Holy Wombats! Things Are Taking a Turn

[wildsoul]

Without threadjacking I dont really get the seeing the xH.... its a loyalty thing isnt it?

 

If your daughter is devastated because her bas**** H left her for another woman, do you really invite him and the new girl (even someone as lovely as WS) over for a family BBQ?

 

EVEN if your sobbing daughter is not around it seems VERY disloyal.

 

I think as WS said in her earlier thread this idea of them all hanging out together is a real fantasy on his part.

Great post. There won't be any ambush though, not one started by me or SM anyways.

[whichwayisup]

Who knows how his in-laws will react to all this. They may not want anything to do with him once they find out why the marriage is ending..

[2sunny]

a better idea would be to wait until he is divorced to see him any further.

 

there is no need to meet his W. his actions will make it perfectly clear what his intentions are. if he wants to get divorced - he will. he obviously hasn't filed yet - so he obviously isn't ready to get divorced.

 

he's still an unavailable man pretending to be committed to WS so she'll stay around until he's ready to take action.

 

no need to meet the W - who knows what he's really told her? all this is only based upon what he's told WS with his words.

 

the outcome could only be painful for one or several involved.

[whichwayisup]

One thing that I don't understand, and this isn't against anyone here, just a general statement..

 

To end a marriage and start a new life with someone else SO quickly is not healthy. This guy has ALOT of emotional sorting out to do and his behaviour in the past has shown this. He's up and down like a toilet seat and things change monthly.. This is why I worry about you WS! Everything seems OK now, but in afew weeks from now, it can all change.

 

Not saying end it and walk away, but I do think detaching yourself from the daily this and that from his life will benefit you in the long run. Getting out of the habit of the affair mode (you may not be in this frame of mind, but he still is, even though he 'says' he's mentioned you to his wife and possibly meeting, he's still in affair mode in some sense).

 

Is he planning on moving in with you soon? If so, I would hold off on that. You two need to rebuild a new relationship with healthy boundries, healthy mindsets and right now HE certainly isn't ready.

[Trimmer]

OK, I understand better the context of where the meeting idea came from and where it stands right now...

 

WWIU, you really get the in-law stuff. From day one, he's talked about how the idea of losing them is the hardest part. His own family is pretty disconnected. His mom died. His dad remarried and doesn't talk to his kids. His siblings are scattered in different states. He told me that one of the main reasons he married his W in the first place is that it felt so good to have a family around him. Her family has been his for 16 years.

Not to criticize him too much, but does anyone else see this as a concern? Did he literally say it was "one of the main reasons" or was it said as a kind of a major side-benefit?

 

If they reject his best efforts, he'll also feel horrible.

Kinda like when your spouse leaves you, probably.

 

My intution says I need to let him do this in his way, and be willing to support his vision of getting along with them, which I am. I'm very open-minded and willing to befriend them, if they want to befriend us.

Well, as you acknowledged, this seems like a long shot. I keep up a good and familial relationship with my in-laws, but I have several factors in my advantage: (1) we have kids, so they are still, literally "family", and reason to get together; (2) I was the "left" partner, so there is a logical way for them to make space for me; conversely, if I had broken their daughter's heart by leaving her, I would never expect I would get a warm reception.

 

I think the idea of my parents welcoming over my ex is possible (given the kids) but unlikely, and the idea of them making any room for the man she left me for is kinda hilarious. To tell you the truth, I'm probably over it more than they are; I think their feeling would be, why bother?

 

So good luck to your MM - of course I wish for you that everyone is happy and gets along well, but it seems a naive hope.

 

But then I'm much less innocent than I was a few years back, so maybe that's on me.

[Trimmer]

One thing that I don't understand, and this isn't against anyone here, just a general statement..

 

To end a marriage and start a new life with someone else SO quickly is not healthy. This guy has ALOT of emotional sorting out to do and his behaviour in the past has shown this. He's up and down like a toilet seat and things change monthly.. This is why I worry about you WS! Everything seems OK now, but in afew weeks from now, it can all change.

That kind of resonates with the point I made earlier about this turning into, for him, a transition between relationships, instead of him focusing on properly ending his current relationship in the most healthy way possible.

