Mio Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Mio, you'll notice on SI that the WS forum is limited to folks that are trying to stop or have stopped cheating. And, other WS's do come down pretty hard on those that backslide or try to justify the cheating. On this site, LS, the OM/OW forum seldom has postings from folks that regret cheating. Many are looking for justifications or making inquiries about how to continue or the logistics of maintaining the deception. You'll see plenty of judgement on justifying or backsliding on the SI forum. I got something different out of it. It showed me that, even in a highly structured forum with active moderation, and remorseful WS's, BS's still find their emotions too volatile and are prone to judgment and attack.
Reggie Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 I got something different out of it. It showed me that, even in a highly structured forum with active moderation, and remorseful WS's, BS's still find their emotions too volatile and are prone to judgment and attack. Yes, I see folks taking issue with cheaters that blameshift and continue to abuse their BS's. You know, Mio, there is a load of abuse that goes along with cheating. The gaslighting, picking fights, criticizing, depletion of family funds and other assets is really quite disturbing. Who in their right minds would support that type of cruelty?
Mio Posted January 14, 2009 Posted January 14, 2009 Who in their right minds would support that type of cruelty? A person of infinite compassion
frannie Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 First off, then how is cheating any different than adultery or having an affair? Does the BS give permission in the cases of adultery and affair? The answer to that was in the part of my post you snipped: Actually, I think 'cheating' and 'committing adultery' or even 'having an affair' are different things. I consider cheating to be having sex (or an otherwise 'inappropriate' relationship) with someone other than your partner without their consent or knowledge. I think that it would still be adultery, (and in some circumstances, an affair), if your primary partner knew about the relationship and approved of it, as in for example in poly relationships, or where someone is not interested in sex themselves, but gives permission for their partner to have sex with others. That's still 'having sex outside marriage' (adultery?), but it's not 'cheating'. Cheating is lying about it. If I tell my partner I'm fine with him having sex with another woman, that's still adultery (in the eyes of the law), but he's not 'cheating' on me, since I know about it and condone it. I might even want to watch if I'm that way inclined. It happens, and it's not cheating in the way that him going behind my back and doing it without my knowledge is cheating. Hence my post. Cheating, lying about what you're up to with others, is what causes hurt. It's perfectly possible for someone to not be hurt by their partner having sex with others: swinging, threesomes, marriages of convenience, or even an OW accepting (even grudgingly) that the MM is sleeping with the W. It's when you find out that he was lying about it that causes the pain (imho)
frannie Posted January 15, 2009 Posted January 15, 2009 Mio, you'll notice on SI that the WS forum is limited to folks that are trying to stop or have stopped cheating. And, other WS's do come down pretty hard on those that backslide or try to justify the cheating. On this site, LS, the OM/OW forum seldom has postings from folks that regret cheating. Many are looking for justifications or making inquiries about how to continue or the logistics of maintaining the deception. You'll see plenty of judgement on justifying or backsliding on the SI forum. I think it's good, however, that the WS forum allows WS to request no input from BSs (with the stop sign). It means that IF you're getting a hard time, you're at least getting it from people who have been in your shoes (former WS), and can appreciate what it's like to struggle with giving up the OW, etc. Not only is their advice more realistic and relevant, it's less likely to be coming from a position of hidden pain and anger, and less likely to be condemnatory, since they're all (former)WS together. Plus the advantage on that site is that there are couples there trying to work things out 'together'. And it emphasises the fact that one person's OP is another person's WS; how can you condemn a MOW as lower than a snakes belly when their BS might be posting, and trying to re-make their relationship with a woman they presumably find worthy of love and being a partner? It makes it all too clear that we're all human beings making mistakes and trying to rectify them as best we can.
NoIDidn't Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 A person of infinite compassion Even Jesus didn't display infinite compassion all the time. There were some people that he judged and right harshly. We don't call the people we love 'vipers' or 'blind'.
GreenEyedLady Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 Even Jesus didn't display infinite compassion all the time. There were some people that he judged and right harshly. We don't call the people we love 'vipers' or 'blind'. It is interesting to note that those he did come down on harshly were usually those of the "holier than thou" folks.
NoIDidn't Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 It is interesting to note that those he did come down on harshly were usually those of the "holier than thou" folks. I wouldn't say that. He came down on the religious leaders that made true worship difficult if you didn't do it by their means. While I understand the point you are making, I doubt there are any religious leaders watching the gates and deciding whether or not to allow us to post on LS.
OWoman Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 there is a load of abuse that goes along with cheating. The gaslighting, picking fights, criticizing, depletion of family funds and other assets is really quite disturbing. Who in their right minds would support that type of cruelty? That may well happen in SOME As (though it doesn't in others) but it also happens in SOME Ms. To characterise it as purely a factor of one type of R but not the other is disengenuous.
Reggie Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I think it is heinous behavior in any relationship. But, it is standard operating procedure among WSs, very common.
