tiburontropic Posted December 30, 2008 Posted December 30, 2008 I have been with this women for 6 years, I am 33 and she is 26. Let me start off with the issue that put the icing on the cake for me. I had asked her about a month ago how she still owed on her credit cards. She said 10,000 and she only makes 19,000 a year. So I had said, you have to be kidding me, I thought you were paying on your cards. Her credit debt really started to go up after 3 years into the relationship, I had many talks with her that she needs to stop putting anything on them and pay it down. I hadn't asked her about for a year, I thought I would let her take care of it. She wants to get married and have kids eventually. At this point I am not sure if I want to wait on her to get her debt down. I am not super young anymore and we have already been dating for 6 years and don't want to turn this into 10 years. I sometimes feel I have given her a lot of chances and if she wanted to really turn it into marriage she wouldn't have done this. I had told her many times how I feel about worthless debt like that. I am a very proactive person and she is a reactive person. She is the type of person that I always have to motivate to do something. I have had several long tear filled talks with her about this is making our relationship suffer. We have always gotten along great, harldy ever argued and had great times. I do love her, but I am not sure that I am in love with her anymore. I also feel teribble guilt when I think about moving on and leaving her. I feel like I am leaving a baby on a door step. She has told me that if I am not happy, then leave her. That makes me feel even worse, especially when she had said that she would be so lonely without me. I guess my biggest issue besides the debt, is that I feel we haven't gained anything in 6 years in that relationship. She still owes a ton of money after 6 years, we are not engaged or married. I wouldn't mind if its a car loan, school loan or a house payment. I just don't know if I want to wait for her to pay it down. I have even had talks with her recently that if it takes her too long, I might not want to have kids after we get married if I am too old. That is one major dream of hers. I just feel like we have went backwards instead of forwards in the relationship. I am just angry and dissapointed with everything. I am just confused!!!!
Geishawhelk Posted December 30, 2008 Posted December 30, 2008 Nope. Deal-breaker. As a married couple your debts suddenly become joint.....! How would you like a poor credit label against your name through no fault of your own....? I think you have to talk to her and lay it on the line. Either she clears her debts, or there's a finishing line in sight. Get her to give you her ccs and cut them up. She needs to know how to handle a budget. Also, someone who over-spends, or spends money as therapy, has something missing from their lives. All points to ponder.....
Author tiburontropic Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 I am just having a tough time because now she says that she'll get a second job and pay down the 10,000 in credit debt. We have already dated for 6 years and I fear this going into a 10 year relationship with no marriage and kids. As I had explained, she had said that she was paying it down and I found out that she hadn't, it actually went up. She told me the other night that she spent money at Walmart, Ebay and Sephora and has nothing to show for it. So now I have trust issues, I asked her that do I have to check every reciept and credit statement. She said no, she has changed, I somehow doubt that. She only makes 19,000 a year, so thats what is scary. I am full of emotions: hurt, anger, guilt, frustration and confusion. I can't think clear or sleep well. I had hoped that she would have payed down some of her debt. She said the other day that, that since I am older she looks up to me, which I found disturbing. Thinking about breaking up with her makes me feel guilty, like I am leaving a child on a strangers door step. I was hoping this year to get engaged, but now I am in question about ever being able to do that. I was going to get her a $10,000 ring, one of her friends said buy her a 5,000 one and pay 5,000 on her debt. Then I said, I am throwing away 5,000 and would have nothing to show for it. I was always taught a person has to take resposibility for his or her actions and paying it off for her would not teach her anything, or even help the next guy if there is one. I try to have serious talks with her about it, but she just claims I have a problem because of my families past with money issues in the early 80's. She had said I maybe need to get some help. Then that really made me angery. I can't make any head way talking her, because we just keep going in circles. I feel like just beating my head against the wall, because I may get more done. I told her this past weekend I need some alone time to think, but she kept calling me, them I felt I had to return her calls. I am just frustrated!!!!!!!!!!
