Gunny376 Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 This may get long, but I'll try and keep it breif. Eighteen years ago after having been gone for a year, I got back home from the first Gulf War, and was handed divorce papers by STBXW. This was back before the internet and such places as Loveshack. She wanted everything worth stealing from the twelve year marriage, child support, tax deducations for the two young children, for me to take on all of the martial debts. In exchange, she waviered off on any rights to my military retirement. (which under state law at the time she didn't have any rights to ~ its since been changed. I pretty much felt that being a carrer Marine and a man, and with the DD being 10 and DS being 6, and having just gotten from the First Gulf War that I had zero chance of getting custody? I knew divorce was Hell, and thought that I would be best by children if I took on as much of the load as I could. So I spent the balance of my time on leave with the children. Reported into my next duty station for the next four years of my twenty year carrer. Shortly after arriving, I get a letter from the IRS, telling me that I owe them $5000 in back taxes. I called them and told them I had filed married claiming four, but they told me that the XHEX had filed head of household claiming three. They said they had received hers first, and dis-allowed my "Married Claiming Four" re-computed my filing as "Single Claiming One" and that I owed them $5000 in back taxes plus penalities and interest! I'm aleady in a 23% tax bracket for regular payroll taxes, and paying out 25% of my net income, and now the IRS wants an additional $400 a month. That around 48% of my total income, and I've still got the bills from the marriage. So I called up the XHEX and told her I needed some help and relief somewhere with either the taxes, the child support, or the bills. She tells me "No-way Jose! I've got divorce papers!" I told her fine, that she left me no choice other than to file Chapter 7 bankruptcy and when I do, all of the bill collectors will be coming after her to include her car. (Yes I was even making her car payment ~ for the sake of the children) She tells me she's got "Divorce Papers" that say I"m responsible for all the maritial debt! I tell her, "Bankruptcy Court" is a federal court which supercedes state court judgements. Its beyond her comprehension. I file bankruptcy, and of course the bill collectors come after her, (and her new dumb@ss redneck third husband. Meanwhile the Marine Corps decides to send me here, there and everywhere on this and that deployment. At first because I'm the single "Gunny" and then when I do such a "bang-up" job I catch the eye of the top brass who tell me "When and where I go ~ YOU GO!" And I end up going a lot. Hurrican Andrew relief, Haiti, Cuba, Rwanda. In fact I deploy more my last four years than all the other sixteen years put together. I make matters worse, by going out and getting a new girlfriend (I should say "re-bounding into) who's a school teacher who tells me I can only have my children up for two weeks out of the year because she needs a break from "children" So I've got almost all of my income going out in child support, back taxes, regular payroll deduction taxes, and a car payment for a used junked
Tony T Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Gunny, is there more to the above post? It seems you left things dangling...your last sentence sort of stopped in the middle.
johan Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Gunny, is there more to the above post? It seems you left things dangling...your last sentence sort of stopped in the middle. Maybe he just got deployed again?
Author Gunny376 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Posted January 1, 2009 So I finish my "twenty" and retire, break up with the GF after six-and-a-half year relationship, come back home and take the wife back to court to half my child support reduced to two-thirds of what it was, (my income ~ retirement is a third of what I was making on active duty, and I'm still dealing with the single tax claiming one tax bracket, and child support. Child support is almost half my military retirement. Of course for the previous four years the XHEX and DHX3 are living it up at my expense. They're trading for new cars for her every two to three years. (six or eight ~ I've lost count) Of the course my children benefit from this financial arrangement, and don't go without. But they see this mana from heaven as coming from XHEX's husband No. #3. And she convices them even to refer to him as "Daddy" and my Grandson as "Granddaddy" I should add that XHEX No. # 3 has a son, whom he raised since birth till age four or five. The XHEX persuaded the stupid SOB not only to give up custody but his parential rights so he wouldn't have to pay child support! Of course the XHEX re-wrote the martial history, and the reason she gave me for divorcing me was "You need to change" and that I was a work-aholiac" She's been spoon feeding my children, (now grown) that """"" was more of a farther than I, and has done more for them than I. I called DD yesterday night and she told me, "****** has done more for me than you have!" WTF! I should have gone to Camp Lejuene and moved into the barracks and came down and spent as much time and with my young children and never gotten involved with someone else. That's hindsight, twenty-twenty. At frist I was seriously PO'd! But, she doesn't know half of the martial relationship, she's just been spooned-fed her mother's verision of what went down. I don't bad mouth my X, but her telling me such lifted a hugh bolder from my shoulders, because it made me reflect. I KNOW I didn't make all of the right choices, but I know I made many of them, and my children benefited from those choices. I know that when they say _________________they're just piping their Mama's words! I can go to my grave with a clear conscious! I know I did the right thing putting my children before me!
