somewhat victorious over temptation

[JustBreathe]

This was posted by you, Mandy, on 12/8/08

 

"I have been flirting, hugging, rubbing and having oral sex with a man at work."

 

 

 

Get well soon, Mandy.

[Owl]

And she's since come back and recanted that statement on this thread.

 

What the reality is, only she and her boss know. All WE can do is post advice to her based on what she's told us.

 

There's no value in trying to beat her up. Yes, she lied at some point in her posts here. If you feel this makes posting a response to her impossible...then wouldn't everyone be better off by just not responding rather than to beat her down over it?

[mandydarling]

If you are not willing to take my word for the fact that we did not have oral sex, and that that previous post was a lie, then I don't know what to say. I am honestly looking for support and advice here.

 

I have successfully stopped the affair since before Christmas, and am still feeling very strongly rooted in that effort. Nothing has happened between us since then, and I do not forsee anything more happening.

 

Again, SORRY for lying in the previous thread about the oral sex. Everything in this thread is true.

 

I have suggested counseling, but am leaving it up to my husband. I have told two of my close friends who are now acting as accountability partners to me.

 

I don't think that it is the OM I am missing. I think that I am just missing the beginning of a relationship excitement. You know, the kind of feeling where your heart skips a beat when someone looks at you from across the room. That is hard to recapture after years of marriage.

 

I absolutely will not go back to this or any other affair. The guilt has been overwhelming, and I am worth more than that. I never would have guessed even six months ago that I would ever have done any of this. I would have laughed at anyone who would have suggested that I might. People who know me well have been absolutely shocked by this, and it has caused them to protect their marriages more.

 

If you think you are completely invincible, think again. This snuck up on me over the course of many years, and I never saw it coming. Then, when it began with a little flirting, it was fun and harmless. When the flirting got more serious, I thought that it was just a way for us to make each other feel a little better about ourselves. Then it just snowballed.

 

For everyone reading this -- protect your marriage and yourself. No one is invincible.

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

mandy,

 

we have interacted before, and I am so happy to here that you have accountability. Your depression is because you are not getting that chemical high because of sneaking around. How is your sex with your husband? Has that fizzled at all. What you need to do is investigate ways to spice up your marriage. You can call your husband and seduce him during the day. Or you can text him some of those pics you are famous for LOL. Get away to bed and breakfast and skip the breakfast part. There are other things you can do that are unconventional but are completely acceptable between man and wife that do not include porn. If you have had babies through vaginal delivery and not cesarian section and have not returned to your pre pregnancy taughtness, there are ways that involve your husbands clenched hand that can bring back that pre delivery feel. You need to be creative with your husband and he needs to be creative with you. Like anything in relationships the more you put into it, the more you get out of it. It's great to hear that things are going better between you and your husband.

[mandydarling]

The anger has surfaced, and i am trying to roll with the punches. I am trying not to react, and I keep telling myself that I brought all this on myself.

 

Then sometimes, I start to defend myself in my head -- when will I get credit for stopping the affair? When will i get credit for coming clean about it?

 

I know that sounds selfish. Even reading it after I wrote it, I feel ashamed. I know that I did wrong, but I am trying to make it right. It is so hard not to point that out to him constantly.

 

I still think that we will make it through this. I am just hoping that this phase passes quickly. Any advice?

[lkjh]

Do not point it out. You don't get credit for stopping it. You may one day and the fact that he is still there shows that he acknowledges it.

[hunkahunkaburninlove]

Yes, keep your mouth shut. No excuses, no credit, you think about things from his side. And think "how much credit would i give him for stopping something he shouldn't be doing in the first place?"

 

When that happens. you take the hit. because if you do and keep your mouth shut. He will work through the anger. Here is some scripture for you.

 

A gentle answer turns away wrath.

 

So no excuses. If you make an excuse. You send him back to the day of discovery and he will have to start healing all over again. Do you want to go back there? The only thing that comes out of your mouth. is "You're right, I know I screwed up. Thank you for giving me a chance to redeem myself. I love you very much and would never do anything like that again."

[Dexter Morgan]

I don't know how to say it to convince you, but there was no oral sex...........

 

So, please, no more comments about oral sex. It did not happen, thank God.

 

 

This was posted by you, Mandy, on 12/8/08

 

"I have been flirting, hugging, rubbing and having oral sex with a man at work."

 

 

 

Get well soon, Mandy.

 

All I have to say regarding the backpeddaling of the OP......nice try.