RM0123 Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 It is so odd to read your post. My boyfriend just broke up with me because he is not at the same place I am. Only our situation is reversed. He was a late bloomer so to speak and is now in his first semester of law school. I however, have finished my MA in Speech Pathology and have a very well paying job. I also was the one providing the money in this relationship. He comes from a wealthy family but never had spending money of his own. What hurts so bad for me now, is that he broke up with me on Tuesday saying "I deserve better" because I want to get married and have kids soon and he is not there yet. We actually are supposed to be going on a cruise that I paid for in the morning but are not going now because he broke it off with me. His wealthy parents are paying for it. One thing I have learned is that your partner is going to have to show you she is serious about change. Words aren't enough.
starzphalling Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 Thinking about breaking up with her makes me feel guilty, like I am leaving a child on a strangers door step. ok so I might sound crazy here, but this is the part of your post that caught me. to me, you're saying that you feel like you have to take care of her like a child, and if you bring in the debt...it sounds like you kind of have been. even though it sounds on the surface, deep down her issues with the credit cards are all about responsibility. right now this is what she feels like she can spend on her salary....what is she gonna do when she knows she has access to yours? and like geisha said, she needs to be able to follow a budget. to me she does not seem like a safe bet. no matter how much people want to think it love is NOT enough. right now, in your position, there is no way I would trust her with my money. I'm all for you sitting her down and telling her she has to grow up and get the spending/debt under control. Honestly someone with 10k in debt should NOT be shopping at sephora for makeup or w/e else she found there, when you're poor walgreens is just as good. do you two live together? if so how do you split up bills/food? because if you do, and you cover a lot of it, and she hasn't paid anything off....RUN AWAY. you might say you feel like you are leaving a child on a doorstep, but she's your girlfriend, not your kid, you're not responsible for her issues, she's a big girl now and if she can't figure out that if she only has 5 dollars, she can't buy a 10 dollar meal....that's not your issue...its her irresponsibility.
Author tiburontropic Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 In this relationship I pay for almost everything, then if she pays for something I have to ask where the money is coming from. She lives at home. She had a 4 year degree as a math teacher, she is not stupid by any means, just no common sense. She just lacks motivation in life, I have to be there for her to do anything practically. She had a teaching job that paid $33,000 a year and she thought that she was rich, so spent like it. That is what really started to get her in trouble. Then she got laid off after the first year. I told her 2 months before school was out start looking for a good job. She waited till her teaching pay ran out in August to look for one and ended up with a $10.50 hour job. Her mom got her got there family in credit debt and her dad had to take a second morgage to pay it off, so now he can't retire. That makes me worry even more. I'mm 33 and it make me worry that will she ever straighten up. I don't want to be 40 and have my first child, I have tried talking to her about this, she just brushes it off and says guy are having kids older these days. That makes me mad also. I am just tired of crying out of frustration at night, because I do love her. Deep down I know it won't work, but she just keeps denying. I had hung all these years hoping that she would change, like she always told me. Then a buddy of mine had told me, he was talking to her dad over lunch, they work in the same building, her dad told him he wishes that I would sh#t or get off the pot about marrying his daughter. I get tired of people thinking I am the one causing the problems, so now I am growing to hate her parents.... I am just in trouble!!!!!!!!!! Everytime I think about breaking it off, I start thinking about all the good times we had and LOVE gets in the way, therfore I forego my own welfare again!!!!!!!!!!!!!
starzphalling Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I Deep down I know it won't work I had hung all these years hoping that she would change, like she always told me. I think you said all you need right there. You can't make someone change, they either do or they don't. My opinion: break it off now, before you guilt yourself into keeping it going, and are never happy.
