Adri Ana Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 and then there are those that really thrive on drama and crisis in their lives. i know from experience. What is drama and crisis for you ? What you call it ? What is your experience about this ?
Dexter Morgan Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 Yeah, I heard on the radio, some research stated that the "Average" looking guy made better marriage material than the gorgeous hunks. Seems like being VERY good looking comes with a downside....good looking people don't need to treat you nice, because well.....they don't have to. Well, that and the people who are so full of themselves and think they are god's gift to the opposite sex think they should share themselves with as many people as they want. Again, not saying that people with good looks are all that way, but thats usually the norm.
movingonandon Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 _________________________________________________ Per me a Real Woman must BE (!) an entitled BITCH (yes!) Independent Woman outside (not a bitch prostitute I mean,u got me, and she has to have that charm which attracts people to her and not distracts) and a sweet caring partner at home ,such a kitty katty . What IS wrong in this ? Nothing, except that it doesn't exist in reality. in reallity, we have the dilemma I have *right now*: do i commit to the A. sweet, and nice, and caring, and sane girl with not such a great ambitions I'm currently dating or B. to the stubborn, career-orriented, devious one I'm inclined to pull the trigger on? Both of them hott. both of them suit (different aspects of) my personality. go figure. It seems that the only prudent thing to do is to date both of them, until the whole thing explodes in my face :cool:. At least I'll have had enough sex + drama to last me a year
Trialbyfire Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 Again, not saying that people with good looks are all that way, but thats usually the norm. What kind of good-looking people do you know? Sure, there are self-entitled types some attractive, average and ugly, but from what I've experienced, the ratio on a percentage basis is fairly equal.
Adri Ana Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 Nothing, except that it doesn't exist in reality. in reallity, we have the dilemma I have *right now*: do i commit to the A. sweet, and nice, and caring, and sane girl with not such a great ambitions I'm currently dating or B. to the stubborn, career-orriented, devious one I'm inclined to pull the trigger on? Both of them hott. both of them suit (different aspects of) my personality. go figure. It seems that the only prudent thing to do is to date both of them, until the whole thing explodes in my face :cool:. At least I'll have had enough sex + drama to last me a year Heh ! The type ,I have told u about is talking to you at the moment. But it` s a luck ,you know, to meet me in life .. _______________________________ yeah,it will all explode in your face,am sure,u wont like it at last..beware,be careful..two women together may tear you apart .. lol
kizik Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 I rarely turn down a date based on outward appearances, unless there is no attraction whatsoever.. so there are no entitlement issues here. I don't think all women who are able to enjoy dating/being single have a sense of entitlement. If I found that man that filled my desires right now, I would look no further. In the meantime I am not going to complain... because, welll, life isn't that bad with lil ol' me. How you doin'?
torranceshipman Posted December 26, 2008 Posted December 26, 2008 Adri Ana you misunderstood my post - I said settle (as in, settle for less than you should-i.e. compromise, simply to have someone), not settle down (and of course all women would love to settle down...BUT with the RIGHT guy, not mr average that they settled for in the absence of the right guy). There's a BIG difference! I would love to settle down with the RIGHT guy but I'm very comfortable to wait and be single until I'm absolutely sure that I've met the right person....no settling (compromising) for me!
510 Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 Star Gazer and others, get an education and read this and watch the video clip. Why it’s OK to settle for Mr. Good Enough http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23053553/ women with low self esteem.. I didn't even read the entire article just a couple of lines. Makes no sense but that's about what it is. I'm over 30 and having the time of my life. Men are attracted to positive, confident women. And as a woman I get tired of hearing women complain about there not being any good men out there. My friends will say, "except for you ????, we never meet anybody good?" Well if you are bringing that attitude to the table I can see why. No man wants to hear your complaining and walking about with a woa is me attitude. But a little advice for the men who also buy into this.. keep a positive approach, don't get negative and buy into this either. Because when a negative man approaches me with the same disposition as these women.. I don't want no part of it.. you are not sucking all of my energy out of me...
movingonandon Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 The more I read this thread, the more I'm convinced that our grand parents had it right (there's a reason they're the greatest generation ever). THat' exactly what they did: they found somebody good enough early in life and committed and stuck with it. No complaining, not fooling around, for the most part. Just made up their minds with little or no whining, and then got down to real business. Such as fighting two wars and surviving the depression. I see nothing wrong with desiring to find somebody great, but the problem is that this attitude is being taken to the extreme, as blatantly obvious on these pages. People reject people for petty and stupid reasons all the time (and I'm quilty of the same) in the endless pursuit of Mr. or Ms. perfect that will take care of "all my needs". Well, she/he won't. With this attitude it is only a matter of time until we die alone.
