her enough to forgive her ? simple. If you can I honestly believe you can rebuild your marriage and have a wonderful life (it may be bloody difficult with no gaurentee of success). If there is no way you can possibly forgive her then stay split but remember next time you have a partner just how impossible you found to forgive this and make sure you don't do it to someone else.

 

Chances are these days, that if it wasn't her that messed up it would have been you. Marriages are under so much strain these days they very rarely go unchallenged. Marriages can and do recover from this sort of thing all the time.

 

End of the day, put all the crap aside, look yourself in the mirror and ask yourself do you love her. Be totally honest to yourself, no-one else. If you don't that's ok, sometimes people cant get over this. If you do still love her, you can forgive her and get over this and have a great life with her, it will be tough but it can be done.

 

Where do you want to be in 10 years time, remember you only really have to answer to yourself, what will make you happy. Take time to think, don't rush either way, try to stay calm and look after yourself.

[Reggie]

I think a lot depends on how you really felt about her before the A. It's hard to understand how someone that really loved you could do this to you. If she can bring you to an adequate understanding of how she was capable of this and can get the help she needs to fix what is broken within her, maybe it can work.

What steps has she taken to get therapy? She should be actively looking to get to the bottom of her problems if she wants to reconcile. Texting this guy is not good evidence of a desire to change.

[jwi71]

OP-

 

Your M will not recover until the A ends - and it hasn't. The only way the A ends is for her to 1) quit her job and 2) go NC (No contact).

 

She has done neither. Not only does she still communicate with him at the office, she secretly communicates with him outside the office. The affair is NOT over - how can it be when they still routinely and secretly communicate?

 

Your wife is in lala land - referred to here as "Affair fog". It clouds her vision, her thinking, distorts history...its brutal. The only way to clear the fog is to end the A and time. You have a choice.

 

1) Fight for your M. You confiscate her phone. You cancel your cell contract. You demand she resigns. You take away her access to the internet unless YOU are present. You demand her email passwords. You demand 100% honesty. Go to MC.

Tell the highest level boss at their company of the A and that you expect him/her to end the sexual harassment of your W. Provided the boss doesn't have a heart attack at that, I promise compliance. Especially if they are using company time for non-official use (like an A). BTDT. It works. And its great to see the OM squirm.

 

2) Let her go. Pack her things, wish her well and send her on her way. She has a place to go - his. File for D, go to a therpaist and begin to heal. You go NC with her - not to play some game but for YOU to heal. The last time you answered the phone she can back AND continued her A.

 

If you want the M to work - fight. And its a fight, trust me. Its almost impossible for the spouse to compete with a lover. That affair makes the lover seem perfect - but all R's start like that - everyone is great in the beginning...then reality sets in. Reality hasn't hit your W yet and until it does, her lover will ALWAYS "beat" you.

 

Demand her phone, demand her resignation, demand that her life is fully transparent until YOU deem otherwise.

 

If you need to time think on your. Ok...send her packing and think. Agree to go NC for 30 days so you each can re-evaluate. Oh, I know what you are thinking..."I go home and she keeps screwing him". Then you have your answer don't you.

 

And if you are wondering...it CAN be beaten. My W thought it would be great to screw her boss on our daughter's birthday. It took 6 months(!!) for her to finally see what happened, what she did and what she lost. For me, it was 6 months of hell on Earth. But, I wanted to try and in those 6 months she took enough small steps to keep me engaged. And now, glad I fought for US.

[IWant2BHappyAgain]

Thanks for all your input, this forum is great. I like the comment “Where do I want to be in 10 years” and I guess I have two scenarios: -

 

1. Happy that I reconciled with my wife

2. Happy that I didn’t reconcile and in a new happier relationship

 

Problem is there are so many risks and variables to get to each scenario it’s near upon impossible to decide right now. I don’t want to be the person that made the wrong choice and either regrets splitting or regrets not reconciling (I’m not getting any younger and I really want kids before I’m too old). I think I do need more time apart and counselling to reach my decision as atwitsend said. I think I’m also currently being clouded by feelings of guilt and worry about my wife’s talk of suicide. When she left, it was her decision to go (and she did it in a micro-second). This time it’s my decision to stay separated and that makes me feel guilty. She said to me once that she had written a suicide note ... what happens if she did commit suicide? I know it wouldn’t be fault directly (she made her own decision) but it would psychological traumatise me even more if she did! She is essentially a really nice person and we were happy together, told hardly any lies to each other and hardly argued. We had everything we had dreamed of in Australia then the fog came (as jwi71 said). The betrayal, the lies, the deceit, etc. There are so many stories like mine here, why do certain people risk losing everything wnen they are essentially good people and have everything going for them? It’s good to know I’m not alone trying to work this out!

