not_sure_what_to_do Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I found out a few days ago that my wife had a cyber-fling with a co-worker. I found explicit emails discussing what they wanted to do, where and when. When I confronted her, after the initial denial..she stated that she stopped it before it got physical. She states they went out for lunch and agreed that they didn't wan't to hurt their spouses, and that was it. She swears that nothing physical happened and this type of thing will never happen again. This is a marriage of 10+ years with kids. What should I do? I don't want to get divorced and rarely see my kids...and I still love her....but I hurt and don't know if I can trust her.
atwitsend Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 You obviously can't believe that she did nothing. You have to press her until you are confident of the answers. You will literally have to interrogate her. TELL HER THAT SINCE THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF HER INFIDELITY THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE HER TAKE A LIE DETECTOR TEST IMMEDIATELY SO THAT YOU AND HER CAN MOVE BEYOND THIS. IN FACT TELL HER THAT YOU HAVE SCHEDULED ONE FOR NEXT TUESDAY. Then see how she acts (but I would have her take one anyways. Its worth the money to get to the truth.
mark982 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 you don't seriously believe her.there's "alot" more to this than you think.i'd be doing some serious snooping.
Author not_sure_what_to_do Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 Why are you both so sure it was physical?
atwitsend Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 simply go through the threads here. 99% of the time the cheating spouse will lie unless proof is put before them. Refresh my memory. Did you catch her or did she come up out of the blue and say she was in an EA. Threaten the lie detector. She will most likely crack before the appointment. If she is offended because you don't trust her. Tell her "that is the cost of your deception. How does it feel." You understandably sound afraid of what you would find. Like I said read the threads.
Reggie Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Prior to expieriencing this, I would have questioned whether it went physical. I realize that you or any of us do not have proof positive at this time. But, as another poster mentions, this I've seen this scenario,with the initial somewhat expalinable evidence, turn out to be a physical affair having happened in every single story I've come across, my own, as well. I like the lie detector threat as a technique to dislodge truth. If she says she is willing, still follow through. I've seen several scenarios where the cheater, initially, agrees to the test believing that the BS will not follow through. In these cases, every time, as the time for the test approached and it became evident that this was no bluff, the cheater came forth with more information. Also, you need to cheack computers, cell phone records and bank statements. I realize the presence of evidence re communication or purchases will not neccessarily contradict their story that it did not go physical. But, in many cases I've seen an incrdeible volume of calls and texts, e-mails etc that are inconsistent with feelings that had not been acted upon. I'd also suggest you get in contact with this man's spouse to both inform her and compare notes. The cheaters may have collaborated to get their stories straight. But, even then there will be inconsistencies. Go with the polygraph, both the threat of it and the use of it, if needed.
mark982 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 why do we think it's turned physical? why are we here, we've heard every story{lie} from cheating spouse.
Citizen Erased Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 You obviously can't believe that she did nothing. You have to press her until you are confident of the answers. You will literally have to interrogate her. TELL HER THAT SINCE THAT WAS THE EXTENT OF HER INFIDELITY THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HAVE HER TAKE A LIE DETECTOR TEST IMMEDIATELY SO THAT YOU AND HER CAN MOVE BEYOND THIS. IN FACT TELL HER THAT YOU HAVE SCHEDULED ONE FOR NEXT TUESDAY. Then see how she acts (but I would have her take one anyways. Its worth the money to get to the truth. That is ridiculous. Lie detector tests are not exactly 100% reliable.
JamesM Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Actually, her story is very plausible and quite possibly true. not_sure_what_to_do, consider this...why CAN'T you believe her? Why did she HAVE to have gone physical? It is very possible that she realized when they met that (1) the feelings on line did not translate to reality, and (2) the feelings of guilt overtook both of them when they had lunch. Just because "everyone here" has had it happen to them does not mean your wife cheated on you. Personally, if it was me, I would believe her until it is shown that there is more evidence. The next comment will be that she would never have said anything if you had not confronted her, and this is true. Why? Because they never did anything more than talk on line. She could have easily stopped it. I know explicit places and activities were named, but to paint a proper fantasy one needs to make it as real as possible. Now, there IS the possibility that she did cheat physically. But what evidence do you have? Have you confirmed her whereabouts during those times that supposedly they were going to meet and have sex? Did you find out if the emails were only fantasy or is there some sort of physical reality to them? Do you want to throw your marriage overboard because of what people here tell you? Or do you want to give your marriage another chance? Do you want to mess up your life and children's lives because of emails? And does cheating mean that marriages MUST be over? No. Choose marriage counseling if you need it. Choose individual counseling if you need it. Do NOT choose the divorce lawyer. Doing something rash may be the one thing you regret forever.