Author motive2002 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Posted December 27, 2008 I'm glad to see this discussion spring into so many pages. Obviously it's hit a nerve with a lot of people. Some people will just never be content with what they have. When no man is good enough, what are you going to do?
allina Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 I'm still shocked by the bitterness of some men here. It's something I was unaware of before joining LS. But so many men here are down right angry at women for having preferences, likes/dislikes and standards. I've also seen men here get angry at a woman for not being interested in him because he thought she had no right to reject him and can't do any better. Who are they to dictate what is an acceptable reason to reject someone and what isn't. I don't get it. I had no idea that this was such a common attitude among the men who have less success with women They act as if a woman should thank her lucky starts that some man wants her, despite how she feels about him and gratefully be his. And then I see them reminisce about the "good 'ol days" when women had to marry by a certain age and be obedient housewives with little input and power
movingonandon Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 I'm still shocked by the bitterness of some men here. It's something I was unaware of before joining LS. But so many men here are down right angry at women for having preferences, likes/dislikes and standards. I've also seen men here get angry at a woman for not being interested in him because he thought she had no right to reject him and can't do any better. Who are they to dictate what is an acceptable reason to reject someone and what isn't. I don't get it. I had no idea that this was such a common attitude among the men who have less success with women They act as if a woman should thank her lucky starts that some man wants her, despite how she feels about him and gratefully be his. And then I see them reminisce about the "good 'ol days" when women had to marry by a certain age and be obedient housewives with little input and power I don't think anybody is bitter here, at least not me. If anything, I'm (mildly) amused by the logical contradictions of the "preferences" argument. Of course everybody should have preferences, of course everybody should be true to those preferences, etc. so that's not the real issue. The issue is that if you're late 30s and still not maried, there is a BIG, FAT chance that those preferences *are* unreasonable (you can blame only so much on probability and luck) . And, after that peak in mid to late 30s - the older you get, the slimmer the chance to attract that magical person. Go ahead and call me a disgusting chauvinist pig - I am, and I've never been happier in my interactions with women, so you'll be missing the point ! Which is that we should act as adults, not as kids in a candy store. If we wait long enough our teeth will fall out and we won't be able to enjoy the rest of the candy, even if there is some left in the store. (Plus, all the variety of candy in the end is based on the same ingredients anyway.)
Trialbyfire Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 I'm still shocked by the bitterness of some men here. It's something I was unaware of before joining LS. But so many men here are down right angry at women for having preferences, likes/dislikes and standards. I've also seen men here get angry at a woman for not being interested in him because he thought she had no right to reject him and can't do any better. Who are they to dictate what is an acceptable reason to reject someone and what isn't. I don't get it. I had no idea that this was such a common attitude among the men who have less success with women They act as if a woman should thank her lucky starts that some man wants her, despite how she feels about him and gratefully be his. And then I see them reminisce about the "good 'ol days" when women had to marry by a certain age and be obedient housewives with little input and power I'm with you allina. The overall attitude is one where a lot of men are attempting to leverage themselves off of women, while attempting to play the victim. It's disturbing to read. If it's not working for you, fix it.
