Author mytruelove Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 thank you all for the insight. it is definitely food for thought. it is always good to have people give you a needed reality check and unbiased insight that you might not have in a situation. with that being said...don't misunderstand. i'm a tough cookie when need be. i have given this guy a run for his money believe me. i know you all might not see it all, BUT there are two people in the relationship and i have my own responsibility in it's success or failure. i have my own weaknesses and shortcomings, my own faults, and my own baggage that i struggle not to bring into it. when he gets fed up with me (as i do him) i understand. we talk about it and seem to have a way of doing what it takes to maintain our "basic" foundation (as challanged and rocked as it is). what has he done for me? he has made me happier than i have ever been in my life. he has shown me what a real relationship is and how it can be worked. he brought back a girl from the dead that was literally numb without feeling for many years. he helped me find myself again and truly...he is the most patient, forgiving man i have ever met. he's shown me understanding as no other has. he is the most sensitive man i have ever met. he's the first person that has really gotten me. now, all of the above, i have done for him also. does he have quirks, baggage galore, and issues-yes. i guess you could say i have an conditional love and understanding of these things with him. what i am saying above really, is a way for me to be able to be okay with what is going on at this point in time. a way to get through it without myself going crazy. i thought back to the times when him and i were really good and it was those times. accepting things as they are right now and working with them. will that mean that i need to walk away from him for a period of time to really get what i want? - very possibly. i will not settle. i will not. that is why the push and pull between him and i right now. he knows i want more. he knows he will have to step up to the plate. there are no excuses. he will or he won't. i have to be okay with that. i've seen what being tough gets me. i've seen what pushing, sufficating, and being stubborn gets me. i've also seen what being understanding and caring and a willingness to work through things has gotten me and unconditional love has gotten me. it is so funny you mention settling. believe it or not, making the choice to take a risk with him was the very first time in my life that i didn't settle. for the very first time, i knew exactly what i wanted and went for it. i don't regret that. not for a minute. anyway, very good reminder on not making excuses to accept less than what i deserve and am worth. i really do have to make sure i don't do this and that i keep the ulitmate goal in mind. you sometimes have to sacrifice temporarly to get more in the end. i've just had to find my center again as it has been lost for a while now and i think i've taken a step in that direction. i understand most here have suffered great hurt and i now know the hurt that can be experienced. i don't want to become jaded though and no matter what i still want to have hope and faith. thank you all so much.
norajane Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 i agree with everything you said except for me being scared to tell him how i feel. I was just quoting YOU: i should not be so scared about telling someone how i feel, especially him. If you have to work up the courage to tell him how you really feel, that's fear that you'll push him away or lose him if you are honest and open about how you feel. And there's something very wrong with that. i've decided to go back to square one with SM and start over. i'm reminded that we do much better when things don't get too serious. yes, we have much needed serious conversations. but, i do much better when i treat the "moments" with him as just that "moments". hopefully we can build on that. You do realize that those "moments" are only possible when you accept ONLY what he offers, and drop all YOUR needs and wants? You do much better that way because his needs are met while yours are unaddressed and that's much nicer for him. As soon as you express a need, then things go badly. what has he done for me? he has made me happier than i have ever been in my life. he has shown me what a real relationship is and how it can be worked. he brought back a girl from the dead that was literally numb without feeling for many years. he helped me find myself again and truly...he is the most patient, forgiving man i have ever met. he's shown me understanding as no other has. he is the most sensitive man i have ever met. he's the first person that has really gotten me. Then maybe he has served his purpose and his purpose in your life is DONE. He brought you back from the dead, and now that he's the one causing your problems, it's time to move on and carry on with the life you have without him, and eventually with someone new.
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 i have my own responsibility in it's success or failure. As does he. Problem is, he still is in a position where he isn't totally free to pursue an out in the open relationship with you. He is calling the shots, seeing you when he sees fit. On his terms, not yours.
torranceshipman Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I can see that he has 100% served his purpose, then...and the thing is you talk about him stepping up to the plate and so on, but that is delusional thinking on your part (hey, we've all been there!) - making out in our minds that there is more to a R than there really is. There's no way you are telling him to step up to the plate as the only way you can even see him is if you make yourself a compliant sweet little lady ready to jump when he says jump - that right there is you completely losing your center, which you say you're trying to get back right now.... Honestly 2009 is a great start to lose negative aspects of your life (him) and move forward proudly - find your center like you said you wanted to and put some positives back into your life.