Author tiburontropic Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 My best buddy, he is like my brother, told me that I need to move on. Him and his wife support me leaving. He had said that we are not really helping one another. By me being there is not helping her and her being there sure isn't helping my cause. Its still tough, I worry that this may be my last chance to find a women that wants to have children. I know this isn't true, but it still pops into my head from time to time.
starzphalling Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 its going to be horrible, you're going to feel bad, she's probably going to go nuts...these things happen; its for the best - at least from what we can see. and trust me you will not have a problem finding another woman, especially one that wants to have children. we're everywhere, 51% of the population right? so you guys get an extra 1%...something about that doesn't seem fair...especially when you factor in gay guys...i call shanagins. but i digress im going off topic here. it is not going to be fun at all, but we're all here when you want to come and yell gah..i can't believe im encouraging a breakup when all i want is my ex back..what have you people done to me i don't mean to make light of your situation, its just how i am. the longer you wait, the more you're going to worry, just yank the bandaid off.
RM0123 Posted January 5, 2009 Posted January 5, 2009 I worry that this may be my last chance to find a women that wants to have children. And I worry that this is my last chance to find a guy that wants to have kids. Funny how that works.. We both are still so in love with our partners that we can't see the truth: Here i am a women who wants to have children and there you are a man that wants to have children. Proof that at least there is someone else out there that wants to have children. Oh the love goggles that we wear........
Author tiburontropic Posted January 5, 2009 Author Posted January 5, 2009 So RM0123, what are you doing next weekend........hehehe. It is tought seeing through love and see the truth. She think getting a second job will solve everything. She is even going to the gym more often in the hopes of saving the relationship, because I like to be be in great shape and have big muscles. She always talked about getting in shape, I always offered help and guidence. Now she decides to take working out and our relationship serious after 6 years. It stuff like this that makes it so hard on me, it is like a slow torture.
Author tiburontropic Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 I still haven't had the guts to break it off with her. It just makes me feel so bad, I must be pretty pathetic.
starzphalling Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 you're not pathetic, you have feelings. you're allowing yourself to see what she is going to feel, and it hurts to know you're going to hurt someone. but the longer you wait, the more its going to hurt both of you i think. just don't wait for a fight or something to let it out. it will make you feel worse than worse, and you'll probably say some things you won't want to. you just gotta take a deep breath and dive in. no other way around it, its not going to magically become easy tomorrow. it will not be fun.
Lee725 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 it would appear that this behaviour has gone on from the time you first met her 6 years ago, it would be unrealistic to think that she will change somehow now - sorry. Some people have habits bad or good engrained within them. Good luck.
Author tiburontropic Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 Her parents let her have a credit card at 16, which was a no no, since her mom had bad behaviors with credit cards. When I met her 6 years ago she had I think $2,000 in debt, but she was in college, so I thought she'll pay that off. Then at the end of college it was close to $5,000, that was 3 years into the relationship. The she got that teaching job and got laid off due to consolidations. Then the debt went to $8,000. Then a month ago I found out that it was now something over $10,000. Someone could have shot me and it wouldn've hurt anyworse, because I knew it was over between us. She told me that she spent money on Sephora, Ebay and Walmart to get it too $10,000+. My feelings for bad debt come from my past families problems in the early 80's when bankruptcy was a fact of life for many, including us. We had a very hard time during that economic downturn of the 80's, when house loan intrest was approaching 20%. We went from having good money to living on state aid. It shaped my money behavior. So she says that she doesn't understand that, she was never taught how to handle money. I told her that she is too old to come up with excuses like that. I'm not sure if that mean of me. I wanted to get engaged this year, hoping to see good progress in her debt. She takes 1/2 her paycheck to pay on bad debt. I can look over school loans, car loans and house loans, but bad credit debt to me is a killer. Somewhere in the back of my head there is that litle voice telling me that she will get it paid off, even though I know it isn't true. Even with a second job paying $500 a month, it will take her 2 years. Its affecting my life, sleep, eating and job. I guess love is a killer.
Lee725 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 She is suppose to be your partner and your partner should stand beside you - you should not have to lead them by the hand. Your life with her especially given your aspects and experience toward money versus hers could lead you into a life time of distrust and forever having the feeling of financial vunerability with her. Sorry to sound harsh.