[Reggie]

Take your sweet time.

How much do you know about your wife's past? I mean , have you ever really investigated it? This behavior, the lying and cheating, is , many times, not an isolated incident. Does she have any history of cheating on others or has she been an OW in the past?

I found that my XW had a pattern of this type of behavior.

It makes a difference in assessing who you are dealing with.

[IWant2BHappyAgain]

Sadly there is another incident of significant relevance; I guess you call it an emotional affair. Not long after being married and planning our Australia emigration I found emails being sent from my wife to her friend about her emotional feelings for a close freind of mine. She never followed up on her feelings and (as such) I was upset but managed to forgive her. I guess with hindsight that was a big warning sign. I went on with the emigration as I thought 12,000miles should put enough distance between her and my close freind – a fresh start. Who knows what she’s been secretly thinking during our time together (even though we got on so well). However, she has suffered greatly over the past three months and says she has learnt her lesson.

 

Thinking about it she was also in a casual relationship as she met me ... before that I'm not so sure.

 

She has had a bit of sad upbringing too. Her father left at an early age (now deceased) and she was bullied at school. Overall she is a very negative person with little self confidence. However, I fell in love with her good qualities and thought I could make her happy ... and I did. Her Mother said to me she had never seen her so happy since she met me.

 

I think another reason against getting back together is kids. I want them and I want them to have parents in a happy and stable relationship. My wife and I had two pet cats and she couldn’t cope with them – I had to give them away in the end to my parents. She also freezes up around kids and doesn’t know what to say or do with them. My relationship councillor said that this isn’t uncommon and the maternal instinct will kick in. But that was my secret worry about her before all this happened.

[desertmoon]

Sadly there is another incident of significant relevance; I guess you call it an emotional affair. Not long after being married and planning our Australia emigration I found emails being sent from my wife to her friend about her emotional feelings for a close freind of mine. She never followed up on her feelings and (as such) I was upset but managed to forgive her. I guess with hindsight that was a big warning sign. I went on with the emigration as I thought 12,000miles should put enough distance between her and my close freind – a fresh start. Who knows what she’s been secretly thinking during our time together (even though we got on so well). However, she has suffered greatly over the past three months and says she has learnt her lesson.

 

Thinking about it she was also in a casual relationship as she met me ... before that I'm not so sure.

 

She has had a bit of sad upbringing too. Her father left at an early age (now deceased) and she was bullied at school. Overall she is a very negative person with little self confidence. However, I fell in love with her good qualities and thought I could make her happy ... and I did. Her Mother said to me she had never seen her so happy since she met me.

 

I think another reason against getting back together is kids. I want them and I want them to have parents in a happy and stable relationship. My wife and I had two pet cats and she couldn’t cope with them – I had to give them away in the end to my parents. She also freezes up around kids and doesn’t know what to say or do with them. My relationship councillor said that this isn’t uncommon and the maternal instinct will kick in. But that was my secret worry about her before all this happened.

 

It is ok not to do anything....just to sit still (so to speak) and not make decisions....so, sit still, take your time, take deep breaths and take care of your health.

 

about your wife: Many women who grew up with irresponsible, unloving, disrespectful men, do not know how to live with or deal with men who are the opposite. This is the reason why, many women who grew up in chaos, seek chaos, even if they have a chance of living in calm--it's the only life they know. So until your wife makes peace with her past and/or learn that not all men leave...I think she will always have a "spare" man hanging around, just in case....It's a defense mechanism. It doesn't make it right, it just is.

 

So she is threatening suicide, chances are, she won't do it....why? people who really want to die, do not announce it--they just do it. However, of those who have threatened suicide many have ATTEMPTED (and hurt themselves, in the process) because they knew that help will be there--not one really wanted to die but all needed help. So, if you believe her, you are miserable, if you don't..she might hurt herself, just to show you she meant it.....I say....her life is her responsibility and tell her that if she kills herself, you will mourn her deeply....

