Author Gunny376 Posted January 30, 2009 Author Posted January 30, 2009 Well Gunny, I certainly know how you feel friend... My first wife bashed me in front of my oldest daughter for years... it got to the point where she didnt want anything to do with me after the age of 10 or 11... But in the end once she grew up she eventually realized what her mother had been doing all those years... So in my opinion try to be there for them.. show them that you care like someone said above start with little things a call a letter let them kow that you are thinking about them.. If that doesnt get you anywhere then assault them from the front... Best wishes Gunny... I know this is eating you up man and I feel for you.... Thanks Bro! Yea this is the one area of my Life that's wearing me raw! The freaking XHEX and all of her BS, lies! The worse part of it? Is she's not even aware of it? Her interpertation of the "truth" is so distorted and screwed up! She was a mistake of my youth, that I had children with ~ and now I'm paying the price for! BIG TIME!
amaysngrace Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Gunny you made me do my homework on my thread so I think you should do yours now. Can you slap her with a lawsuit? Find out. Winning a day in court with a money prize at the end goes a long way in the vindication department.
Kasan Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Gunny, you have been struggling with how to connect with your children for quite some time, and it sounds like a lot of this can be laid at your ex's door. My husband walked in your kid's shoes. His mother got divorced when he was two and his brother was three. He grew up hearing that his father was a bas*tard, no good, blah, blah by his mother and step-father, especially when they were in their self-induced alcoholic haze, which was pretty much on a daily basis. All those years, no attempt (that my husband knew about) was made to stay in touch with him or his brother by his father. My husband decided to actively search for his father when he was in his late 30s, as he heard a couple of strange stories that were circulated around at the usual funerals and weddings that occur in families. He found him, called him, and had an awkward phone conversation with him. And here is where the story would have ended if his real father's kids (he remarried) hadn't gotten wind of my husband, and really worked on connecting with him. Fast forward to today.........they all have a good relationship.......and my husband really likes his father, and his step-sisters. I guess I just wanted you to know Gunny, that the truth has a way of coming out. My husband's mother passed away in May and he has spoken with his step-father twice since then, and could care less if he ever speaks with him again. Too many lies, too many violent episodes, and fear of what his step-father would do to his mother, if my husband crossed his step-father. Now that his mother is gone, who gives a sh*t he says... The truth that came out? His mother cheated on his father, the step-father poisoned the boys against their dad, as I am sure he didn't want the boys father to know what was really going on in the house. As a father himself, my husband lives with the knowledge that his father didn't fight hard enough to insert himself in his and his brother's lives, but times were very different years ago then they are now. Your kids grew up with a skewed version of the truth, Gunny--to what good would it serve you and your kids to go all Gunny on them? If I remember correctly your kids are in their late 20's..........don't be surprised when they get older that they might want to hear your side, or maybe your side won't be as important as having a relationship with you, their dad. The truth will come out! Keep your chin up!
Trimmer Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Enough is enough! I'm inclined to go with a full frontal assult? And write a full disclourse letter with supporting documents? Thoughts? Gunny, I still feel strongly about what I said earlier in the thread, so I won't waste space repeating it here. Except I will reiterate that if you want to continue the analogy, a full frontal assault is for the situation where you are faced with an enemy that needs to be vanquished, and you always run the risk of "collateral damage" occurring to people in areas near the assault zone, yes? So remember that the kids are not the target of your assault - they are not the enemy here. And if you do focus the assault on your wife, there is a risk of collateral damage to the kids as a result, which may just set your purpose back. Finally, if you lay your case out to your kids, as a way of addressing your wife's transgressions, isn't that like strapping a bomb on the back of a teenager and sending him on a mission into a battle zone? If all you care about is attacking your foe and "winning" then it may well do the job, but it does have its negative consequences for the kid(s) pulled into the middle of the fight. In the end, which is the higher purpose: to prove that you are right, or to reestablish a connection with your kids? I'm not asking this as a judgement of you - as I would expect both are real feelings - but I think you are struggling with this.
