vnqsh2001 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I didn't say that. Everyone has attractions to other people. But she acted on it. Not only did she act on it, she craves "newness". And the fact that she acted on it and still wants other men proves she is more than capable of this type of behavior and isn't suited for a committed relationship. Dex, I hate to say this (because I can certainly understand where your anger is coming from and I have nothing against you personally), but maybe you need to lighten up on people like Mandy a little bit. You certainly seem to have this cross to bear and you see yourself as spreading the gospel of your own experience for the benefit of others. There is a certain danger in any fanatical approach though. What is it you expect Mandy to do? Shoot herself to the moon and live the rest of her days in solitude? Do you think that everyone who has transgressed should be shipped on a barge to the middle of the ocean? She, like many others, is trying to carry on with her life as best she can. The days of being branded with a big letter "A" are long since over. Are you trying to say you would like to bring them back? Link to post Share on other sites
Author mandydarling Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Ouch, but thanks Anne. I have not lashed out at Dexter before because I thought that he was just being that way towards me, and I am able to take from it what I need. It was when I saw it all over the boards. I think that you will agree that he has some healing to do, and he is in denial about it. (as many of us are) Link to post Share on other sites
Woggle Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I know some people here might seem harsh but those of us who have been on the receiving end of a cheating spouse tend to have little sympathy. If you have to fight cheating on him you should just leave and let him find somebody who knows what commitment is. If I were your husband we would be in divorce court right now but since he doesn't yet built up the courage to pull the plug you should do the kind thing and pull it for him. Link to post Share on other sites
vnqsh2001 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 the OM just cornered me in the back room and started moving closer and closer. I told him no, and walked out. But i am completely freaking out because it was so hard to say no. I just wrote this morning that my feelings were beginning to evolve in a way that made me feel removed from all this, and now I am right back in the thick of it. I just want to scream, cry and throw some punches. How is it that all of a sudden my emotions are so out of whack again? One thing you may not be considering is that the very act of denial is what makes the attraction more acute; possibly even more so for the OM. There is nothing more tempting to a man than a woman who shows reluctant denial. It becomes like a game. He's beginning to feel his animal impulses taking over and he's closing in on you like a hungry wolf stalking its prey. The longer this goes on, the more likely that either one (or both) of you will begin to obsess over it and make the unthinkable a reality. I don't believe you should simply avoid talking to him. That won't be enough if you're still forced to see him every day. The only way to fend him off is to show utter disgust and disinterest in him. You've got to go out of your way to show to him that he is no good for you. Let him know he's not good enough and never will be. Let him be hurt by your words. Get mean and nasty. Tell him he's ugly, uncouth, and repulsive. Compare him to other men with a derisive tone. In fact, I think you've got to find some way to hurt his feelings or he's going to think the possibility of closeness with you is still there. You've got to get that idea out of his head and it can't be done without breaking a few eggs. The biggest mistake you can make in this situation is by allowing him to think that the two of you still share a friendship or a special bond. Don't try to be his friend. Make it perfectly clear that you are not friends anymore. You are just workmates; nothing more. In fact, if you didn't have to work with him, you wouldn't see him ever again. Link to post Share on other sites
vnqsh2001 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Basically, I'm advising you to burn your bridges before they get crossed. Bridges serve their purposes and sooner or later they will be used for that purpose. Ignoring that the bridge exists won't stop that in the least. It's really not so hard to do. You've just got to p!ss him off and be a total beoch. It's going to help you forget about him too. Link to post Share on other sites
