Johnny_Little Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 May 21, 1998. The day I confirmed my wife was having an affair. October 12, 2008. I told my wife I no longer wanted to be married. Yep, we made a little over ten years. In those ten years, I thought about divorce more times than I can count. But my desire that my children grow up with their father always seem to outweigh my desire to leave my marriage. No matter how mad or hurt I got, I couldn’t make myself leave. I just couldn’t put my kids through what divorce can bring. As time passed and my children grew, they’re now both in high school, I find myself less and less willing to forgive. I know what most of you are saying; its ten years ago you’ve made it this far, get over it. Well dammit I can’t. It seems like the longer I stay, the more angry I get when something reminds me of the affair. Finding out about the affair wasn’t hard. The wife isn’t a very good liar and Radio Shack made a decent voice activated recording device (cheaper than a PI). She and good friend at the time, who screwed around on her husband more than once too, talked about everything. One day of taping phone calls was enough. I even got all of the explicit details of the night before when my wife was supposed to be at a girlfriends place. What they ate for dinner, how many times they did it, what positions, the chocolate syrup they used, I mean all of it. And it only got better. Shortly after I knew for certain she was screwing around on me, I found out my wife was pregnant. And no, it wasn’t mine. Who do you think went with her and paid for terminating the pregnancy? There was no way we could have avoided divorce at the time had she carried the pregnancy to full term. NO WAY. Even now, ten years on, thinking and writing about it makes all of those feelings just about a fresh as they were ten years ago. Sure, we / I have been to 2 different marriage counselors at different times since. Neither were very much help. I love my kids. Like most parents, I would do absolutely anything for them. I hate what my decision may mean for them. None of this is their fault. Knowing a little about the statistics of kids of divorced parents (trouble with grades, poor behavior in school, increased chance of teen pregnancy, etc.. not that this happens to all, but the stats do show a significant increase) I’m still a little apprehensive about the choice I’ve finally made. The upside is I’ve basically taken the fight out of any divorce. I’ve simply told my wife she can have everything. All I must have is joint custody of the kids. Other than that, there’s simply nothing to fight over. But that doesn’t mean I’m entirely happy with my decision. No matter what I do, it feels a lot like a no win. I thought I would put this out there just to see if maybe there’s something I haven’t thought about. I’m really just looking to see what opinions are out there. I would appreciate any thoughtful comments.
malibustacydoll Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Was everything else good in your marriage except not getting over the affair? IE was there a lot of fighting around the kids and an atmosphere to where they knew there were issues between you and your wife? I am only 20 and my parents divorced when I was around 13/14. My mom had an affair on my dad and I was the one who discovered it. I told my dad and my dad, brother and I collected whatever evidence we could on it. My dad ended up telling my mom that if she didn't cut off all contact with the guy that it was over and she had to get out. She left days later. My parents always had probelms though and I wish they would have divorced earlier. I know a lot of parents want to "stay together for the kids", but kids are smarter than you think. If there is obvious tension/yelling/fighting it is not a good place for children. Most kids would rather have their parents be divorced and happy separate than fighting when they are together. On another note, if the only thing causing this divorce is the affair then I can also understand that. I do not think I could ever forgive someone if they cheat on me regardless of the situation.
Bryanp Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I am sorry for what you are going through. I think you are making a big mistake telling your wife she can have everything. Why should she be rewarded for her humiliating and betraying behavior? I can never understand how a wife not only screws around on her husband but does not even take precautions from getting pregnant and putting their spouse at risk for STD's. Was she remorseful or just remorseful that she got caught? Do you think her attitude would have been the same as yours if the roles had been reversed? Why should you go into poverty now? This is insane. See a lawyer and protect your interests. I hope you told your childrent why you are doing this or otherwise they will think you are walking away from their mother for no reason. Please see a lawyer and protect yourself. I wish you luck.
mark982 Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 if you've been debating over leaving all these yrs. your hearts not in the marriage. everyone deserves to be happy. you sound as if you're not. but i sure as heck wouldn't give her everything.