Author motive2002 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Posted December 27, 2008 I'm still shocked by the bitterness of some men here. It's something I was unaware of before joining LS. But so many men here are down right angry at women for having preferences, likes/dislikes and standards. I've also seen men here get angry at a woman for not being interested in him because he thought she had no right to reject him and can't do any better. Who are they to dictate what is an acceptable reason to reject someone and what isn't. I don't get it. I had no idea that this was such a common attitude among the men who have less success with women They act as if a woman should thank her lucky starts that some man wants her, despite how she feels about him and gratefully be his. And then I see them reminisce about the "good 'ol days" when women had to marry by a certain age and be obedient housewives with little input and power This isn't about Stepford wives, this is about attention whores. I don't want a Stepford wife, and I don't want to be the "guy for now" until something better comes along either. I never said having preferences or standards was unacceptable, but if a guy doesn't meet those standards, don't string him along just because you need the attention. That's bull****.
movingonandon Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 This isn't about Stepford wives, this is about attention whores. I don't want a Stepford wife, and I don't want to be the "guy for now" until something better comes along either. I never said having preferences or standards was unacceptable, but if a guy doesn't meet those standards, don't string him along just because you need the attention. That's bull****. I share the resentment, but that said, I'm also willing to cut the "enemy camp" a (minimal) amount of slack here. Basically it is not that easy to pinpoint the exact moment when it becomes apparent when/if somebody isn't meeting your standards. I'm in the middle of this thought process right now - it's hard for me to tell if I'm just stringing the girl I'm currently dating along (since of course I enjoy all the, um..., perks of having a girlfriend) or indeed getting to know her and giving it all a fair chance... I have some impressions of things I might not like, but they're just that - impressions and I don't even know if they're accurate. I guess some rule of thumb is in order. For example - if 6 months and still ambivalent, call it off?
Author motive2002 Posted December 27, 2008 Author Posted December 27, 2008 I share the resentment, but that said, I'm also willing to cut the "enemy camp" a (minimal) amount of slack here. Basically it is not that easy to pinpoint the exact moment when it becomes apparent when/if somebody isn't meeting your standards. I'm in the middle of this thought process right now - it's hard for me to tell if I'm just stringing the girl I'm currently dating along (since of course I enjoy all the, um..., perks of having a girlfriend) or indeed getting to know her and giving it all a fair chance... I have some impressions of things I might not like, but they're just that - impressions and I don't even know if they're accurate. I guess some rule of thumb is in order. For example - if 6 months and still ambivalent, call it off? Well, let me ask you this, are you seeing 4 or 5 other girls in the meantime? Are you actively flirting with other women while you are kinda playing house with the one you mentioned?
allina Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 I don't think anybody is bitter here, at least not me. If anything, I'm (mildly) amused by the logical contradictions of the "preferences" argument. Of course everybody should have preferences, of course everybody should be true to those preferences, etc. so that's not the real issue. The issue is that if you're late 30s and still not maried, there is a BIG, FAT chance that those preferences *are* unreasonable (you can blame only so much on probability and luck) . And, after that peak in mid to late 30s - the older you get, the slimmer the chance to attract that magical person. Go ahead and call me a disgusting chauvinist pig - I am, and I've never been happier in my interactions with women, so you'll be missing the point ! Which is that we should act as adults, not as kids in a candy store. If we wait long enough our teeth will fall out and we won't be able to enjoy the rest of the candy, even if there is some left in the store. (Plus, all the variety of candy in the end is based on the same ingredients anyway.) I didn't mean specifically you. I've seen many men display the behavior I described both in this thread or others. Also, I never called you a disgusting chauvinist pig, it's not really a term I use, or an attitude I have about men I assume you thought I was calling you chauvinist because I mentioned that these bitter men want a society where women have little power and choice. I used this as an example because I feel like these men, who I usually consider the less desirable, bottom shelf types can't make it with women in today's society and want a traditional society where they feel like it was easier to get a woman. I'm not in complete disagreement with you about being realistic. If I knew of a woman who was 35, overweight, ugly, uneducated and uninteresting who was turning down men left and right, all while complaining about not being married yet, I would think she needs to lower her standards. By lowering standards I mean get to know a few guys who may not meet some race, height, hair color requirement, because she might true love in one of those guys. However, when it comes to marriage settling for a man who is good enough, as that article mentioned, is a horrible idea. We're talking a life long commitment here, there needs to be love, honest, passionate love. Marring someone you're lukewarm about is an awful idea, and unfair to both individuals. There is plenty in life we'll have to settle with, I don't think a life partner is one of them. Personally, I have a loooooong list of things I want in a man, and an equally long one of things I don't want. I've had angry, bitter men here call me shallow, selfish, lots of things. These men have major issues, they get flat out angry when a woman rejects a guy or stops dating a guy she isn't developing feelings for. It's predictable and tacky behavior that makes these men even more undesirable.
