somewhat victorious over temptation

[mandydarling]

I might regret posting this, because I am sure that it will unleash a tyrraid about how I am the least qualified person to define marriage -- but here goes anyway. When we got married, divorce was not an option for either of us. We actually had a conversation where we agreed that this really meant that we would stick by each other through everything, and that divorce was off the table.

 

Dexter and Reggie, I am curious what your reaction would have been if your spouses would have been alcoholic. It is very similar to the addiction of an affair. By the way, 6 months ago I would not have even been able to comprehend that. I am very serious when I say that what I did felt like an addiction. I would talk myself out of it and get the courage to stop when I wasn't around him, but then when I was around him I found myself drawn to him in an unbelievably strong way -- even though I knew that it was no good for me or my marriage. When you are in addiction, it does not seem like you are choosing the addiction over your loved ones, even though you are. You begin justifying how you aren't affecting anyone but yourself, how your time is your business. Would you have left your spouse if they were addicted to alcohol because they chose the alcohol over you?

 

All I am doing on this forum is trying to find a "twelve step" program. I know that it doesn't exist for my addiction, but that is not an excuse to not try to get through this. Would you say that an alcoholic "fell off the wagon" if they looked at a drink longingly, or thought about how nice a drink would be? No -- they only fall off the wagon if they actually take a drink. So, I refuse to take my lingering feelings as an indication that I have no hope of recovery, or that I am still a cheater.

 

Dexter, you say that you are better because you are with someone you can now trust. What if she messes up? Are you going to toss her aside just as quickly? Are you perfect yourself? Have you ever seemingly chosen anything over your current or former spouse? work, food, drinking, being out with the guys, money, vacation, pride. . . I don't think that there is a single person who has never made something else in their life a priority, then realized their error and straightened things back out again.

 

I refuse to treat marriage as a disposable convenience. It's not going to be easy, but I am going to fight for what is still mine. My vows are still in place - and I will live by them.

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

Mandy. You made the comparison between alcoholism and cheating. You were right in doing so. Like an alcoholic (I know because even though I quit with no help 11 years ago. I am still an alcoholic) is always an alcoholic you are a cheater and you always will be a cheater. The only thing, is that you are not cheating at this time. Like an alcoholic can recover, so can a cheater. But to deny being a cheater is setting yourself up to fail again. It's like virginity. You lose it once and you're never a virgin again. So it is with cheating.

[Bryanp]

Mandy,

 

It seems to me that you are trying very hard and have been honest with your husband. You know you have this problem which is a big step in acknowledging it and dealing with it. Keep the communication lines open with your husband like you are doing. I wish you luck. I think you are doing great.

[Dexter Morgan]

I might regret posting this, because I am sure that it will unleash a tyrraid about how I am the least qualified person to define marriage -- but here goes anyway. When we got married, divorce was not an option for either of us. We actually had a conversation where we agreed that this really meant that we would stick by each other through everything, and that divorce was off the table.

 

Dexter and Reggie, I am curious what your reaction would have been if your spouses would have been alcoholic.

 

You mean being more understanding of her cheating if she had a drinking problem? No. I might help her get into a program, but I'd still have divorced her.

 

 

 

It is very similar to the addiction of an affair.

 

I agree. And just like an alcoholic, they can vow to never drink again, but they still would want a drink now and then.

 

just like a cheater. They can vow to never cheat again, and may just make good on that vow. But deep down, just like with you, you WANT that interaction with someone new and will always crave it.

 

 

 

By the way, 6 months ago I would not have even been able to comprehend that. I am very serious when I say that what I did felt like an addiction. I would talk myself out of it and get the courage to stop when I wasn't around him, but then when I was around him I found myself drawn to him in an unbelievably strong way -- even though I knew that it was no good for me or my marriage. When you are in addiction, it does not seem like you are choosing the addiction over your loved ones, even though you are. You begin justifying how you aren't affecting anyone but yourself, how your time is your business. Would you have left your spouse if they were addicted to alcohol because they chose the alcohol over you?