Author Gunny376 Posted January 30, 2009 Author Posted January 30, 2009 As always! Good and wise counsel and words! All worth going back on the back forty, drinking whiskey and spitting into the fire!
LakesideDream Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Been there done that Gunny, Got my daughter through her Masters, took 5 years, checks every month, books every quarter, she called to chat for a half hour every week. When school was done I stopped sending checks. Since she graduated, and immediately got a job 4 years ago. She a professional, makes great money. Maybe 10 calls and 10 emails since I stopped sending the checks. Son? Meth head. Cleaned him up after the Divorce. Supported him in my home for 18 months. Put my life on permenant hold during that time. He got back on dope and left... couldn't deal with a structured life. He's been couch surfing since (6+ years) Other than call for bail money.. no phone contact, maybe 10 emails from him too. That's the way it is Guns.
TrustInYourself Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Guns, how are things with your kids? You work that out?
Author Gunny376 Posted January 30, 2009 Author Posted January 30, 2009 Been there done that Gunny, Got my daughter through her Masters, took 5 years, checks every month, books every quarter, she called to chat for a half hour every week. When school was done I stopped sending checks. Since she graduated, and immediately got a job 4 years ago. She a professional, makes great money. Maybe 10 calls and 10 emails since I stopped sending the checks. Son? Meth head. Cleaned him up after the Divorce. Supported him in my home for 18 months. Put my life on permenant hold during that time. He got back on dope and left... couldn't deal with a structured life. He's been couch surfing since (6+ years) Other than call for bail money.. no phone contact, maybe 10 emails from him too. That's the way it is Guns. Yea just like back in the "Suck" There's the way its suppose to be, and then there's the way it is! A little something I like to call reality! Deal with it! I guess I should be counting my blessings and not my troubles.
Author Gunny376 Posted January 30, 2009 Author Posted January 30, 2009 Thanks Cap your last post really helped to snap out of it! A LOT! I seriously need to get over the XHEX did on my head, and getting back to being Gunny. I was a serious kick-@ss Gunny. I wasn't just good, I was damned good. Got out here in civilian la~la land, and got disoriented, lost, dazed and confused. Everyone running around screaming and shouting in circles, and no one in charge. Like most Marines, I'm not about what I did and gave to non-Marines. I did and gave what I had to do! And I did and gave the best I had at the time.
LakesideDream Posted January 30, 2009 Posted January 30, 2009 Thanks Cap your last post really helped to snap out of it! A LOT! I seriously need to get over the XHEX did on my head, and getting back to being Gunny. I was a serious kick-@ss Gunny. I wasn't just good, I was damned good. Got out here in civilian la~la land, and got disoriented, lost, dazed and confused. Everyone running around screaming and shouting in circles, and no one in charge. Like most Marines, I'm not about what I did and gave to non-Marines. I did and gave what I had to do! And I did and gave the best I had at the time. It ain't all bad Guns, My kids still tease me about when they were little. My daughter especially giggles remembering me asking her at 6 or 7.... "What's your major malfunction" when she misbehaved. Or "Is it my turn to talk now" when my Son ran his mouth endlessly trying to talk his way out of a kid jam. And you would have loved my Cub Scout troop. Badges galore, fun for all, organized mayham, and no misbehaviors.. cookies every time. Of course the wife thought I was completely crazy.. asking a kid what his malfunction was..... Curiously, my daughter teaches 5th grade. She says she routinely asks unruly students what their major malfunction is....... Those were the days. Let me know if you find any Dragons that need slaying. I'm bored.
