Bella Jordan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 My fiance and I had an argument a couple of weeks ago in which I allegedly embarrassed him in front of his boss and coworkers. (Unfortunately, I'd had too much to drink and don't remember what I said.) He text me the day after to tell me that he was still angry, after which I called and wrote to apologize. We didn't speak again until he drunk dialed me 2 days later, spoke incoherently for a bit, then asked me to come over, which led me to stop by his place the following day to check on him. He didn't answer the door. He later text to ask why I'd come over and that I should leave him alone. I called him and told him I was tired of the hot/cold behavior and that I didn't understand why he'd call me one minute to ask me to come over then become furious and backed away the next. I said I couldn't handle this type of behavior and that he need not text/call me again...that we were done. A few hours later, as soon as I came online, he IMd me to tell me that he really didn't remember calling me but that he wanted "some time with no contact." I said he could take as much time as he needed, but that I couldn't handle his hostility. He responded that he "just need[ed] time to get over it" and that, to do so, he needed to be "left alone." Can any of you offer any insight to what's going on in his mind? I've kept NC since we spoke, which was a week ago. I really thought he'd have cooled down and contacted me by now and I'm terrified that the damage that's been done is irreparable.
fromfaraway Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I am really you have to go through this. Neither I nore anyone else can know what is going on inside his head; however, I can give you the following advice: in situations like these, USUALLY, the more you push yourself on him in this stage, the more likely he will pull himself away from you. I know it must be very painful and confusing for you, but I believe there is nothing you can do at this time, particularly that you initiated contact last time and he clearly said he needs space. Best wishes to you!
Stockalone Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Not remembering what you said sure doesn't help. Has he not told you what it was that you said? It sounds like both of you can be a bit stubborn and childish at times. You should be able to at least talk to each other instead of fueling the fire like this. You telling him that you guys were done and him refusing to talk to you and not letting you in when you went to his place. Getting drunk and arguing with him in front of his boss and co-workers might already be unpleasant for your bf, regardless of what was said. Maybe he is being teased by his buddies and his boss now got the wrong impression of you two. Some of us men do need to alone-time if our pride is hurt. However, it doesn't sound like you had a real discussion about what happened. I would try to have a face-to-face meeting to talk about it. You know him best, and depending what worked best for you when you had fights in the past, I would either just show up at his place or call/E-Mail him to set up that meeting where you both have time to talk (maybe the weekend).
rdbidwell Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 type in push and pull traits on google....could be he is bipolar, borderline personality disorder, or the like....pushing and pulling back are traits of people with problems sometimes
Author Bella Jordan Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 type in push and pull traits on google....could be he is bipolar, borderline personality disorder, or the like....pushing and pulling back are traits of people with problems sometimes It's really interesting that you mention that. He had a really difficult childhood (physical abuse, finding out he was adopted at 18...2 weeks before he was supposed to leave for NYC, etc). And about 3 weeks ago, he completely blew up for no reason - told me that I was just wasting his time because he didn't have anything to offer, that he was holding me back, etc. Honestly, I was crushed. I couldn't figure out where it was coming from. He called the next day, and the next, and the next. When I finally saw him 3 days later, he apologized and told me he had just panicked because everything had happened so quickly but that he couldn't imagine his life without me...that he KNEW I was the woman he wanted to marry. Everything was fine after that, until the days leading up to the argument in which he'd go from calling/texting multiple times a day, to nothing a day later.
Author Bella Jordan Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 Ok - so I just Googled push/pull...and the description of borderline personality disorder fits him exactly. It's almost scary accurate. Which begs the question, is a relationship with him even possible? I mean, when we became involved, I knew he had a lot of issues. We both did actually, but he was obviously far more affected by his than mine. The thing is, I do love him and want to be there for him. But I'm scared that by breaking NC, I'm just going to push him further away.
Shygirl15 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Mh. Agree he has issues. But you do too, I'm sorry to say. It was very improper to embarrass him infront of his co-workers like that. Just take it slow with him and let him recover at his own pace.
Author Bella Jordan Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 When we first spoke after the argument, I explained to him that I had found out that my grandmother (who has been like a second mother to me and who I am VERY close to) just found out that her breast cancer has come back and that it doesn't look good. My parents are also in the middle of a very messy divorce and, unfortunately, I've been dragged into the middle of it. I told him that I knew all of this was no excuse to treat him badly, but it seems that he's still nowhere near being ready to forgive me.
SoulSearch_CO Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Unfortunately, at this point there's not a whole lot you can do to "save" anything. He told you NC, so you have to honor that. I agree that any pushing you do to interact is going to push him further away. He'll just have to decide on his own if he wants you back. Until then, I guess you'll just have to decide how long you want to wait. I haven't been formally diagnosed with BPD, but I exhibit characteristics of it. I've heard different professional opinions about it. One of the best recommendations I've heard is trying Dialectical Behavior Therapy. It was originally developed by Marsha Linehan to help people that experience extreme emotions to learn to regulate. It can also be useful for PTSD sufferers, and some other things. I got a workbook off of Amazon that I'm working through right now. The point is, HE has to want to get better. You can make suggestions, but can't force. And I wouldn't tell him, "I think you have BPD." If somebody had told me that before I figured it out on my own, I would have been really insulted - like they were calling me a nut. If you guys do get back together, accept responsibility for your own problems by saying that you are going into personal counseling and suggest that it might be a good idea for him, as well. And I think staying away from alcohol would be a good idea for both of you - it doesn't have good effects on either one.