[anne1707]

As Desertmoon has said, your wife's childhood may well be resulting in some of her actions now. Plus with what you refer to about her feelings for a friend of yours prior to moving to Australia and with what has happened since makes me wonder - how happy was she with the move, did she really want to do it, could she have been panicking (and then reacted very badly by emotionally connecting with other people).

 

However these are things that could be dealt with in counselling. Your wife possibly needs individual counselling as well as she is obviously very troubled.

 

Do not give up on her yet but make sure whatever you do is right for you.

[IWant2BHappyAgain]

Thanks Anne1707 and DesertMoon! I’ve been thinking about what desertmoon said and it makes sense. From what I heard of her absent father, he wasn’t very pleasant and her mother never remarried or had male friends. I think her mother was very bitter towards men as ironically she had to deal with infidelity. I knew my wife was troubled when we first met, in fact a friend warned me away from her. I also found a scribbled note that said “I hate life!” in her room when I first went to visit her. Love is blind though and I thought I could make her happy and as I’ve said before I did, but I guess she was a time-bomb and was going to seek chaos at some point.

 

Also Desertmoon is right about needing a "spare" man hanging around; from what I know, she has nearly always had a boyfriend since leaving school. I think that also explains why she wants to stay in touch with the OM, but I’m pretty certain I’m the one she wants now. Now that we’re not communicating I guess she could be seeing him (I just don’t know), but to be honest if she called me and said I’m seeing someone else at least that’s the decision made for me.

 

I also got thinking about the 3 victims of affairs that I know – all of them were really nice people (a bit like me LOL).

 

I haven’t quite given up on her yet, but as Anne1707 says she will need counselling to sort out her own issues if we did.

[atwitsend]

She is broken, I am sorry but she is a serial cheating drama queen. After reading your other posts. This woman will NEVER stop. She is heartless. First she screws some other guy and goes and shacks for a month. And then after the sex gets boring (and that is what happened) she wants to come back to home base where she knows she is loved, and then wait till the next guy comes along that she gets hot for, before screwing him behind your back. You have given her chance after chance. Why in the world would you think of chaining yourself to her? And believe me, when you have kids with someone you are most definitely chaining yourself to them. She is ultra manipulative and will "eat your heart". Remember how she left you to be with this guy she was screwing. Do you know why else she wants to come back. I will wager the guy cheated on her. And she didn't like how that side of the bed feels. She would much rather be the one doing the cheating then the one being cheated on. Here is my advice. Slowly start limiting the amount of time and phone calls you have with her.

When she talks to you about getting back together, tell her that you know by HER actions (cheating twice, and who knows how many ONS) that you cannot make her happy. She will not commit suicide. When you don't rush in to save her. She will move on to find someone else she can cheat on and accept it. The other option is to go and get a vasectomy and forget having children, because she will cheat again. And then you will divorce her and have a child. Then for the next 18 years you will watch her cheat with the other guys she sees or marries. You need to protect your heart or you will be the one thinking of ending it all (just kidding).

[anne1707]

I stand by what I say. She can change. It is possible through a lot of effort (and heartache at times) plus a real commitment to make it work. Counselling is essential. You both need to do this for it to work.

[wuggle]

She is broken, I am sorry but she is a serial cheating drama queen. After reading your other posts. This woman will NEVER stop. She is heartless. First she screws some other guy and goes and shacks for a month. And then after the sex gets boring (and that is what happened) she wants to come back to home base where she knows she is loved, and then wait till the next guy comes along that she gets hot for, before screwing him behind your back. You have given her chance after chance. Why in the world would you think of chaining yourself to her? And believe me, when you have kids with someone you are most definitely chaining yourself to them. She is ultra manipulative and will "eat your heart". Remember how she left you to be with this guy she was screwing. Do you know why else she wants to come back. I will wager the guy cheated on her. And she didn't like how that side of the bed feels. She would much rather be the one doing the cheating then the one being cheated on. Here is my advice. Slowly start limiting the amount of time and phone calls you have with her.

When she talks to you about getting back together, tell her that you know by HER actions (cheating twice, and who knows how many ONS) that you cannot make her happy. She will not commit suicide. When you don't rush in to save her. She will move on to find someone else she can cheat on and accept it. The other option is to go and get a vasectomy and forget having children, because she will cheat again. And then you will divorce her and have a child. Then for the next 18 years you will watch her cheat with the other guys she sees or marries. You need to protect your heart or you will be the one thinking of ending it all (just kidding).