pelicanpreacher Posted January 31, 2009 Posted January 31, 2009 I'm going to post this for public consumption and consideration. and But, I'm basically ~ DONE! I've paid tens of thousands of dollars, (actually hundreds) begged, pleaded, gave away 12 years of marriage belongings to another man, suffered bankruptcy, had my children call another man that gave up his only child to keep from paying child support ~ Daddy. All to start over from scratch? From nothing! I did right! I've gave and gave and gave some more! I figure I've I've got some twenty to twenty five more years to live, and by God I'm going to live them for me! P.S. I'm PO! Whoa!!! More thought for the sauce! I'd set up an ambush intervention by inviting the step father's child with you to have lunch with your daughter so that everyone can compare notes on the facts about this man your ex-wife married. I'd definately bring all facts regarding the child support you paid to this luncheon and ask the stepfather's child how she felt about getting no child support from her own father whatsoever whilst he acted like a big shot with the child support funds you provided to your own daughter to make himself look good. (I wonder how much money she received from him after the child support was cut off?) Then, I'd embarrass the crap out of your daughter by extending the same offer of financial support to get a college education to the orphaned child in front of your her just to make her see how serious you are about this issue which might create jealousy in her over the relationship you're beginning with someone who isn't even your own blood! You still have to remember though Gunny, the root cause for your daughter's resentment and angst against you might have nothing to do with her step-father at all. She saw the entire circus of your divorce up front and personal but ended up in her mother's custody throughout her formative years and may still perceive your absence in her life as abandonment which can be overcome by following NID's suggestion of persistently making inroads into her life whether she invites you or not. At least your ex can no longer use your child support payments as financial leverage to buy the upper hand should she find out what you've been doing to develop a closer relationship with your daughter.
Author Gunny376 Posted January 31, 2009 Author Posted January 31, 2009 Gunny - With all respect to pelicanpreacher's heartfelt sermon, I don't think this is a "battle" you will win with grenades, bullets, blood and sweat. This is hearts and minds territory here... The bond your kids have built up with their mom is strong, and they have built their lives around ithat relationship since they were 6 and 10. If anything threatens that, threatens those core beliefs, they will very naturally resist having that core shaken. So any way of forcing them to change their views - realizing that their mom committed adultery, how much she contributed to the marriage breakup, the wrongs she did afterward, etc. - is doomed to fail; it is human nature to put up defenses in the face of information that threatens your core beliefs, and if that information is whistling in like artillery shells, then it makes it even more imperative to defend strongly against it. The harder you push, pretty soon they're putting up emergency defenses subconsciously just for the sake of guarding against the offensive (eyes glazing over, anyone???) in spite of the factual and historical accuracy of the incoming information. I suggest that anything you do has to recognize that your kids need to preserve their basic core beliefs, at least initially, in order to preserve their own emotional stability. Let me repeat that, because it's not about being nice to your ex or the step-dad just for the sake of being nice - it's about your kids' need to keep their balance and not have their world-view shaken too much all at once. So if your primary goal is to open their eyes to "what mom has done," I think that isn't going to work, and going down that path of exposing the 'real her' isn't even a good way to get to where you really are trying to go. I get the sense that this isn't probably what you're after anyway; correct me if I'm wrong, but I bet the real, fundamental point here isn't so much to get them to turn against her, or even to force them to realize what sacrifices you've made, so much as to establish a connection with them that has been lacking through the years? If that's really it, then I wonder if you can accomplish that - or at least set out on that journey - without having to chip away at the ex. What I'm imagining is an approach (and maybe you've already tried this...) where you try to open the lines of communication with them in ways that don't threaten their existing bonds with mom and step-dad, etc. Let them know that you care, that you love them, that you've always been there for them, all that stuff, but without taking an inherent stand against their mom. Now, know that they probably have a warped view of your participation in their lives, and accept that you are working against that, and look for ways to fill in the blanks for them. But approach it not from the angle of tearing down their mother, but rather from the angle of "here's my perspective, here's what I've done, here's why I did it, and I want to make a