bentnotbroken Posted January 11, 2009 Share Posted January 11, 2009 It still amazes me, that those who call others the moral police, haters, bible thumpers, like to pull out one or two scriptures out of context and and use those to base inappropriate actions on. I am not the moral police, I would have to arrest myself. I am not a hater of people, but I do hate hurtful actions. I am a bible thumper and very that I figured out I needed that bible to help me get through life with as little mess as at possible in this world. The 2 or 3 people who have asked for advice and prayers make it worth anything else that others have to say. There are also those who never post, but maybe needed to hear the what I have to say enough to go investigate for themselves. Link to post Share on other sites
Holding-On Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 It still amazes me, that those who call others the moral police, haters, bible thumpers, like to pull out one or two scriptures out of context and and use those to base inappropriate actions on. I am not the moral police, I would have to arrest myself. I am not a hater of people, but I do hate hurtful actions. I am a bible thumper and very that I figured out I needed that bible to help me get through life with as little mess as at possible in this world. The 2 or 3 people who have asked for advice and prayers make it worth anything else that others have to say. There are also those who never post, but maybe needed to hear the what I have to say enough to go investigate for themselves. Bent, You yourself take the name bible thumper. So if I am trying to get you to see my viewpoint on things it seems natural to utilize scriptures because they are powerful to you. I am agnostic (at best) but clearly you are not. So using scriptures for reference is an attempt to communicate to you in what seems your point of reference in this world. Honestly Jesus was dealing with an adulterer in the passage Mio quoted. I cannot see how that is out of context at all. He said, very clearly, do not judge an adulterer and he also said it was a sin. The New Testament is included, to the best of my knowledge, in the Torah and the Quran so if you are of a western patriachial religion his words would apply. Now you pointing out to me personally that the bible says this is a sin will hold no water as an arguement to sway me at all. So if you were my friend in real life you would not be likely to mention scriptures at all. Does this mean you are suddenly a part time agnostic? No. It simply means you are attempting to speak my language in order to have any influence on me. Link to post Share on other sites
jj33 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 FYI Holding On the New Testament is not included in the Torah or the Quaran. Neither Jews nor Moslems accept Jesus in the same way Christians do. Its kind of like Hindus - they dont think Bhudda was a Bhudda he was just another Hindu who went in another direction. That is part of what is so galling. Not everyone here is Christian and moreover people come to the OW forum because they hope NOT to be judged for their sins, not to have the God Squad tell them where they went wrong. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Bent, You yourself take the name bible thumper. So if I am trying to get you to see my viewpoint on things it seems natural to utilize scriptures because they are powerful to you. I am agnostic (at best) but clearly you are not. So using scriptures for reference is an attempt to communicate to you in what seems your point of reference in this world. Honestly Jesus was dealing with an adulterer in the passage Mio quoted. I cannot see how that is out of context at all. He said, very clearly, do not judge an adulterer and he also said it was a sin. The New Testament is included, to the best of my knowledge, in the Torah and the Quran so if you are of a western patriachial religion his words would apply. Now you pointing out to me personally that the bible says this is a sin will hold no water as an arguement to sway me at all. So if you were my friend in real life you would not be likely to mention scriptures at all. Does this mean you are suddenly a part time agnostic? No. It simply means you are attempting to speak my language in order to have any influence on me. I can only speak from the way I live. If you were my friend in the real world their would be no need for me to speak the scriptures to you because we have already discussed it and come to a workable relationship. I love my friends, I don't always love their actions. And I still want the best for them. I really don't speak any language other than the Lord's, I don't know how. It is in me, it is a part of me. It is why I will pick up a person walking down the highway in the rain. It is why Mr. Messy has been allowed to continue contact with his children(when they choose to). It is why I feel uncomfortable and remorseful when I do what I know is wrong, like cussing my SIL until she cried. What many have failed to add to what Mio said, was that in the book of Corinthians we are told to deal with the our brothers and sisters and lead them away from what is not good in his eyes. Sure most of those people don't want us to try to help, because they don't like the message. Does that mean we aren't supposed to keep trying? Link to post Share on other sites
Holding-On Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 JJ, Thanks. The only holy book I have ever been able to draw any wisdom from was the New Testament. I thought that the Torah and Quran did mention Jesus as some kind of prophet but I did not research it. I can't edit my post at this point so it will just have to stand but thank you for correcting me. Link to post Share on other sites