 

As long as they vowed to get help(and weren't cheating in the process). But there is a major difference here.

 

I wouldn't feel completely betrayed if they simply couldn't stop drinking.

 

its a far cry from a cheater f####g someone else. Apples and oranges.

 

 

Would you say that an alcoholic "fell off the wagon" if they looked at a drink longingly, or thought about how nice a drink would be?

 

I'd say they would fall off the wagon if they actually TOOK a drink.

 

But wanting a drink isn't a direct betrayal of ones spouse. Cheating, however, is.

 

 

No -- they only fall off the wagon if they actually take a drink. So, I refuse to take my lingering feelings as an indication that I have no hope of recovery, or that I am still a cheater.

 

No, the fact you already said you crave this contact with another man says that you are still a cheater.

 

 

Dexter, you say that you are better because you are with someone you can now trust. What if she messes up?

 

then she is gone. And the feelings of despair I had when married won't be there. I'll be mad, I'll end the relationship, and I'll move on without looking back. I have learned better.

 

 

Are you going to toss her aside just as quickly?

 

Yup

 

 

Are you perfect yourself?

 

Nobody is perfect. But when it comes to betrayal or cheating, I am perfect in that sense. Never done it, never will.

 

 

Have you ever seemingly chosen anything over your current or former spouse? work, food, drinking, being out with the guys, money, vacation, pride

 

 

Nope. I have left the toilet seat up a few times. So sue me.

 

 

I don't think that there is a single person who has never made something else in their life a priority, then realized their error and straightened things back out again.

 

Nice try. Cheating is a DIRECT betrayal of a significant other. If someone chose to, for example, go out with friends alot, then it might be seen as crappy behavior for someone in a committed relationship, but its not betrayal.

 

Thats the key. Betrayal. Ya, I know, you will try to justify the things you said above as betrayal also, but it just aint so.

 

 

 

I refuse to treat marriage as a disposable convenience.

 

So would you be accusing someone that doesn't want to be with a cheater as treating marriage as a "disposable convenience" if they want to divorce?

 

 

It's not going to be easy, but I am going to fight for what is still mine. My vows are still in place - and I will live by them.

 

You already broke your vows in the worst way.

 

I hope for your husbands sake that you do live by them from now on, but i don't think you will ever totally live up to the "forsaking all others" portion whether you physcially get involved with another man or not.

[Reggie]

Interestingly, Mandy, I was raised by an alcoholic father so your questionhits home. I can understand the addiction analogy. But, you should realize that many spouses married to alcoholics do get divorced, despite the drinking stopping.

I think that for some folks, the damage done by both alcoholics and folks that are unfaithful is just too much for many people to get past.

I saw my mom brutally abused by my dad. When he stopped drining and started acting more normally, I asked my mom if she still loved him after all those years of horrible abuse. She told me that she never felt the same way about him again, although she loved him to some extent.

I think the same is true for husbands and wives that have been cheated on in most cases.

The terrible abuse from being betrayed like this just changes things forever. A betrayed spouse now has concrete proof that his or her spouse does not love him to the exclusion of all others. And, that is what most of us seem to instinctively want, someone that will love us above all others.

I do not agree with Dex that feeling attractions means one is unsuited for a committed relationship. Acting on those attractions is another story.

Best thing you cn do for your husband is to tell him you've been unfaithful and let him figure out if this is something he can live with and still be married to you. He has that right.

[Dexter Morgan]

I do not agree with Dex that feeling attractions means one is unsuited for a committed relationship.

 

I didn't say that. Everyone has attractions to other people. But she acted on it. Not only did she act on it, she craves "newness". And the fact that she acted on it and still wants other men proves she is more than capable of this type of behavior and isn't suited for a committed relationship.

 

Big difference between that and idle attraction.

 

 

Acting on those attractions is another story.

 

Which she did.

 

 

Best thing you cn do for your husband is to tell him you've been unfaithful and let him figure out if this is something he can live with and still be married to you. He has that right.

 

yes, he deserves to know and make up his mind about his life and if he wants to spend it with someone he thought he knew.