connection..." Correct any misperceptions they present with your honest perspective - how did it look from your side - why did you do what you did, but leave your perceptions of their mom and her actions out of it to the degree possible. Sidestep your impressions of her as a spouse and an ex-spouse while, if possible, showing respect to her position as their mother. Deliver your honest perspective and your truth as it relates to them, let them hear it, and give them the biggest leap of faith of all: trust that they will eventually question and ask for the truth themselves. I don't know if I'm getting it across, but if you can entice them with your perspective in a way that makes it safe for them to talk to you, to ask you about things, then they may begin to open up with you. A big part of this is your acceptance of whatever their current status is: you have to accept the fact of their close bond with their mother, and whatever their relationship is with step-dad, and you have to be truly willing, in your heart, not to want to tear those things down. Again, even showing some respect for the "mother" and "step father" characters may help make it safe for them to open up a bit. Recognize that those are important relationships to the people that your children have become, and that there will be more of a chance for them to make room in their hearts if they perceive that you are not a threat to those relationships. So I guess, in a way, I'm suggesting a sort of a fishing exercise. Make contact, offer them whatever you have to offer - I wonder if they don't deep down wonder about their father, and long for some connection themselves - and let them know that you will be there. Then, if they reach out, you will need to make it safe for them to change their opinion of you as a father, by not threatening their existing relationships with mom and step-dad... I know it sounds all touchy-feely, but knowing how their mother and step-father relationships are now built into their lives, simply trying to cut into that with "the truth" is going to meet with some significant resistance. People will go to great lengths to avoid having their core beliefs attacked, but if they can safely explore to satisfy a curiosity that may already be there - just who is "Dad", really? - maybe there's your way to make a connection. Instead of forcing upon them what you need, try offering them something they may want to explore..... Thanks for re-posting your original thoughts on the subject. (Seen in the light of a new day) I belive this is what I was looking for. And your correct, I'm going to meet with stiff resistence with a full frontal assualt, and presentation of the "facts" I've never intentionally "bad-mouthed" either their Mom nor the SD, although I could stand on the nearest street corner and make an all day sermon of it! And its not my intention to live my life for my children, nor tell them how to live theirs? I simply want to re-connect with them and have them be a part of my life and they mine. Be there for them as their Farther. Be there for them when I can and how I can, and step out of the way and let them take their falls in Life as they may. And, that's really what I'm up against. Perspective and reality! Wheather their perspective and reality are the same as mine is illrelevant. It is what it is! And my trying to force my perspective / reality into their persception of such would be futile
Author Gunny376 Posted February 1, 2009 Author Posted February 1, 2009 A lot of this has to with the XHEX's own insecrties, issues, controlling behavior. And Trimmer is right in that if I go with a frontal assualt, I'm going to find them firmly entrenched. I've thought about writing some letters, explaining my version of the truth. But, her generation really isn't about reading letters like mine was, (Pre-emails, texting, computers, internet ~ and we use to actually have to sit down and write letters with pens and paper) And, then I'm considering the slow, sure, and stready route, baby steps. I realize what I'm working against and understand social dynamics. I'm really not trying to up-surp the SF, he's actually from all that I know, seen and heard a pretty decent guy and has done righteous by my children. He's "P" -whipped I think, but a decent human being. And I'm not trying to live my life through my children's lives nor live my life for my children. Just trying to re-connect. I know a lot about a lot of different things, but have studied inter-personal relationships and personal finance extensively. And so now that my children are in their twenties, I've a lot of experience and knowledge in two of the most key areas that adults have to contend with ~ but yet is not formally taught in the formal school system. My being a retied Marine aside, I've one of the more recession proof jobs, and now that I'm the otherside of the divorce/child support/ child rearing business? Overcame the serial mongomy temptation ~ rebound treadmill, I'm actually coming (Finally) into and of my own! That is to say, that in these trouble economic times, I could really help both of my children out in a big way, should the need arise. The nut I've got to crack each month is $64 over and above my military retirement. I bank most of my monthly income from my civilian job. Any thoughts and suggestions are appreciated.