Author mytruelove Posted January 2, 2009 Author Posted January 2, 2009 can you guys see i get very defensive when defending him -lol. i'm fiercely protective and loyal when it comes to him. i have his back and he's had mine - at least until some more recent things which cause me to question his character and caused me to not trust him as much - which have been addressed and will continue to be addressed. i understand where you are coming from. really i do and yes torrance "find your center like you said you wanted to and put some positives back into your life. " i plan on doing just that. however, knowing him, knowing how he reacts to situations, i think we have to give a little lead way. the guy did just go through a major life change. he did have the strength and courage to get out of a relationship that was bad for him. most of these guys never do the right thing and leave the relationship. i think it is natural that he is a little freaked out. it can't be easy and he seems to be improving, little by little and it hasn't really been that long. none of that means that i can't demand what i need and deserve. in no way should he be crossing the line to disrespect or throwing me under the bus. that is unacceptable in all accounts. he isn't someone i can just discard and i don't believe he's served his purpose. i really don't. i've been in love with him for 9 years - in and out of relationships - major life changes-depression, etc. does it hurt to see him regress in some areas such as closing off his heart again which is where he was at when i met him - yeah, especially when i've worked so hard to help him in those areas, but i don't think it is a permanent thing.
whichwayisup Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 Put a time limit on this. He does need time to sort things out on his own and that may mean not putting you first or working on and letting the relationship grow. Right now he have it in him to give 100%. Can you see yourself with him as a normal and out in the open couple by spring or summer? I ask because you need to have time set for your own sanity. You don't want to be where you are now in 6 months, or another year from now.
Reggie Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I think if your relationship started out as an affair, there is a decent likeliehood that he will never view it as a legitimate relationship and you will be relegated to this second class satus for the duration. If he has any type of conscience, he may have guilt and shame eating at him which causes him to want to avoid you and avoid having you in his kids lives. I expect that this relationship, since it was forged in dishonesty, is unhealthy , based on lies, and will die. Perhaps you should consider getting therapy and , when you are healthy, finding a single guy that is honest. Good luck in that regard.
You'reasian Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 thank you all for the insight. it is definitely food for thought. it is always good to have people give you a needed reality check and unbiased insight that you might not have in a situation. with that being said...don't misunderstand. i'm a tough cookie when need be. i have given this guy a run for his money believe me. i know you all might not see it all, BUT there are two people in the relationship and i have my own responsibility in it's success or failure. i have my own weaknesses and shortcomings, my own faults, and my own baggage that i struggle not to bring into it. when he gets fed up with me (as i do him) i understand. we talk about it and seem to have a way of doing what it takes to maintain our "basic" foundation (as challanged and rocked as it is). what has he done for me? he has made me happier than i have ever been in my life. he has shown me what a real relationship is and how it can be worked. he brought back a girl from the dead that was literally numb without feeling for many years. he helped me find myself again and truly...he is the most patient, forgiving man i have ever met. he's shown me understanding as no other has. he is the most sensitive man i have ever met. he's the first person that has really gotten me. now, all of the above, i have done for him also. does he have quirks, baggage galore, and issues-yes. i guess you could say i have an conditional love and understanding of these things with him. what i am saying above really, is a way for me to be able to be okay with what is going on at this point in time. a way to get through it without myself going crazy. i thought back to the times when him and i were really good and it was those times. accepting things as they are right now and working with them. will that mean that i need to walk away from him for a period of time to really get what i want? - very possibly. i will not settle. i will not. that is why the push and pull between him and i right now. he knows i want more. he knows he will have to step up to the plate. there are no excuses. he will or he won't. i have to be okay with that. i've seen what being tough gets me. i've seen what pushing, sufficating, and being stubborn gets me. i've also seen what being understanding and caring and a willingness to work through things has gotten me and unconditional love has gotten me. it is so funny you mention settling. believe it or not, making the choice to take a risk with him was the very first time in my life that i didn't settle. for the very first time, i knew exactly what i wanted and went for it. i don't regret that. not for a minute. anyway, very good reminder on not making excuses to accept less than what i deserve and am worth. i really do have to make sure i don't do this and that i keep the ulitmate goal in mind. you sometimes have to sacrifice temporarly to get more in the end. i've just had to find my center again as it has been lost for a while now and i think i've taken a step in that direction. i understand most here have suffered great hurt and i now know the hurt that can be experienced. i don't want to become jaded though and no matter what i still want to have hope and faith. thank you all so much. Reading what you've said, I think the two of you will have a wonderful, joyous, loving and reciprocating 2009. Now go forth, love each other and practice making those babies