vnqsh2001 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I will be thinking of him tonight, but not in the way that you think. And that's really all we need to know. If you're thinking of him, then you're vulnerable. If you're vulnerable, he's going to sense that as surely as a predator sniffs its prey. You're in danger, girl. You've got to go into defensive mode and wound him before he takes you down. That's the only way you're going to stay out of trouble. But hey, if you want to fall prey to him, I'm not going to pass judgment on you. I'm not going to say that you should be ostracized from society like some posters on this thread will. Don't blame anyone else for what happens though. Make sure you take responsibility for what you do or fail to do. You could very well lose your husband over all of this, despite the agreement you made to take divorce off the table. By the way, what happens if he doesn't divorce you but leaves you for another woman anyway? Have you thought about that? Just as some things can be worse than death, so too can some situations be worse than divorce.You could find yourself in an emotional Limbo that leaves you with nothing but cold emptiness and loneliness. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Dexter, I have tried to reply as civilized as I can to you, because I can tell that you have been wounded. However, with the amount of time that has passed since you were cheated on, I am concerned that you have not grown past it more than you have. I have grown far past it. her actions no longer hurt me. I am speaking from a clear mindset that can't be clouded by any delusions from the desperation of being freshly found in the situation of being a BS. You say that you are finding it so hard to resist the OM, I say its because that is part of your character. That isn't going to change. Tell you what, tell your husband that the OM is coming on to you, and although you resisted, you wanted him. See what he says and let him take the next step. Frankly, you are clearly so bitter about it that you cannot even see reality straight. On the contrary, I can see reality perfectly. it is YOU that cannot see it. You even feel the need to tell everyone in this forum that you had oral sex with the guy, but then come back and say that you didn't, then say that you did, and then say that you didn't again *head spinning*. You try to downplay what you did by backpeddaling and saying you didn't have oral sex with this man. If you can't be honest with us, then you aren't going to be honest with your husband. And if you can't be honest with your husband, the marriage IS doomed. And you are so affected by it that you are willing to make snap judgements about people that you love. Marriage is unconditional. No, its not. I reserve the right to divorce anyone that "unconditionally" screws someone else. But I'll play devil's advocate here. if marriage is unconditional, a convenient label you put on it since it was YOU that cheated, then I guess your husband can go out and have affairs from here on out and you'll have to stay with him. Its unconditional afterall, right? See the problem with that statement? However, you entered into your current marriage with a conditional love. i am not in a marriage, I divorced her. And yes, the conition is, you cheat, your gone. That simple. "Forsaking all others"....remember that? I am not trying to be bitter towards you -- i just really wish that you would be compassionate enough towards your wife to give her the benefit of the doubt long enough to save your marriage if you ever get to that point. Again, she is not my wife any longer and she didn't show me any compassion by cheating. and I did show her compassion. I divorced her rather than staying in the marriage with someone I can't trust. Dexter, I have read many of the posts that you spend an unbelievable amount of time writing, and I wonder how in the world you think that you are healed. Easy, I go into relationships with the idea that I will trust until given a reason to not trust. And the healing is that I won't be played for a fool again. One strike and they are out. The anger and disdain that drips from your words is truly disappointing and unhelpful. What is unhelpful is that lied and flip flopped 3 times about the nature of your relationship to this man. And if you can't own up to what you did, then you will always look for an excuse when it happens again. I truly would value constructive help from someone who has been in your position, but all you have offered are horrible judgements with very angry words. I would think that you would be energized to find out that there are people out there, who when they find themselves thrown into tempting situations, choose to say no and fight for their marriage. You aren't fighting for the marriage if you are continuing to lie. You aren't fighting for the marriage if you want another man. And, you need to really, really take a good look in the mirror. Do you truly believe that you have always put your spouse first? Yes, I do. But nobody is perfect. EVERYONE will put something at one point in their lives before their spouse....a shopoholic wife, a motorhead husband. But none of it....NONE of it, excuses cheating. My xW put me last, yet you didn't see me cheating. I put my energy in my kids. You have never put anything before her? I do not believe that anyone can make that claim. Nobody can, and neither can you. Doesn't excuse what you did and what you keep doing. You have put your hurt relationship with your ex wife above your relationship with your current wife by setting the rule that if she messes up in the least bit she will be kicked to the curb. I have only been married once and am not married now. And there is nothing unreasonable about expecting fidelity. There is nothing unreasonable about getting out of a relationship with a cheater. Are you serious?? I have not even kissed my boss, and you have completely dismissed my ability to be in a committed relationship. So you had oral sex with him, but no kissing? Uh, ok. This is what you said in your first post: "I have been flirting, hugging, rubbing and having oral sex with a man at work" http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1943599&postcount=1 How much time do you spend thinking about the betrayal, or writing to other people on the internet? Are you not choosing to spend that time doing all those unhealthy things instead of being with your wife? I am not on the net when with my GF. We spend every waking moment together. Take a look in the mirror and stop trying to trash people who are honestly reaching out for help to try to better themselves. You are not trying to better yourself when you are still lying about what you did and still wanting another man. