Well

[CAMAYPARK]

As you all know, he has moved out several months ago. D is now filed and served. His W is demanding and trying to keep everything.

 

Many many years ago, he went through voluntary bankruptcy after losing a lot of money through fraud with a business partner of his. Most of his pension was used to pay off creditors-mainly the leaseholder. It was during that time, he transferred everything -house, stocks and shares, everything into his wife's name. Anyhow, his name has been cleared for a long time now, but his wife has always refused to allow joint names on the title deeds of their house. She has also refused to transfer his stocks back to him.

 

And you know, possession is 9times...... even though he has always been the one that pays for the mortgage and all the household bill.

 

He wants to set up a trust after getting legal advice in which his W and him are trustees and their children will be the beneficiaries to these trust and into this trust will be the house. His portfolio he wants it back, of course. I think this is a good idea, therefore, no one can do anything to the house without everyone's consent. But W is not playing ball.

 

I suppose his other option is to go back, reconcile. His lawyer gave him that advice as well, that's his cheapest option. That's the option I had presented to him as well, though, he has rejected it.

 

I did that because he's 54 years of age and if he fights this, tons of money will go towards the lawyers. What a waste that will be, what a long and drawn out situation that will be. At his age, he should be looking forward to retirement, kick back, relax and enjoy his life. After all his daughter is in halfway through university, whilst his son will be there next year.

 

And furthermore, this is a man that has been lived in the security of a family type environment for over 25years. How is he going to be able to adjust living alone as he's doing now?

 

He doesn't want me to leave, he said that he has given up 25years of his life, being unhappy all those time and he's unwilling to go back to those days again. He wants to build a life with me.

 

Funny, this is my dearest wish, what he told me. However, I don't think he can afford it.

 

What do you think?

[wildsoul]

I'm wondering why you're playing devils advocate and encouraging him to consider reconcilliation as well as indulging in the fears around finance.

 

What's making you do that? Don't you want him anymore? Or is it that you don't want him if he's going to be broke? Would you rather continue with things as they were, so that you are still in an affair, but he'll have more financial stability for you two?

[2sure]

Are in the US? I ask, simply because in most states the assets of either partner in a marriage lasting that long would be divided amongs the two regardless of who holds title. Even if your state is not a community property state, assets of both are considered in the settlement. For example, take the marital home and call it paid for. The deed is in husbands name. When they divorce, it will either be sold and the profit shared as per negotiations or one partner will buy the other out.

 

You hear people screaming all the time when they get divorced because the assets are divided. No one gets to keep everything just because they are in one spouse's name. Even the debt of one spouse is often shared with the other when the settlement is negotiated.

[GreenEyedLady]

This is his choice, not yours.

 

What he chooses to do, is not because of you and cannot be blamed on you later.

 

Some people do not believe that money is the measure of success. He has lived with financial security all these years. If he is willing to trade it, then perhaps he places more value on love and happiness. Who are you to tell him it's not worth it? You do not walk in his shoes nor have you lived his experiences. He is 54 years old and if his choice is to risk money for a little bit of happiness, then who is anyone else to judge?

 

I know it's scary and you are entering the unknown. Take a deep breath and put your seatbelt on. Sometimes they actually do love you enough to give up everything and move mountains. Fear not. What will be, will be.

 

GEL

[LavendarGirl]

Not sure what the rules are in the state your MM is living in, but generally speaking, the marital home and assets that are accumulated during the marriage are considered joint, and split up as such. Just because the house is currently in the W's name doesn't necessarily mean that it's 100% her asset.

 

Case in point, my friend was in a serious car accident in high school. After a few years, there was a settlement of about $100k, and was paid to her about a year after she was married. She put the money in her name as stock investments, but used a small portion (we're talking maybe $5k or so) to pay off some bills of hers and her H.

 

They later got a D, and he was able to get 50% of her accident settlement because he could prove that she acquired the funds while they were married and that she intended for it to be marital asset (because she used some to pay off joint expenses).

 

I thought that was hogwash, why should he benefit from her pain, but just goes to show...

 

But anyhoo, I don't think you should be encouraging a reconcilement with his sW, unless there's more to the story...

[CAMAYPARK]

I'm wondering why you're playing devils advocate and encouraging him to consider reconcilliation as well as indulging in the fears around finance.

 

What's making you do that? Don't you want him anymore? Or is it that you don't want him if he's going to be broke? Would you rather continue with things as they were, so that you are still in an affair, but he'll have more financial stability for you two?

 

WS, I do not need to rely on him, in actual fact, we always split everything. I have a career which I do enjoy and earn a decent income.