JamesM Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Threaten the lie detector. She will most likely crack before the appointment. If she is offended because you don't trust her. Tell her "that is the cost of your deception. How does it feel." You understandably sound afraid of what you would find. Like I said read the threads. So...as long as she says that she has not done more than email cheating, then she is lying. As soon as she "cracks" and reveals that she had a physical affair, then she is telling the truth. What I gather is...the truth has been decided for her. Total fallacy and a bunch of BS.
atwitsend Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 How is asking her to take a lie detector test "throwing his marriage overboard"? The physical reality James is that they physically met for lunch. And where exactly has divorce been mentioned? Can't see it mentioned in this thread.
Reggie Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I disagree with James and think he is totally off base. As I said, proir to getting my own expieirence, I would have probably lined up with James. But, here is where I think he is way off: First, you caught her involved in some graphic cyber cheating. James feels you would be risking your marriage if you continue to investigate and do not accept her word at this point. But, we already know she has been dishonest re the cyber cheating. She did not come forward with it. And, no reasonable, innocent spouse is going to resent being investigated further, by way of a polygraph(which, is very reliable in my expierience(( I did a ton of criminal defense in my younger days)). See , if she is "innocent" and remorseful, there is no way she would not understand your need to look inot this further. She will realize that her behavior, understandably, has caused you to question everything she says. She will not resent it, having caused the issue in the first place. I've done a ton of reading on this issue and I have a lot of expierience with folks lying in court, depositions and in statements. Here's what I can tell you. Initially, a hostile or defensive response to an inquiry may appear to a BS as an appropriate response by a wrongly accused, innocent person. We think, "yeah. if I was being questioned about something of which I was innocent, I'd be pissed/hostile, as well". But, stop and think about this reaction. Is it truly the reaction that you , as a faithful, loving spouse would have if your spouse came to you expressing concerns about your fidelity? I'd submit a that a truly innocent person would react quite differently thant the hostile, defensive, rageful way we often see cheaters react. I submit that an innocent spouse might be bewildered(not in your case, though , as the cyber cheting clearly makes your concern understadable), Then, there would be concern and a strong desire to talk about what you found to allay your fears and explain things. This is the normal reaction of an innocent person. When I get hostility on cross or in a deposition, I know I m on to something. So, if, as James says, your insistence on a poly or your investigating further jeopardizes your marriage due to a hostile/defensive reaction from your wife, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts you are onto her having taken this physical. Bottom line, she brought this uncertainty into your mind with her cheating on-line. If she is innocent, there should be no anger or resentment over your need to investigate. She should understand your need to check things out and should understand why you cannot take her word after what she has done. If your fully justified investigating causes the breakup of your marriage, you can be sure it is not because you demonstrated a lack of trust(you would be a fool to trust and she should know this) but because she knows she is about to be busted.
JamesM Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 How is asking her to take a lie detector test "throwing his marriage overboard"? "Making" your spouse take a lie detector test is going to the extreme. It say that "I don't believe you...period," and "I am going to humiliate you by making you take this test." Even if she is telling the truth or if she is lying, this step will pretty much end the marriage. You like to say that the test is the "cost of her deception" but by telling the OP to push a lie detector test, it could cost him his marriage when there is no need to lose it yet. If she passes the test, then will you say, "Okay, believe her." Do you think the test will make everything better? Nope. I am guessing that then we will be discussing how someone can cheat a lie detector test. "She has shown she can lie...surely she can fool the lie detector." The physical reality James is that they physically met for lunch. First off, all we have here is virtual reality. There is nothing physical about this. Second, even the OP does not know if there was anything physical. You are basing your assumptions on your experiences. The "physical reality" is that there has been no physical reality shown yet. And certainly a physical affair has not been proven. And where exactly has divorce been mentioned? Can't see it mentioned in this thread. Uh, read my post...I said do not go to a divorce lawyer. I never said anyone else mention divorce.
jwi71 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 What do you KNOW? What facts do you have have? Not guesses, not I think so...facts. You know she had an EA. You know they discussed having a PA. You know they met for lunch. That's it - all we know. Conjecture is pointless as is questioning your W - you wouldn''t believe anything she said at this point. Now...what do YOU want? Do you want to work on the M? If you do, the she MUST QUIT her job. She has already proven incapable of setting boundaries with him - she resigns NOW. Then you get yourself an MC. If not...find a lawyer.
lkjh Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I disagree with James. You know she was sending sexual messages to a co-worker who she probably see's often(since they work together). Asking her to take a test is in response to her cheating. Trust is earned not given.