[Dexter Morgan]

If you are not willing to take my word for the fact that we did not have oral sex, and that that previous post was a lie, then I don't know what to say. I am honestly looking for support and advice here.

 

It was given, you just don't want to hear it.

 

Start looking for another job. You quit your current job ONLY when you have found another one. And if you can't find one, you KEEP looking.

 

No excuses. If you aren't willing to do that, then your husband isn't that important to you. He may agree you don't quit your job, but as stated, you don't quit it UNTIL you find another one.

 

If you really say you care about your husband, then you will show him by doing this AT THE VERY LEAST.

 

 

I have successfully stopped the affair since before Christmas, and am still feeling very strongly rooted in that effort. Nothing has happened between us since then, and I do not forsee anything more happening.

 

Until you or this man find another job, the chances that something will happen are all to good.

 

 

Again, SORRY for lying in the previous thread about the oral sex. Everything in this thread is true.

 

What did you lie about? When you said you HAD oral sex with this guy, that was a lie? Why would you lie about that?

 

Why don't you just admit it. YOU DID HAVE ORAL SEX with your boss. You are trying to be able to lay claim to the idea that you didn't go too far.

 

Sorry, you did and you know it. If you can't own up to that to a bunch of strangers that don't know who you are, you aren't going to EVER own up to anything you do and take responsibility for what you do to this marriage.

 

 

I don't think that it is the OM I am missing. I think that I am just missing the beginning of a relationship excitement.

 

Well that isn't about to get exorcised out of you anytime soon. This will be your problem througout life.

 

 

You know, the kind of feeling where your heart skips a beat when someone looks at you from across the room. That is hard to recapture after years of marriage.

 

I hate to break it to you, that feeling doesn't come back. The key word here is "new". If the relationship isn't "new", then that feeling you are describing won't be there. For most people, that feeling is replaced by a better feeling. The feeling of being loved for the rest of your life by another person.

 

If the "new" feeling is important to you, then maybe you shouldn't be married.

 

 

If you think you are completely invincible, think again.

 

sorry, some of us here ARE invincible. Just because you aren't, don't think others out there can resist another person outside our relationships.

 

 

This snuck up on me over the course of many years, and I never saw it coming. Then, when it began with a little flirting, it was fun and harmless.

 

As you have amply proven, flirting is rarely harmless. Its there because you are attracted to someone else and flirting is a way of acting on that attraction, whether you end up in bed or not.

 

 

For everyone reading this -- protect your marriage and yourself. No one is invincible.

 

Yes, some ARE invincible. Just because it happened to you, doesn't mean others don't have more intestinal fortitude to do right by the people they love.

[Dexter Morgan]

The anger has surfaced, and i am trying to roll with the punches. I am trying not to react, and I keep telling myself that I brought all this on myself.

 

Then sometimes, I start to defend myself in my head -- when will I get credit for stopping the affair? When will i get credit for coming clean about it?

 

While admirable, you don't get any points for coming clean or ending an affair.

 

 

I know that sounds selfish.

 

It doesn't sound selfish. It IS selfish. The focus now is on who you betrayed. It isn't about you any longer. You had your fun with your boss, and now want things to go a little smoother on you now that your husband knows? Thats not the way it works.

 

 

Even reading it after I wrote it, I feel ashamed. I know that I did wrong, but I am trying to make it right. It is so hard not to point that out to him constantly.

 

I still think that we will make it through this. I am just hoping that this phase passes quickly. Any advice?

 

You still need to hunt for another job. And you KEEP hunting til you find one. Keep your current job until then, but you keep looking even if it takes years.

[mandydarling]

I am looking for another job. However, it is a scary concept to be on the "bottom of the totem pole" with the economy as it is. If i go to another job, I might be the first to be cut since I am the newest.

 

Dexter - you may not like hearing the "other side" of the affair. I fully acknowledge how awful I was (and am). I realize that it is not comfortable to hear that I actually have feelings, and that this is not just a cut and dry thing. It's not comfortable to hear that someone can be completely committed to fixing their relationship, and still have inappropriate feelings that they plan not to act on. I am honestly expressing what i am going through, hoping that if someone else was in the same position, and found things that worked or things that failed horribly, they might give me some insight. This is my first (and last) time that i have been in this position, and i am feeling horribly disoriented.

 

It's not just the person who was cheated on who has their life turned upside down. Even though it is my own fault that my life is a mess, it does not change the fact that it is a mess and i have to figure out how to pick up the pieces, one by one.