OWoman Posted January 16, 2009 Posted January 16, 2009 I think it is heinous behavior in any relationship. But, it is standard operating procedure among WSs, very common. In my fMM's M, it was his xW who did that... But then, she was a CS in her previous M, and perhaps she just never got out of the habit.
sadintexas Posted January 24, 2009 Posted January 24, 2009 To answer the original question, I would be shocked if MM was involved with someone other than his wife and myself (just FYI, I'm not in the A anymore). I was told there wasn't really anything going on with the W and him either, but I never got hung up on whether or not there was, because she is his W afterall. She was first, and should have been the only one. Even in an A, I knew THAT. We'd not had discussions of not seeing other people, and I wouldn't have tolerated his insistance on faithfulness to him anyway based on the circumstances. However, based on him telling me that I was the first and only one, I believed that he was not seeing anyone else and would have been surprised if I found out he was. I believe it would have changed my perspective and feelings about him drastically. I think it would have been a dealbreaker for me. Whether or not it is for other people, is up to them. There are individual circumstances surrounding each A that defines it, and in our case we were "in love". With that and other verbal affirmations, I would have found the existence of another AP destructive to my thoughts and feelings of what we had together and would have felt then that he was a player.
White Flower Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 How true. OWs and OMs in most cases do not choose a MM as their partner. And while it is easy to say that they should quit the affair when they discover the MM is married, it is no different at that point in trying to tell anyone in love that they should leave the one they love for whatever given reason. And yes, there actually can be honor among thieves. Even when one cheats on a husband or wife, he or she can still be faithful to someone else. Thank you JamesM. It is always refreshing to know that perspective can be held in the hand of someone who has not participated in 'thievery'. It takes a great mind to understand the bigger picture.
White Flower Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 My first thought was surprise. My second thought was shock. I really understand what you are conveying but I find it ironic. Isn't the entire relationship based on a lie anyway you look at it? One may believe they aren't the one being lied to but someone is being lied to. I can only think of a few exceptions where I could consider an affair relationship as honest or dignified but I do get the point you are making.Yes, and one can take those exceptions and couple them together with life experience, such as a father who left for the OW, and the general belief that a MM/MW can be honest with one and not the other is born. Sorry I took so long to reply; I was away taking care of a loved one.
Lizzie60 Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Wow. long thread.. I haven't read this one.. I was on vacations. I honestly think that MOST MM DON'T have multiple affairs.. that's why I'm not too concerned.. they can hardly manage to have one.. It's a lot of work to find the time (place is not an issue), to make sure there are no 'traces' etc..
awkward Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 Yes, and one can take those exceptions and couple them together with life experience, such as a father who left for the OW, and the general belief that a MM/MW can be honest with one and not the other is born. Sorry I took so long to reply; I was away taking care of a loved one. I hope your loved one is well.
Virgo1982 Posted February 15, 2009 Posted February 15, 2009 I imagine this is one of the most fundamental problems with cheating, beside the immorality: How does one trust someone that has already demonstrated that he or she cannot be trusted. We can make distinctions, as Lavendar is doing. But, when you get right down to it, it is right there in front of you. You know your partner is a cheater. But, I suspect we all feel that it will be different with us. Well I guess everyone in reconciliation should give up...
Reggie Posted February 16, 2009 Posted February 16, 2009 Well I guess everyone in reconciliation should give up... Might not be a bad idea. It rarely works.
White Flower Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 I hope your loved one is well.Thank you, awkward, he is in a better place now.
White Flower Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Wow. long thread.. I haven't read this one.. I was on vacations. I honestly think that MOST MM DON'T have multiple affairs.. that's why I'm not too concerned.. they can hardly manage to have one.. It's a lot of work to find the time (place is not an issue), to make sure there are no 'traces' etc..They can if they've got the ego, desire, and many accomplices. Also, they need a W who enjoys burying her head in the sand. This usually means there is a nice retirement and lifestyle...
Lizzie60 Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 They can if they've got the ego, desire, and many accomplices. Also, they need a W who enjoys burying her head in the sand. This usually means there is a nice retirement and lifestyle... Of course they can.. and some women actually prefer to bury their head in the sand.. but, IMO, in general.. they have one A at a time.. not multiple.. I was reading that a very large percentage of men cheat and their W has no clue.. never ... very few get caught .. only about 2%.. then a lot who get caught can actually talk their W into believing it's not their fault.. it's either the OW or the W herself.. and some will deny the whole A and the W will believe him.
White Flower Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Of course they can.. and some women actually prefer to bury their head in the sand.. but, IMO, in general.. they have one A at a time.. not multiple.. I was reading that a very large percentage of men cheat and their W has no clue.. never ... very few get caught .. only about 2%.. then a lot who get caught can actually talk their W into believing it's not their fault.. it's either the OW or the W herself.. and some will deny the whole A and the W will believe him.It is easy to get them to bury their head in the sand. There is so much at stake. One has to live with so much turmoil and distress if they are going to take back a serial cheater. Just act like nothing happened and you can fake your dignity forever.
Holding-On Posted February 17, 2009 Posted February 17, 2009 Well getting back to the original question... and if this was put more succinctly in this 34 page thread please forgive me, I haven't read it all. I think that if an MM/MW is having an affair with only you, the OP, and you are the only one they have had then you can romantize that it is all about you. You are so special to them that they crossed that line. "love conquers all" etc. On rare occasions this may be true (a handful of 30+ year marriages of OP/MP out there etc). Discovering that a MM/MW has multiple affairs makes it quite clear the affair is all about them and that you are simply being used to fulfill an end.
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