jj33 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 MTL you are seriously in denial. But that is OK. Everyone at some point in his or her life has been in a relationship that wasnt good for them and INSISTED that the rest of the world didnt understand. That their love would make the difference. That they were somehow to blame for the fact that the relationship wasnt meeting their needs and if they were just a little bit better a little more this or that... it would all work out in time. Everyone goes through a period where they think it may not work out for 99% of the world but I will be the exception. And that is OK to think that. If people didnt beleive in their ability to be the exception, then there would be a lot less innovation alot less risk taking. I hope you are right and that your guy is more involved in the situation and more committed to you than the rest of us think he is. But from the outside it really doesnt look good. I dont say that to be unkind I say it to be kind. Because sometimes our best intentions take us down the wrong road. And this looks like the wrong road. Being positive and believing the best etc is great when its well placed. But in this case it seems like placing your heart in this man's hands... its like casting pearls before swine. He just doesnt appreciate the jewel he is receiving.
You'reasian Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 I think there's information that the OP is privy to that gives her confidence to make the decision. Perhaps an occasion or two where the man in question demonstrated his trustworthiness and watched her back early on where most people's actions/behavors when questioned would backpeddle and come out with "It wasn't my intention to be in a relationshp!!" From what I gather, this man has been interested in her for some time and she him.
jj33 Posted January 2, 2009 Posted January 2, 2009 maybe and I hope you are right but those moments are not a lifelong guarantee of love and fidelity. And they dont mean that the person wont change their mind about how they feel about you. Its not a question of what have you done for me lately, but when those loving gestures dont innoculate a relationship for life. There needs to be more consistent behaviour than the OP has shared with us. Again I hope you are right and that there are actions on his part that she has not shared with us that warrant the trust she is placing in him.
Myusername Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 MTL WOw parts of your situation or the way you describe yourself and your man, sound freakishly familiar to how my situation was or is, on a much much smaller scale. DAMN perhaps its the same guy...lol..(God forbid..lol) My situation does not compare so I am not trying to take anything away from you, but i can say I TOTALLY understand how you feel and what you see, feel for him. Funny cause I always tell people I AM A TOUGH COOKIE and that my xmm was the only one i ever felt that way about, and could walk away from anything, and had, but not him. I hope and pray it goes well and in time u find deep love with him out in the open...and it works. I know its hard waiting and wondering...and I just wanted to be positive and send good thoughts, instead of saying you are setting yourself up for failure, because who really knows. I mean I realize to the outside world it seems unlikely things will work for you and him, and who knows..but it does not matter, you love him and have deep history and even if 50 people told you to walk away, your heart wont let you, at least not right now. SO all I can say is God bless and I hope you find happiness...even if it turns out not to work, you heart is too wrapped in him to go right now..even if you should..but who really determines that,,,ONLY YOU can, its your life. Live, love and please just keep looking out for you....and protect YOU HUGS MUN
You'reasian Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 maybe and I hope you are right but those moments are not a lifelong guarantee of love and fidelity. And they dont mean that the person wont change their mind about how they feel about you. Its not a question of what have you done for me lately, but when those loving gestures dont innoculate a relationship for life. There needs to be more consistent behaviour than the OP has shared with us. Again I hope you are right and that there are actions on his part that she has not shared with us that warrant the trust she is placing in him. Agreed. You can collect and think through other's advice, take in what your own 6 senses are telling you and listen to your gut feeling - but the only way to find out if a relationship will work is if you do it.