 

I am not asking for anyone to pardon me, or to tell me that everything will be okay.

[Owl]

Where are you at on going to MC...on getting a PLAN for rebuilding and recovery of your marriage?

 

Have you read "Surviving an Affair" by Dr Harley?

 

Found an MC in the area who has a good strong plan and track record for helping marriages recover from infidelity?

 

Have you found ways to begin rebuilding the damaged trust?

 

These are CRITICAL...where are you at on these things?

[NoIDidn't]

Mandy, I agree with Owl. If you really want to pick up the pieces, you need to have a workable plan. Or you'll just fall back into something else destructive or distracting that makes you feel better.

 

Sorry, but you don't get credit for stopping what should not have happened. You will have to tell your H that he is very entitled to his anger but if you two are to go forward he will have to work through it and you are willing to help him. You will also need to tell him that you will need his help at this time too. But give each other some space right now to digest what has happened and how your reality has changed.

 

My H promised me he wouldn't make any drastic decisions for a period of time and I promised him the same. It kept us from doing anything based purely on emotion - and there is a lot of that following the revelation of an affair.

 

Time, space, honesty, and rebuilding trust are what is needed.

[Dexter Morgan]

I am looking for another job.

 

Fantastic! glad to hear it.

 

 

However, it is a scary concept to be on the "bottom of the totem pole" with the economy as it is. If i go to another job, I might be the first to be cut since I am the newest.

 

Better than being "cut" by your husband if he comes to the realization that you don't care about him if you don't make this effort, isn't it?

 

 

 

Dexter - you may not like hearing the "other side" of the affair.

 

Thats because your "side" is the side that causes the pain. What is scary about hearing the betrayed side?

 

 

 

I fully acknowledge how awful I was (and am). I realize that it is not comfortable to hear that I actually have feelings, and that this is not just a cut and dry thing.

 

comfortable or not, your feelings of wanting a "new" person to gratify you isn't something your husband should put up with. And if you crave that feeling, then like I said, marriage is not for you.

 

 

It's not comfortable to hear that someone can be completely committed to fixing their relationship, and still have inappropriate feelings that they plan not to act on.

 

But the problem is, you can say you won't act on them all you want. The problem with people with this type of character are doomed to repeat their betrayals if and when the opportune moment arises where they don't think their SO will ever find out.

 

 

I am honestly expressing what i am going through, hoping that if someone else was in the same position, and found things that worked or things that failed horribly, they might give me some insight. This is my first (and last) time that i have been in this position, and i am feeling horribly disoriented.

 

 

Fair enough. but what you need to realize is, no matter how hard you try, you will NEVER get back what you had 100%. Not saying it can't survive, but someone can survive a shark attack and still have a huge chunk taken out of them. So even though you might think you can resist any temptations in the future, your husband is now forever scarred, whether he shows it or not. he can heal, but the scar will always be there. he will always have a doubt about you from here on out. He may just choose to keep such doubts to himself no matter how big or small.

[Owl]

 

Fair enough. but what you need to realize is, no matter how hard you try, you will NEVER get back what you had 100%. Not saying it can't survive, but someone can survive a shark attack and still have a huge chunk taken out of them. So even though you might think you can resist any temptations in the future, your husband is now forever scarred, whether he shows it or not. he can heal, but the scar will always be there. he will always have a doubt about you from here on out. He may just choose to keep such doubts to himself no matter how big or small.

 

Dex, this is YOUR viewpoint, but not absolutely shared by everyone.

 

Yes, her H will have scars. So will she.

 

It doesn't mean that he can't rebuild his trust. It doesn't mean that she's ruined the relationship forever. It doesn't mean that they can't have a great, healthy, happy relationship afterwards.

 

As I said before...those 'scars' are his regardless of if he stays with her or were to divorce and find someone else. That "blind trust" is gone regardless of WHO he is with.

 

I'm in a happily recovered marriage. I know of what I speak.

 

I'm hoping that MD can see that there is still hope too. Dex's side isn't the only one out there.

 

Some people cannot recover from cheating. Some marriages can't.

 

Some can.

 

You need to do the work to find out which it is in YOUR situation.

[Dexter Morgan]

Dex, this is YOUR viewpoint, but not absolutely shared by everyone.

 

And YOUR viewpoint is YOURs as well. Am I missing something here?

 

 

Yes, her H will have scars. So will she.

 

It doesn't mean that he can't rebuild his trust.