Bryanp Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I am sorry that you have to be here. I would ask your wife what gave her permission to cybersex with a co-worker and betray your marriage? They talked about all of the sexual things they wanted to do to each other and have gone out to lunch together no doubt talking about at least doing these things. It is reasonable based on this they had to be at least kissing involved after lunch at times. My friend if the roles were reversed, do you honestly believe your wife would believe this story a 100%? I seriously doubt it. I find a couple of things disturbing to say the least. First, when you caught her she had no problem lying to your face and only later finally admitted it faced with the evidence. Second, her comment the reason they ended it was according to her they did not want to hurt their spouses. Does this mean cybersexing with someone else does not hurt their spouses? The comment implies that she did not feel she was doing anything morally wrong - rather she just did not want to hurt her spouse. What is wrong with this picture? I think you have some very serious problems here. She has already emotionally at the very least broken her committment to you describing sexually what she wishes to do with her co-worker. She is attempting to hide this under the rug. You desperately need marriage counseling to deal with this. She has been having an emotional affair with a co-worker. She will see him everyday. Again if the roles were reversed would your wife find that acceptable from you? You now know that your wife can lie to your face, have cybersex with another man and emotionally cheat on you with a man she works with. I like the other have said seriously doubt you have the whole story. It is doubtful that they would have been cybersexing each other if they have not at the very least kissed while going out to various lunches together. You don't just start cybersexing a man she works with unless something else has preceded it and led up to the stage of cybersexing. I think this is very reasonable to assume this. Be prepared for further answers to come about. Your wife is in damage control and you know she has the ability to lie to your face. I wish you luck.
Reggie Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 As James points out, the insistence on her taking the test does say" I do not believe you". But, here is the reality: If she has an ounce of perspective and empathy, she should understand that with your having busted her cyber cheating, there can be no reasonable expectation that you would take her word. What's that Homer Simpson line? Something like " It does not bother me when people do not believe me when I am lying. But, this really upsets me when I am telling the truth." It is very rare for anyone other than a Sociopath beating a polygraph.
JamesM Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I disagree with James and think he is totally off base. As I said, prior to getting my own experience, I would have probably lined up with James. I have followed your story and respect your opinions. You seem level headed. Please don't let your own experiences color your advice. But, here is where I think he is way off: First, you caught her involved in some graphic cyber cheating. James feels you would be risking your marriage if you continue to investigate and do not accept her word at this point. But, we already know she has been dishonest re the cyber cheating. She did not come forward with it. Actually, we don't know exactly what the emails said, but even if they were graphic and it ended at email affair, then we have a virtual affair...not a physical affair. Yes, she has been dishonest about the email, but if she ended it, then it is entirely possible that she felt that since it was over, then it was okay to keep it secret. She would not be the first, and doing so would not harm her marriage...unless the secret were found out. I think the OP should get counseling and move forward under the assumption that the emails were all...unless he has evidence he has not revealed. I do not think that further investigation will jeopardize the marriage, but I do think that using the wrong methods for further investigation will end the marriage. Pushing a lie detector test is not an option IMO. And, no reasonable, innocent spouse is going to resent being investigated further, by way of a polygraph Actually, this may be the opposite. If she has told the truth and feels that she can be trusted in what she says, then taking a lie detector test is tantamount to being told that she cannot be telling the truth. A reasonable spouse may be deeply offended that this route of investigation is being used. Most would not be offended at suggesting a counselor. My guess is that even if the lie detector says she is honest, the marriage will be ruined unless MC is undertaken. I'd submit a that a truly innocent person would react quite differently thant the hostile, defensive, rageful way we often see cheaters react. She is a cheater in the virtual sense. This we know. No one says she is innocent. I submit that an innocent spouse might be bewildered(not in your case, though , as the cyber cheting clearly makes your concern understadable), Then, there would be concern and a strong desire to talk about what you found to allay your fears and explain things. This is the normal reaction of an innocent person. While I cannot question your experience and I trust you do know what you are talking about, if my wife came to me today and said, "I think you are cheating based on this email." And I said, "It ended there." And she said, "I don't believe you. Take a lie detector test." I may go along with it, but our relationship has been changed completely. There would be a "strong desire" to convince her, but it doesn't matter...she won't believe me. I would be extremely angry that she would use a lie detector test to "prove" my words. However, if she suggested MC, then I would be very agreeable to this as resolving the fall out of the email affair. I don't read what the OP's wife's reactions were. So, if, as James says, your insistence on a poly or your investigating further jeopardizes your marriage due to a hostile/defensive reaction from your wife, I'd bet dollars to doughnuts you are onto her having taken this physical. While I had a delicious doughnut this morning, I don't agree. Bottom line, she brought this uncertainty into your mind with her cheating on-line. If she is innocent, there should be no anger or resentment over your need to investigate. Maybe not in your opinion, but we do not know the whole situation. And anger on her part does not indicate guilt. If your fully justified investigating causes the breakup of your marriage, you can be sure it is not because you demonstrated a lack of trust(you would be a fool to trust and she should know this) but because she knows she is about to be busted. Again, not necessarily. This affair did not happen in a vacuum. It happened with a cause. What precipitated her need for an email affair? What was the marriage like prior to this discovery? While we cannot blame the OP for the affair, we can see based on many stories here that something precipitated the emails. Assumption are known to lead to foolish conclusions. A "further investigation" at the hands of a counselor may be the most constructive way to rebuild this marriage. "Further investigation" utilizing a lie detector and a detective will not lead to marital resolution IMO. If the end of the marriage is desired, then a lie detector is "reasonable." not_sure_what_to_do ... When reading the advice given here, look back at the threads started by the person giving the advice. See what their experiences are. Those that have a wife that cheated will automatically assume yours has cheated. Those that have weathered a storm of mistrust and have seen a sunnier future will tell you to move towards resolution utilizing a counselor. My one piece of advice...even if you do not agree with the rest of what I have to say is: seek out a marriage counselor and get a session for yourself to see what that person suggest. Do not seek out the "help" of a lie detector test professional.