 

That coupled with the idea that he married his current wife largely to surround himself with family, and his gripping so tightly to them - seeming not to accept yet that to divorce his wife pretty much implies divorcing her family - I agree he's got some stuff to work through.

 

WS - I'm not intending to provoke you with this question, and I apologize again that I don't know the background of your story better, but do you think (or know) if you were not in the picture, would he be likely leaving his wife?

[mytruelove]

WS, no doubt he very well may love you. most definitely. heck, you know i am the very biggest optimist here.

 

if my guy asked me to marry him tomorrow. i would. i feel that strongly. so i understand. i've known him for nine years though and as much as i don't like it, i think he is taking a much healthier realistic approach in being alone for a while-one that won't ultimately destroy our relationship if we do get together. i've come to realize that sometimes he knows better and that he just might have my best interest at heart also. he's also doing the best possible thing for me because i have some more unresolved issues that i need to address on my own and he makes me do that - no matter how much patience and restraint this all takes.

 

he may love you with all his heart WS, BUT, that still doesn't take away from the fact that he may be rushing it because of the other issues. he still may be rushing that love out of neediness, avoidance, insecurity, refusal to deal with issues, take responsibility, etc., etc., etc.

 

hope that makes sense.

[2sunny]

i do agree that there is something to be said for BOTH WS and SM to be apart and alone for a while.

 

this allows each of them to understand how to be happy on their own and whether or not it might be a wise choice to try to be together after all of this tangled mess is sorted through.

 

WS was married just not long ago - and it may be a positive experience to learn to just be happy without the thought of any man being involved on a daily basis.

 

i could only see positive things coming out of this decision.

[wildsoul]

he may love you with all his heart WS, BUT, that still doesn't take away from the fact that he may be rushing it because of the other issues. he still may be rushing that love out of neediness, avoidance, insecurity, refusal to deal with issues, take responsibility, etc., etc., etc.

 

hope that makes sense.

It makes sense. But do you really think this is rushing it?

 

He did a semi-separation into a room rental at the end of April. He then moved out into a full apartment at the end of August. So even that was 4 months ago.

 

I don't think it's particularly fast. I also think that he still has a lot of steps ahead of him that he will ONLY face as he does move forward. Does that make sense? I remember from my own recent D that there were phases of letting go that happened all throughout.

 

IME, sometimes inner change comes more as a result of taking action. Certainly there are times to sit and grieve and process BEFORE taking action, but it sometimes works the other way around. He's had lots of time to think, plan, and decide. I'm quite sure that he will hit another level of grief and processing soon, especially if he gets the D talks going for real now.

[2sunny]

He's had lots of time to think, plan, and decide.

 

I'm quite sure that he will hit another level of grief and processing soon, especially if he gets the D talks going for real now.

 

he's had time to think, plan and decide - but nothing PERMANENT to show for his time pondering. and pondering is precisely what he is doing instead of blatant action.

 

his grief and processing is what he does need to do - ALONE. this will only be to your benefit if you remove yourself while he goes through this is in his own way and his own time.

 

i remember a while back you said you had specific boundaries set up for yourself. i think you have adjusted them over and over to allow his manipulation to seep into the happy part of your life. it's only bound to get worse before it gets better if you are not removed from the chaos while he goes through his inevitable grieving period.

 

there is no one that can make that part different for him. he just has to go through it on his own and in his own way.

[wildsoul]

WS - I'm not intending to provoke you with this question, and I apologize again that I don't know the background of your story better, but do you think (or know) if you were not in the picture, would he be likely leaving his wife?

Of course I've asked him this several times at different junctures. His answer is that he already decided to end his M before he met me. He was getting ready and making his decision for over a year, as well as trying to see if his W and him could repair their M. She refused to go to therapy. She invalidated all of his feelings and the problems he saw in the M. She's not a bad person, but very stubborn and chose to ignore and dismiss him. He gave up and started detaching. Then he also started looking outside his M to see what (who) was out there, before he left. (Not flattering, but that's the affair-seeking truth.)