Author Bella Jordan Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 Not remembering what you said sure doesn't help. Has he not told you what it was that you said? It sounds like both of you can be a bit stubborn and childish at times. You should be able to at least talk to each other instead of fueling the fire like this. You telling him that you guys were done and him refusing to talk to you and not letting you in when you went to his place. Getting drunk and arguing with him in front of his boss and co-workers might already be unpleasant for your bf, regardless of what was said. Maybe he is being teased by his buddies and his boss now got the wrong impression of you two. Some of us men do need to alone-time if our pride is hurt. However, it doesn't sound like you had a real discussion about what happened. I would try to have a face-to-face meeting to talk about it. You know him best, and depending what worked best for you when you had fights in the past, I would either just show up at his place or call/E-Mail him to set up that meeting where you both have time to talk (maybe the weekend). Unfortunately, I don't remember what I said, and when I asked him he said he doesn't want to get into it. The thing is, I did at least have the good sense to wait until we got outside of the bar to speak to him about what was bothering me so as to prevent his coworkers from overhearing. We didn't discuss what happened until 2 days later, after which he asked for some time with no contact to get over his anger. The thing is, it's been a week, and while I want to honor his request he can't expect me to sit idly by while he figures out what he wants. I know I need to move forward and stop overanalyzing the situation, but I just can't help myself. I guess what I'm asking is: how long is too long? How much space does he really need??
2sure Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I agree everyone involved here has some issues , youth possibly being the largest among them. It is possible that you did embarass him in front of his boss and co-workers. It never looks good to have your wife or gf drunk in those situations. To save face with them, he may have broken up with you. Even if he doesnt really want to. Not saying it is a good reaction, just pointing out the possiblity.
Stockalone Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 And about 3 weeks ago, he completely blew up for no reason - told me that I was just wasting his time because he didn't have anything to offer, that he was holding me back, etc. Honestly, I was crushed. I couldn't figure out where it was coming from. He called the next day, and the next, and the next. When I finally saw him 3 days later, he apologized and told me he had just panicked because everything had happened so quickly but that he couldn't imagine his life without me...that he KNEW I was the woman he wanted to marry. That is a whole bunch of serious issues. Unfortunately, I don't remember what I said, and when I asked him he said he doesn't want to get into it. The thing is, I did at least have the good sense to wait until we got outside of the bar to speak to him about what was bothering me so as to prevent his coworkers from overhearing. We didn't discuss what happened until 2 days later, after which he asked for some time with no contact to get over his anger. While I do understand that he wants to be alone to think things through, I am a bit surprised that you guys didn't talk at all. It just seems to be a bit childish, but then again, without knowing what you said, it's hard to determine why he would react that way. Apparently it was bad enough, but it could be so many things that make him do this. Especially if he doesn't fell good enough for you, is afraid of holding him back. He has a lot to figure out. The thing is, it's been a week, and while I want to honor his request he can't expect me to sit idly by while he figures out what he wants. I know I need to move forward and stop overanalyzing the situation, but I just can't help myself. I guess what I'm asking is: how long is too long? How much space does he really need?? I am afraid we can't answer that. Only he could tell you that. That he ignores you is not good. As it stands now, you don't know why he has withdrawn (because you don't remember and he won't tell you), you don't know how long it will take him to sort things out and you don't know what his decision will be. That is a lot to endure and I feel for you. However, that gives you the chance to decide what you need and what you want to say to him once he makes up his mind. And it gives you time to think about if you are okay with what he does. Keeping you out of the loop entirely, without being given a chance to explain yourself. That would bother me the most. Your feelings matter too, you are part of the relationship. Given the new information, I have to agree with the others that pushing him for an answer carries a high risk in this situation. If possible, try to survive another day, and then another after that and so on. Still, you are not obligated to wait endlessly for him to make up his mind and torture yourself. If you can't take it anymore, you could try to appeal to his sense of decency and fairness. I would apologize again for getting so drunk as to not remember what you said and that you understand his need to work through it alone. But that you have a really hard time dealing with the uncertainty, especially because you can't remember what you said. Tell him that you are afraid he is worrying about things you probably didn't even mean. And that you would like the chance to talk and explain yourself. Not to get an answer right away, but to see where you currently stand and that you would also be there for him to listen to him even if he has doubts about your relationship that he wants to talk about. To have a chance to set things straight if there has been a misunderstanding between what and how you said what you said and the way he interprets it.