Ronni_W Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I agree with Mark, also about splitting the financial/material stuff...but it does depend on your reasons and goals. It won't make you "morally superior" but if it will somehow make life easier for the kids, then I can see the case for giving her a larger share than what might be required under law. But giving all of it just puts you at risk of not being able to provide a better quality of basic "stuff" for your kids when they are in your care -- type of housing, furnishings, food, entertainment, child counseling...on and on. Perhaps discuss with your divorce lawyer and/or financial planner before signing any related documents. It sounds as if you are doing the best thing that you can, for yourself...and for your children, most likely. They do deserve two happy parents, and a peaceful 'energy' in which to grow and develop. IMO, your total peace and happiness would be dependent on working through such issues as anger, unforgiveness, inability to trust, resentment of 10 'wasted' years, etc. But you can (or not) do that in your own time. Good luck.
Wibble Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 Yup, I feel your pain buddy. For me, I managed 3 years, and then I figured that the kids were old enough that I could stop sacrificing my life to try and make theirs better. Some days I resent the 21 years I spent with someone who counted it for nothing, others I am thankful that at least I have 3 beautiful sons to show for all the grief. In any event, my life has descended into a world of hurt, but I now have an inner tranquility that was entirely missing before. Affairs suck.
Reggie Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I admire your effort to get past it. Most folks don't and you gave it everything you could. It's just too big a betrayal for most people to get beyond and you should not feel at all bad about having to end it. Don't let guilt over having to end this marriage make you give up more than what the law calls for in a divorce. You have nothing to be guilty about. Please , fight for what is rightfully yours. If your kids are old enough, they will be able to decide who they want to live with. Don't go broke or become destitute due to guilt.
Ty Wanabu Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 DAMN!!! I give you a truck load of credit for hanging in there for ten years!!! And to have to transport and PAY to terminate the pregnancy!!! Dude, I wouldn't have lasted ten minutes! By no means should you feel guilty about what you are about to do. I think most men would've dissolved the marriage long before you did. Your kids being older now will understand. If not now then certainly in the future. And I doubt very much they will hold anything against you If they know the truth. BTW. Do your kids know the truth?
signedin2008 Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 How was your wife as a wife in the past ten years? Was she remorseful about her cheating? What has she done to make it up to you? How is she going to take it when you tell her that you want a divorce?
Author Johnny_Little Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 Answering some questions to further the discussion futurecjprof No, no fighting. The kids rarely see or hear me raise my voice. It’s just not my style. As far as the marriage being “good” except for getting over the affair, I suppose that’s relative. I mean I was able to cope better as time went by, but there are things I simply couldn’t bring myself to say or do. Bryanp Was she remorseful? At times, she has been. Directly after she got busted, I think she was more resentful than remorseful. That lasted a three or four months. She has pretty much done everything I’ve asked of her since. And yes, to be fair, she has expressed remorse. Ty Wanabu Nope. The kids know nothing. And it’s likely they won’t anytime soon. They’re only 14 and 15. They don’t need to know that stuff. If my soon to be ex-wife wants to tell them one day, she can. If she doesn’t, then maybe a few years from now I’ll tell them the real reason their parents got divorced. For now, we’ll just give them the “parents grew apart thing” or something like that when we speak with them about our impending divorce. signedin2008 She’s been ….ok the past ten years. Honestly, I don’t know that there is anything she could do to “make it up” to me. I can’t say she’s not tried. She has. I’ll give her that. But hearing what I heard on the recorded phone conversation; it’s real easy to know what someone truly thinks when they don’t know you’re listening. I’ve never been able to get past that. As far as letting her have everything, it’s really not a big deal. I’m keeping my personal stuff. But the house, furniture, yatta, yatta, it’s just not worth fighting over. It’s just stuff. I won’t be relegated to the poor house. And by telling her she can have it, I’ve left her with nothing to fight about. Even if she gets mad or thinks she wants to be vindictive, there’s nothing for her to try and take me for and know reason this should become nasty. Besides, my guess is she’s going to want to get rid of some of the furniture anyway and I’ll end up with it. Hopefully, this will make the divorce amicable. In the end, I just never got over it. Not that the whole world knows what happened; obviously some family and friends know a little of what went down. Much like some of you have said, they don’t know how I lasted a day let alone ten years. Frankly, sometimes I don’t know either. I was blindsided. To make matters worse, I heard more detail than I probably wanted to know. Oh yeah, then there was that whole pregnancy thing. It’s a giant poop sandwich and I had to eat more than my share. Well, I’m full. The next time I eat, I think I want something other than poop sandwich. I made it ten years and was able to give my kids a home with 2 parents and a relatively normal home life. Hopefully, that will count for something. Now we start the fun / awkward part. We get to tell our children and family. Not looking forward to any of that. My kids really don’t have a clue and I know this is going to hurt. I appreciate all of the input. If anyone has any other thoughts or considerations, please share. Thanks.