 

I can say with total confidence that it will never be 100%. Sure she might be able to rebuild it, but there will always be some doubt in his mind from time to time. And it may just be an inkling of a doubt.

 

 

It doesn't mean that she's ruined the relationship forever.

 

Maybe, maybe not, but it won't be what it was. Ther relationship is now this.......one of them is a cheater. he will remember this and it won't settle well with him when he does happen to think about it.

 

Not saying the M can't survive. It very well could. But what is surviving to one may be settling for a living hell for another.

 

 

It doesn't mean that they can't have a great, healthy, happy relationship afterwards.

 

As I said before...those 'scars' are his regardless of if he stays with her or were to divorce and find someone else.

 

This is where I disagree. I would have definitely been scarred and kept those scars if I stayed with my xW. I am now in a relationship where I don't have to worry about my new SO. I trust her completely until she gives me a reason to not. So no scar was brought into this new relationship. I see divorce as kind of plastic surgery to remove the scar and the cause of the symptom.

 

 

That "blind trust" is gone regardless of WHO he is with.

 

Depends. It wasn't with me. And its never completely blind whether you are scarred or not. For example, you can trust your SO completely, but still wouldn't want them going to a swingers party or something.

 

 

I'm in a happily recovered marriage. I know of what I speak.

 

I'm hoping that MD can see that there is still hope too. Dex's side isn't the only one out there.

 

I certainly don't understand where this message is coming from since I am one of the few that speak of the alternative to that which you and many others here do.

 

Is your view the only one?

 

 

Some people cannot recover from cheating. Some marriages can't.

 

Some can.

 

You need to do the work to find out which it is in YOUR situation.

 

I can go along with this. however I don't think hers can unless her character and attitude changes. if she is craving other men or the excitement of a brand new relationship, then she is doing her husband and marriage a disservice and will backslide with another guy in the future.

 

That coupled with the fact that she lied about what really happened to a group of strangers on an internet forum to downplay whether she went "too far". If she can't own up to what she did to people in a forum like this, she is screwed in her own marriage if her husband ever wakes up.

[Reggie]

I don't know how to say it to convince you, but there was no oral sex. As I stated earlier, I was tempted to take it to that level, and wrote to this forum for the first time to see the reaction I would get. I think that I already knew that the reaction would be outrage, but I needed the outrage to talk myself out of it.

 

I could not talk to anyone I know, so you guys became my voice of reason. I am sorry for lying, but it did stop me from making an awful mistake.

 

So, please, no more comments about oral sex. It did not happen, thank God. The description at the beginning of this thread was the honest truth.

 

I can completely relate to this fabrication thing. Just today, as I was talking to my secretary, I mentioned that I'd gone down on my supervisor. Of course, there was no truth to it, but, I thought my story about missing a deadline would be more compelling if I threw that in. I thought this would ensure that she gave me her complete attention and I'd receive better advice.

So, this makes complete sense to me.

[Owl]

Dex, the vehemence and anger in your posts to OW and WS on this forum reflect your scars every day. Your views on marital recovery after infidelity show those scars may be scabbed over, but damage still runs deep.

 

You didn't get plastic surgery when you divorced...you just changed bandages.

 

I guess we'll simply have to "agree to disagree" on our viewpoints on recovery, and continue to post what we believe is the best for each circumstance.

[Reggie]

Scarred or not, OWl, I think Dex's view, based on my reading, reflects how the vast majority of men do after their spouse's cheat. This Pollyanna stuff about a better stronger marriage is a lof of BS for most and sets up a virtually unattainable goal.

If I'm in business with an embezzler, I don't continue with her. Deep down, a person that has been cheated on knows with certainty that when the chips are down(and even when they are not) he cannot rely on his spouse's loyalty.

[Owl]

Deep down when the chips are flying...you can count on ANYONE doing what's solely in their own best interests. Loyalty usually goes out the window at that point.

 

I trust human nature to take over at that point everytime.

 

I'll agree with you that many men do end up feeling the way that you do, Reg. Same with Dex.

 

What I want to point out is that not all of us do.

 

And the doom and gloom posts of doom aren't going to help ANYONE to try to recover.

 

If you want MD to give up and divorce...telling them that their hopes for reconciliation are useless will definitely steer them that way.

 

If you want to let her and her H figure out what to do from there, then post both possibilities, and perhaps even tell her why your own situation turned out to be unrecovereable...and what MIGHT have changed things to let you reconcile.

