Ten Years Later......

[Untouchable_Fire]

However, they both gave up ten years of their life on this marriage.

He stayed for the sake of their kids, while she probably stayed because she loved him, and continued to build a marriage with him. Would she have continued to stay if he had hammered her on a daily basis about her infidelity?

 

They both gained from this marriage during those 10 years. We don't know why she stayed. I would not go so far as to say she stayed for love. Just as likely it was convenience, or a myriad of other superficial things.

 

How did his wife go ten years without seeing his anger and resentment? Did she spend the ten years trying to make up for her bad choice/decision?

I wonder what the outcome would have been had he told his wife, that he was going to stay until his children got old enough and then leave.

I know what I would have done.

Just think, they both could have moved on and been happy in their respective lives by now.

And......I don't believe for one moment that the kids didn't know that something was off with Mom and Dad.

 

They will move on... and perhaps be happy in new lives. The fact is that when you betray someone else in that way you don't really have the right to demand the other person get over it. All you can do is ask them to try. It seems he did try, and could not make the pain go away. You cannot fault him for that... he did not create the situation.

[Johnny_Little]

You may be right..............

 

However, they both gave up ten years of their life on this marriage.

 

He stayed for the sake of their kids, while she probably stayed because she loved him, and continued to build a marriage with him. Would she have continued to stay if he had hammered her on a daily basis about her infidelity?

 

How did his wife go ten years without seeing his anger and resentment? Did she spend the ten years trying to make up for her bad choice/decision?

 

I wonder what the outcome would have been had he told his wife, that he was going to stay until his children got old enough and then leave.

 

I know what I would have done.

 

Just think, they both could have moved on and been happy in their respective lives by now.

 

And......I don't believe for one moment that the kids didn't know that something was off with Mom and Dad.

 

Kasan -

 

As I stated earlier, my wife knows and has always known my difficulty in this. Please don't think for one second that my decision to leave ten years later was premeditated. It absolutely wasn't. I just hit the wall. It's been ten years and I simply have not been able to let this go. I got to a point where I asked myself, "How much longer do I keep going?" Nobody gave me the insturction manual on that one. On October 12, 2008, I realized that my desire to remain married no longer included a desire to be with my wife. For me, it had become all about staying for the kids. Believe it or not, that's something I could probably do. My kids are certainly worth it.

 

The kids, they were only 4 and 5 when this happened. Their home life has been pretty good in the past tne years. Have my wife and had our share of difficulties in that time? Absolutley. But really no more I think than most married couples do. The kids have been pretty well sheilded.

[JustBreathe]

I don't think it's wise of you to give her everything to keep the peace. What makes you think there wouldn't be any peace if you didn't give her everything? That doesn't make sense.

 

Fair is fair. You don't owe her any more than half of everything. She knows she ruined your marriage. I don't see why she would give you any flack about dividing up the marital assets. She probably wouldn't. Why would she?

 

A fair and equitable distribution of the assets might turn out to be a great comfort when the divorce is all over. If you give her everything then there's one more thing for you to feel resentful over later on down the road.

[Trimmer]

I don't think it's wise of you to give her everything to keep the peace. What makes you think there wouldn't be any peace if you didn't give her everything? That doesn't make sense.

 

Fair is fair. You don't owe her any more than half of everything. She knows she ruined your marriage. I don't see why she would give you any flack about dividing up the marital assets. She probably wouldn't. Why would she?

 

A fair and equitable distribution of the assets might turn out to be a great comfort when the divorce is all over. If you give her everything then there's one more thing for you to feel resentful over later on down the road.

I tend to come down along these same lines. My wife started up with another man before she left me, yet like you, I wanted to avoid a bitter and acrimonious divorce fight. However, while it was important to me to avoid fighting by not trying to take more than the fair and equitable share I was due, it was equally important to me to maintain my personal power and start my journey to rediscovering myself as an individual by not giving away more than the fair and equitable share that she was due.

 

And I'm not talking here about wielding power over her, but just my sense of having power over my own life, in my own individuality. Recognizing that I was a full half of this marriage, and that I deserved to share fairly in its dissolution. Standing up for your part doesn't imply a fight, and it doesn't prevent you from being flexible, and maybe even generous in places. But frankly, while I was reasonable and flexible in the way we divided things up (and so was she, in return) I think that exercising my personal power and prerogative in this way both helped me bolster my own sense of myself as a newly separated individual, and set the tone for an equal and respectful dynamic between us as co-parents.

[angpang]

Well Mr.Little first off if you let your childern know you love them, care for them and make time for them whenever they need you and never bad mouth their mother they won't hate you. They won't even have babies at 16. They might be pissed, but what teenager isn't pissed about everything all ready. Just help make this as easy as you a divorce may be and watch your children will hit their early 20's and get over it.