Author tiburontropic Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 Thats what I told her tonight, that I will always have a trust issue with her now. I told her, do I need to start checking every bag and reciept that you bring home. I asked her, were you waiting on me to save you. Then I said I feel like you lied to me and tried to hide it from me, because of how I feel about it. She said that she didn't hide it, she just didn't think she had to keep me informed. Then that started the anger again. I asked her how in the he## do you think I would react. I feel like that everything I tried teaching her about money over the 6 years has just been wasted. I felt sometimes like a dad more than a boyfriend. I am just in sad shape, I need a shot of whiskey. She doesn't undertand that I am 33 and don't want to wait forever to find a life that I could be happy in.
Lee725 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 She doesn't undertand that I am 33 and don't want to wait forever to find a life that I could be happy in. She may not understand - but you do, therefore only you are the one here who needs to work out whether you can tolerate this long term. There is a high possibility she will not change: Ask yourself can i live with this forever? For your own peace of mind and to relieve this worry not only now but into the future you may need to do the inevitable. To a degree she is right i suppose that whilst you do not share accounts nor funds her financial position is not accountable to you. However given you are looking to become engaged to her, that is where things change and most of the time we plan a future with people that share similar opinions, values and attitudes toward different issues in order to provide ourselves with a stable and as happy future as possible. The pain you and her will feel now, may be bad, but the pain and stress of a life time will be worse if she does not change permanently.
Author tiburontropic Posted January 7, 2009 Author Posted January 7, 2009 We have talked about marriage and getting engaged for 4 years. So her over a year ago I told her that if she can get it down to $5000, then we could get engaged. I just wanted to see that she could do it, to prove tome that she can be finacially mature. Thats why it was such a shock. My buddy says that we should part ways, I have compained about these issues for about 3 out of the 6 years. She lacks motivation and will power, till a gun is held to her head, like me talking about the relationship not working out and that I may have to move on. Then she is all about change. I don't want to make her feel quilty, but she asked is my depression and anger due to her. I told told her not all of it, but your debt problems were just the icing on the cake. I have kind of had a sixth sense that this is how it would end the last 3 years. I took her cards once and she asked for them back, so I gave them back. Shes a big girl, i shouldn't have to baby sit her. I told her about that and I said, I gave them back thinking, I'll just wait and see if you hang yourself with all the debt. I guess I wanted final proof if she could do it or not. That may have been mean of me also...
Lee725 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 The one re-occurring problem i see here, is that you are trying to make her prove something to you that she at this point in her life is clearly not capable of doing. By saying to her if 'you do this we will get engaged' is rather unfair because if you see her as your wife it should be with all her faults. If her faults EG: spending habits, irritate you to the point where you are now, then she may not be the right one for you to marry, let alone continue with. The vows we take "for richer or poorer', 'in sickness and in health', ETC, are a symbol of commitment for those who choose to marry another based on who they are now, not how we intend to change them. Please don't miss-interpret this, i see this from your side 100%, i also am trying to see it from her perspective as this is clearly a difficult issue for the both of you. Her habit V your restraint (financially). You seem to also be answering a lot of your own questions and concerns within your own statements, i think that maybe you know what you need to do, but perhaps just need to find the strength within to do it. You may not change her, you should not have to change her in order to see her to be fit to marry, no matter how much you want a future with her, no matter how much you love her, she may not change. This problem does not Lay with you, it is with her, and sometimes no matter how much we love someone, their habits can be enough to drive us insane. Good luck.
sinkerswim Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 I am ashamed to say..that this is ONE of the reasons my boyfriend is wanting to get rid of me. I have debt...but I also gave up a lot to move out to Illinois from PA to be with him and gave up a wonderful job of 13 years with the Govt. Now I am working 2 measly part time jobs just spinning my wheels. Ive been trying to get in somewhere full time..but with no luck. I can only thank myself. But I do want to say..that I wish he could just sit down with me and help me work on things. I am willing to do it. He tried a couple years ago while I was on my own in my own place..and It helped....but now I need it more than anything since I live with him and so far from home. I guess love just is not enough. I guess you guys are right..nobody wants someone in debt...I just wish he would give me more of a chance on this until I get my full time job. I feel like a loser.