 

Sorry, disagree almost totally. Deeply manipulative ? eat your heart ? Messed up a bit (like the rest of us), scared, problems with past - probably.

[Reggie]

Again, there is no rush on this. But, one thing to really, really keep in mind is that once kids are on the scene, getting out becomes much more complicated and one suffers from the effects of this much longer. There are, of course, the financial obligations with at least an 18 year tail. And, just having to see and deal with a cheater for that length of time is tough.

Would she agree to an evaluation by a therapist, one versed in dealing with personality disorders. She has cheated twice in you relativelyyoung marriage and she comes from the type of background that is standard for the disordered. The suicide threats are also a sign of a disorder.

If she has BPD, you are in for a tough time dealing with her. It is very resistant to treatment and BPD's do put you through hell.

Start reading on BPD. www.bpdfamily.com is a good place to start. Infidelity is rampant among the disordered.

[Untouchable_Fire]

I think another reason against getting back together is kids. I want them and I want them to have parents in a happy and stable relationship. My wife and I had two pet cats and she couldn’t cope with them – I had to give them away in the end to my parents. She also freezes up around kids and doesn’t know what to say or do with them. My relationship councillor said that this isn’t uncommon and the maternal instinct will kick in. But that was my secret worry about her before all this happened.

 

Two things.

 

First the suicide talk is a simple manipulation. She is trying to take advantage of your nature. It's sick and twisted.

 

Second, if she sucks around kids now... she will later as well. Unless she is very young.

 

As I read your description of who she is and how she acts... I am amazed your still thinking about taking her back. Do you have co-dependent tendencies?

[anne1707]

She also freezes up around kids and doesn’t know what to say or do with them. My relationship councillor said that this isn’t uncommon and the maternal instinct will kick in. But that was my secret worry about her before all this happened.

 

I am not naturally comfortable with children but I did want children (unfortunately without success). So it may be that she is not the most obviously maternal woman but may genuinely want children at some stage.

 

However you can only have children if your marriage is rock solid first. Concentrate on this first.

[pelicanpreacher]

Let me get this straight ... you looked deep enough into her past and psyche to see all the problems she encompassed eyes wide open yet still clambered up the rock cliff to dive into her shining pool? I think you're just as dysfunctional as she is for you are fool tilting at windmills! Somehow you've got it in your mind that you are the world's savior so you sought out a broken woman and picked up 2 stray cats and strove forth to start your way in the world. As soon as she gets off the therapist's couch immediately take her place for at least she's warmed a spot for you.

 

You sir have problems!!!

[desertmoon]

Let me get this straight ... you looked deep enough into her past and psyche to see all the problems she encompassed eyes wide open yet still clambered up the rock cliff to dive into her shining pool? I think you're just as dysfunctional as she is for you are fool tilting at windmills! Somehow you've got it in your mind that you are the world's savior so you sought out a broken woman and picked up 2 stray cats and strove forth to start your way in the world. As soon as she gets off the therapist's couch immediately take her place for at least she's warmed a spot for you.

 

You sir have problems!!!

 

 

Ahhh....yes, he is the epitome of someone who has a "Messianic Complex". You do not start a relationship because you think you can SAVE her. And while it is very romantic to be someone's knight in shining armour, you probably did not plan to be "saving" her for the rest of your life or did you? I think at some point you hoped that she would come around and you can rest and stop "annihilating" her demons, right? Well, the problem is, until SHE she makes peace with her past, you are going to be dealing with these issues. The question is, are you willing to spend the rest of your life trying to save her from herself? If the answer is yes, then you are an incredible man and you should reconcile with her and expect her to cheat again and be ok with that. If the answer is no, then let her go. You will still be an incredible man for having the strength to have done that and set yourself free!

[IWant2BHappyAgain]

Reggie has really helped today. I now feel I understand more about why she took the stupid decisions she did. She definitely fits the profile of a person with Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD). It doesn’t make it right, but at least there’s an explanation beyond the problems we had already identified: -

 

Among many other symptoms that matched (e.g. negativity, child like emotions, extreme highs and lows) these are very poignant: -

 

When borderlines fall in love they often idealize their partners. It may feel like a love of a life time. In time this idealization evolves into a devaluation of the partner when the partner does not live up to their unrealistic expectations.