 

As for your wife cheating if you haven't got over it by now it is time to move on. There really is no point in you putting yourself through the pain of how it makes you feel over and over and her through the pain of knowing that she hurt you and now there is nothing she can do about it. In the long run you both are just going to ended up much more unhappy and even more angry and when your kids are grown and moved out you really won't have anything holding you togeather

 

This I do know divroce isn't easy It may be the hardest the thing you have to do in your life, but I can say this in the end you will be stronger because of this. This will be tough but you have to do what is right for you and your wife and if you think about it. If your wife and you are so happy it may be something your kids notice now and be affecting them with out you even knowing.

[Johnny_Little]

Trying to answer a couple of more questions I may have missed;

 

2sure

 

How does my wife feel about divorce? She seems genuinely upset by it. But she also said this was not all that unexpected. As time passed, she became more hopeful that we would remain together, but the thought that the affair might one day lead to divorce never left her mind. I said this already but my STBXW has always known the difficulty I’ve had and the things I’ve struggled with the past few years.

 

 

Kasan

 

I did ask my wife if she believed I had forgiven her. The question caught her a little off guard. Her answer surprised me a little. She said, “I always hoped you would forgive me. But honestly, deep down, after a couple of years of staying together, I didn’t think you could. I just kept hoping”.

 

 

It’s been helpful reading and thinking about all of the questions and suggestions. Thanks to all who responded.

[child_of_isis]

I don't know if I'm buying it. I think if you were to be truthful to yourself, you would find that you are tired of the M & tired of the W, & you want out.

 

Maybe you are just using the 10 year ago affair to justify wanting out. So in your mind, you will not be the bad guy. You can blame it all on her.

 

Have you met someone?

[Athena]

child of isis -- very interesting! It could well be Johnny has spotted someone worth pursuing, and justified it by the betrayal of his wife ten years ago.

On the other hand, sometimes the damage done by a betrayal is never overcome, and ultimately ends in divorce.

 

It would be good to see a truthful response, if indeed OP has met a worthy woman and wishes to become available...

[Johnny_Little]

I don't know if I'm buying it. I think if you were to be truthful to yourself, you would find that you are tired of the M & tired of the W, & you want out.

 

Maybe you are just using the 10 year ago affair to justify wanting out. So in your mind, you will not be the bad guy. You can blame it all on her.

 

Have you met someone?

 

Wow, I didn’t expect this one; a conspiracy theory.

 

I suppose I can understand a certain amount of skepticism from some given the amount of time that has passed. Unfortunately, this time, your intuition has let you down. I have no ulterior motive. I haven’t met someone else. There’s no one waiting in the wings. There’s no one I want to pursue.

 

It is what it is. I just haven’t been able to get passed the affair. And not just the fact she had an affair. It’s what I heard after one day of recording phone calls to confirm my suspicion. Let me give you some examples and maybe you can understand.

 

I heard my wife and her best friend at the time discussing in great detail what my wife had done the night before when she said she was going to a girlfriends house. How many times she and the OM had sex; where in his apartment they had sex; the positions; the chocolate syrup they used; my wife and her friend were giggling like school girls talking about it.

 

I heard my wife speaking with the OM discussing the previous night. Again recounting what they had done in vivid detail. I heard my wife tell this man she loved him. I heard her leave little school girl messages on his answering machine.

 

I can still hear this stuff in my head. It’s as clear today as it was ten years ago. I can almost recite two odd hours of phone calls verbatim. That, combined with the fact my wife became pregnant with the OM’s child, has made staying married and making it work difficult to say the least.

 

After I posted my story here and read some of the responses, I’ve thought some more about what I’m doing. I think I’ve come to realize something - finally. My marriage really ended ten years ago. But I was stubborn. I didn’t want to fail. The fact is I, along with the marriage, had already failed. I just wasn’t able to accept it.

 

It would have been nice if this hadn’t happened. I think my wife and I would be 20 years into a great marriage. It didn’t work out that way. I wish things had been different. I really don’t want out. I just know now that I can’t stay in.

[LavendarGirl]

After I posted my story here and read some of the responses, I’ve thought some more about what I’m doing. I think I’ve come to realize something - finally. My marriage really ended ten years ago. But I was stubborn. I didn’t want to fail. The fact is I, along with the marriage, had already failed. I just wasn’t able to accept it.

 

It would have been nice if this hadn’t happened. I think my wife and I would be 20 years into a great marriage. It didn’t work out that way. I wish things had been different. I really don’t want out. I just know now that I can’t stay in.

 

Your marriage ended ten years ago but you were too stubborn to admit it. Therefore ten years of going through the motions.

