showmethemoney Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Trust is not something someone just gives their partner one day. The best explanation I heard was that trust is like a brick wall. When a partner proves their trust with ACTIONS and DEEDS a new brick is added to the wall. Over a period of time the wall will grow to a point that a partner will gain near absolute trust. It does not matter if the partner had an EA or PA, the trust (or wall) is knocked down and must be rebuilt over TIME. It is the WS who must now try and rebuild the wall (Trust) with ACTIONS and DEEDS (WORDS are meaningless). Beware of the WS who demands trust shortly after an affair! With that said here are my observations and suggestions: 1. She absolutely had an affair! Defiantly an EA and maybe a PA. Minimizing the situation is a classic tactic of a WS. 2. After her 'Come to Jesus' moment when they met in person, she still made a choice to lie and hide it from you. That shows her thought process of minimizing the affair. 3. Remember that the working relationship and/or friendship with this OM must be broken completely. The genie is out of the bottle and can not be put back. Ask her to quit and if thats not possible then transfer to a new department where she could have no contact with this person. 4. Demand access to her email, IM, and phone! Remember she knock down the wall of trust and she must rebuild it herself. She can not demand trust from you at this time. Watch for her reactions to number 3 and 4! If she goes through a succession of excuses why she can't. Then you know the affair is continuing. I wouldn't demand a lie detector test unless you are actually going to go through with it. Most WS's will call your bluff and if you don't back it up it will only empower them to lie more.
reservoirdog1 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Why are you both so sure it was physical? It's possible that it didn't get that far. But it's at least equally possible that it did. Keep in mind, you busted her. And it's the natural response of a cheater who's been caught to initially get defensive, try to shift blame onto you, and then tell you only as much as they need to in order to explain their actions just enough. I wouldn't trust her. Not at all. She wouldn't have told you if she hadn't had to. Which means that, up until the moment you confronted her, she was willing to lie to you (and potentially put your health at risk, depending on how far things actually went). And suddenly she's trustworthy? No way. You should immediately install a keylogger on her computer, so you can find out if she's still in contact with him. I'd be shocked if she's told you everything. Oh, and if she still works with him... that should stop, as soon as possible.
Reggie Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 James, our personal expierience is critical to making judgements. I'm sure , as an adult, you no longer would believe certain things that may have been believable to you as a kid. That is due to your expierience. No one can say, at this point, for sure that it has gone physical, that is true. what we know for a fact, based on what the BS has uncovered , is that there were multiple e-mails of a sexually descriptive nature between these folks. They met for lunch and his wife lied about all of this until confronted with proof. So, I think we can agree that it is emminently reasonable for the Bs to have well founded suspicions of a physical affair. I think we also agree that it is reasonable that he investigate further, So, with a Ws already demonstrating that she will lie about this, how would you go about ascertaining the truth? MC is fine, but, there is nothing a MC could do to see if she is lying. They are not trained investigators. Let me ask you this, seriously: If your wife busted you exchanging e-mails describing your desires to engage in certain physical, sexual acts with a co-worker, and, you proceeded to look her in the face an lie about it until you were cornered by irrefutable evidence, would you really have the temerity to be angry or resentful that she then doubted your word about the extent of the affair? I know I'd be absolutely mortified to express indignation re her doubts. I exppect you would, too.
atwitsend Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I agree with regee. She should jump at the opportunity to take a polygraph. It is the one way she can restore her husbands faith in her. James doesn't know what he is talking about. He is almost an advocate for a cheating spouse. Go with the prosecution. It is the way trust can start to be restored. " A polygraph is the dues you pay when you want to get out of the cheaters club"
JamesM Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I agree with regee. She should jump at the opportunity to take a polygraph. It is the one way she can restore her husbands faith in her. Sorry...I predict that no matter her guilt or innocence that her response will be anger and indignation. James doesn't know what he is talking about. Thank you. Coming from an intellectual such as yourself...this is a compliment. He is almost an advocate for a cheating spouse. Yeah, after almost 4000 posts here, I am known as an advocate for the cheaters. What I am an advocate for is fairness and levelheaded decisions. I think a good read of my posts will indicate this. Think this through before making any rash decisions. Choose what will rebuild the marriage if this is desired. Choose what will bring satisfaction and revenge if that is desired. Go with the prosecution. It is the way trust can start to be restored. When you go with the prosecution, you choose a trial. And a trial is either won or lost. A defendant is declared innocent or guilty...and the conclusions may NOT be the truth. And the after effects of a trial is usually not reconciliation but hurt feelings and termination of relationships. If the OP desires revenge and an end to his marriage, then he should choose the lie detector test. If he chooses the possibility of a rebuilt marriage, then he needs to choose someone who will help him rebuild his marriage.