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 What is it you expect Mandy to do? to quit lying..... to tell her husband that she still wants the other man. Shoot herself to the moon and live the rest of her days in solitude? There aren't other men out there?? Do you think that everyone who has transgressed should be shipped on a barge to the middle of the ocean? No, but their current significant others need not put up with them any longer. They can move on and make the committment to try not to screw someone else over in the future. She, like many others, is trying to carry on with her life as best she can. No, she isn't. She isn't going to cut the OM out of her life completely, she still wants him and continues to lie. I don't call that "best she can". Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 If I were your husband we would be in divorce court right now but since he doesn't yet built up the courage to pull the plug you should do the kind thing and pull it for him. The problem is, her husband doesn't know the complete truth. I'm sure if he did, he'd feel much differently. Probably even drop an ultimatum. Too bad her hubby doesn't have a couple of buddies he can go out with, have a few beers, and they can help him out with this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mandydarling Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 I did not say that i did not say that I did have OS after I recanted. Keep up. I did not have OS. I have not kissed him. The "embraces" we have shared have been suprisingly erotic considering those factors, but those are the truth. My husband knows the truth, and it really doesn't matter if you believe that or not. Ok, so that is my last response to Dexter. I am done defending myself against someone who is not even listening. I will not be a punching bag. I have talked to my husband about MC, but am leaving it up to him to decide. I am trying to give him as much decision making power right now as humanly possible. I wrote to my boss and told him that I am absolutely not going back there, and that he was not worth it. And, that is the truth. One poster used the phrase "not worth it" and that rang so true to me. I don't have to be completely through my feelings, and I don't have to be in a place where I don't feel tempted. I just have to realize that the temptation is not worth it. It's like wanting a piece of cake after you have already had one -- it is just not worth the reprocussions. I am back on track. Thanks. Oh, and I have started the job search. Link to post Share on other sites
soserious1 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I did not say that i did not say that I did have OS after I recanted. Keep up. I did not have OS. I have not kissed him. The "embraces" we have shared have been suprisingly erotic considering those factors, but those are the truth. My husband knows the truth, and it really doesn't matter if you believe that or not. Ok, so that is my last response to Dexter. I am done defending myself against someone who is not even listening. I will not be a punching bag. I have talked to my husband about MC, but am leaving it up to him to decide. I am trying to give him as much decision making power right now as humanly possible. I wrote to my boss and told him that I am absolutely not going back there, and that he was not worth it. And, that is the truth. One poster used the phrase "not worth it" and that rang so true to me. I don't have to be completely through my feelings, and I don't have to be in a place where I don't feel tempted. I just have to realize that the temptation is not worth it. It's like wanting a piece of cake after you have already had one -- it is just not worth the reprocussions. I am back on track. Thanks. Oh, and I have started the job search. You've said everything to your boss that needed to be said.. why on earth would you add fuel to the fire by sitting down and writing any sort of letter to him? Just quietly do your work while you hunt day and night for a new job. Mandy you are not anywhere near over your feelings for this guy and as long as you're near him you won't get over those feelings. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I agree with Dexter's positon on infidleity. For me, I think the one strike rule works best. Not eceryone feels the way I do. But, that is okay. It works for me. You can see how people's positions are on a continuum re the importance of infidelity. To some, it is no big deal. To others, it means a lot. I think the most important thing is that one needs to be honest. Mandy's H deserves all the info on the cheating(and I still cannot wrap my puny brain around the rationale for the oral sex/recanting thing.) Link to post Share on other sites