 

But simply lashing out because your marriage couldn't recover, and providing no 'plan' to help her avoid that same happenstance...all it does is justify your stance. You set the stage for her to repeat your situation. You don't give her any information on how to AVOID that, other than to bash her for what she's done up to this point.

 

If there's nothing to be done to help the situation...why bother posting to her at all?

[Reggie]

Yeah, but OWl this is where we differ on what constitutes helping. Seems there ia a bit of a double standard in that it is okay for some sites to give misinformation about the likelihood of real recovery but it is frowned upon to desseminate info that doing so is unlikely.

Perhaps it is helpful for folks to realize that they have not failed if the relationship does not recover and that ending the relationship is the most common result of infidelity.

I'm all for folks taking whatever path suits them. But, it is unrealistic and gives false hope to pretend that survival is anything other than a longshot, IMO.

[seibert253]

When trust in a relationship is violated, it can be repaired to a degree, but never be what it once was. Doubt will always raise it's ugly head. Over time, once we gain confidence our spouse will not repeat the trust destroying behavior, we become comfortable. Over time, doubts and fears diminish, but they are always there to reimerge at a moments notice.

Just my .02

[Owl]

Actually, here we do agree, Reggie.

 

I would agree that its fair to point out that they may not recover. That it's possible, even probable, especially if they don't put in the effort and time needed to make it happen.

 

And I would agree that "personal recovery" absolutely can be attained without recovering the marriage.

 

But...marital recovery...IMO...is NOT a "long shot". Not if both parties WANT to recovery.

 

Here's the distinction.

 

I don't truly believe that you, or Dex for that matter...WANTED to try to recover your marriages after you learned of the cheating. I may be assuming here...you tell me the truth of what happened in your situation.

 

But it sounds to me like you made up your mind very, very soon after learning about your spouses's affair.

 

In that case...your marriages WERE unrecoverable...and the only focus you had left was personal recovery.

 

Nothing wrong with that...at all.

 

BUT...if her H decides he wants to recover...then that "ups the odds" that they CAN recover...tremendously.

 

That baseline difference is KEY.

 

In your case...how long did you WANT to save your marriage after d-day? How long did you work at it? If you did try...what was the "straw" that ended your efforts?

 

Or did you come to the immediate conclusion that there was no marital recovery to be had?

 

I'm curious...my experience (both personal and on all these forums) has shown me that you get out of things what you put into them. If you tried to recover your marriage, how long/how hard/what did you do to try to get to that point? Or did you decide immediately that this wasn't the path for you?

[Dexter Morgan]

I don't truly believe that you, or Dex for that matter...WANTED to try to recover your marriages after you learned of the cheating. I may be assuming here

 

You'd be assuming. Initially, I wanted to try, but I realized it was for all the wrong reasons. Because in the end, I knew that I'd be settling for a cheater.

 

 

But it sounds to me like you made up your mind very, very soon after learning about your spouses's affair.

 

I'd say it was less than 2 months.

 

 

In that case...your marriages WERE unrecoverable...and the only focus you had left was personal recovery.

 

It was unrecoverable because I wasn't going to be played for a fool. I am not going to spend my life pretending my W at the time turned out to be someone other than who I married.

 

 

 

BUT...if her H decides he wants to recover...then that "ups the odds" that they CAN recover...tremendously.

 

No argument there. but question is, is he really wanting the M for her? Or to keep a comfortable situation? In other words, wanting to avoid things like the expense and chaos of a divorce?

[Reggie]

Well, OWl in my case, because I wanted my kids to have an intact family, I was willing to try. I confronted and get denial. I had airtight, private investigator proof, phone records, credit card statements , etc all showing what was going on. And, in hindsigth, I was proven 100% right.

Despite all this, I got more lies and denying, as well as rage and abuse. For me, I had no choice.

I think some of these marriages may be salvageable, but i doubt they are ever great.

I've done very well post divorce and have a good life. I want others to see that the D option can be a very good one. Some WS's are abusres even before the A(they are all abusers once they cheat, as therapists will tell you it is the most severe form of emotional abuse) and one does better using the affair as a get out of jail free card.

There is a lot of garbage out there from sites that promote a therapist's services for a fee. The stuff I've read says that the vast majority of guys that stay regret it a year or so down the road.

Like Dex, I could not see myself staying with someone that put a knife through my heart. I'd be settling for a second rate, tainted marriage. I'd never be able to fully relax and trust.

Did I want to reconcile? Initially, yes, I was willing to try. But, I know it would have bothered me forever. And, it does most folks, IMO.