wildsoul Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I've been around here, posting to other threads, but now I'm ready for a check in. There's no drama or problem to report, nor any breakthrough good news. Dull, perhaps, but I find that posting here keeps me centered and I do appreciate the supportive connections with all of you. The last time I started a thread was during Thanksgiving, when my SM was being a narcisstic jerk. We didn't break up, but I had told him that I wanted a time-out and I took it. I spent time with my friends and family. Also, some of you might recall that the darkening days of winter were taking my situational depression (finances, SM drama, work drama) and making me feel even more hopeless and down. Seeking a way to boost my serotonin without taking meds, I tried 5htp (an amino acid that is a serotonin building block) and OMG, what a world of difference! After just a few days I was sleeping and dreaming better. After 10 days I wasn't crying at every small upset. Now, I still feel all my feelings, but I feel normal again. I can't recommend it highly enough. Almost a week after the T-day drama, we got together to sort things through. He acknowledged he was being a jerk and taking out his stress on me. I really made clear that I have a boundary over the way he yells and fights unfairly. T-day marked the 3rd angry outburst of his over the year we've been together, and I'll have no more of that. He promised he won't, but obviously this is probably a check that can't be cashed. Really, this is why I haven't posted. I'm waiting for consistency there. FWIW, he's been an angel ever since. We spent all of Christmas eve/day, New Years eve/day, and much of the last 6 weeks together. It feels like we've been playing house, testing the waters for how we get along as a full-time couple. We've been really happy together! Because he spent the holidays with me and all of the days/nights together, I'm feeling more secure. We feel like a real couple now, and not like an affair. One day, we were talking and I was explaining how I still need to know that he is serious about filing for D soon, and also want to know that his W is on the same page. I'm not pushing for a paperwork date, as I feel that really is their business, but I want to know that we are no longer an affair (even if he has moved out.) Not completely serious, I tested him by saying, "After the holidays, I'd like a chance to meet your wife, so I can hear from her that you two aren't talking about reconcilliation. I need to know that she knows you are dating me." Then he said yes! Was he just calling my bluff? I thought maybe so, but then just the other day he brought it up again, saying he needs to pick up the household bills from her this week and also to discuss the 3 of us meeting. It seems awkward, but I'm prepared to follow through if he is. After all the time we've been spending together, he's gone back to his place for the week. (It's closer to his work than my place.) It feels good to have some time alone again, too. That seems healthy for both of us.
jj33 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 That all sounds really good. No drama over the holidays is a HUGE step forward. Particularly after all the back and forth about Thanksgiving and her family etc etc. The fact that he has pulled away from her family sufficiently to stay with you through Xmas and New Year seems like a big deal in and of itself. Really happy to hear your good news. And now to be devil's advocate: Are you SURE you want to meet his W? What will that really do for you? How will that move things forward for you? Yes it will tell you that she KNOWS that you are in his life, but isnt it a little like the dog and the tree (you know how much I respect and support you but must ask) I suppose its hard to say no thanks when he is going along with it... but is it what you want. I dont think it is. As they have no children, once he divorces, they may never see each other at all - ever. Is it the kind thing to do to put you in her face? If he is really moving forward with the divorce, then she knows that. Why does she have to be faced with the fact that he is with someone new? Yes its reality, but she will have to deal with the divorce and the reasons why etc in her own time and in her own way. Im not convinced this is going to feel good to you in the long run much as it gives you the security that "she knows" right now. Of course you may have thought this through and feel that this is the best way for you to feel secure I dont know. But my guess is you dont need to do that to her. Basically I think its humiliating for you to show up at her house and meet with her. What does it say? OK *****, you are history and I am his woman now? (kidding as its you if it were someone else thats how it comes across) It strikes me like the posse riding in to let the natives know that they have secured the area.... Either that or Mommy going in to make sure that he told you the truth and checking up on him... also not good for you or your relationship. In either case its not you or not the you we have come to know on the board. You may have a totally different perspective on it. But if not, then dont let the rollercoaster of dating a SM lead you to act in such a territorial manner. As stressful and crazy making as it is, you dont need to stoop to the depths others so comfortably inhabit. Anyway you may have discarded the idea of meeting her or may have been kidding. Let us know...
Author wildsoul Posted January 6, 2009 Author Posted January 6, 2009 [snipped for brevity] Anyway you may have discarded the idea of meeting her or may have been kidding. Let us know... When I first suggested it to him, I wasn't really serious. It was an off the cuff idea to: A) Answer the question, "Is he telling her the same thing as me, or does she think they are on some kind of trial separation?" (Your "mommy" theory.) B) Test to see his reaction. (Panic or have a more genuine response?) C) Since he had also said that he wants to somehow keep his W and her family in his life over years to come, I also asserted that if that were to be the case, and we were a couple, then I would be going with him. (I know one couple, childless like us, who began as an A, but are now happily married. They even have the exW over as a houseguest! It's all very mature.) Again, I was mostly just trying to think outside of the box--and was. You do know me well enough that it's not to "mark territory" with her. But now that you point it out, that's an awful thought as to how it could be perceived. Ick. I've been thinking that of course the decision to meet or not is ALL up to her. Also in my way of thinking, it could be a way for her to come to terms with who I am first-hand rather than hear about me through his friends and family (that I'm starting to meet.) I'm also willing to answer any and all questions she might have, in case she needs that. But now that I AM thinking aobut it, my ideas are probably the least likely scenario for how it would actually go. He may just be calling my bluff. I'm also wondering if he might use our meeting as a way to put it all out there, hiding behind my skirt in a sense. Because once it's revealed that he's in another relationship (as opposed to just him dating casually, which she does know about) then the dirty work is done. That's an icky thought to me, too. In truth, what I need to see next is the beginning of paperwork being filed. He hasn't set a do date for that yet. It's the next road-marker for us though, as I set it aside knowing full well he wouldn't during the holidays. Do you think I should fully recant my request for a meeting? What about re-framing it as something that I'm willing to do, but only if SHE wants to?