[Reggie]

I didn't say that. Everyone has attractions to other people. But she acted on it. Not only did she act on it, she craves "newness". And the fact that she acted on it and still wants other men proves she is more than capable of this type of behavior and isn't suited for a committed relationship.

 

Big difference between that and idle attraction.

 

 

 

 

Which she did.

 

 

 

 

yes, he deserves to know and make up his mind about his life and if he wants to spend it with someone he thought he knew.

 

Well I was speaking of the future. Despite the fact that in the past she cheated, having additional attractions in the future does not mean she is unsuited for a committed relationship, so long as she does not act on them. Same with any desire for "newness". It is not the desire that constitutes the breach.

[Dexter Morgan]

Well I was speaking of the future. Despite the fact that in the past she cheated, having additional attractions in the future does not mean she is unsuited for a committed relationship, so long as she does not act on them. Same with any desire for "newness". It is not the desire that constitutes the breach.

 

I agree, but with her character (which includes cheating, lying, and trying to downplay the seriousness of what she has done) and what she has said about wanting contact with another man, the track record for people who think like this to stay faithful is the pits.

[mandydarling]

I think that I keep asking about how to deal with my feelings because I don't feel like there is anyone appropriate to discuss them with. I cannot discuss them with my H for obvious reasons - I don't want to hurt him further. I can't discuss them with the OM for obvious reasons.

 

I know, Owl, you are going to bring up counseling again. You are wise.

[Dexter Morgan]

I think that I keep asking about how to deal with my feelings because I don't feel like there is anyone appropriate to discuss them with. I cannot discuss them with my H for obvious reasons - I don't want to hurt him further.

 

What issues? You mean the issues of still wanting contact with the other man? You'd be right, it wouldn't be wise to discuss this with your H. It would be a slap in his face.

 

If you are talking about other issues that don't have anything to do with pining for wanting a fling with someone else, then what is there to worry about?

 

 

 

I can't discuss them with the OM for obvious reasons.

 

The very idea that you say you can't discuss things with the OM tells me that you WANT to discuss things with him, but can't.

 

You should be going no contact with the other man. Any contact with him, other than strict business with no small talk, is highly inappropriate. Which again is why you need to keep looking for another job.

[2sunny]

i am seeing something here and i'm unsure if anyone else has pointed it out.

 

it may be possible that you find job security in giving in to "some" temptations with your boss. otherwise - quit!

 

i think this may be a sneaky manipulation on your part for job security.

 

if you are honest with yourself - you will find this to be true - otherwise your marriage would be the priority over the job and you would quit today and find a job without the temptation to have job security by teasing the boss.

 

doesn't matter if you have had full sex or not - you have manipulated the situation to your benefit with the insinuation of temptation to hold a job. you are also the one unwilling to let go of the little game you so dearly love to play.

 

so, are you going to continue to play this game or are you acknowledging your marriage as the priority and going to quit today and go find a new job?

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

You should have found another job. I think it is only a matter of time till you mess up. As I said before. You are a cheater. You are emotionally cheating on your husband right now. To bad you weren't serious about being faithful to your husband. All you've done is made him mad and you're still thinking about cheating.

[2sunny]

I think that I keep asking about how to deal with my feelings because I don't feel like there is anyone appropriate to discuss them with. I cannot discuss them with my H for obvious reasons - I don't want to hurt him further. I can't discuss them with the OM for obvious reasons.

 

I know, Owl, you are going to bring up counseling again. You are wise.

 

your feelings are just feelings... what action you take based upon those feelings is what shows your true character.

 

to stay away from the OM is one thing - but if you were serious about honoring your marriage for the long run and what the honorable thing is - you would quit the job immediately.

 

you are playing with fire by staying - it is only a matter of time before you act upon your desire. in other words - you are only fooling yourself.

 

i have to wonder what exactly you told your husband? please share what you told him. i don't think you've been totally truthful if he wants you to stay in this job.