JamesM Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 You don't just start cybersexing a man she works with unless something else has preceded it and led up to the stage of cybersexing. I think this is very reasonable to assume this. Be prepared for further answers to come about. Your wife is in damage control and you know she has the ability to lie to your face. I wish you luck. Completely disagree. I do not think it is reasonable to assume this. Two coworkers can be in the same office and have this "dirty little secret." They can email each other all day long yet never talk of it when together. In fact, they can avoid each other. It is a fantasy. They can email what they would like to do to each other and build up such an excitement that they decide it is time to take this think physical and real. Yet they finally went and had lunch together to see what was happening. Then reality sunk in, and they realized that this was wrong and not what they wanted. The emails kept hidden the reality of no possible future. Even a physical affair sounded unappealing when brought out into the daylight. It all ended there. This is a reasonable explanation that can be in fact what happened. One lie does not always mean that there are multitudes of lies. Based on that assumption, one can assume that the OP's wife is not only a serial cheater and has multiple affairs, she is also a prostitute. One step does not automatically lead to the next assumed step. In this day and age, cyber affairs can be kept in a fantasy world and never ever reach reality. The wife can easily be telling the truth, and further investigation should be done at a MC office.
lkjh Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Cyber affairs between two people who see each other often will most likely proceed to the next level. Yes it is possible that it didn't but when you are dealing with your life you take the more likely approach. People have to act, you can not just close your eyes and hope everything will get better.
lkjh Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 If a man is caught with a pocket full of cash standing over a dead clerks body in a gas station; you can assume he committed the crime. Yes its possible he didn't but it is still ok to question him.
Reggie Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 The problem I see with James' analysis is that it fails to take into account that a normal , reasonable, spouse that has been busted cybercheating should have no resentment re being doubted about his or her veracity. Go back to the absurdity of the Home Simpson line. Your wife knows she was busted lying and cheating already in some form. Can you see how it would be absurd for her to have an expectation of being trusted further at this point. Of course there is a possibility that this has not gone further and she is telling the truth. BUT, if that is the case, having brought all this doubt and mistrust into the marriage herelf, clearly she lacks standing to feel resentment over your doubting her. I cannot give you odds on whether it wnet physical. But, I can tell you that someone that took responsibility for having caused this issue in the first place would have no expectation of being trusted at this point. And, James, re the graphic nature of the cybersex, I believe he mentioned they were describing what they would like to do to each other. I'll check on that. But, how likely is it that two co-workers would talk to each other about such an intimate thing without it having gone physical or , at least without a plan to do so in effect? Who e-mails things like that to a mere co-worker?
Reggie Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 If she is willing to lie at this point, what makes anyone think she will not continue at the MC office? Haven't we all seen WS that lie in MC? I see this all the time. They only come clean when confronted with evidence. His wife already demonstrated that.
JamesM Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 If a man is caught with a pocket full of cash standing over a dead clerks body in a gas station; you can assume he committed the crime. Yes its possible he didn't but it is still ok to question him. What we have here is the equivalent of a man typing an email stating how he would steal the money. Making the assumption that he robbed the bank (which we don't even know was robbed) is jumping to conclusions.
JamesM Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 And, James, re the graphic nature of the cybersex, I believe he mentioned they were describing what they would like to do to each other. I'll check on that. But, how likely is it that two co-workers would talk to each other about such an intimate thing without it having gone physical or , at least without a plan to do so in effect? Who e-mails things like that to a mere co-worker? Actually, this is what makes the story most plausible. Emailing graphic stories is much easier than having an actual affair. In fact, I am willing to guess that if an actual affair occurred, then they would AVOID all talk and emails that may be used as evidence. See above...a plan does not mean an action took place. Most posters are making assumptions NOT based on the evidence given top us but BASED ON THEIR PERSONAL EXPERIENCES.
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