 

LG & 2sure, he's in Oz, so I guess there will be some similarity in the sense that the assets will be split up; 50-50. However, W will want all of it, therefore he will have to fight her all the way in order that he gets fair settlement. In achieving fair settlement, a lot of legal fees would have to be spent and the strain on him and his kids because they will be subjected to constant screaming by his W.

 

GEL, I don't doubt his love, I just don't want to look into his eyes after several years, and read all the scracific that he made and the regret that it contains.

 

I do understand and I do know him; knowing that if he has to start all over again, it will be heartbreaking for him; 2nd time round. Don't forget he has lost everything once before with his bankruptcy.

 

My intuition tells me this - maybe its my over active imagination but I don't think that his W wants a D; hence why she is demanding everything and trying to keep everything. I think that she wants use this as a tool to taunt him; knowing how much the house means to him and their kids. He wants his children to inherit the house and that house to be maintained as a family home. I think W wants to use this to sort of say; "hey, this is what you can have, the house, the lifestyle and your kids living here or you can have nothing."

 

I am not playing devil's advocate; I just don't want him to be unhappy and poorer. Being comfortable in his latter life is important but so is his happiness, hence this dilemma.

 

Happy but poorer? Or unhappy but richer? Its not easy for me to give him up either and I would love to spend the rest of my life with him. But I also do not want to watch him so strained, tense ever so worried to start all over again; mortgage, etc etc.

 

GEL, I do wonder if he would have left if I wasn't on the scene. Its just that he's such a risk adverse type of person

[CAMAYPARK]

This is his choice, not yours.

 

What he chooses to do, is not because of you and cannot be blamed on you later.

 

Some people do not believe that money is the measure of success. He has lived with financial security all these years. If he is willing to trade it, then perhaps he places more value on love and happiness. Who are you to tell him it's not worth it? You do not walk in his shoes nor have you lived his experiences. He is 54 years old and if his choice is to risk money for a little bit of happiness, then who is anyone else to judge?

 

I know it's scary and you are entering the unknown. Take a deep breath and put your seatbelt on. Sometimes they actually do love you enough to give up everything and move mountains. Fear not. What will be, will be.

 

GEL

 

Thank you for this, GEL, this is really true and I do so hope that you are right

[wildsoul]

So you saying you're suggesting he reconcile as a way to avoid financial hardship and not have any regrets about that part. But are you also suggesting that you two break up? Or are you suggesting to him that you just keep the affair status quo?

[GreenEyedLady]

GEL, I don't doubt his love, I just don't want to look into his eyes after several years, and read all the scracific that he made and the regret that it contains.

 

I do understand and I do know him; knowing that if he has to start all over again, it will be heartbreaking for him; 2nd time round. Don't forget he has lost everything once before with his bankruptcy.

 

Happy but poorer? Or unhappy but richer? Its not easy for me to give him up either and I would love to spend the rest of my life with him. But I also do not want to watch him so strained, tense ever so worried to start all over again; mortgage, etc etc.

 

GEL, I do wonder if he would have left if I wasn't on the scene. Its just that he's such a risk adverse type of person

 

Ok, logically look at it this way.

 

Are you bereft? Are you unemployed with no source of income and no future of having income? And even if you are, the economy is such that you are not alone.

 

If you're not, is his life any worse off? I don't think so. It's probably comparable. Or almost so.

 

He would only regret if you left him at a future date and he's worse off.

 

Most people don't feel the need to leave until they find someone else. Why be alone I guess? Or as NID said on a different thread, you don't leave your job until you have another lined up, right?

 

I don't know how your story will play out. But I know that when someone loves you, they will do whatever is required to be with you. He just may be doing that. Forget about his STBXW. Don't think about her. Support him and love him and be there for him. This is between the 2 of them. Your R with him is independent of their R. And for good reason.

 

You'll be ok. I promise.

[LavendarGirl]

My intuition tells me this - maybe its my over active imagination but I don't think that his W wants a D; hence why she is demanding everything and trying to keep everything. I think that she wants use this as a tool to taunt him; knowing how much the house means to him and their kids.

 

It could easily be that his W wants to punish him for leaving and doesn't necessarily want him back.

[bentnotbroken]

He should pony up and pay the cost to play the game.

[CAMAYPARK]

So you saying you're suggesting he reconcile as a way to avoid financial hardship and not have any regrets about that part. But are you also suggesting that you two break up? Or are you suggesting to him that you just keep the affair status quo?

 

WS, Yes, I am suggesting that he reconciles as a way of avoiding financial hardship latter on in his life and I will break up and stay out of his life.

 

Take for example, with someone you love, you will want them to have the best of everything, isn't it. I just do not want him to suffer latter on perhaps regret the decision that he's made.

[CAMAYPARK]

He should pony up and pay the cost to play the game.

 

Come on BnB, you are being a tad cynical here, aren't you.