[mandydarling]

It has been asked several times, so I thought that I should answer. About a year ago I had already shared with my husband that I was feeling tempted by the OM. This was before anything concrete had happened, but I knew that I was tempted, and I could tell that the OM was also tempted. So, in my letter, I told him that I had given into temptation. That it had started out very subtly with jokes and emails. Then that the emails had grown much more suggestive over the course of a month. I told him that we had started sending pictures to each other of areas that we each should not have seen. And I told him about the passionate embraces that we shared that involved extended periods of inappropriate movement on both our parts and left me feeling guilty afterwards.

 

I told him that we had both decided to go cold turkey and had not had any inappropriate contact for over a month, not even by email. I told him that we both agreed that it was in the best interest of our families and careers to stop this now.

[mandydarling]

Also, i would like to clear something up. When i first started this post, I was still craving the actual contact with the OM. Lately, when I have posted that I am thinking about how good it felt, it is a different feeling. Not the kind of feeling you act on. I feel kind of removed from it.

 

I just went back and read the first parts of this thread, and it helped me realize just how much healing I have actually done. I have far to go, but I am definitely better than I was then.

[2sunny]

Also, i would like to clear something up. When i first started this post, I was still craving the actual contact with the OM. Lately, when I have posted that I am thinking about how good it felt, it is a different feeling. Not the kind of feeling you act on. I feel kind of removed from it.

 

I just went back and read the first parts of this thread, and it helped me realize just how much healing I have actually done. I have far to go, but I am definitely better than I was then.

 

why is this about how YOU feel? what about what your husband must feel right now?

 

what actions are you taking to be sure he can move towards a healthy frame of mind? he must be beside himself and you are still worried about how YOU feel...

 

i don't see the action being taken to repair what might be left of your marriage. you just dumped on him and ran away to hide instead of doing the hard work to show him that you are committed to being faithful.

 

a few emails every hour is not enough - what else do you plan to do?

[mandydarling]

the OM just cornered me in the back room and started moving closer and closer. I told him no, and walked out. But i am completely freaking out because it was so hard to say no. I just wrote this morning that my feelings were beginning to evolve in a way that made me feel removed from all this, and now I am right back in the thick of it.

 

I just want to scream, cry and throw some punches. How is it that all of a sudden my emotions are so out of whack again?

[Owl]

Because you're still working with him, Mandy. It's that simple.

 

I seriously think you need to take this to your HR department. "Cornering" is a sexual harrassment technique.

 

Oh...and tell your H about your encounter with OM, and get his input on how to handle it.

[Sands_of_time]

Because you're still working with him, Mandy. It's that simple.

 

I seriously think you need to take this to your HR department. "Cornering" is a sexual harrassment technique.

 

Oh...and tell your H about your encounter with OM, and get his input on how to handle it.

 

Owl's right--dead on. (been following your thread for a while).

 

This is your first big test--you CAN pass this. This will be a great step for you on rebuilding the trust with your husband.

 

Are you going to tell your husband?

[Dexter Morgan]

the OM just cornered me in the back room and started moving closer and closer. I told him no, and walked out. But i am completely freaking out because it was so hard to say no. I just wrote this morning that my feelings were beginning to evolve in a way that made me feel removed from all this, and now I am right back in the thick of it.

 

I just want to scream, cry and throw some punches. How is it that all of a sudden my emotions are so out of whack again?

 

Because unfaithfullness is part of your character.

 

I'd say this marriage is doomed. Do your husband a favor and file for divorce. He deserves better.

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

No, that would never happen. He cornered you and you stayed strong. But now all those same feelings are back again. You will be thinking of him tonight. You were advised to quit. Oh well. next time it will be you cornering him.

[mandydarling]

I will be thinking of him tonight, but not in the way that you think. I am quite angry. We are a small company, so there is no HR department to report him to, and he's the boss -- so no luck. He did not force himself on me, he just kept coming closer and closer, sort of lurking.

 

Anyway, it absolutely astounds me as to some people's reactions on this forum. It is clear that for some who have been cheated on, life has become black and white. You're a cheater, or you are not a cheater.