 

Are you sure you have changed, though? You say still that you don't want out. Isn't 10 years of pretending enough?

[QueenVictoria]

How tall are you? Were you raised with your father? Thank you.

[Trimmer]

Wow, I didn’t expect this one; a conspiracy theory.

How tall are you? Were you raised with your father? Thank you.

Sounds like they are checking to see if you might be the second shooter from the grassy knoll in Dallas...

 

 

I can still hear this stuff in my head. It’s as clear today as it was ten years ago. I can almost recite two odd hours of phone calls verbatim. That, combined with the fact my wife became pregnant with the OM’s child, has made staying married and making it work difficult to say the least.

 

After I posted my story here and read some of the responses, I’ve thought some more about what I’m doing. I think I’ve come to realize something - finally. My marriage really ended ten years ago. But I was stubborn. I didn’t want to fail. The fact is I, along with the marriage, had already failed. I just wasn’t able to accept it.

 

JL - I take your story at face value. I can still remember dates and times that things happened during my wife's affair over 13 years ago - it seems the more a given revelation or conversation shocked me and shook my world, the more deeply burned into my memory that scar became.

 

As I said, we also made it 10 years past the affair, "moved on", had kids, etc. but ultimately the damage done - or the pre-existing problems that still went unhealed - brought us down.

 

It would have been nice if this hadn’t happened. I think my wife and I would be 20 years into a great marriage. It didn’t work out that way. I wish things had been different. I really don’t want out. I just know now that I can’t stay in.

I hear you, and I know the feeling. I'm sorry.

[JustBreathe]

I googled "am I ready for divorce" and this is what I found:

 

 

1. If you don't want changes to your finances, lifestyle or traditions then you are not ready for divorce;

2. If you cannot accept your children's sadness and anger then you are not ready for divorce

3. If you cannot accept times of insecurity, fear and the unknown then you are not ready for divorce

4. If you are not willing to let go of your spouse mentally, emotionally and spiritually then you are not ready for divorce.

 

The article is much longer but basically the message was that when you're ready to divorce you basically have no emotional attachment left for your spouse and you just want to move on to a new life. When you feel at peace with your decision, then it's time.

 

I especially have a problem with the second statement - I cannot accept that my kids will be sad and angry. Also No. 1 - I need his money until the kids are out of high school and can get their own jobs. He makes alot more than me. Number 3, not so much, but I've been married 25 years and I do have moments of fear of the unknown once in awhile. No. 4 I got no problems with.

[HappyAtLast]

My ex-wife cheated on me many years ago. I never truly forgave her, it definitely affected the way that I looked at her, felt about her, cared about her. I did however, stay in the marriage until my last child left home. She knew how I felt, my children did not. There was no fighting, no unpleasantness. My children never knew.

 

When I look back, I really do not believe that I regret staying with her. My children had happy childhoods and have grown into fine, accomplished adults with happy marriages. This is not to say that this would not have happened had we divorced, one never knows.

 

The last year of my marriage I allowed myself to get close to someone. A beautiful woman who is now my wife.

 

I understand how you feel but please reconsider giving her "everything." It is a decision that you may someday come to regret and will be unable to undo.

[Reggie]

I can relate to this. I found out about my first wife's serial cheating 15 years ago by coming across soem loose leaf pages she had written about her escapades. I was looking for the checkbook at the time.

The stuff i read is as clear to me today as ever. The terrible things she said to me to justify her affair still play in my head , sometimes.

Once this bell is rung, it does not unring. I think you have a chance at happiness , now, away from her.

[JustBreathe]

I think for some of us, that's just how it is. We never forget and the things they say that cut like a knife stay there, the videos of what they did stay there, in our minds. I wish I was one of those who could just turn it all off, forgive and forget. I must have EverReady batteries in my brain. I can't turn it off. Even after eight years.

 

10YearsLater, to me, you sound too conflicted about leaving her. You might need to become more comfortable with your decision before you make that move. I've heard a counselor can help with this. I don't think that would work for me. I don't have alot of faith in counselors. But it does work for many people, I guess.

[HappyAtLast]

JustBreathe makes a good point.

 

For the record, I was never conflicted about my intention to leave my then-wife. I always knew that I would, and had a pretty good idea of when.

[serial muse]

Wow, I didn’t expect this one; a conspiracy theory.

 

I suppose I can understand a certain amount of skepticism from some given the amount of time that has passed. Unfortunately, this time, your intuition has let you down. I have no ulterior motive. I haven’t met someone else. There’s no one waiting in the wings. There’s no one I want to pursue.

 

It is what it is. I just haven’t been able to get passed the affair. And not just the fact she had an affair. It’s what I heard after one day of recording phone calls to confirm my suspicion. Let me give you some examples and maybe you can understand.