Author Gunny376 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Posted January 1, 2009 Gunny, is there more to the above post? It seems you left things dangling...your last sentence sort of stopped in the middle. Crazy Acer laptop! Has a mind of its own! I'm going back to an Apple!
Author Gunny376 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Posted January 1, 2009 Maybe he just got deployed again? LOL! Yep that's me! C140 running down the strip! Got to make another "little" trip! Stand up! Hook up, standing at tha' door Jump right out and yell "Marine Corps!"
Author Gunny376 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Posted January 1, 2009 I do believe I've answered my own question? In bitting the bullet? I've accomplished in giving my "young" the best start and chance in Life! They may not see it~ can never see it! Some gave all! All gave some!
Tony T Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 I can go to my grave with a clear conscious! I know I did the right thing putting my children before me! Yes, you did. But you don't always get credit for what you do for your kids or anyone else. It doesn't really matter what your wife has told yhem. Even in families that stay together, the children often don't appreciate the sacrifices parents make for them. Live for yourself and do what makes you happy. Don't be concerned about others' reactions, acknowledgments or expressions of appreciation. Divorce sucks in so many ways and many seemingly sweet people change instantly the minute those proceedings begin. It's downright scary but people are very primitive emotionally and otherwise when it comes down to splitting up and living thereafter. Don't even try to figure this all out. Just know you did your best and move on. One day your kids will figure it all out. Even if they don't, in the end it won't make a hell of a lot of difference.
skinman Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Gunny, I feel your pain friend... the same thing happened to me in my frist marriage. We were young and got married for all the wrong reasons we had a young daughter when we split up i guess she was almost 2 1/2 when it was finally over... My first wife thought i owed her the world for being with me those 3 years. She made my life hell for 6 to 7 years before she finally met someone and left me alone. During those early years after our divorce she took me to court every year to have my child support raised. it got to the point where she even had my daughter not wanting to come for visitation because of all the lies my ex put into her head.. Of cousre during this time my now stbxw came into the picture and was put into the middle of all this mess. See she has always held resentment towards my oldest daughter for what her mother put us through. Strained our marriage and you see where I am now... But the moral of the story is that my oldest daughter 21 finally did see all the effort and support i gave her and when all was said and done she knew that her mother had fed her lies so hopefully when your children reach the age they will look back and realize all that you did.. I know how much it hurts to feel like your efforts werent appreciated but they will come around, And like you say you can take heart in knowing that you did all that you could to make thier life better... Hang in there friend and Happy New Year to you Gunny !!!
tinktronik Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 I'm very sorry to hear all of this Gunny. It's a shame.
Author Gunny376 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Posted January 1, 2009 Thanks for the replies and support from all of you, and Happy New Year! DD is 28 and DS is soon to be 25. It actually lifted a hugh burden from me, in that I was "guilting" myself that I hadn't done and given enough in my marriage and somehow had let my children down. But I wasn't the one that cheated, and I gave 110% of what I had at the time. I as the best husband and father that I knew how to be at the time. Could I, would I be a better one today? You betcha' Live and learn. But it gave me cause to reflect, and I can honestly say what with 48% of my income going toward taxes and child support, the only way I could have gave more would have been to have sleep in a hollow log, drink muddy water and eat road kill! Again thanks for the replies ~ they mean a lot! :love: Just what I needed to put the past behind me and to move into a New Year!
PWSX3 Posted January 1, 2009 Posted January 1, 2009 Gunny we do not have a crystal ball so if you can say; yes I did the best I could with what I knew at the time then there is nothing else you can do..... Your kids do know what you did for them, they just might not express it but someday they will let you know..... Just look at who they are now & what they are doing & you had a lot to do with that......As long as you taught them good morals it will stick with them forever.... Happy New Years Gunny.....I wish you the best in 2009
Author Gunny376 Posted January 1, 2009 Author Posted January 1, 2009 Thank P and yes they're doing very well in life, and have good moral fiber, but they don't see the scarifices that I made for them. But I'm OK with that. I did my part even if they will never see that, because of their Mother's version of the truth? Its just a hugh burden that's been lifted from my shoulder, because it made me reflect, and gave me comfort in knowing that I gave and gave and gave all that I had for their benefit. Went through financial Hell, but they had a good and memorable childhood, did not go without, nor wanting for nothing. I would be willing to say that's true for most parents and their children. Happy New Year to you as well Bro!
