lightning spades Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 Hey guys, I've been lurking on these forums for awhile now and this is gonna be my first post, woo hoo! Anyway, I was wondering if any of you guys have read "The Game" by Neil Strauss? It's a really fascinating read about how one antisocial guy who went through college without sleeping with a single woman transformed into a pick up artist who was literally hooking up with supermodels on a regular basis just on his charisma alone. If anyone has seen "The Pick Up Artist" on VH1, the contract for that show supposedly came after Strauss exposed the existence of the pick up community in New York Times article. One of my friends introduced me to what they call social dynamics, and I was really skeptical at first, since the prevalent view in society is that confidence and charm is something that you're born with, not learned, and these guys are all saying that that's wrong. But I've seen some people take up workshops under some of the big name "pick up artists" like Mystery, and they literally turned into different people right before my eyes. Anyway, I'm just beginning to explore this world right now, which I didn't even know existed a year ago, and I was wondering if any of ya'll have any experience with social dynamics or people who practice it? I would love to have some people to talk about it with.
kashmir Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I've looked into it and I've read some of the game. While some of the PUA stuff kinda lame, I think its main purpose is to better guys who just aren't naturals with women. I see it this way - women are taught how to better their appearance and personality to attract men. They learn this early on, while guys still think girls are icky and are too busy obsessing over sports or bikes or something to give even a thought to girls. Then guys hit puberty and they suddenly realize that they want girls. The ones that are fit and handsome early on pick it up naturally, since girls gravitate around them from the very beginning and they automatically grow up with confidence. The others need to learn it at some later point. PUA helps them do that.
RichGuy Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 It's a good inspirational book if nothing else. Read, go out to the field, practice it. It's not a silver bullet, but it gets guys a good place to start thinking about how to improve themselves. The mistake I see a lot of newbies make is that they think that whatever PUA method du jour can get them laid, even if they are unemployed, have no car, live with their mom, and haven't seen a bathtub in a while, let alone a gym.
tanbark813 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 There is some useful info in that book both in terms of what to do and what not to do. If nothing else it's an entertaining read. The thing I've found most funny recently is that some women will blast PUA techniques but during a "Dating Coach" segment on a morning show recently where they helped out a woman who couldn't find a date they coached her and the things they taught her to do were EXACTLY the same as some pick-up techniques prescribed for men.
confused_2008 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Okay, dumb question, but... If I'm a really shy guy who has no pick up skills, but feels like it's better to be oneself than try to become someone you're not with this stuff, will I gain anything from reading this book? I mean, is it possible to read this and think, hmm, there's no way I could possibly do this stuff, and actually feel worse about myself because this book says "this is what you HAVE to do to become successful." Like I've read stuff on askmen.com or whatever as a result of google searches, and frankly, that alpha male crap seems like a bunch of bull to me. I would rather be myself and get with less women than play this game and reap the rewards because ultimately, the front needs to come down eventually.
tanbark813 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 This is true: frankly, that alpha male crap seems like a bunch of bull to me ...because this is true: I'm a really shy guy who has no pick up skills The point of PUA or other pick-up stuff isn't to be someone you're not. Maybe initially, but the point of those techniques is so that you always have something to say or do. A common problem with approaching women for men is they freeze up, have nothing to say, stutter a little, and walk back to their seat defeated. No woman is going to fall in love with you because you played a stupid word game on her or teased her. You have those things in your back pocket so that you'll be less worried about going up to a woman and striking up a conversation. They're designed to help you feel more comfortable and confident and eventually you get to the point you no longer need them. It's like training wheels. The point of the PUA stuff isn't to be someone you're not, it's to improve who you are and help you be able to be you around someone new, namely a woman you're interested in. In short, yes, reading the book can still help you.
monkey00 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 My ex-roomie had a copy of the book and I skimmed it. The PUA community has been around for years underground and online, but only as of recent has people like Neil Strauss and Mystery, etc have gone public with it as a means of turning it into a profit. The book is probably inspirational as is "The Secret". At the end of the day it's more on you being yourself. The examples in The Game might have worked for Neil, but it isn't going to work for everyone. You have to find your own approach with the ladies. While they say charm/charisma is innate, it's very possible to learn it..you just have to understand the workings of people and how to portray confidence through body language.
betterthandead Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 It uses tactics that salesman and con artists alike know naturally. I would definitely read it up and study it, but not practice exactly, but it helps make you aware of the social dynamics when it comes to socializing with women you may be interested in. Keep in mind that your face and appearance weighs a lot more than verbal tactics. I saw he Pick Up Artist. Remember that fat guy Joe whatever his name was. Come on, most of the women just saw him as entertainment teddy bear, not someone they'd want as a boyfriend. And to be honest: Women are not always honest with their intentions when they get into a relationship with a guy. I caught a woman earlier today looking at me and turning her head looking at me while she was holding hands with this chubby nice guy. Sometimes a woman will settle because "he's safe" or "he offers some genetic variety." Kinda like how some men date women who are less attractive or have issues up a couple pages long. **** that, I'd rather go for a woman who sexually does it for me, nice face, nice body decent personality.