frannie Posted January 3, 2009 Posted January 3, 2009 i still have a Christmas present waiting him and would love nothing more than to get some time with him before tomorrow. i talked to him this morning and told him to call me if he wanted to hang out tonight. he didn't really seem opposed to the idea, but had to get off the phone because he was at work. i want to call him at the end of the day to see if he wants to. i don't know if i should though because i already told him to call me if he wanted. i've suggested that we could hang out at his place, no big deal, see how that works. i don't want to push.. i don't want to beg... i don't know if he is ready to have me come hang out at his house, but he sounded like he might be close to it. ... because of the dynamics of us starting out as an "affair" it has most times (not all) been me that always calls or initiates contact- which can truly get exhausting and frustrating as can be, but i don't want to lose our connection. i have really pulled back on this since it was getting too much and if it weren't for the holiday i might just be able to let it go. ... a time when i had decided to give my marriage one last try. i had put my wedding ring back on (this was even before we had anything physical) and SM saw it and the look in his face just killed me. i hurt him bad. he didn't have to say a word- just walked away, looked me straight in the eyes and said " i need one month away from you. " ... we got together after 30 days and he forgave me and we moved forward. mtl I haven't followed your story too closely, but I was just musing over your first few posts on this thread. I was just wondering if you're sure that all is forgotten or dealt with regarding the 'ring back on the finger' episode. Did you do a lot of talking about it? Or did you just not speak for 30 days and it was over? Because that surely will have caused a few issues that need to be resolved? Secondly, you say you're the one who's always done all the calling and so on. So he's used to that, used to just not calling back because he knows you'll call again... easy to take that for granted (and maybe especially if he's still harbouring some hurt from the ring thing?). And thirdly, did you absolutely state that you wanted to see him on NYE and that it was important to you, or just, as it seems here, vaguely suggest it and 'hope' that he'd pick up what it means to you? Because I'm wondering if there could be some serious miscommunication of needs going on here? You say you don't want to 'push' or 'beg'... but did you actually say you'd love to see him and it would mean so much to you..? Because if you did say that and he didn't call back, then you have a very clear message. If you didn't... if you just acted all 'don't mind one way or the other', then you're just going to continue to be confused. Anyway, they were just some ideas I had when reading your posts.
Author mytruelove Posted January 4, 2009 Author Posted January 4, 2009 you'reasian - i can't thank you enough for responding on this thread. you post gave me something special when i was feeling very down and discouraged. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!! and somehow it's also given me courage to do some things that i've been trying to do for awhile but haven't really had the courage. your post gave me courage, hope, and belief in love. to answer, yes, there have been times when SM has been stood by me when others would have easily jumped ship-more than one -lots, and, yes, we have been interested in each other for a long time and i could tell that he was interested in me for a very long time - 9 years and he also saved me from myself a lot of times also, almost like he knew me better than myself. he could very easily have had sex with me much sooner than he did, but he waited over a year until i was ready. he has taken just as much risk as i have to be in the relationship together as i have, at times even more, or before i did. i do worry about the guilt issue and the beginning as an affair, also, we've discussed the affair part (he doesn't seem to have reservations about my character at least that he expresses- he denies that he has any reservations about it at all), we also discussed the guilt part, but only when we first started as i did not want to do anything physical with him if he had any guilt. in the beginning he did and so we did not have sex...a year later when we decided we finally wanted to be together physically, the guilt was discussed again and he stated that he no longer had guilt. the ring incident was discussed between us and i went out of my way to express to him how very sorry i was and how i would never ever hurt him like that again. as far as new years, i didn't really state that i wanted to see him. i knew he would have the kids and if i got to see him i did, if i didn't i didn't. i just said i was disappointed i didn't get to see him because it didn't work out with work in the morning. also, i am backing off greatly because i want to respect his wishes and, yes, i'm sure the phone thing and me initiating everything has gotten very comfortable for him. like was said, i just don't know how to turn that around exactly. we did discuss it a while back when it became an issue of him sometimes not answering my calls. when i told him it was a problem for me he started answering pretty much (if not all the time) my calls. so like i said, i call, he answers and he really doesn't have to be the one to call because i do. -hope that makes sense. thanks so much everyone!!!