JustBreathe Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Eloquently put, Reggie! Sorry but I feel she deserves the severe kick in the pants she's getting here. Why? Because she's either minimizing or just completely lying. How do you get naked and send nudie pictures to someone, have long embraces with 'inappropriate movements' (what's that? Grinding or something? Feeling each other up?), go around mooning for the man, yet claim to not even have kissed the fool and that she was only contemplating having sex with him. Pffffft.. whatever. No pats on the head from me either. In her famous initial post on that other thread where she said she was sucking her boss off, one of her lines was "I was ALSO having good sex with my husband..." Sounds like she was giving it up for more than one man. Deny deny deny. Deflecting the obvious by putting it on Dexter and other people here who don't believe her because they call her on it. Hers is standard cheater behavior. It is not difficult to see why a betrayed spouse would be so enraged as to tell her bold faced she's not telling the That's why people are angry and not necessarily bitter. The worst and most hurtful thing about affairs are not the sex itself, but the insult and degradation of being lied to repeatedly. Mystery to me how they think they can get away with telling partial truths to the person who knows them best and can always feel it when they lie, even if they stick their heads in the sand because they don't want to believe it. For two years prior to d-day, I had episodes where I would cry uncontrollably for no apparent reason. I saw three doctors thinking it was hormones or something. Even had them tested and they were normal. Each doctor told me I was depressed but I said I didn't have anything to be depressed about. I had a bad car accident also just before d-day. I believe I was so distracted emotionally I couldn't concentrate. My driving record was perfect before that. He claims the affair lasted three months, has never admitted to anything else, I think that's why we never could recover. Because by not admitting it, he lies to this day. I believe I knew in my heart my husband was seriously involved with another woman. I feel for this woman's husband so much, and yeah her posts make me angry. She needs to admit the truth so people can give her useful advice. She's treating her husband and everyone who is trying to be helpful like we're idiots and it is enraging. That's what I feel. Not bitter. Jaded. I know how these affair things go. I'm done with this thread. I hope she comes out of her denial soon, certainly not for her sake because I have no respect for liars, but for her husband's sake as it is torturous what she is doing to him. If she can't quit lying, she should let the poor man go, it's horrible to do that to him. Link to post Share on other sites
Reggie Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I agree, Just, the story is riddled with holes. I also agree that it is incredibly cruel how a cheater has no regard for the BS's sanity and is willing to lie and make a BS feel nuts. When I got concrete evidence of my XW's cheating, rather than being devesatated, at first,I was euphoric. I was so happy that I had not lost my mind and was right. Later, the pain and anger set in. But, I will never forget the rush I got when my PI called me with the proof. I felt like I'd won the lottery. How is that for weird? Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Mandy- it appears that you may not be truthful with yourself as much as to all of us. the attacks you have had here are making you continue to minimize what actually happened. only you know the truth - but the more you can be honest with self and with us - the more you can get help to change the situation. the fact that the minimizing is written out here makes it easy to point out... so let's just say that the circumstances certainly leave folks wondering what the real truth is. now - be honest with yourself and your husband and figure out how to have a healthy boundary that will keep you and your marriage in a safe place. good luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mandydarling Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 why is it so hard to believe that i haven't kissed him? There is something innately intimate about kissing - something that creates or expresses a deep emotional bond. This was not a line that either of us was willing to cross. We actually had discussions about how we had to keep ourselves from getting emotionally attatched to each other, and what that would constitute for each of us. Sex was a line that we wouldn't cross. Contact with skin that is not normally exposed was also crossed off the list. There were wandering hands over clothing during the embraces -- that is why I said that the embraces were inappropriate. And, after each instance, we both felt tremendously guilty. I don't know how to further explain my previous post. But, just imagine being in my position. We had been flirting, sending messages, and having these incredibly hot embraces. There were times when one or both of us would hover near each other, almost crossing the line of kissing, but we would always pull back. We knew that we both wanted to, but were not willing to. It was addictive, and tremendously entrancing and confusing. I started justifying in my mind how to do more without crossing our predefined lines. Then I would feel guilty, and i searched the internet for how to break off an affair, and ran across this forum. I did not trust my own point of view, knowing that I probably could justify almost any behavior at that point to get my "fix". So, I wrote my first post, basically describing what I "wished" could happen with the OM to see what people's reactions were so I could keep myself in check. The description I wrote was a fantasy. The reaction was horrible, and I quickly realized how much trouble I was getting myself into. So, now here we are, a month or so later, and this forum kept me from stepping past a boundary that may have been the quick and utter end to my marriage. I never kissed him, and I never went down on him. And I won't. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I did not say that i did not say that I did have OS after I recanted. Keep up. I did not have OS. We aren't stupid. You said in your first thread, not this one, that you had oral sex with him. Then you came back with this lame story after you were caught in a lie: you are correct that i lied, but not about which thread. The first one was a lie because i was thinking of taking it further, and had reasoned in my head that it would not be sex if it was oral. I was trying to put the situation out there like it had already happened, to see how people reacted. http://www.loveshack.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1972815&postcount=19 Nice try. You lied about NOT having OS because you wanted to downplay what you did. NOBODY says they had oral sex with someone else while posting their story JUST to see how people would react. You really think people here are that stupid. Ok, so that is my last response to Dexter. I am done defending myself against someone who is not even listening. I will not be a punching bag. Then own up to what you did and quit lying. If you are lying to us you are definitely lying to your husband. Oh, and I have started the job search. at least his is one positive thing that you are doing. Hope you find one soon, for your husband's sake. Link to post Share on other sites
Dexter Morgan Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 why is it so hard to believe that i haven't kissed him? Not talking about kissing him. Talking about you lying about OS. and I never went down on him. bull. You said you did in your first thread. You didn't say, "we almost had oral sex" You didn't say "what if we were to have had oral sex" You said you did in fact HAVE oral sex. end of story Link to post Share on other sites
Bryanp Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 I understand what you are saying. How are things going with your husband? Have you been able to reconnect with him at all? What are you doing to make sure that this never happens again? Good Luck. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mandydarling Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Things are going pretty well with my husband. It is a bit like a roller coaster ride, though. Some times I feel like things are completely "normal" -- we can joke around and snuggle and it feels good. Other times I can tell that he is thinking about it, but he is mostly torturing himself on the inside. And, I know that it will all come out at once on me. I am doing everything I can to pay attention to him, and to never even mention my boss, unless it is strictly work related. I am just going to keep putting myself out there and trying my best to make him realize that i have chosen him, and will continue to do so. Thanks for asking. Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Don't even mention your boss on work related subjects. Every time you do, it stabs your H in the heart. Only talk about him if it is something your H needs to know in respect of your marriage. I really do understand the mess you are in but you have to accept those pained looks on your H's face. It is hell to see those but it is nothing compared to the pain he is feeling. However I can tell you that if your really want your marriage to work and your H feels the same way, then it is possible. My H and I are recovering - still a long way to go, but we are getting there hopefully. Link to post Share on other sites
Author mandydarling Posted January 23, 2009 Author Share Posted January 23, 2009 Anne, I thought about not mentioning my boss at all (to my h), but then I thought that might look suspicious, like I was trying to avoid talking about him. Anyone on the receiving end of this to tell me whether to mention my boss professionally to my h? Link to post Share on other sites
anne1707 Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Simple answer (and then very hard to do actually but totally necessary). Ask your H what he wants you to do. It is a very fine line to tread between being completely open & honest and protecting your H's feelings. Let your H decide those boundaries. Link to post Share on other sites
2sunny Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 my god Dexter BACK OFF!!!! she came here for advice and guidance NOT an interrogation. you made your point several pages back - now quit harassing her. she's a gal asking for help - not harm. Link to post Share on other sites
whichwayisup Posted January 23, 2009 Share Posted January 23, 2009 Ask your husband if he wants to hear any work related stuff that involves your boss and how it makes him feel. That choice is his. I agree with sunny, mandy is here for help and she knows what she's done was very wrong, rubbing her face in it, calling her a liar isn't helping. Link to post Share on other sites
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