 

I heard my wife and her best friend at the time discussing in great detail what my wife had done the night before when she said she was going to a girlfriends house. How many times she and the OM had sex; where in his apartment they had sex; the positions; the chocolate syrup they used; my wife and her friend were giggling like school girls talking about it.

 

I heard my wife speaking with the OM discussing the previous night. Again recounting what they had done in vivid detail. I heard my wife tell this man she loved him. I heard her leave little school girl messages on his answering machine.

 

I can still hear this stuff in my head. It’s as clear today as it was ten years ago. I can almost recite two odd hours of phone calls verbatim. That, combined with the fact my wife became pregnant with the OM’s child, has made staying married and making it work difficult to say the least.

 

After I posted my story here and read some of the responses, I’ve thought some more about what I’m doing. I think I’ve come to realize something - finally. My marriage really ended ten years ago. But I was stubborn. I didn’t want to fail. The fact is I, along with the marriage, had already failed. I just wasn’t able to accept it.

 

It would have been nice if this hadn’t happened. I think my wife and I would be 20 years into a great marriage. It didn’t work out that way. I wish things had been different. I really don’t want out. I just know now that I can’t stay in.

 

Like Trimmer, I take this at face value, too. Maybe because I can understand how this stuff could just stay with you all this time. I'm sad for you, and to be honest, rather sad for your wife, that it took so long for you to be willing to let go. I see what Kasan is saying about that.

 

But to me it sounds like you are ready to let go, and I guess it takes how long it takes. Hopefully you can move on. Hopefully she will, too - don't get me wrong, nothing justifies an affair, but 10 years is certainly a long time to try to get someone to forgive you. It's interesting that your wife says she knew all along that you hadn't really forgiven her and that she by now had stopped believing you would. Just makes it a little sadder.

 

Don't give her everything; divide it fairly and equitably, as Trimmer says. Don't give yourself any more reason to hold onto resentment. Maybe you can, at last, think of this as making a clean break? If you give up too much, you may find it harder in the long run to come to peace with this decision.

 

It doesn't sound, from the things you've quoted your wife as saying about the divorce here, that she's going to be bitter and angry. She sounds resigned, much like you do. I'm sorry for your pain.

[Trimmer]

10YearsLater, to me, you sound too conflicted about leaving her. You might need to become more comfortable with your decision before you make that move. I've heard a counselor can help with this. I don't think that would work for me. I don't have alot of faith in counselors. But it does work for many people, I guess.

Just a comment about counseling. A counselor doesn't fix you, and if you go in with the expectation that somehow a counselor will open you up like a car hood and then tell you what to do, then, no counseling would probably not work for you, because you'd be sitting there the whole time saying, "Hmmm, when will he tell me what to do...."

 

Counseling worked for me, because I knew I was in search of something, and I was ready to take the primary role in examining myself, but I felt I could use a couple of tools to assist me in that process: an environment focused on the task, and a little guidance along the way.

 

But it was hard work, and an intensely personal process that required me to be candid in front of a third party, and I do understand how that would not work for everyone.

-----------------

 

Back to the original poster, I had one additional thought on the "Give her everything" idea in your property division. I think the possibility has already been suggested that giving everything away could result in your feeling resentful at some time in the future.

 

I want to sharpen that point a little bit by suggesting that you examine yourself very honestly and be sure that you are not planning to do this - perhaps subconsciously - as a way to continue to hold on to your resentment, even as you leave the marriage.

 

In some ways, we come to treasure our pain, our struggles. Understandably, it's a source of pride to have survived something painful, but it can happen that we come to regard the pain itself with pride - look at the load I'm carrying - and we start to identify with it, to let it define us. I'm a betrayed spouse.

 

I'm not accusing you of doing this intentionally, but just consider what your true motivation is before giving everything away. Like other posters, I'm a little concerned that you may resent it later, and even more concerned that you may (again, maybe subconsciously...) actually use it as a mechanism to hold on to your now familiar pain, anger, whatever.

 

If you truly want to move on, to embark on the path to letting go of the pain, don't handicap yourself with something that could be an obstacle to that - even if it's unintentional or subconscious.

 

Part of really healing and letting her go MAY be to forgive her - that will be a choice for you and you don't have to make it now. But "allowing" her to give you what you deserve in the settlement may be an important part of that - for both you and her, frankly.

 

Allowing her to be your equal, and you insisting on being her equal does not have to translate to a fight. Don't treat your property settlement in terms of "giving" and "taking" things from each other. Treat it as a division between equals, and I truly believe you will walk away with a lighter burden.

[Athena]

Johnny Little, I hear you. I fully understand.