 

When I met him, he told me he was getting ready to move out. I dated him for a month, then realizing that his W didn't really know and approve of him dating before he was moved out, I broke up with him. Then he DID rent a room and start separating for real.

 

It's hard to say. On the one hand, he said he was going to separate and he DID. But it was also timed with when I would break up with him over it seeming like he wasn't really ending his M. These things aren't cut and dry. But yes, I think he'd have left anyways.

[jwi71]

Here's the thing...he moved out in April! APRIL.

 

He wanted to file for D even before he met Wild per Wild's last post (and previously).

 

So WTF is he waiting for?

 

I'm sorry - I must be a retard. But any man who waits for YEARS to divorce just doesn't want it bad enough. Now, even after building an R with Wild, he STILL WON'T.

 

Monkey man. I referred to it in the New Year post - he's a monkey man. He won't leave until he's certain he wont have to be alone. Not letting go of one vine before having another firmly in his grasp.

 

The number one issue I have: it has been YEARS and he still hasn't divorced. Its that simple. No man hangs around a M with no kids for ...what? The in-laws? Are you effin' kidding me? Hello...JJ nailed it. The minute they find out he has filed, they'll sick the dogs on him. I wouldn't be surprised if they put a happy face on things just to be supportive to their daughter and her M - not FOR him. D goes through and he's history. Especially after they find out about YOU.

 

This guys has issues.

 

A choice is a value judgment. One must pick between equally appealing alternatives. And, by definition, to choose one is to FORGO the other. What has HE chosen (actions dear, not words...actions).

 

Did you go back and read the first post of your last few threads wild? See the pattern?

[jj33]

WS it seems I often agree with your best friend but not in this case. Its time. Does he want to divorc or not? If so the light is not getting any greener. If not end of this month, end of February. I dont think you even have to tell him its a deadline. Either he is going to do it or he is not.

 

JW Your monkeyman analogy is very apt. But I dont think that is a dealbreaker for Wild - many people need a catalyst to leave a marriage. The issue is that he has one foot out the door.

 

Its the old you cant have one foot on the bus - either you are on or you are off. He has WS with one foot on the bus and so her heart is being dragged down the street...

 

There is another issue which may be at work here tho I desparately hope not. In some relationships where there have been alot of ups and downs, the person who has been on the roller coaster has invested a lot of emotional energy in a R, feels just how great it can be when things are good, and then stays in it because of that investment hoping that in time things will go the way they want them to go.

 

There is a shorter way of describing it not sure what the technical term is for it. But I hope in any event this is not one of those situations.

[wildsoul]

WS it seems I often agree with your best friend but not in this case. Its time. Does he want to divorc or not? If so the light is not getting any greener. If not end of this month, end of February. I dont think you even have to tell him its a deadline. Either he is going to do it or he is not.

 

JW Your monkeyman analogy is very apt. But I dont think that is a dealbreaker for Wild - many people need a catalyst to leave a marriage. The issue is that he has one foot out the door.

 

Its the old you cant have one foot on the bus - either you are on or you are off. He has WS with one foot on the bus and so her heart is being dragged down the street...

 

There is another issue which may be at work here tho I desparately hope not. In some relationships where there have been alot of ups and downs, the person who has been on the roller coaster has invested a lot of emotional energy in a R, feels just how great it can be when things are good, and then stays in it because of that investment hoping that in time things will go the way they want them to go.

 

There is a shorter way of describing it not sure what the technical term is for it. But I hope in any event this is not one of those situations.

Agreed. I think my friend's advice was really off this time. FWIW, she's never had a long-term relationship though, so it's not her best arena for advice anyway.

 

I think his timing is alright (at this juncture.) There are reasons for why I'd have liked it faster; there are reasons why slower is better. But one thing I haven't mentioned in awhile is my "inner timeline." As we were entering the holidays, I was trying to tune into myself (yes, ME, and in this context it's okay to be selfish) and guage where I was at in terms of patience. In a contemplative space, I asked myself, "By what date will I know if I should wait or go?" and the date Jan 16 appeared. I realize my new agey ways don't work for everyone, but this is how I pray and get answers. Then through the holidays, I did my best to just forget about it and let it go. I never told him my inner-timeline or even that I was thinking of it. So it does seem very promising to me that he is taking bigger steps now. This timing is okay for me. (And I'll keep reevaluating as we go.)