jj33 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Hmmm. I do know you well enough to know you werent marking territory but I think to a W it would feel that way much as you would never intend it to feel that way. Over is over, whether he is seeing someone new is really neither here nor there. The fact is they wont be married any more. If she wants to beleive he is possessed by the devil and will come back to her in due course that is really her issue not yours not his so long as he is being honest with her. And I agree you dont want to be the skirt he hides behind or to go there for a blow up... Its kind of nice he wants to remain in touch with the family and yes of course that would mean that you as a couple would have a relationship with them. Out and out recanting may be tricky.I like your idea of reframing. What if you said - You know I think its great that you want to remain in touch with her family and when she/they are ready it would be great to meet them for coffee/drinks whatever but that you dont want to bulldoze her befor she is ready to meet you. So that you make it a sort of social thing that you are participating in with him. But you are making it clear that you are NOT interseted in participating in an ambush e.g. where you show up to get the mail or whatever and the W is shaking with anger and hurt while smiling and saying how nice to meet you... How does that feel?
Author wildsoul Posted January 6, 2009 Author Posted January 6, 2009 Out and out recanting may be tricky.I like your idea of reframing. What if you said - You know I think its great that you want to remain in touch with her family and when she/they are ready it would be great to meet them for coffee/drinks whatever but that you dont want to bulldoze her befor she is ready to meet you. So that you make it a sort of social thing that you are participating in with him. But you are making it clear that you are NOT interseted in participating in an ambush. Very diplomatic! It feels "light" and not "heavy." Perfect!
jj33 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Im glad I think its a much better way for you to go. And again didnt want to take away at all from all the progress you have made together. Much much further along than you were at Thanksgiving. A great start to the new year!
frannie Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 WS, I would say that if you take away all the assumed drama of the BW/OW thing, and just think of socialising in general, then it's not particularly unusual for the new partner to meet the old, assuming that the previous partners are on good terms. Yes, there might be a little awkwardness, perhaps, but if everyone is an adult and more importantly, if they've all accepted and are happy with the situation, then I don't see a problem. I live with one of my exes, and he's met my new boyfriends, and I've met the girlfriends he's had since we've split, and its all been very amicable, because it's over between us. We've all socialised more than once. I think that when there are so many instances of MM and MW taking on extra partners without informing their new partners (or their current ones), it makes sense to be doing this when dating if it's the natural thing to do (as in my case, exes sharing a house! but also e.g. if exes are within the same social circle). It also confirms that the potential partner isn't some kind of psycho with no friends, family or past partners In your case, as your partner has said he wants to continue to have connections with his ex and her family, then you should be included in that. I agree with you that him going alone would be bad for your relationship.
Awakening Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 That's all I could think when I read that you may want to meet the wife. You stated that there was no drama right now. IMO this would start it right back up. From what I understand neither one of them has filed for divorce yet. Do you think that this meeting may light a fire under one of them to take the step of filing? I'm just wondering what your true motives are. And what is his motive? Does he think that by introducing you two that it just may make the wife angry enough to file and then he will be off the hook to make a decision? Did either one of you think about how she might feel about meeting the new girlfriend? Put yourself in her position. Do you think she'd welcome this? Please don't think that I'm bashing you although it may sound like it. I have been in your shoes and this just doesn't sound like a good idea at your stage in the relationship. He's not divorced yet and you two are not engaged or in any position at this point to even think about a long term commitment considering he has not yet even filed for divorce. One last thing - he sounds like a true cake eater. He admits it by stating that he wants to keep the wife's family and her in his life for years to come. That may be okay if they had children and the relationship started normally AFTER a divorce but under the circumstances it just gives me the creeps.