 

Individuals affected by BPD often exhibit a fear of being abandoned. If you have a short business trip - have a day out with friends - these can all make the borderline feel abandoned. The fear is often so great it often elicits a very defensive reaction - even infidelity. Borderlines often defeat the very relationship they so fear losing!

 

I have to admit I suspected my wife of having a personality order, but (naively I know) thought I could manage it and didn’t ever think it would lead to infidelity. I’m no fool though PelicanPreacher, I would have walked if I had known she would be more susceptible to infidelity. OK so what if I’m wanted to be my wife’s Messiah, shouldn’t every good boyfriend/husband desire to make his wife happy? I got real pleasure out of making her positive when she felt negative. I’ve listed all bad things about her here, but she did have lots of good qualities that I fell in love with. So what if we were and still are both dysfunctional maybe that’s why we were meant for each other?

 

Anyway enough of my own defence, I’m all for people posting their true feelings that’s what all this is about. Therapists can’t necessarily tell you what to do or how it is - and that’s what people are doing here! So keep it up, but do try and keep it constructive though you’re supposed to be trying to help me! You’re right though, l will seek further counselling whether I reconcile or separate. I do admit I need help with selecting women and making relationships last. But for today, I’m thinking do I put myself first and run or abandon my wife who obviously needs help? Remember abandonment is one of the things she fears (I know!) and I used to be her messiah. If we reconcile I seriously need to reconsider having kids at all. I’m not going to rush into anything though ... I need to let this sink in.

 

****, I’ve just read the definition of someone who is co-dependent (thanks Untouchable Fire) and that probably fits me with respect to my wife – I did too much for her in the relationship and I’m struggling to stay separated now as I want still want to help her. I didn’t realise just how screwed up things were! Oh well add it to the list for the councilling sessions .

 

All help so far appreciated!

[Untouchable_Fire]

ho is co-dependent (thanks Untouchable Fire) and that probably fits me with respect to my wife – I did too much for her in the relationship and I’m struggling to stay separated now as I want still want to help her. I didn’t realise just how screwed up things were! Oh well add it to the list for the councilling sessions .

 

All help so far appreciated!

 

Yeah, watch yourself with that. It is going to make women with mental problems seem absolutely magnetic to you!

 

I think the underlying reasoning is this... If I fix her she will appreciate and love me more. It feels great to be needed right?

 

The problem is this. Women who are mental can't be fixed. Well at least not by you or I. Best of Luck!

[Reggie]

Pelican was a little harsh. While it is true a healthier person can detect a BPD and will run sooner, you may or may not be "co-dependant'. Read a guy by the name of Richard Skerrit on this. He has a website and several books. He feels that the "co-dependant " klabel is used way too broadly and he mirrors your reasoning that it is very normal for someone to trust that his spouse has his best interest in mind and it is oaky to have trusted.

But, I had to face the same things. No question that my low sense of entitlement , having been raised by an abusive alcoholic dad. led me to be drawn to my XW and also led her to be drawn to me.

Nice thing about this problem, as opposed to a true personality disorder is that it is very amenable to therapy and you can get better. Also, it does not entail directly hurting others as BPD or NPD do. It can damge kids in that they see one modeling doormat behavior, though.

If you feel your wife fits the diagnostic criteria(I think 5 out of 9 is sufficient for a diagnosis), it will be difficult to get confirmation. Typically, BPDs will not go to therapy as it threatens all the defense mechanisms they have in place designed toplace blame on others and deflect it from themselves. So, often, one is stuck with his or her own assessment and, afer having reality distorted for a while by association with a BPD, you will question if you are crrect.

It helps to have some egregious things, like infidelity, bouncing checks, verbal abuse vs the ever present ambient abuse which is subtler, suicide threats or attempts, cutting, massive lying etc to help you see that the problem exists.

When I first started researching BPD on advice from my therapist and my lawyer, it really helped me to reflect back on some of the really flagrantly insane things my XW had done, the emasculating remarks, the check bouncing, the cold water dousings she would give me when I did not expect them. Really nuts stuff.

Bottom line, if she has this , there is no sense trying to help her at your own expense. It is really quite intractable. It is not like mental illness which is treatable with therapy and meds. Rather , it is a view of the world which isfirmly entrenched. I understand the "for better or worse" issue . But, no sense going down with the ship.