Jo78 Posted January 7, 2009 Posted January 7, 2009 Wow, tiburontropic, you must be dating my BF's ex. You sound like a keeper. Go and read the "Getting married" forum. You'll see there are dozens of girls who wish their guy was as mature as you are. And let me tell you, that translates to thousands of women out there looking for a guy like you. Have a heart to heart with her, tell her you will need to see changes ASAP. Give yourself an internal deadline. If by then nothing changed, move on. Don't feel bad about 'leaving her on the doorstep like a baby'. She is 26, for crying out loud! Do you want to have kids with her, or do you want to be her daddy? How is she supposed to be a mother if she can't deal with her own life?
Author tiburontropic Posted January 8, 2009 Author Posted January 8, 2009 I feel like talking to her is like beating a dead horse. I have talked to her trying to make sense of it for 3 weeks. My biggest issue is that the charges she has on there is nonsense, they were not requirements of life. Rite now she works at a day care making $10.50 and hour and I have told her that she has a champaign diet on a beer buget. She doesn't buy designer clothes, just a lot of stupid sh#t. I guess we are just a mismatch in life, I am the type I do what I say. If I want to loose 10lbs, I drop 10lbs, If i want to earn another $10,000 a year at work, I will do it. I am always having to motivate her in everything she does. I am honestly not against debt, its hard not to have it nowadays. But what gets me is that when she got to almost $10,000 2 years ago, I told her about it and how I feel. She then put her tax return on it and got it below $9,000. She had said that she will start paying it down. I let it got at that, trusting her. I just feel like I have been betrayed, especially when I am ready to start a life with her, I feel like our relationship is in the same place it was 3 years ago. I am just depressed. Other thoughts I have had is like some have written on here, how she will act as she matures and if I force into doing something now, will it come back on haunt me in the future. I guess I have often tried to leverage stuff to get her to do things. That was only the case if sincere and open help wasn't doing any good. She can't even talk to any of her girl friends, because they are in the same kind of debt. One of her friends owes 80,000 for school loans, just to get a teaching degree( She purchased stuff other that schooling with her loans) and another has been to debt couseling twice. All my friends and there wives are like me, pretty fiscally responsible. Do all young women today operate like this??????????????? The next women I date, I will make sure she is established. I hope that doesn't seem like I am judging, but thats just what I need for my own confort. sinkerswim, I do see your pain. When my women got layed off from teaching she didn't bother to bust her a#s to find a new job till her teaching money ran out. That was the start of my anger about her. It sounds like you have really tried from the start. Now I told her with the economy, it will be near impossible for her to find a good job. Jo78, I hate to say it I think I have stayed all these due to the comfort factor. Over the years I have had a lot of better offers from women, but always always scared of starting a new relationship. I have had women tell me at work, that I deserve better. I do think that is kind fo mean, but I do think I do need someone more like me. Its just hard to move on. Hey RM0123, I might be available, that was bad of me........lol
Author tiburontropic Posted January 21, 2009 Author Posted January 21, 2009 I am still hanging onto the scraps of our relationship. I just have been so depressed and not sure how to offically end it. We had to go to a party this past Sat in Chicago, at a friends place. We had to go because his girl friend invited her and he invited me. I didn't know they invited her also. I just feel stuck, she is so interwoven in my friends and then she makes me feel sorry for her. She clings to me like someone clings to a liferaft. I feel when I think about moving on, its like kicking someone off when they are clinging to your liferaft. This has been so rough on me. I know it has been so rough on her also. I have even lost my desire for enjoyment.
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