Mz. Pixie Posted February 3, 2009 Posted February 3, 2009 Gunz- Stop worrying about your ex and what she's said and refuting it and giving them the real story. Start with baby steps forming a relationship. Once they get to know you better they will be able to see that alot of what the Hex said is not true. Quit trying to prove you are right- that's what you need to let go of.
Author Gunny376 Posted February 3, 2009 Author Posted February 3, 2009 Thanks Ms "P" Living single and alone here in the Staff NCO barracks tends to make you some-what lop-sided in your thinking?
Mz. Pixie Posted February 4, 2009 Posted February 4, 2009 Seriously you've got to let go of what she did that alienated you from those kids and start to try to build a relationship with them a little at a time.
Author Gunny376 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 My divorce for me? Wasn't about me? It was about my former wife's insecurties in herself? Someone had to bite the bullet and take one for the team, and I was Hell bent for leather and Hell to do so? My divorce was about the well-being and general well-fare of my children. So I gave the XHEX custody of the children, 25% of my net income, the tax deductions for the children, everything from a 12 year marriage, and took on the martial bills to include her car payment. Stupid I know, but I did it for the children. I figured I could move into the motel-room of the Staff NCO barracks, and eat in the chow-hall. But coming out of a 12 year marriage, family, wife, was damned hard. And so I ended up in a re-bound relationship for six and half years. Dumb I know ~ now in light of the such forums as LS and the inter-net. Meanwhile the XHEX is promoting the SD off as "________________done more for you than your Daddy has (With about $100k of my money!) Damn near 78% of my net income was going toward child support, taxes, back taxes, (the XHEX has backed-doored me with) and bills from the marriage? The XHEX even told me, "Well ______________ almost joined the Marines!" Almost? Almost? Well "almost only comes into account when you're Happy @ss almost got shot, or almost got laid!" And, yea I'm with you Ms. Pixie ~ I'm hearing you! Baby-steps Little steps! Slow and sure! Ditto with you Lakeside!
NoIDidn't Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 Baby-steps Little steps! Slow and sure! Ditto with you Lakeside! Okay. So, have you invited one of your kids to lunch or dinner yet? Just a little ice-breaker. No heavy conversation. Just "how have you been" and a lot of listening. Do they live close by or do you need to drive or fly a few hours to accomplish this? If you have to go out of your way to do it, it will pay in major brownie points!! And even if not, extending yourself to one of them will make the other curious - especially if the date goes well. Good luck, Gunny.
Author Gunny376 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 No They live less than 60 miles away from me? I just need some female imput here? Its not that I want to live my life for them, nor they for me? I just want to be a part of their lives and they part of mine. I know a lot of things about a lot of things. I've a lot to offer them, and to give them? Mom is your basic red-neck "Hell-Yell" mom and SD is your basic red-neck "good-old-boy" ~ same as me, BUT I went and got myself an education? I read Shakesphere, McBeth, did Algebra, Calculus, etc jusrt for the pursuirt of knowledge? I've no problem with the XHEX! He's being plaqyed a 'FOOL' by the X!
Author Gunny376 Posted February 5, 2009 Author Posted February 5, 2009 Seriously you've got to let go of what she did that alienated you from those kids and start to try to build a relationship with them a little at a time. I know MzP! I KNOW!
NoIDidn't Posted February 5, 2009 Posted February 5, 2009 No They live less than 60 miles away from me? I just need some female imput here? Its not that I want to live my life for them, nor they for me? I just want to be a part of their lives and they part of mine. I know a lot of things about a lot of things. I've a lot to offer them, and to give them? Then make that phone call and hop in the car! What ultimately helped me develop a R with my estranged father was him calling and telling me he was coming to take me out. I was a teen so he could do that. But that one *date* turned into a monthly thing for about a year while we added more to it. You've always sounded like you've wanted the best for your kids. I can't help but feel if you show them that you are interested in them (regardless of what they may have been told previously) that they will see that and start to come around. Do you know their favorite restaurants?