 

jj33, one of the things I've said to him all along is that "I hate feeling like we've got one foot on the gas and one on the brake!"

 

I'm trying to be in the present-tense, while being observant (and afraid) of wasting time in a go-nowhere R. Our relationship has been progressing and deepening. The affair-fog has lifted, though we still have powerful chemistry, and we're getting into a more "normal" groove as a couple now. There is a sense of stability that has made me calmer. I don't feel like I need to PUSH and set ultimatums right now. I'm giving him some space to lead.

[jj33]

January 16th is next Friday. Next week is a great week to file for divorce. Everyone is back from the holidays. Things are pickign up again. A fine week for divorcing.

 

Very nice sychronicity on the gas/brake/bus.

[Trimmer]

But one thing I haven't mentioned in awhile is my "inner timeline." As we were entering the holidays, I was trying to tune into myself (yes, ME, and in this context it's okay to be selfish) and guage where I was at in terms of patience. In a contemplative space, I asked myself, "By what date will I know if I should wait or go?" and the date Jan 16 appeared. I realize my new agey ways don't work for everyone, but this is how I pray and get answers.

WS - just to clarify, have you considered what occurrence by that date will or won't be enough? On one hand, a particular date seems to make things solid and certain. But you've stated it as if "you'll know" or not by that date, and in this, it sounds like there is lots of room for interpretation.

 

What if you don't get a clear sign one way or the other by the 16th: will you convince yourself that it's a sign that you need to be patient and wait for another sign?

[wildsoul]

January 16th is next Friday. Next week is a great week to file for divorce. Everyone is back from the holidays. Things are pickign up again. A fine week for divorcing.

:laugh: You're hilarous.

 

Without sharing too much of his info, I'll say that he works in a seasonal business, and that's another reason why I think he should file now. His busy season starts in a couple weeks and doesn't stop until May. I would love to see him start it now, getting it to an atty, before he gets busy.

 

However, yesterday I asked if he and she set a date to start the paperwork, and he said that she is begging him to hold off. (I believe that's true.) *sigh* So there is no point in me hoping or prompting him to file right now. I mean, sure...I hope he will, but my expectations are that he won't. I'm keen to ask him more questions obviously.

 

My Jan 16 date wasn't a date by which I decided he needed to file. It was more about me, and when I had to see some kind of sign that I should wait or go. I'm going to see him tonight, so we'll have a chance for a follow up to yesterday's call.

[2sunny]

i must be on ignore...

[wildsoul]

What if you don't get a clear sign one way or the other by the 16th: will you convince yourself that it's a sign that you need to be patient and wait for another sign?

I can detect the teasing in your post! But it's funny because there is some truth to your statement. Sometimes in prayer, the exact answer is YES to keep waiting until a more clear answer appears. Not everything is on my time-table, that's for sure.

 

Trust that I recognize the implication that I could just be kidding myself, finding a "divine excuse" to passively wait. I gotcha.

 

But without fail, my intuitive approach does serve me best. Far better than my will, usually. I remember the LONG WAIT when I was still married and praying to know if I should stay or go. We did all the practical things of therapy, but my gut just didn't know yet. So I kept doing my best to seek clarity, praying every day to know. After almost a year, one day I was meditating and all of a sudden I felt a warmth come over me and felt a calm, but absolutely certain desire to take off my wedding ring. I never put it back on. Then I moved out. Although the timing seemed interminably slow to me, my H was ready then, too. I think the gracefulness and intuitive approach helped our D go so well.

[Reggie]

WS it seems I often agree with your best friend but not in this case. Its time. Does he want to divorc or not? If so the light is not getting any greener. If not end of this month, end of February. I dont think you even have to tell him its a deadline. Either he is going to do it or he is not.

 

JW Your monkeyman analogy is very apt. But I dont think that is a dealbreaker for Wild - many people need a catalyst to leave a marriage. The issue is that he has one foot out the door.