Author wildsoul Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 That's all I could think when I read that you may want to meet the wife. You stated that there was no drama right now. IMO this would start it right back up. Thanks for underlining the point about it throwing us back into drama! Good gawd, that's not what I want. Besides, there's probably going to be more naturally-induced drama. Certainly no need to opt in for extra. I think I explained my motivations pretty clearly in my reply to jj33 below, and have already dropped it. Like I said, it was an off-the-cuff idea, not likely to go in a good way. On the cake-eating part of your reply. While I think that he has a "cake-eating" side, I don't think it's fair to apply that negative description to this particular part of the dynamic. He's trying to picture a happy outcome for everyone. THAT'S GOOD. Personally, when my exH and I got divorced, picturing a positive outcome is what made our D go so well! Besides, we all know that the likelihood of his being able to pull off this "we'll all be friends" thing is very slim. Since they DON'T have children, there isn't an obligation for future interactions. My guess is that once she really moves on, she won't want him (and especially us) hanging out with her and her family. Although I have friends that are that liberal, and my own relationship with my xH is easy enough that we could do that, I don't think she will be open-minded. She's super conservative and her religion forbids divorce. I know she shunned her own brother because he's gay. So I don't think she'll be wanting to hang out with us. He's probably in for a let down.
jj33 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Very astute WS. OMG she shunned her own brother.... She may be all smiles and grace when she needs to be but she will NOT be hanging out with a divorcing shameful xH. Its sweet that he likes to think it could be that way and probably makes him feel better about the separation (again whatever he needs to believe to get through it). But if the daughter is that religious, I doubt the parents are going to open him with open arms once the ink is dry on the divorce papers. Its sad but even in the best and most liberal of cases, often people just dont want to go there after they part no matter HOW many times they say oh yes its amicable we will be friends. Your friends sound like rare exceptions
Awakening Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Thanks for not taking offense to my post or the questions regarding your motives. I just find that I sometimes need to examine mine, especially after some of the bonehead decisions I have made in my life. On a side note, my xh are very close and we actually work together. We've spent alot of time together along with our significant others (when we had them) in the past 20 years. However, our relationship evolved in that way because we had a child together, who is now grown. I don't know if it would be the same if we hadn't been raising our daughter.
mytruelove Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 so glad everything is going so well for you WS. hope this year brings you much happiness!!!
jwi71 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 With all this cheer leading going on I feel like a louse posting. Ugh. Well, I read your first paragraph and went "Craptacular, nothing has changed." I am sorry, but exactly when has enough time passed for him to file? Its a farce at this point. We all know she will NEVER file - so what is he waiting for? It sounds like he is a monkey-man: won't let go of one vine until he is certain he has another in his grasp. You CANNOT have a real R with him until he is divorced. Its that simple. Or do you plan on introducing him to your family "as my bf who is married to another woman" Come on WS, you deserve better than this - what YOU want matters too. At what point does "I don't want to hurt her, her family" not hold water any more? How many more weeks and months must pass before he files? Are you prepared to continue for the next few months or years as-is? He MUST choose. And he hasn't. Of course, he can continue to live on his own, see you when it suits him, be alone when it suits him and see his W when it suits him. Where does that leave you? I really hate to bring that up - but its something that simply jumps out at me. I just don't see that anything has really changed. Don't get too hopeful until the judge signs the papers.
jj33 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 jwi71 - I typically agree with you but I hope you are being too conservative here. He didnt file right away and at the time WS had some understanding of why - something about time frames for divorce in her state? I dont recall. But as he separated in October, it seems that January is a fine time for him to file. The holidays are over. W has had time to get used to the fact that they are apart. It is just the first week of Jan. But I would agree if he hasnt filed by end of the month... then there is a problem and someone is stalling... Fine its his life but WS shouldnt sit idly by while he continues the status quo
mytruelove Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 hi WS, i'm so glad things are going so well for you!!! hoping and praying for many many good things for you this year.
Author wildsoul Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 Yep, the paperwork filing is the next big thing. I'm hoping he'll get it going on his own, without me having to put down an ultimatum. I think you know what I mean by "ultimatum." Because no matter how carefully I word a "I'm not going to continue to wait," statement, it's still a defacto ultimatum. I'd like to stay out of his D decison as much as possible, yet taking into account that we ARE a couple now. He's got to move the D forward soon. I'm mulling over some things of my own right now, and don't have a non-negotiable timeline yet. For several reasons, I think that he should be starting to file this month. I'll skip explaining them, but I'm kind of waiting and watching to see if he gets this going on his own. Over the last few weeks, he's been talking a lot about us being married (our wedding, our home, our way of life together.) It's not new for him to be doing that, but for awhile I was cutting those conversations short as they seemed frustrating at best and duplicitous at worst. But something really feels more "real" about it now. It's more than sweet talk. If he wants to get remarried to me, then he's got a lot to do first! It's also worth mentioning that I'm also deciding if he's really the one I want or if I'd do better to open myself up to other possiblities. When we are alone together (and all the time we've been spending has helped me to know) it feels "right." Yet at the same time, we need to go to the next level. I want to start meeting more of his friends/family. We mostly spend time with mine. I'm committed to exclusively dating him right now, but that's as far as our commitment CAN go right now. We can't even be engaged yet. I want the limitations imposed by his status of being separated but not divorced removed, so we can decide how committed we want to be based on US, not his circumstances.
jwi71 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I want the limitations imposed by his status of being separated but not divorced removed, so we can decide how committed we want to be based on US, not his circumstances. :D:D:D I am ecstatic to read that! Here's a bouncing bunny that proves it: And maybe I was being too conservative - more afraid you were "lost" in the euphoria of the moment than anything else. OK...another bouncing bunny, or two: :bunny:
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