Reggie Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Again, I think you did an amazing job holding it together for your kids all these years. It was a hell of a sacrifice based on what you heard on the phone. I've done some reading on this area of men staying after the wife's betrayal. One researcher interviewed men who had decided to stay and got their thoughts on it. She found that almost unanimously, the men that stayed with a wife that cheated regretted it after a year or two. They just never got over it. Good luck. Hopefully, life wii be more peaceful and fulfilling in the future for you.
ConceptVBS Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 I would explain to the kids as much as possible about the affair when you start your separation. If you don't, the kids will resent you and side with your future ex-wife. It will make you look like bad. You didn't do anything wrong, it was your wife who started it. Let her take all the blame. Keep your honor.
65tr6 Posted January 6, 2009 Posted January 6, 2009 She’s been ….ok the past ten years. Honestly, I don’t know that there is anything she could do to “make it up” to me. I can’t say she’s not tried. She has. I’ll give her that. But hearing what I heard on the recorded phone conversation; it’s real easy to know what someone truly thinks when they don’t know you’re listening. I’ve never been able to get past that. . First of all, it is remarkable you tried it for 10 years before giving up. Hats off to you. So the bottom line is you could never get past the affair. Did you ever forgive her for what she did to you ? If not, in a way, did you carry that resentment all along ? Did she fall in love with you in the last 10 years given how much support and sacrifices you have made for her ? Do you still love her ? I know you said your wife tried but the question is did she try hard enough to win your marriage back ?
Standbyou Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 If only for kids. You an divorced her 10 years ago, and just stay together sometimes. Or, stay together without marriage papaer. then its good for you and her both has chance(just Chance) to get someone else to know and had better life. No need stay in marriage only for kids. Its possible cause 10 years ago, Your wife still attractive ,so its reason you stay with her besides kids? and 10 years later. you dont feel she has any attraction to you any more? And she is older and not attractive than before. then you feel kind of reverange to dumped her after 10 years? 14,15 years old kids are more sensitive than 4,5 years old. some of them wont get less hurt than that cause they are teen age. belive me. So, Really stay so suffer marriage just only,only for kids?
porter218 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Its possible cause 10 years ago, Your wife still attractive ,so its reason you stay with her besides kids? and 10 years later. you dont feel she has any attraction to you any more? And she is older and not attractive than before. then you feel kind of reverange to dumped her after 10 years? 14,15 years old kids are more sensitive than 4,5 years old. some of them wont get less hurt than that cause they are teen age. belive me. So, Really stay so suffer marriage just only,only for kids? OHHHH...wow! Excellent point!!
Standbyou Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 If for the kids side, For 4,5 years old kids ,they are more easy forget pain from their father leave them and thoughtless than the teenage kids.and accept new family. but for their father, they will feel more pain that his kids far away from him and give less affection to their natural father instead of give some or even more affection to their step father.Did you worry about it? I guess for anyone normally always worry about it.but for teenage kids, they almost impossible can close to their step father than their natural father.no way replaced for teen age kids.and from another point,its kind of hard work take care of the kids by father if kids go with father, cause you know,take care of kids mostly be handeled by woman. If only only only for kids. its part of reasons?.