TwilightSky Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 I didn't mean specifically you. I've seen many men display the behavior I described both in this thread or others. Also, I never called you a disgusting chauvinist pig, it's not really a term I use, or an attitude I have about men I assume you thought I was calling you chauvinist because I mentioned that these bitter men want a society where women have little power and choice. I used this as an example because I feel like these men, who I usually consider the less desirable, bottom shelf types can't make it with women in today's society and want a traditional society where they feel like it was easier to get a woman. I'm not in complete disagreement with you about being realistic. If I knew of a woman who was 35, overweight, ugly, uneducated and uninteresting who was turning down men left and right, all while complaining about not being married yet, I would think she needs to lower her standards. By lowering standards I mean get to know a few guys who may not meet some race, height, hair color requirement, because she might true love in one of those guys. However, when it comes to marriage settling for a man who is good enough, as that article mentioned, is a horrible idea. We're talking a life long commitment here, there needs to be love, honest, passionate love. Marring someone you're lukewarm about is an awful idea, and unfair to both individuals. There is plenty in life we'll have to settle with, I don't think a life partner is one of them. Personally, I have a loooooong list of things I want in a man, and an equally long one of things I don't want. I've had angry, bitter men here call me shallow, selfish, lots of things. These men have major issues, they get flat out angry when a woman rejects a guy or stops dating a guy she isn't developing feelings for. It's predictable and tacky behavior that makes these men even more undesirable. Hey, would you mind sharing your top 3 items on that "list" of yours? Not trying to be a jerk, just wondering.
allina Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 Hey, would you mind sharing your top 3 items on that "list" of yours? Not trying to be a jerk, just wondering. Well I'm not sure what my top 3 requirements would be in order of importance. But I'll tell you this, aside from the obvious like being a kind, honest person, traits I would want in a man are educated, smart, ambitious, active, makes a decent living and someone who values their family. In addition I would never date a man who was religious, opposed gay marriage, hunted or fished or sat on his ass in front of the tv all day. There are of other issues but these are some main ones. Of course, I need to need attracted to him and feel chemistry as well.
movingonandon Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 Well, let me ask you this, are you seeing 4 or 5 other girls in the meantime? Are you actively flirting with other women while you are kinda playing house with the one you mentioned? No, though there is one major temptation right now. Don't know if I'll give in . But, there will be a resolution soon, one way or another, we've only been together for a month...
movingonandon Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 I didn't mean specifically you. I've seen many men display the behavior I described both in this thread or others. Also, I never called you a disgusting chauvinist pig, it's not really a term I use, or an attitude I have about men I assume you thought I was calling you chauvinist because I mentioned that these bitter men want a society where women have little power and choice. I used this as an example because I feel like these men, who I usually consider the less desirable, bottom shelf types can't make it with women in today's society and want a traditional society where they feel like it was easier to get a woman. I'm not in complete disagreement with you about being realistic. If I knew of a woman who was 35, overweight, ugly, uneducated and uninteresting who was turning down men left and right, all while complaining about not being married yet, I would think she needs to lower her standards. By lowering standards I mean get to know a few guys who may not meet some race, height, hair color requirement, because she might true love in one of those guys. However, when it comes to marriage settling for a man who is good enough, as that article mentioned, is a horrible idea. We're talking a life long commitment here, there needs to be love, honest, passionate love. Marring someone you're lukewarm about is an awful idea, and unfair to both individuals. There is plenty in life we'll have to settle with, I don't think a life partner is one of them. Personally, I have a loooooong list of things I want in a man, and an equally long one of things I don't want. I've had angry, bitter men here call me shallow, selfish, lots of things. These men have major issues, they get flat out angry when a woman rejects a guy or stops dating a guy she isn't developing feelings for. It's predictable and tacky behavior that makes these men even more undesirable. Of course, nor I replied specifically to you - if nothing else, forum etiquette suggests that generalized "you" is always preferable to a personified you . As for the chauvinist pig part - it's a self-ascribed title I carry with pride, as a minor insurgency against perfectgly sensible male traits that often get mislabeled as chauvinism - if so, so be it :). Now go fetch me a beer, woman :laugh:. I'm joking! As for the list, I have a list too, but the older I get (not that I'm "old" by any contemporary standard - just recently turned 30), the more I realize that fewer and fewer things on it are true dealbreakers. For example, being serious about her career is on "my list". But why? Should I pass on perfeclty decent girl just because she seems to view her future job as "just a job"? Generous ahem... blowjobs are also high on the list, but again --> is it sensible to devalue a perfectly great sex life bexause of that, i.e. "on principle". etc., etc., etc. Basically, it's pretty complicated calculus and it's probably unwise to give a lot of weight to factors we aren't completely sure of ourselves. So if i keep going down the list like that it will pretty much boil down to 2-3 things, such as being warm, loyal, and not a completely lazy azz.