Curmudgeon Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Gunny, I could write a book about parental alienation syndrome because it plagued me and my children for 11 years in some cases. All along I was paying monthly child support in four figures and for several years, spousal support as well. I also lost half my retirement funds. Let it suffice to say that now, 14 years after the marriage fell apart and it all began, I just retired two days ago, my wife and I are fine financially, I have close, loving relationships with all five of my children, their spouses where applicable, and all six of my grandchildren. The same applies to my wife, her two daughters and three grandchildren. As for the ex, she's broke, alone and none of the children want anything to do with her. Not what I would ever have wished for her but simply what is. Keep the faith and never give up hope!
pelicanpreacher Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Gunny, did you ever sit down with your children to explain how your ex's relationship started, how it killed the marriage, and what subsequent hardships you endured financially as a result of her actions and decisions?
Author Gunny376 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 Gunny, did you ever sit down with your children to explain how your ex's relationship started, how it killed the marriage, and what subsequent hardships you endured financially as a result of her actions and decisions? They had a front role seat to it all, ages 10 and 6 at the time now ages 28 and 25. What they don't understand was that 48% of my income was going out in taxes and child support. Of course the X completely re-wrote the history. She may be a HS dropout but she's street smart, an accomplished liar and cheat.
Author Gunny376 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 Thanks Curmudgeon, and yea I've read your posts before, and know a little of your story. I was hoping you would see this thread, and post a bit, and I know you're the resident duty expert on PA. I'm never going to give up, I've just got to figure something out. "Mama Bashing" isn't going to work that's for damned sure and certain. And "I did this and I did that, and I scarificed this" isn't going to work and is just going to fall on deaf ears. If I try and explain per centages of income that went toward this, that and other, (i.e. child support, taxes, back taxes, bills) their eyes just glaze over. They're step-father really isn't that bad of guy, from all that I seen and heard. He's eight years younger than the XHEX, which is why they're together, because she more or less calls the shots in the marriage ~ which why she and I are divorced more or less. I'm not going to be cuckholded to any woman. Not that its all my way, but its not you in charge, nor me in charge, but "we" in charge. Congrad's on the retirement BTW, when are you and Mrs. moving to Alabama!
Author Gunny376 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 Gunny, did you ever sit down with your children to explain how your ex's relationship started, how it killed the marriage, and what subsequent hardships you endured financially as a result of her actions and decisions? pp I still need your imput on the subject! Not that I'm a dumbass, but just because I want need your point of view on the subject!
pelicanpreacher Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Gunny, although your children were 10 and 6 while having a front row seat at the onset of your divorce I believe that your ex not only withheld all favorable actions you took on their behalf from them but, as you've already pointed out, spun some ugly stories about you to poison them against you to counter any negative fallout that should occur were you to inform them of their mother's infidelity, the pain it caused you, and how it destroyed your marriage. You remarked earlier about their eyes glazing over whenever you try to relate the facts about your financial hardships during this time but when you went through bankruptcy you'd better believe that all they remember was her constant beratement of you about the hardship she endured during this time so they came to believe her lie that you did this because you were selfish and only cared for yourself. She probably went as far as lieing and telling them that you never ever paid any child support and were a deadbeat dad so unless you show them documentation of what you endured they'll still side with their mother's opinion. When your GF forced you to limit your time with them I can bet your EX jumped all over that by telling them "see, I told you he didn't want you"! Don't look for her current husband to champion your cause or evidence these facts for it is in his best interest to remain in her good graces. I'd say that it would be in your best interest to dig up all documentation evidencing your child support and the IRS situation your EX selfishly caused which legally legally compelled you to file bankruptcy because of your EX's callous disreguard for how her greed was impacting your life and career. I would also hammer home that the only reason that the marriage fell apart was because their mother committed adultery and subsequently ran off with the other man while forcing you to finance their lifestyle through the generosity of the state mandated child support system which allowed her to spend lavishly on herself and new man by buying new cars every time she turned around. You, on the other hand, were forced to live out of a shoebox and get around with a 20 year old vehicle until the wheels fell off because her greed and zeal to keep you financially strapped prevented you from obtaining a home so that they could live with you and allow you shared parenting. As a matter of