soserious1 Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Sorry...I predict that no matter her guilt or innocence that her response will be anger and indignation. Thank you. Coming from an intellectual such as yourself...this is a compliment. Yeah, after almost 4000 posts here, I am known as an advocate for the cheaters. What I am an advocate for is fairness and levelheaded decisions. I think a good read of my posts will indicate this. Think this through before making any rash decisions. Choose what will rebuild the marriage if this is desired. Choose what will bring satisfaction and revenge if that is desired. When you go with the prosecution, you choose a trial. And a trial is either won or lost. A defendant is declared innocent or guilty...and the conclusions may NOT be the truth. And the after effects of a trial is usually not reconciliation but hurt feelings and termination of relationships. If the OP desires revenge and an end to his marriage, then he should choose the lie detector test. If he chooses the possibility of a rebuilt marriage, then he needs to choose someone who will help him rebuild his marriage. If I were in the position of having so little trust in a partner that I was demanding lie detector tests... I would know then that it was over and just call the lawyer instead. Why would I want to be married to,initimate with somebody I had to watch like a prison guard? I couldn't stand to be at the same dinner table with such a person,I'd choke on my food. OTOH, if I cheated and understood that staying married required me to accept being treated as many here advocate treating cheaters.. I'd hand my husband the quarter to call his lawyer myself, if the marriage was so poor that I'd decided that bedding another man was worth the risk of losing my husband, having to live the spanish inquistion lifestyle for years certainly wouldn't induce me to be begging and groveling for another chance. NO BS, no excuses blaming anybody but me.. yes, I spread my legs for another man,yes it felt wonderful,and yes,you are correct I am not sorry in the least,I cheated on you because I wanted to and didn't care how you might feel about it" That is the truth I would stand tall and straight and speak proudly,no head hanging,no remorse,no begging for another chance..just the facts. Such violations of trust are so serious, that I cannot imagine taking back an adulterer, nor can I fathom how somebody can cheat without knowing that what they're doing is exiting the marriage in the manner calculated to cause their spouse the greatest pain possible.
Reggie Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 If I were in the position of having so little trust in a partner that I was demanding lie detector tests... I would know then that it was over and just call the lawyer instead. Why would I want to be married to,initimate with somebody I had to watch like a prison guard? I couldn't stand to be at the same dinner table with such a person,I'd choke on my food. OTOH, if I cheated and understood that staying married required me to accept being treated as many here advocate treating cheaters.. I'd hand my husband the quarter to call his lawyer myself, if the marriage was so poor that I'd decided that bedding another man was worth the risk of losing my husband, having to live the spanish inquistion lifestyle for years certainly wouldn't induce me to be begging and groveling for another chance. NO BS, no excuses blaming anybody but me.. yes, I spread my legs for another man,yes it felt wonderful,and yes,you are correct I am not sorry in the least,I cheated on you because I wanted to and didn't care how you might feel about it" That is the truth I would stand tall and straight and speak proudly,no head hanging,no remorse,no begging for another chance..just the facts. Such violations of trust are so serious, that I cannot imagine taking back an adulterer, nor can I fathom how somebody can cheat without knowing that what they're doing is exiting the marriage in the manner calculated to cause their spouse the greatest pain possible. Me, too. The cybercheating would be enough for me to head for my lawyer's off ice. But, apparently, folks have different tolerances in this area. If a BS demands transparency etc after betrayal, the Ws has the choice to exit. BS has the choice to insist on certain conditions if the Ws wants to remain in the marriage. It's just one big contract negotation, assuming ther is any interest in continuing the marriage. Fact is that the vast majority of relationships do not continue after infidelity. I expect that is because, as soserious says, the Ws can't live with the transparency requirements and the BS can't get the feellings for the Ws back. After reading this stuff for a long time, IMO, I think both parties are beeter off just calling it quits after infidelity. Even if there are kids, the datage is just too great and the kids won't see a very healthy relationship , in most cases, from there on out.
showmethemoney Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 I think demanding NC with the other person and having access to all her email accounts, IM accounts and phone records to verify that the NC is in place would be enough for now. Changing jobs would be a requirement as well if it jeopardizes NC. If she is lying you will hear the usual excuses of 'where just going to be friends', 'I can't avoid contact with him', etc. That is all total BS! The friendship ended when they went down the path of a EA. She has no grounds to ask or demand that she remain friends or have contact. You just need to watch her reactions to absolute NC and you will get your answers. Trust will be rebuilt when she is open and honest and you can verify it. Eventually you will not need to verify but that is a decision between you and your wife. You should also see an MC and IC as soon as possible to work on the underlying issues why this occurred.