Author Gunny376 Posted February 6, 2009 Author Posted February 6, 2009 Seriously you've got to let go of what she did that alienated you from those kids and start to try to build a relationship with them a little at a time. I got my annual Social Security statement today, (You will get this at this age, you will receive this at this age, if you become disabled you will receive,....................{if you don't currently receive this, go down to the Social Sercuirty Office and sign up for it! Many people find out years and years later that former employeers don't or didn't pay their share of Social Security and Medicare taxes! ) It really made me think. Since I retired from the Corps, its been Hell finding a decent job{before the current economic situation}. Alabama isn't anything but nepotism. Its not just about what you know, but which family your born into, married into, and who you know! In 1996 my Social Security taxable income was $0, ( I was living off student loans, my retirement, and VA work study {non-taxable} while in college) I'm not about giving un-solicated advice, and I'm not trying to live my life through my children, nor my life for them. I don't have a problem with the SD, he's really a decent and good guy from what I know? He's taught my DS things that I've never been taught. And done things and spent time with him that I couldn't. I've no problem with him. Except to pity him for being married with and to the XHEX! The problem is with the XHEX! She's got issuses, which I don't have a problem with. She's insecure, selfish, self-indulging, materialistic, narristic, petty-minded, superstisic. I don't have a problem with it ~ simply because I don't give a damn! The problem is that its not about me! Its about you! My XHEX was a mistake of my youth! She's an Eighth-Grade drop-out! DHX3 is a HS graduate? (I think) Thanks to you MzPixie, I've realized that she and I are on different levels. That having this conversation with you, is totally different from having it with her!
Author Gunny376 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Posted February 7, 2009 Per MsPixie, I'm not really about promoting what I did, didn't do, nor suffered through. I didi what I had to do, scarified what I had to scrafice, suffered what I had to suffer. Lakeside knows what I'm talking about! Its called "sucking" it up and dealing with "it" OOrahhhhAA~
Author Gunny376 Posted February 7, 2009 Author Posted February 7, 2009 Seriously you've got to let go of what she did that alienated you from those kids and start to try to build a relationship with them a little at a time. Thanks you precious? PM with any ideas? Got the major five holidays down, thinking of sending the one and only DGS $25 a month for his college fund. Any ideas or thoughts you could PM me would be greatly appreciated! I'm not trying to run their lives, nor give un-soliciateded advice. I could just use a woman's point of view on this subject. I might add I've never said a bad word agaist their mother nor SF. (Although I've got myself a month of Sunday Preaching's againt them ) And its not my intention to cast myself as the perfedt Father, nor the perfect Husband, I was married to the Marine Corps first and foremost! I didn't know it at the time ~that I was a Gunny Highway? But, I was? And I was so Clint Eastwoood sitting on the Greyhound Bus reading "Cosmo" and such magazines! Yea! That was me! Saying WTF?
Author Gunny376 Posted February 8, 2009 Author Posted February 8, 2009 Alienation Suggesion As to ideas to garner your children's affection-- Began writing me a letter once a month, then once every two weeks. Just simple letters--no e-mail--about what your doing in your day to day life, things you enjoyed in life, fishing, tending to your horses, a funny thing here or there that he would share, some minor stressors in your life--little tidbits they have no way of knowing. Nothing heavy or overly emotional in these letters but opened up your life up to Them in a way they have never been interested in. Thanks tinkronik this is exactally the kind of suggestion I was looking for. IT'S PERFECT! Five bunnies for you me Lady! :bunny: :bunny: , no make that ten! :bunny: :bunny: Meets the criteria of re-building, focusing on the present, and future, ~ not the past. Baby-steps, persistence and consistency! BEAUTIFUL! SIMPLY BEAUTIFUL! Its not a quick-fix, over-night solution, but then again its not a quick-fix, over-night problem.
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