fact, they should know that the main reason that you were with your last GF so long was in the hopes that you would be able to build a lasting relationship with her and restore a sense of financial stability in your life which would've put you in a better position to accomodate their visits but she finally revealed her true colors by showing her resentment of your children because, as a school teacher, she didn't want children around during her vacation months. You dropped her for that reason and gave up on your dreams again which is why you are still alone today! Remind them that the financial sacrifice you willingly made in their stead all those years was their primary support so whatever minimal trinkets their Stepfather provided was pure gravy and completely meaningless for anyone can throw a bone when they're living off of someone else's dime. Let them know that up until now you've kept a still tongue about all that happened for you thought that sooner or later their mother would feel remorse for what she did and finally come clean to them. Since she hasn't but, instead, still continues to spread lies to cover her own despicable disgrace, you felt it was time to set the record straight once and for all. Tell them that because of your EX you were forced to live a hard, saddened, and lonely life of shattered dreams and regret, that you wished that you had never met her, and that you hate her and will never forgive her for the betrayal and the lies that she's told until the end of your days. If there be a GOD she shall be bound by your oath and never know heaven for she shall burn in hell for all eternity. Last but not least, let them know that even if they don't appreciate any of what you did for them or the hardships you endured on their behalf they'd better beware for there are people out in this world, just like their mother, who would do to them what she did to you by tearing their world apart and poisoning all those around them with lies and betrayal so they'd better be careful to remember the lessons of everything that happened to their real father lest they face the horror of having to live it themselves! (Let their eyes glaze over to that!!!)
Trimmer Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Gunny - With all respect to pelicanpreacher's heartfelt sermon, I don't think this is a "battle" you will win with grenades, bullets, blood and sweat. This is hearts and minds territory here... The bond your kids have built up with their mom is strong, and they have built their lives around ithat relationship since they were 6 and 10. If anything threatens that, threatens those core beliefs, they will very naturally resist having that core shaken. So any way of forcing them to change their views - realizing that their mom committed adultery, how much she contributed to the marriage breakup, the wrongs she did afterward, etc. - is doomed to fail; it is human nature to put up defenses in the face of information that threatens your core beliefs, and if that information is whistling in like artillery shells, then it makes it even more imperative to defend strongly against it. The harder you push, pretty soon they're putting up emergency defenses subconsciously just for the sake of guarding against the offensive (eyes glazing over, anyone???) in spite of the factual and historical accuracy of the incoming information. I suggest that anything you do has to recognize that your kids need to preserve their basic core beliefs, at least initially, in order to preserve their own emotional stability. Let me repeat that, because it's not about being nice to your ex or the step-dad just for the sake of being nice - it's about your kids' need to keep their balance and not have their world-view shaken too much all at once. So if your primary goal is to open their eyes to "what mom has done," I think that isn't going to work, and going down that path of exposing the 'real her' isn't even a good way to get to where you really are trying to go. I get the sense that this isn't probably what you're after anyway; correct me if I'm wrong, but I bet the real, fundamental point here isn't so much to get them to turn against her, or even to force them to realize what sacrifices you've made, so much as to establish a connection with them that has been lacking through the years? If that's really it, then I wonder if you can accomplish that - or at least set out on that journey - without having to chip away at the ex. What I'm imagining is an approach (and maybe you've already tried this...) where you try to open the lines of communication with them in ways that don't threaten their existing bonds with mom and step-dad, etc. Let them know that you care, that you love them, that you've always been there for them, all that stuff, but without taking an inherent stand against their mom. Now, know that they probably have a warped view of your participation in their lives, and accept that you are working against that, and look for ways to fill in the blanks for them. But approach it not from the angle of tearing down their mother, but rather from the angle of "here's my perspective, here's what I've done, here's why I did it, and I want to make a connection..." Correct any misperceptions they present with your honest perspective - how did it look from your side - why did you do what you did, but leave your perceptions of their mom and her actions out of it to the degree possible. Sidestep your impressions of her as a spouse and an ex-spouse while, if possible, showing respect to her position as their mother. Deliver your honest perspective and your truth as it relates to them, let them hear it, and give them the biggest leap of faith of all: trust that they will eventually question and ask for the