Saville Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 2. After her 'Come to Jesus' moment when they met in person, she still made a choice to lie and hide it from you. That shows her thought process of minimizing the affair. No, she made a choice to save her marriage. I'm not saying it is right or wrong, but we don't know what went on the mind of the wife. Some people need disclosure to move on, some feel otherwise. Again, I'm not condoning one over the other. 4. Demand access to her email, IM, and phone!Wouldn't he already have that? How did he find the emails in the first place? On a slightly different note, how is it that cheating spouses so often leave evidence in their email accounts, on their phones, and the like? It sounds rather reckless; almost like a part of them would like to be caught. I dunno. In terms of whether a liar will jump to defend themselves I would say that is true. I don't believe it indicates further duplicity, because I have been caught in a lie before, myself. However, it is a natural reaction when confronted with a short-coming in one's own character. It doesn't always portend to more sinister things; although it does certainly indicate a lack of trustworthiness. I agree with James that a "talking" through some of the issues that led to the EA would be in order. A lie-detector test would seem precipitous at this point. Better to reach a point where some gentleness has entered the equation, and then, if the BS still feels he must have some further proof, he might suggest it. It isn't reconciliation that is important at this juncture, but rather an atmosphere where both parties can assess their options. The WS created the drama, but the BS need not further the polarity by demanding a polygraph...there is time enough should that be deemed an option. I am not of the school that believes the cheater must take all the blame. Yes, they broke a vow, but there are other tacit ways to break vows, as well. Sometimes, in a marriage, a couple reaches a point where the quagmire of their relationship is so great that they simply don't know how to speak to one another. One party might stop having sex with the other, citing being busy, feeling tired, etc. The marriage may have begun on an uneven footing to begin with, with one party ever feeling that they are second-rate, and the other one aiding and abetting, albeit unconsciously, this feeling. It happens so often where one spouse becomes the "wife of" or husband of." Over years, layers of unworthiness might be heaped upon someone. Suddenly, someone takes an interest in them, and highlights just what a catch they are, and bingo, an affair. Nothing of much interest happens in a vacuum, certainly not relationships. Whether the relationship is worth saving, or salvaging to any degree, will be up to you. The violation is all the WS's and they must own that, and were she posting here I would counsel to that end. However, it is you that are here, and as such, it may be helpful for you to examine your whole life, so that any future relationships do not become subsequently mired in a lack of communication. You have a right to be angry and outraged, and no one should take that away from you. It is important to give yourself the time to get through all that. Demand at least that much grace from your wife, and ask all the questions that you need to in order to make sense of this horrible betrayal. However, at some point the healing must begin, and so, to that end we must all assess our values from time to time, and if they are not ones we can nurture, then we must jettison them forthwith. Just so you know, I am struggling with many of these same issues myself, and so I only offer my opinion as it stands at this juncture in my own development. Life ain't easy, but then it wouldn't be worth much if it was. All the best. Saville
showmethemoney Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 If you read the first post you will see his wife justified not telling the truth because in her opinion nothing physical happened! That is minimizing her actions or a flat out lie, you choose. As far as looking for issues in the marriage that will be up to him and his wife and a good MC. I have no ideal how their marriage was so I won't try and guess and quickly point to the BS. What I do know is that his wife has boundary issues and a complete lack of respect for her husband and her marriage vows. She needs to see an IC to discover why she made the choices that brought them to this point. If they do have marriage issues then that will be the MC's job to sort that out.
Reggie Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 Tough to work on issues in a marriage with someone that is untrustworthy and without knowing the truth. This woman is dishonest. Her motivation in lying had nothing to do with saving her marriage. It was done so she could either continue the affair, or, at least, avoid fallout for cheating. If she was desirous of saving her marriage, she would have sought counseling to see whay she has become a liar and cheater. I don't think you can benefit from counseling until you get the truth.
hurtbad Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 I was just wondering if we are the spouses of our cheating partners. My husband also had an emotional affair with a coworker, siad nothing happened but emails & cell calls. I sure would like to know when it started and ended.
hurtbad Posted January 20, 2009 Posted January 20, 2009 Just wondering, my husband said he was involved with a coworker but nothing happened, emotional affair I guess, story sounds familair. When did the affair happen and what does your wife do for a living? We might just have something in common.Husband said lunches & cell calls but both decided it would hurt their spouses and that would be wrong. Story sounds the same.
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