 

From reading many different threads, it seems to me that there are many different reasons that people cheat, and many different circumstances that get them there. Some people are actually looking for the relationship -- seeking it out before it is even apparent. Some people seem to have a sexual addiction. Some people appear to crave the drama. And some people fall into a single situation with one person which seemingly may never happen again.

 

Dexter, I have tried to reply as civilized as I can to you, because I can tell that you have been wounded. However, with the amount of time that has passed since you were cheated on, I am concerned that you have not grown past it more than you have. Frankly, you are clearly so bitter about it that you cannot even see reality straight. And you are so affected by it that you are willing to make snap judgements about people that you love. Marriage is unconditional. However, you entered into your current marriage with a conditional love. I am not trying to be bitter towards you -- i just really wish that you would be compassionate enough towards your wife to give her the benefit of the doubt long enough to save your marriage if you ever get to that point.

 

Dexter, I have read many of the posts that you spend an unbelievable amount of time writing, and I wonder how in the world you think that you are healed. The anger and disdain that drips from your words is truly disappointing and unhelpful. I truly would value constructive help from someone who has been in your position, but all you have offered are horrible judgements with very angry words. I would think that you would be energized to find out that there are people out there, who when they find themselves thrown into tempting situations, choose to say no and fight for their marriage.

 

And, you need to really, really take a good look in the mirror. Do you truly believe that you have always put your spouse first? You have never put anything before her? I do not believe that anyone can make that claim. You have put your hurt relationship with your ex wife above your relationship with your current wife by setting the rule that if she messes up in the least bit she will be kicked to the curb. I have not even kissed my boss, and you have completely dismissed my ability to be in a committed relationship. How much time do you spend thinking about the betrayal, or writing to other people on the internet? Are you not choosing to spend that time doing all those unhealthy things instead of being with your wife?

 

Take a look in the mirror and stop trying to trash people who are honestly reaching out for help to try to better themselves.

[whichwayisup]

the OM just cornered me in the back room and started moving closer and closer. I told him no, and walked out. But i am completely freaking out because it was so hard to say no. I just wrote this morning that my feelings were beginning to evolve in a way that made me feel removed from all this, and now I am right back in the thick of it.

Keep your husband in mind NOW. Forget the OM.

 

QUIT YOUR JOB, you have no choice now unless you want to continue to do this song and dance with your boss. He KNOWS he has you under his thumb. Why on earth would you want to stick around a job when there is NO HR department and he can do whatever he wants to you. To make matters worse, those feelings you have for him are back. There's NO WAY you can salvage your marriage and get the feelings back for your husband if you still work at that job. Please quit. You can find something else, even if it isn't in your immediate field. You and your husband can cook and stay in more than go out. Spend less money and spend wisely..

[soserious1]

I will be thinking of him tonight, but not in the way that you think. I am quite angry. We are a small company, so there is no HR department to report him to, and he's the boss -- so no luck. He did not force himself on me, he just kept coming closer and closer, sort of lurking.

 

Anyway, it absolutely astounds me as to some people's reactions on this forum. It is clear that for some who have been cheated on, life has become black and white. You're a cheater, or you are not a cheater.

 

From reading many different threads, it seems to me that there are many different reasons that people cheat, and many different circumstances that get them there. Some people are actually looking for the relationship -- seeking it out before it is even apparent. Some people seem to have a sexual addiction. Some people appear to crave the drama. And some people fall into a single situation with one person which seemingly may never happen again.

 

Dexter, I have tried to reply as civilized as I can to you, because I can tell that you have been wounded. However, with the amount of time that has passed since you were cheated on, I am concerned that you have not grown past it more than you have. Frankly, you are clearly so bitter about it that you cannot even see reality straight. And you are so affected by it that you are willing to make snap judgements about people that you love. Marriage is unconditional. However, you entered into your current marriage with a conditional love. I am not trying to be bitter towards you -- i just really wish that you would be compassionate enough towards your wife to give her the benefit of the doubt long enough to save your marriage if you ever get to that point.