rdbidwell Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 (((Unfortunately, I don't remember what I said, and when I asked him he said he doesn't want to get into it. The thing is, I did at least have the good sense to wait until we got outside of the bar to speak to him about what was bothering me so as to prevent his coworkers from overhearing. We didn't discuss what happened until 2 days later, after which he asked for some time with no contact to get over his anger. The thing is, it's been a week, and while I want to honor his request he can't expect me to sit idly by while he figures out what he wants. I know I need to move forward and stop overanalyzing the situation, but I just can't help myself. I guess what I'm asking is: how long is too long? How much space does he really need??)) Here is what I understand about this.....until he gets help for the issues in his life, he will continue to respond in this fight or flight manner...because the triggered response to the traumas are buried deep in his center brain. There is nothing you can do as a person in the realm of reasonable relational skills to make this better, because they are not the problem in the slightest. If you visit a Bp support group and lurk for a while you will understand just how difficult life will be for you. I am sure he is a wonderful person sometimes and has other attributes...but if "if" he is struggling with Bp....then there is nothing he can do in and of himself without awareness, intent, and healthy limits set by those around him who are also aware of what is really going on. PSTD....hangs on because people are not able to distinguish between reality of the Now and what is a triggered emotional fight or flight response inside them....Making Emotionally Intelligent development non-exsistant from the point of trauma. You are suffering what so many do....desire...hope....effort....sincere love and compassion....but these beautiful inner workings for social relationships and long term companionship are not actually working in him....so you are hurt and confused as to why your love is not enough to create reasonable conversation and peace. That pain can and will be multiplied by thousands of hours and many years of your life if you are not very aware that you are facing the fears and triggers of an Emotionally undeveloped person....due to no actual ill intent of their own. YOu are a beautiful person in a no win internal conflict. I think there is hope though....but only with therapy...and his complete embrace of it. (my wife is struggling with bp....for twenty yrs..now..and has put me through hell untill I found out why...after much personal harm. I would not want to discourage your love or desire for him but just want you to not be hurt any longer than you already have....I don't want you do suffer what I have...I hope I am wrong about it all...but from what you are saying it really looks like one of many layered issues...so sorry for you pain and love. )
Author Bella Jordan Posted January 8, 2009 Author Posted January 8, 2009 (((Unfortunately, I don't remember what I said, and when I asked him he said he doesn't want to get into it. The thing is, I did at least have the good sense to wait until we got outside of the bar to speak to him about what was bothering me so as to prevent his coworkers from overhearing. We didn't discuss what happened until 2 days later, after which he asked for some time with no contact to get over his anger. The thing is, it's been a week, and while I want to honor his request he can't expect me to sit idly by while he figures out what he wants. I know I need to move forward and stop overanalyzing the situation, but I just can't help myself. I guess what I'm asking is: how long is too long? How much space does he really need??)) Here is what I understand about this.....until he gets help for the issues in his life, he will continue to respond in this fight or flight manner...because the triggered response to the traumas are buried deep in his center brain. There is nothing you can do as a person in the realm of reasonable relational skills to make this better, because they are not the problem in the slightest. If you visit a Bp support group and lurk for a while you will understand just how difficult life will be for you. I am sure he is a wonderful person sometimes and has other attributes...but if "if" he is struggling with Bp....then there is nothing he can do in and of himself without awareness, intent, and healthy limits set by those around him who are also aware of what is really going on. PSTD....hangs on because people are not able to distinguish between reality of the Now and what is a triggered emotional fight or flight response inside them....Making Emotionally Intelligent development non-exsistant from the point of trauma. You are suffering what so many do....desire...hope....effort....sincere love and compassion....but these beautiful inner workings for social relationships and long term companionship are not actually working in him....so you are hurt and confused as to why your love is not enough to create reasonable conversation and peace. That pain can and will be multiplied by thousands of hours and many years of your life if you are not very aware that you are facing the fears and triggers of an Emotionally undeveloped person....due to no actual ill intent of their own. YOu are a beautiful person in a no win internal conflict. I think there is hope though....but only with therapy...and his complete embrace of it. (my wife is struggling with bp....for twenty yrs..now..and has put me through hell untill I found out why...after much personal harm. I would not want to discourage your love or desire for him but just want you to not be hurt any longer than you already have....I don't want you do suffer what I have...I hope I am wrong about it all...but from what you are saying it really looks like one of many layered issues...so sorry for you pain and love. ) RDB - your insight has definitely hit the nail on the head. Per your advice, I'm taking my worries and concerns over to a BPD online forum to seek the support I need. I understand that while I will never be able to fully understand the motivations behind his actions, I can at least understand why I'm left feeling so guilty and helpless and, hopefully, talk with others who can offer some advice on how to move forward in the wake of this crisis.
bean1 Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Bella, his actions haven't given any inclination to actual BPD (I work with persons diagnosed with BPD by a trained professional), it sounds like he is incredibly embarassed after this incident and it is causing him to rethink the relationship. Like a lot of men, he needs space to figure these things out, and isn't well equipped to deal with bad situations in the first place. Rather than assuming he has an undiagnosed mental illness (actual diagnosis is very indepth and can only be done by through a series of meetings with an actual trained professional doctor), look at the perspective that he is evaluating his decision to spend the rest of his life with you after this incident. He may come to a conclusion you like, he may not. He needs to figure this out on his own.
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