TwilightSky Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 Well I'm not sure what my top 3 requirements would be in order of importance. But I'll tell you this, aside from the obvious like being a kind, honest person, traits I would want in a man are educated, smart, ambitious, active, makes a decent living and someone who values their family. In addition I would never date a man who was religious, opposed gay marriage, hunted or fished or sat on his ass in front of the tv all day. There are of other issues but these are some main ones. Of course, I need to need attracted to him and feel chemistry as well. Hmm...okay, just wondering. And I've already known attraction is high-up on a women's list. It just irks me when some won't admit it, or flat out deny this need, and try to take the moral high ground or something . Quite amusing.
allina Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 As for the list, I have a list too, but the older I get (not that I'm "old" by any contemporary standard - just recently turned 30), the more I realize that fewer and fewer things on it are true dealbreakers. For example, being serious about her career is on "my list". But why? Should I pass on perfeclty decent girl just because she seems to view her future job as "just a job"? Generous ahem... blowjobs are also high on the list, but again --> is it sensible to devalue a perfectly great sex life bexause of that, i.e. "on principle". etc., etc., etc. Basically, it's pretty complicated calculus and it's probably unwise to give a lot of weight to factors we aren't completely sure of ourselves. So if i keep going down the list like that it will pretty much boil down to 2-3 things, such as being warm, loyal, and not a completely lazy azz. While this makes sense and there is an exception to every rule I do feel like I can't really budge on the things I want and don't want. I know myself well and I know what makes me value, respect and love a person and what puts me off. So instead of trying to force something that I know won't work I've always stuck with my ideas. I have never had a problem meeting men, or having successful relationship within my "list."
movingonandon Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 I have never had a problem meeting men, or having successful relationship within my "list." So, how come neither of these relationship led to sealing the deal? Plenty of other fish in the sea, eh? You can't win this unless you show me the marriage certificate I've discovered that what makes a succesful relaitonship is not a list of attributes but... sticking it out with somebody you actually *can* have succesful realtionship with, and only a small part of that is conditional on their attributes. My ex had everything I would ever want in a girl, and she was also a mess, albeit a hot one, so I could not be in a relatinoship with her, no matter what. My current girl has only a few of the attributes i desire, but I could see having a succesful relationship with her (unless I'm blind to some major issue). "Succesful" defined as building a stable life together, where everybody's needs are met. I may "want" a maserati, but all I really need is a toyota. The former might provide more (and most likely - tejmporary) excitement than the latter, but not necessarily a more reliable means of transportation.
allina Posted December 27, 2008 Posted December 27, 2008 So, how come neither of these relationship led to sealing the deal? Plenty of other fish in the sea, eh? You can't win this unless you show me the marriage certificate I'm not trying to "win" a debate here, just voicing my point. First, I'm 25, so I don't feel like I should already be married. I do however plan on marring my loving, stunning and all around wonderful bf. We have a wonderful relationship and I am thrilled to have met him. My previous relationships didn't work out for various little reasons, those men weren't my one, and I was not theirs. However they were good men that I still respect.
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