Trimmer Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I would explain to the kids as much as possible about the affair when you start your separation. If you don't, the kids will resent you and side with your future ex-wife. It will make you look like bad. You didn't do anything wrong, it was your wife who started it. Let her take all the blame. Keep your honor. Bulls**t, Bulls**t, Bulls**t. I'm sorry but no, this is not right. DO NOT use the kids as leverage, DO NOT "make your case" with them, DO NOT lay out the details of the affair as you know them, DO NOT drag them into the middle of it. DO NOT put them in a position of taking sides, which is what this advice is leading up to. If you want to "keep your honor", do it by working to continue to be a good parent - fighting to get your kids on "your side" is not honorable. The best possibility for their emotional safety is if you and your STBXW can find a way to separate your spousal issues from your need to continue to be parents. If you want "honor", then what could be more honorable than to continue to be a supportive parent in spite of what has happened in your spousal relationship? Not to say that you have to roll over and be a quiet little mouse. You still need to work this all out - you have a new journey ahead of you, and you may well pass through anger and everything else under the sun. You deserve to feel and work through this; I'm not saying you have to put it all away, swallow it down, stuff it all into a corner and forget about it. You now have the burden and the amazing gift of rediscovering yourself as an individual, apart from your marriage and your role as husband. My wife had an affair and we also split up 10 years afterward; I'm now 3 years past the split and it's been a great journey for me. But, when it comes to your kids, in your role as parent, I'm a firm believer in taking one for the team. Your kids don't need to "side" with anyone, and in spite of a looming divorce, it will be your continuing job as parents to create an environment for them in which they don't have to pick sides. They don't want to pick sides, and it puts them in a horrible state of dissonance and anxiety to be forced to do that - even indirectly - by one or the other parent. What they will need is to know that they are emotionally safe, that they will be taken care of, and that they will continue to be loved and supported by both parents. With this foundation, they can continue through their developmental stages normally. If you can do this, if you have the strength and courage to establish a working, parental relationship with your STBXW, one that separates out your spousal issues so that you can do your best as parents for your kids, then this gives your kids a very good shot at coming through it relatively unscathed. You want honor? That's where mine comes from.
In Like Flynn Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Sad thing is by giving her everything and only getting joint custody...which at their ages teens he would have gotten anyway.....it just rewards her behavior. I don't know if we are talking about alot of equity in the house but that just allows the OM a place to live. At least get the kind of custody where you don't have to pay child support!!
2sure Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I have a question. My H cheated on me, D day was 1.5 yrs ago. I feel I have forgiven him and truly believe we are well into recovery. The remaining issue is my fear that I will still think about it 10 years from now. But to be honest, I'm confident. But thats me. I could say that you have hung onto this way to long, that the problem lies within you since you cant forgive - but I wont because Thats You. Would you say that you would have liked to put it behind but have simply been unable to? Thats ok too. Recovery is equal parts remore and forgiveness. Have to have both. If one partner is not emotionally able to be sincere, it wont work. Now, to my real question. I'm trying to put myself in your wife's shoes. She created a tragedy, not a mere mistake - this I get. But to be honest, to be UNforgiven for 10 years would make me resentful. I couldnt apologize for 10 years. And you sound like you get that. (In fact, I'd have wanted a divorce long before that.) How does your wife feel about divorce - about you and her , not the kids, the house, money etc. About the termination of your relationship?
LavendarGirl Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Hi JohnnyL, Well, ten years after the fact. You are a patient man, that's for sure. If, after 10 years, the marriage doesn't feel like it's gotten back on track, it's probably a safe bet that you've invested the time, at least, in trying to mend things. However, if your W (or if both of you) have been harboring resentment, it's just not going to work. You pick your battles, and if it's not important to you to keep 50 % share of the material assets (house, furniture, stuff), then I agree to go ahead and give her lion's share. It is one less thing to fight about, and maintaining civility in a divorce goes a long way. Surely she will understand why you want to divorce her. Though there might be some dynamics where she fights you about it, especially if there are power issues or if she has financial insecurity over her future being a divorced mother. Just brace yourself! Good luck, it does sound like the best thing for you. After all, you deserve happiness.
Kasan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I have thought about this thread for a couple of days and didn't respond, because I wanted to see what others would answer back to you. So here is what I think. I wonder if you have been as dishonest with your wife as she has been with you? The affair was a terrible thing that she did to you. But........you stayed with her for an additional ten years. I'm sure in those ten years, you told her that you loved her, had some very good times together, celebrated many milestones with her, and functioned as a married couple, parenting your children. Would she have believed that you had forgiven her? How has your marriage been since discovery day? Has she been a good wife and mother? Has she given you any reason to doubt her? And....I wonder how you managed to live with her an additional ten years harboring such anger and resentment towards her. This is where I wonder about your dishonesty in the marriage. This is a tragedy for the both of you IMO. All those wasted years.