 

Dexter, I have read many of the posts that you spend an unbelievable amount of time writing, and I wonder how in the world you think that you are healed. The anger and disdain that drips from your words is truly disappointing and unhelpful. I truly would value constructive help from someone who has been in your position, but all you have offered are horrible judgements with very angry words. I would think that you would be energized to find out that there are people out there, who when they find themselves thrown into tempting situations, choose to say no and fight for their marriage.

 

And, you need to really, really take a good look in the mirror. Do you truly believe that you have always put your spouse first? You have never put anything before her? I do not believe that anyone can make that claim. You have put your hurt relationship with your ex wife above your relationship with your current wife by setting the rule that if she messes up in the least bit she will be kicked to the curb. I have not even kissed my boss, and you have completely dismissed my ability to be in a committed relationship. How much time do you spend thinking about the betrayal, or writing to other people on the internet? Are you not choosing to spend that time doing all those unhealthy things instead of being with your wife?

 

Take a look in the mirror and stop trying to trash people who are honestly reaching out for help to try to better themselves.

 

 

Show me where Dexter took naked pictures and sent them to anyone besides his wife. Show me where Dexter wasted hours,days,weeks,month's of his wife's time by constantly thinking about, having fantasy about another woman, like all the perfectly good time you've cheated your husband out of?

 

 

You are posting on a board that is meant to support those who have been wounded by their spouse's infidelity.. this section of the forum isn't here to pat you on the head and shower you with sympathy and forgiveness.that you would make a post such as this shows you in my mind to be exactly what you are.. a weak willed woman prone to making rationalizations and excuses for herself and her behavior,the kind of woman who sits in a poorly lit company rest room contorting herself into position to take naked pictures for her boss and then sits here wondering why the boss continues to attempt to approach her. You treated yourself as no better than a slab of cheap beef, why wouldn't the boss keep approaching you? you've shown him exactly what you are,the real pity here is that you've also show who you are to your husband, who hasn't opened his eyes enough yet to see that you belong out on the curb come next trash day.

[anne1707]

Mandy

 

So you are not happy with Dexter's attitude to you and you just put that down to him being a bitter, former BS. You haven't exactly helped with posts where you contradict yourself on the sexual activity with your boss - it makes others wonder what is the real truth to anything you say. However maybe my opinion is one you will listen to then.

 

I had an affair with a colleague which ended 6 months ago. It is in a small company. There is no HR department. No where to transfer to. I cannot avoid working with him. I cannot afford to just quit my job (my H agrees with this). But I am looking for a job.

 

So what do I think? Stop allowing yourself to think of the EX-OM - get that "EX". As long as you think about him, your marriage cannot heal. You need to be honest with your H and tell him about you being "cornered". However I also have to ask - and be really honest here - did any of your actions help this to happen, were you secretly pleased that it happened, that he still shows interest in you. The longer these kind of things happen, the less chance you have of really ending the affair (because to you and him there is still a chance of it resuming).

 

If you find yourself thinking about the EX-OM, then you just have to stop it. Sounds simple and when you really want to do that, it is. If you start thinking about it, start counting backwards from 1000. Sounds silly but it can work. Get him out of your head and you will feel stronger and more in control.

 

Now for your marriage. You need to be honest and open with your H. If he asks a question, you answer it. If he wants to know where you are, who you are with and when you will be back, tell him. Avoid social occasions at work - way too complicated for all concerned if you put yourself in this risky situation. Look for another job - really look. Get in to IC for yourself (ensuring the focus is on making your marriage work) and both you and your H need to go to MC. You cannot do this all by yourself.

 

Now for the posts on LS. I know when I started my threads when everything was coming out about my affair, that I was criticised. What did I think about that? I thought it was fair enough - deserved. The only one I objected to was when somebody said I was a prostitute. Other than that, I accepted that many would express anger etc at my actions. And then there were those who offered support and gave me excellent advice (especially Owl). But it ALL helped me. It helped me to see what I was doing and the harm I was causing. It helped me to focus back on my marriage. The fog cleared.

 

I really do wish you luck. Be strong.