jj33 Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Bent you certainly mean well and I would say that you are kinder than some of the others and my comments were not directed to you. But people dont come here to be judged for their sins. Plain and simple. Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 FYI Holding On the New Testament is not included in the Torah or the Quaran. Neither Jews nor Moslems accept Jesus in the same way Christians do. Its kind of like Hindus - they dont think Bhudda was a Bhudda he was just another Hindu who went in another direction. That is part of what is so galling. Not everyone here is Christian and moreover people come to the OW forum because they hope NOT to be judged for their sins, not to have the God Squad tell them where they went wrong. Then if it is such a problem for you, why not ignore? It doesn't matter if people here are Christian or not. What is interesting is that they don't want their right to be the op infringed upon, but don't' mind infringing on others rights to live by what they perceive as right. Just my take. I can't speak about what others feel, but I can't judge the person, I have no right. But actions are so wrong, on so many levels other than Christianity, humanity is one. You have seen it yourself. People saying they are praying for ws's leave their families or the horrible spouse. That isn't an action kindness and compassion either. My view is there is little kindness and compassion on the parts of most op, and your view is there is little kindness and compassion on the part of the so called God Squad. That means we won't ever see eye to eye and leave it at that. Link to post Share on other sites
GreenEyedLady Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ok, people. Bent's been around here for awhile. Let's be respectful. Her intent is to help, not hurt. Let's remember that when we respond. No need to pick on anyone. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Get off her back. Bent, I admire your staunch position in regards to your beliefs and your value system. I think that sometimes people feel convicted when they read certain things and they aren't used to that and not sure how to handle it. You bring a different perspective to the forum. GEL Link to post Share on other sites
bentnotbroken Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Ok, people. Bent's been around here for awhile. Let's be respectful. Her intent is to help, not hurt. Let's remember that when we respond. No need to pick on anyone. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. Get off her back. Bent, I admire your staunch position in regards to your beliefs and your value system. I think that sometimes people feel convicted when they read certain things and they aren't used to that and not sure how to handle it. You bring a different perspective to the forum. GEL Thanks for the back up once again. I do understand that everyone is at a higher level of emotion in this forum(and the infidelity too). The assumptions are many on both sides of the issue. I also know that I am not one for the warm fuzzies:p and I know my value system isn't everyone's. If others feel as if I am gunning for them, that couldn't be farther from the truth. But I do appreciate your defense of the not to popular stance or the person taking it. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 But people dont come here to be judged for their sins. Plain and simple. Bingo. If this was the Spirituality board, then yes. But here the OWs and ONs and MMs and MWs come here for support. And a few may come here for advice how to get out because they feel it is wrong. I think if anyone knows me then they know that morally and spiritually I find adultery wrong. And they would know by reading my posts that I do not condone adultery (affairs). While I can give reasons for why someone may choose an affair, I do not say that their choice is right or excusable and justifiable. This does not mean that I cannot come here and give advice while setting that aside. What may happen and does happen is that while receiving advice and feedback (as bent has mentioned), the person might realize the wrongness of his or her situation and change as a result. This will not likely happen when they are treated as scum and second class citizens. Most BSs cannot come here with the correct attitude towards those who are in affairs (and it is understandable) because it is too personal and painful. Does anyone remember what the original topic was? Technically, anyone not in an affair has no business being in this thread (and that includes myself) because they cannot answer the question from experience. My suggestion is that those who have a different discussion from the question originally asked (including myself) take those discussions to a new thread. Not trying to be moderator, but it is common sense. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Not trying to be moderator, but it is common sense. But you would make a darn fine moderator, JamesM! Very well stated post. Link to post Share on other sites
White Flower Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Myusername, Is there an update to your original statement that you had anticipated hearing some bad news about a possible prior or serial cheating? Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 My suggestion is that those who have a different discussion from the question originally asked (including myself) take those discussions to a new thread. Not trying to be moderator, but it is common sense. That's a fair call - we did hijack the thread! I've started a new thread here to continue this discussion: Thread: What Would Jesus Do? Punch on! Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 ... ... ... Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I don't understand where placing responsibility where it belongs can be classified as "villifying." Ah, but then the question becomes...WHERE does the responsibility belong? And then we go off topic again. Good morning, donna. Welcome back to another week! Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The question is very ironic in that it shows the naiveity(sp?) of so many OW or OM. It seems to be standard that these folks seem to think a lying, cheating MM or MW is someone that can be trusted with their hearts. And, of course, the cheating MM or MW has the same question about the OW or OM. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 The question is very ironic in that it shows the naiveity(sp?) of so many OW or OM. It seems to be standard that these folks seem to think a lying, cheating MM or MW is someone that can be trusted with their hearts. And, of course, the cheating MM or MW has the same question about the OW or OM. Again, commenting on the quality or validity of the question does nothing to answer the question. There IS trust in an affair. The question becomes whether both people honor that trust. Thieves have a code of honor. Murders even have a code of honor. So yes, adulterers have a code of honor among themselves. The question here is...what do you do when you think your affair partner has broken that code of honor? Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Again, commenting on the quality or validity of the question does nothing to answer the question. There IS trust in an affair. The question becomes whether both people honor that trust. Thieves have a code of honor. Murders even have a code of honor. So yes, adulterers have a code of honor among themselves. The question here is...what do you do when you think your affair partner has broken that code of honor? Yeah, but they seldom adhere to their code, in my expieirence. And, I've represented a bunch of thieves and a few murderers. These folks are dishonest as heck and one is nuts to trust them. Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Again, commenting on the quality or validity of the question does nothing to answer the question. There IS trust in an affair. The question becomes whether both people honor that trust. Thieves have a code of honor. Murders even have a code of honor. So yes, adulterers have a code of honor among themselves. The question here is...what do you do when you think your affair partner has broken that code of honor? Thieves don't have a "code of honor". There's no "thieves guild" in the real world. Same thing for murderers, for that matter. Unless you're talking about yakuza/triad/mafia/gangs. But there's a huge disconnect between trying to compare a marriage and cheating with organized crime. And here's the other part of the rub...an affair...by its very nature...is built on a foundation of the deception of someone. And its very success is based upon the WS's ability to maintain that deception to someone that he/she was once very very close to. Which makes the concept of trust in an affair even more strained. Inherently, there will be greater trust issues in most relationships started from an affair than one that started under more "normal" conditions. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 And here's the other part of the rub...an affair...by its very nature...is built on a foundation of the deception of someone. And its very success is based upon the WS's ability to maintain that deception to someone that he/she was once very very close to. Which makes the concept of trust in an affair even more strained. Inherently, there will be greater trust issues in most relationships started from an affair than one that started under more "normal" conditions. Agree....agree...agree. However, when any relationship begins even an affair which begins with the foundation of dishonesty, each assumes the other will be honest to him or her. Odd as it sounds, this is the "code of honor" that is in an affair. The question here is....so what do you do when you find that this "trust" that was placed in this person has been broken? I still think it can only be a question answered by someone who has been or is in an affair. Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Learn from your mistakes and NEVER AGAIN get involved with someone based on a foundation of lies and deceit. Beautiful advice...even which WE both can agree. Now the question is...how does one respond when one finds that his or her affair partner is again cheating on him or her? Okay, I can say that one...kick the b**tard to the curb! Myusername, are you still reading this thread? OR have you (rightly) figured it was derailed quite awhile ago? Link to post Share on other sites
Owl Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Agree....agree...agree. However, when any relationship begins even an affair which begins with the foundation of dishonesty, each assumes the other will be honest to him or her. Odd as it sounds, this is the "code of honor" that is in an affair. The question here is....so what do you do when you find that this "trust" that was placed in this person has been broken? I still think it can only be a question answered by someone who has been or is in an affair. Actually, I think it's a question that can only be answered by someone who's been through it...otherwise it's the same as if it were anyone else guessing. Ya don't know what you're gonna do til you get there. Which makes the entire thread a moot point from post #1. Check, please? :) :) Link to post Share on other sites
JamesM Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Which makes the entire thread a moot point from post #1. Check, please? :) :) :lmao: Are we having a kill joy afternoon? Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 YEah, the saying is "there is no honor among thieves." Seems relationships are tough enough without bringing lack of trust into them from the start. Link to post Share on other sites
Mio Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Actually, I think it's a question that can only be answered by someone who's been through it...otherwise it's the same as if it were anyone else guessing. Well said, Owl. Link to post Share on other sites
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