whichwayisup Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 9 years and he also saved me from myself a lot of times also, almost like he knew me better than myself. he could very easily have had sex with me much sooner than he did, but he waited over a year until i was ready. What I don't understand is, 9 years you've known him and he never made a move until you were ready (waited a year) but isn't it abit odd that he made the move while he was still in a relationship? Why on earth didn't he END things first before making a move on you? so like i said, i call, he answers and he really doesn't have to be the one to call because i do. -hope that makes sense. So maybe you need to stop calling, give afew days in between and let him be the one calling you. He won't call until he misses you and has a chance to.. as far as new years, i didn't really state that i wanted to see him. i knew he would have the kids and if i got to see him i did, if i didn't i didn't. i just said i was disappointed i didn't get to see him because it didn't work out with work in the morning. He knew that you wanted to be with him on New Years Eve..How could he not? i talked to him on the phone wishing him a happy new year and i wrote him a email telling him that i was disappointed we didn't get to see each other and how i feel that the people you have around you at new years are the people that are going to be with you the rest of the year. i told him that he meant alot to me and he is someone that i want around in the new year. that simple.
ali0112 Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 I've lurked on this site for about nine months or so, and have read a lot of threads. I have my own issues as a former OW, but the two threads that make me the saddest AND the maddest are those of MyTrueLove and LadyCakes. These two ladies are so hopeful, but are going to be so disappointed. I can sympathize with their hopefulness, but I agree with every bit of the good advice that has been given them, that they repeatedly choose to ignore. They are both going to be devastated. They choose to believe that they will be the exception, but they won't. In MTL'S situation, he doesn't love her. He's told her time and time again that he doesn't want a relationship, but she believes that she knows better than he does what he needs. And others, such as jj33, has said, "he's just not that into her". She will NEVER be the love of his life, as he is to her. She will continue to want that, and he will simply see her when he needs a physical fix. "MyTrueLove" will never have her love. He will never put her first, or make her a priority in his life. I'm sorry to say that, as a newcomer, but I believe it to be true. And it's sad. And I believe that "Ladycakes'" situation is just more of the same.
whichwayisup Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 This is why I did post 31 and asked MTL to put a time limit on this. I would hate to read that she's still in the same place as she is now by summer or fall.
jj33 Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 MTL Now you need to take the most important step. STOP CHASING HIM You should never have to tell a man to answer your calls You should never be in a position where you do all the initiating Stop calling him for the month of January if he doesnt contact you during that time, you have your answer, if he starts contacting you, then you will have changed the dynamic That does not mean that you should start contacting him again. It only means that the dynamic will be more balanced. I dont care how much he has stood by you in the past, as WWIU has said you are both unmarried and its been 9 years. That is at least 8 years too long. You need to take charge of this and create the life you want - NOT by continuing to pursue him but by allowing him to pursue you.
frannie Posted January 4, 2009 Posted January 4, 2009 the ring incident was discussed between us and i went out of my way to express to him how very sorry i was and how i would never ever hurt him like that again. as far as new years, i didn't really state that i wanted to see him. i knew he would have the kids and if i got to see him i did, if i didn't i didn't. i just said i was disappointed i didn't get to see him because it didn't work out with work in the morning. also, i am backing off greatly because i want to respect his wishes and, yes, i'm sure the phone thing and me initiating everything has gotten very comfortable for him. like was said, i just don't know how to turn that around exactly. Well maybe he's 'over' the ring episode and all that it represents. If you didn't say you wanted to see him or how much it meant to you then you can't draw any real conclusions about it, I don't think. People view the world in different ways, and one person's ideal NYE isn't the same as another's. One person's ideal might be romantic dinner and two champagne glasses at midnight, another is getting rat-faced with his mates in the middle of the city, another's is being in bed with his dogs and ignoring the entire thing. I think it's the same as gifts - some people hang everything on whether or not they get a great gift from someone, completely unbeknownst to the potential giver. It doesn't give them a chance... I personally think you have to say what it means, and THEN if they still act in the same way, then you know where you stand. No use expecting people (esp. men) to mind read. Regarding him not contacting you and how to turn that round. Stop doing the hard work. If he wants to see you he'll then have to make the effort himself. You need to stop calling him, and stop following up on him not calling by calling him again! Just don't call him, full stop. On the other hand, some things just can't be turned round... if you start off having a relationship where you're doing the chasing... then the other person is really going to expect you to continue. Never get involved with a bloke who doesn't call at all, doesn't call when he says he'll call, etc. etc. it just ends up being a MAJOR irritant. These tests need to be done right at the beginning, because if he can't be bothered then, he's not going to be bothered in 5 years
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