Author Johnny_Little Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 I have thought about this thread for a couple of days and didn't respond, because I wanted to see what others would answer back to you. So here is what I think. I wonder if you have been as dishonest with your wife as she has been with you? The affair was a terrible thing that she did to you. But........you stayed with her for an additional ten years. I'm sure in those ten years, you told her that you loved her, had some very good times together, celebrated many milestones with her, and functioned as a married couple, parenting your children. Would she have believed that you had forgiven her? How has your marriage been since discovery day? Has she been a good wife and mother? Has she given you any reason to doubt her? And....I wonder how you managed to live with her an additional ten years harboring such anger and resentment towards her. This is where I wonder about your dishonesty in the marriage. This is a tragedy for the both of you IMO. All those wasted years. I appreciate the thought provoking response. I’m a traditional guy. I really believed in the “for better, for worse, …till death do us part” stuff. And this certainly was “the worse”. For the first six to seven years or so, I really believed I was doing the best I knew how, including counseling, to make my marriage work and try to forgive. It sounds real corny, but I honestly thought I could be the forgiving person that we all hope we can be and I could move forward. But there always seemed to be something to there to remind me of the affair. I just couldn’t make it go away. Remember, I heard all of the uncensored details. That’s turned out to be something extremely difficult for me to overcome. Early on, after I found out, whenever thoughts of the affair were running through my brain, I could hear those recorded conversations in my head. It was painful. With time though, those thoughts became more anger and disappointment. Anger at her for cheating and disappointed in me for not having the strength to leave right then. The marriage since discovery has been, at times, decent. We have had some good times. We’ve continued to do our best at celebrating anniversaries. But she’s always known it’s been difficult for me. I’ve never made that a secret and I’ve never been dishonest with her about my feelings. Would she have believed I had forgiven her? You know, that’s something I’ve never asked. I always felt that I was working towards forgiveness. It’s pretty clear though that I’ve never forgiven her for what she did. That’s the rub really. I am going to ask the question now though. I’d like to think the years weren’t wasted. We have been able to give our children a stable home environment with two parents who care. That has to be worth something. I know it’s going to be painful for them when they find out their parents are splitting up. My only hope is that we can make it as easy as possible on them. Thanks again Kasan, this was a good one.
Untouchable_Fire Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I have thought about this thread for a couple of days and didn't respond, because I wanted to see what others would answer back to you. So here is what I think. I wonder if you have been as dishonest with your wife as she has been with you? The affair was a terrible thing that she did to you. But........you stayed with her for an additional ten years. I'm sure in those ten years, you told her that you loved her, had some very good times together, celebrated many milestones with her, and functioned as a married couple, parenting your children. Would she have believed that you had forgiven her? How has your marriage been since discovery day? Has she been a good wife and mother? Has she given you any reason to doubt her? And....I wonder how you managed to live with her an additional ten years harboring such anger and resentment towards her. This is where I wonder about your dishonesty in the marriage. This is a tragedy for the both of you IMO. All those wasted years. Your sympathy is misplaced. I get the sense that JL has tried very hard, but some hurts don't just go away. I don't sense a lot of malice from him. Their time together may be at an end, however that does not mean it was a waste. So, the tragedy here ended 10 years ago...
2sure Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 JL - as to "wasted years" - life isnt wasted. Mistakes and regrets are a part of it. Learning, good times, hard times, dysfunction, change, growth etc. - all incorporated into LIFE. So no, not wasted. It does not sound as though you actively sought to hang onto your unforgiveness as some do. Thats a big difference. I agree - having heard the details, would be impossible to forget. I have no real details like that and am happy for it. Still, I would like to know your wife's feelings regarding divorce. You have told her? You said that you have discussed it in the past - is this time different?
Kasan Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Your sympathy is misplaced. I get the sense that JL has tried very hard, but some hurts don't just go away. I don't sense a lot of malice from him. Their time together may be at an end, however that does not mean it was a waste. So, the tragedy here ended 10 years ago... You may be right.............. However, they both gave up ten years of their life on this marriage. He stayed for the sake of their kids, while she probably stayed because she loved him, and continued to build a marriage with him. Would she have continued to stay if he had hammered her on a daily basis about her infidelity? How did his wife go ten years without seeing his anger and resentment? Did she spend the ten years trying to make up for her bad choice/decision? I wonder what the outcome would have been had he told his wife, that he was going to stay until his children got old enough and then leave. I know what I would have done. Just think, they both could have moved on and been happy in their respective lives by now. And......I don't believe for one moment that the kids didn't know that something was off with Mom and Dad.
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