Taramere Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I've read it. Not because I'm planning to pick other women up in my old age, but from the spirit of curiosity with which I'm sure many men read The Rules. I've read the Rules too, and I think men got a far better deal with The Game. It's funnier, smarter and I think it encourages a level of inner contemplation in the way that The Rules didn't (the latter being all about how women should present themselves to men, rather than how they might actually become happier and more confident people). I skimmed it rather than reading diligently from start to finish. The general impression I got was that rather than being a How-To book, it was a string of anecdotes about about Neil Strauss and his fellow PUAs, with advice inserted into chapters to lend it the air of a manual/instruction book. I tend to agree with Tanbark. The usual boy meets girl setting is a party or a nightclub. These are stressful places for shy people, and a book like The Game seems designed to give men pointers on how to make the business of meeting women in those settings less stressful. More conducive to conversations leading somewhere, rather than being a nightmare of cliches and awkward pauses. I would think that when men get too embroiled in the whole "picking up women is an art....who's the best? Strauss, Mystery or....Me maybe??" thing, it becomes a bit nerdish. That came out in the book too, I thought. Although it purported to be about picking up women, a lot of it seemed to deal more in relationships between men. Some of it being about men posturing for alpha position, a lot of it (I thought) stemming from the genuine fascination men have for the character and psychological make-up of other men. In some ways, it's as though "meeting women" is just a convenient topic for a book that's really about men on men. Who they admire and want to be, who they're afraid of becoming (eg Strauss on Mystery when the latter's going through one of his narcissistic breakdowns). Who plays fair, who doesn't -and is therefore alienated by the PU community for not being one of the guys (Tyler Durden, who won't hesitate to shaft friends in order to get to the women he wants). It's like listening at the door of the men's locker room and realising that, contrary to popular belief, they're not talking about women at all. Mostly they're gazing at their own navels, and at other men's navels with the odd sprig of advice about talking to women "like she's your little sister" thrown in there.
Author lightning spades Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 Okay, dumb question, but... If I'm a really shy guy who has no pick up skills, but feels like it's better to be oneself than try to become someone you're not with this stuff, will I gain anything from reading this book? I mean, is it possible to read this and think, hmm, there's no way I could possibly do this stuff, and actually feel worse about myself because this book says "this is what you HAVE to do to become successful." Like I've read stuff on askmen.com or whatever as a result of google searches, and frankly, that alpha male crap seems like a bunch of bull to me. I would rather be myself and get with less women than play this game and reap the rewards because ultimately, the front needs to come down eventually. It's actually kinda funny because a lot of the original pick up artists used routines and stuff to get girls interested in them, but ever since Strauss blew the lid on the underground community with his book and now pick up is everywhere, the routines don't always work anymore, especially in places like NYC. I met one dude who told me about how he tried to run lines on a girl at a night club and he got shut out because she's heard the same lines from two other guys that same night. Pick up is evolving, and people are turning more and more towards what they call natural game. I recently got a chance to spend some time with a few cool people who teach it for a living, and it's way different from the techniques Strauss talks about in his book. Instead of routines, you develop your conversation skills and storytelling abilities. Instead of faking confidence, you challenge and overcome your insecurities so you can project real confidence. Instead of leading by out-alpha-ing other guys, you lead by making everyone around you feel good about themselves. Anyways if you think you might possibly want to look into natural game, lemme know and I can send you some material I got (contact: [email protected]). Taramere is right, Strauss's book isn't a how-to manual, but there's a lot of instructional stuff out there for free if you know where to look. Some people pay good money to dating companies to teach them this stuff, but I think that you should figure out whether or not this is something you wanna get into before you whip out your wallet. I've spoken to some graduates of these "boot camps" though, and they all say that it was worth it.
undecadit Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 oh yeah, ive been to one of the boot camps (got it half off through a connection) and it was definitely worth it. the benefit of a boot camp as opposed to reading a book is that you actually have someone who's there to tell you what mistakes you're making. some of them are rip offs though, so make sure you talk to someone who's done it before before you sign up.
kashmir Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 This is an informercial. people. I don't know about that. If it is, then it's still informative and helpful and isn't just spam to sell a product. I while ago I responded to a guy who made a similar post like this. He sent me a full ebook of some PUA for free, and no virus either. Some guys just like spreading the info.
Author lightning spades Posted January 8, 2009 Author Posted January 8, 2009 Haha, nope, this ain't an infomercial. If you don't believe me, shoot me an e-mail and I'll send you tons of free stuff. The pick-up community is pretty tight knit, and most of the guys in there want to see it spread because this stuff changes lives. I used to have tons of social anxiety as a kid. It sucked balls. I grew out of it eventually, but some people never do, because they don't know how, and this shows you how. It's kinda like therapy, in a way, except in therapy all you do is sit there and talk, and talk never changes anything. You don't get results until you take action.
RichGuy Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 I emailed lightningspades Wednesday morning, and I haven't received sh*t yet.... Come on, lightningspades, stop the infomercial already!
Author lightning spades Posted January 8, 2009 Author Posted January 8, 2009 dude check your email, i just sent you one right now
wickenhunter Posted January 8, 2009 Posted January 8, 2009 Hey can you send me some stuff too? i've always wanted to get into social dynamics but i never knew how. email = [email protected]. thanks in advance!
Author lightning spades Posted January 9, 2009 Author Posted January 9, 2009 Whoa, I'm getting like tons of requests for stuff. I think it's great though. I'll hook ya'll up, but you gotta promise to come back and post about your thoughts/ideas/experiences. That's why I created this thread in the first place, so we can bounce ideas off each other and get a discussion going.
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