truth themselves. I don't know if I'm getting it across, but if you can entice them with your perspective in a way that makes it safe for them to talk to you, to ask you about things, then they may begin to open up with you. A big part of this is your acceptance of whatever their current status is: you have to accept the fact of their close bond with their mother, and whatever their relationship is with step-dad, and you have to be truly willing, in your heart, not to want to tear those things down. Again, even showing some respect for the "mother" and "step father" characters may help make it safe for them to open up a bit. Recognize that those are important relationships to the people that your children have become, and that there will be more of a chance for them to make room in their hearts if they perceive that you are not a threat to those relationships. So I guess, in a way, I'm suggesting a sort of a fishing exercise. Make contact, offer them whatever you have to offer - I wonder if they don't deep down wonder about their father, and long for some connection themselves - and let them know that you will be there. Then, if they reach out, you will need to make it safe for them to change their opinion of you as a father, by not threatening their existing relationships with mom and step-dad... I know it sounds all touchy-feely, but knowing how their mother and step-father relationships are now built into their lives, simply trying to cut into that with "the truth" is going to meet with some significant resistance. People will go to great lengths to avoid having their core beliefs attacked, but if they can safely explore to satisfy a curiosity that may already be there - just who is "Dad", really? - maybe there's your way to make a connection. Instead of forcing upon them what you need, try offering them something they may want to explore.....
Author Gunny376 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 Thanks for your consideration and advice in regards to this. I agree that a full frontal assualt and presentation of the facts will not work. There's facts and then there's preception ~ and that's what I'm up against is preception which seldom has anything to do with actual fact. The SF is actually a decent guy from all that I've seen and understand. But just your basic good old boy. Both he and the XHEX are marginally educated and operated raw gut emotion. Thanks for both of your posts, its given me food for thought. Especially about the social dynamic of the situation. I believe that its just going to take time, patience, and diplomacy and my offering a different alternative. I'm quite aware that I'm dealing with "bi-polar logic" in that in their eyes its a black or white, yes or no choice of them or me.
tinktronik Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Thanks for your consideration and advice in regards to this. I agree that a full frontal assualt and presentation of the facts will not work. There's facts and then there's preception ~ and that's what I'm up against is preception which seldom has anything to do with actual fact. The SF is actually a decent guy from all that I've seen and understand. But just your basic good old boy. Both he and the XHEX are marginally educated and operated raw gut emotion. Thanks for both of your posts, its given me food for thought. Especially about the social dynamic of the situation. I believe that its just going to take time, patience, and diplomacy and my offering a different alternative. I'm quite aware that I'm dealing with "bi-polar logic" in that in their eyes its a black or white, yes or no choice of them or me. Could you be happy with the idea that your children have chosen to forever see their SF as "Father"? They have obviously been taught that what he did defines father. Would you be okay in the role of Gunny-- just who you are-- without the title of father? The more you push against this the more your children may pull away. I'm still a young person and dealing with many of the same issues you are but in the early stages. What would you do differently?
Author Gunny376 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 REgardless of any external validation I am and will always be the Father/Daddy regardless. I had a step-mother, who self proclaiming did more for me than my Mother. I knew from her for 32 years, and never saw her as more than my Father's second wife. Sure as Hell, when he passed, I've not seen nor heard from her for the last five years. Its all smoke and mirrors and pure BS. No one cares about you like your natural parents, (and in some cases not even they) But once your parents are gone you're going to have a hard time finding true un-conditional love, and your pretty much on your own in life. What would I have done differntly? I would have gone to Camp Lejeune, moved into the Staff NCO barracks (think living in a motel room for four years ~ pretty depressing after having a wife, family, children, and home for the previous twelve years) and came down to Alabama and seen and spent as much time as I could. Instead I "re-bounded" into another relationship instead of sucking it up and going cold turkey. But as I said its hard going from being married to being cold stone single and alone in a new place devoid of even acquaintences let alone friends.
Author Gunny376 Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 I'm still a young person and dealing with many of the same issues you are but in the early stages. What would you do differently? To the fullest extent possible put your children to and keep them to the forefront of your life and top prioties even it means you have to forego intimate relationships with others.
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