 

Its the old you cant have one foot on the bus - either you are on or you are off. He has WS with one foot on the bus and so her heart is being dragged down the street...

 

There is another issue which may be at work here tho I desparately hope not. In some relationships where there have been alot of ups and downs, the person who has been on the roller coaster has invested a lot of emotional energy in a R, feels just how great it can be when things are good, and then stays in it because of that investment hoping that in time things will go the way they want them to go.

 

There is a shorter way of describing it not sure what the technical term is for it. But I hope in any event this is not one of those situations.

 

Masochism?

[jj33]

LOL Reggie thats very funny. Sometimes sadly it is.

 

But you never know until the story has played out. Sometimes it has been an exercise in masochism, sometimes it was just sticking with your partner through the tough times until things got onto an even keel. I wish the latter for WS.

 

And WS I guess it sounds Pollyanna but why not? This week is as good a week for divorcing as any. Last week was first week back, this week is people getting down to business.

 

Agreed it may be hard for him to actually file while she is thrashing like a flounder on the beach, but he can AT LEAST start interviewing lawyers, and get everything ready for filing so that as you say when his business gets busy all he has to do is pull the trigger (i.e. file), he has already started the process.

 

The property settlement may take awhile anyway. Starting the divorce process while he is busy with work is not a big deal. If she doesnt want the divorce then its very unlikely they will sit down and hammer out a settlement quickly anyway.

[LavendarGirl]

And WS I guess it sounds Pollyanna but why not? This week is as good a week for divorcing as any. Last week was first week back, this week is people getting down to business.

 

I've sometimes wondered if January is a divorce lawyer's busy season. There are all those late November - all of December tentative divorces where the divorcing spouse didn't want to ruin the holidays and so postponed filing.

 

Okay, back to my cage.

[jwi71]

Got it.

Jan 16 he has filed and can PROVE it to you.

 

(And if he hasn't? Then what? Another week? Month? Year?)

 

I'll back next week unless events warrant.

[awkward]

I really hope things work out for you. I'm wondering if you have received any validation outside of the MM that 1) his wife knows about you and 2) his wife knows that they will be divorcing. Talking to the wife would clear that up but I can see how that would be insensitive. It's just that I have read a lot of stories where the MM tells two different things to the women he loves, even separated men. I'm not an OW or a BS but I also feel like something is wrong here. I'm not trying to rain on your parade. When it all works out I will be there to congratulate you. I don't post much but when I do I try not to be to judgmental as I know which forum I posting in. If I cross the line please feel free to nudge me.

[Trimmer]

I can detect the teasing in your post! But it's funny because there is some truth to your statement.

Well, then you read it exactly right.

 

But without fail, my intuitive approach does serve me best. Far better than my will, usually. I remember the LONG WAIT when I was still married and praying to know if I should stay or go. We did all the practical things of therapy, but my gut just didn't know yet. So I kept doing my best to seek clarity, praying every day to know. After almost a year, one day I was meditating and all of a sudden I felt a warmth come over me and felt a calm, but absolutely certain desire to take off my wedding ring. I never put it back on. Then I moved out. Although the timing seemed interminably slow to me, my H was ready then, too. I think the gracefulness and intuitive approach helped our D go so well.

Well I wish the best for you, too. You don't owe me any justification for your timeline or its conditions. You seem to be honest with yourself, and that's the first advice I would give, so best of luck!

 

Talking to the wife would clear that up but I can see how that would be insensitive.

Boy, isn't that an understatement... You really can't go to her and say, essentially, "could you answer a couple of questions for me, because I'm trying to make sure your husband is making progress towards leaving you so we can get our relationship going?" Boy, would that be... awkward!

 

I've sometimes wondered if January is a divorce lawyer's busy season. There are all those late November - all of December tentative divorces where the divorcing spouse didn't want to ruin the holidays and so postponed filing.

Kind of like Monday morning at the post office after the Sunday break. I always think that the pipeline must still be flowing to some degree - people dropping letters into the collection boxes, if nothing else, and that must make Monday more busy than the rest of the days...