[CAMAYPARK]

Ok, logically look at it this way.

 

Are you bereft? Are you unemployed with no source of income and no future of having income? And even if you are, the economy is such that you are not alone.

 

If you're not, is his life any worse off? I don't think so. It's probably comparable. Or almost so.

 

He would only regret if you left him at a future date and he's worse off.

 

Most people don't feel the need to leave until they find someone else. Why be alone I guess? Or as NID said on a different thread, you don't leave your job until you have another lined up, right?

 

I don't know how your story will play out. But I know that when someone loves you, they will do whatever is required to be with you. He just may be doing that. Forget about his STBXW. Don't think about her. Support him and love him and be there for him. This is between the 2 of them. Your R with him is independent of their R. And for good reason.

 

You'll be ok. I promise.

 

GEL, he's a really proud man, so this won't be easy for him, in fact it will be rather difficult for him. Imagine, if you had worked all your life, went through a bankruptcy and yet able to put through your children through private schools and now in university and have virtually paid off the entire mortgage on the house of his dreams (huge house by the beach in prime Oz location). It won't be easy for him. It's just really difficult for me to see him in pain.

 

I don't know what to do. Or what can I do.

[Billie63]

I think he has to fight for his share and if need be, pay the lawyers. There is a good chance that the W will back down and divvy up before it gets too complicated.

 

It may seem to you that the wife is being extremely unfair, and I think she is unreasonable, expecting to walk away with all of it.

 

But don't forget she has been through a bankruptcy too - she probably resents him for the insecurity she felt at the time. She probably no longer trusts him with money which is why she insists on keeping it in her name.

 

I think when someone has been thru bankruptcy and come out the other side and managed to build up their portfolio again, it gives them a confidence and devil may care edge to them.

 

Even if he lost everything to her, he probably has the intelligence and drive to become a success again - he'd probably enjoy it too - it might give him a lease of life at the age of 54.

 

As for him one day resenting his 'sacrifice' as you call it - he sounds like a man who knows what he wants. If you truly love him then nothing else matters.

[child_of_isis]

Here is the way I see it...she wants it all because she no longer trusts him to do what's in the best interest of his family.

 

By having an A, he has pretty much proven that.

 

There is a better possibility that W is going to make sure he doesn't do anything stupid, because in her eyes, he is already being stupid. H has already given up home, family, an entire life, for probably what she considers "a roll in the hay", why would he not give up his children's future assets?

 

He is 54, probably going thru MLC.... (I am assuming that you are younger.) Another chance at youth, validation that he is still attractive, etc etc.

 

See what I am saying? While all of this may not be the case, it could be where her head is.

 

 

 

My intuition tells me this - maybe its my over active imagination but I don't think that his W wants a D; hence why she is demanding everything and trying to keep everything. I think that she wants use this as a tool to taunt him; knowing how much the house means to him and their kids. He wants his children to inherit the house and that house to be maintained as a family home. I think W wants to use this to sort of say; "hey, this is what you can have, the house, the lifestyle and your kids living here or you can have nothing."

 

[CAMAYPARK]

I think he has to fight for his share and if need be, pay the lawyers. There is a good chance that the W will back down and divvy up before it gets too complicated. This is what I am hoping she will agree too, too many lawyers just adds so much too the bill and also the strain of it all.

 

It may seem to you that the wife is being extremely unfair, and I think she is unreasonable, expecting to walk away with all of it.

But don't forget she has been through a bankruptcy too - she probably resents him for the insecurity she felt at the time. She probably no longer trusts him with money which is why she insists on keeping it in her name. Did she go through bankruptcy as well? She didn't because she never help him out, she just blamed him for it. She wouldn't contribute a single penny in helping him out; not what you think, but just in paying the mortgage, school fees etc.

 

I think when someone has been thru bankruptcy and come out the other side and managed to build up their portfolio again, it gives them a confidence and devil may care edge to them.

 

Even if he lost everything to her, he probably has the intelligence and drive to become a success again - he'd probably enjoy it too - it might give him a lease of life at the age of 54.

 

As for him one day resenting his 'sacrifice' as you call it - he sounds like a man who knows what he wants. If you truly love him then nothing else matters.

 

You really think it is that simple? love and happiness is much more important at this junture?

 

CiS, he has been upfront and quite honest about the entire situation with her. He has told her repeatedly through the years to seek help and try and mend their marriage. Basically at the end of the day, you cannot help someone that doesn't want to help themselves.

 

GEL, how to do I forget the W? She is always there and will always be there. He seems so stressed out and ever so worried. Its something that's really difficult to watch and play the pedestrian

[OWoman]

My intuition tells me this - maybe its my over active imagination but I don't think that his W wants a D; hence why she is demanding everything and trying to keep everything. I think that she wants use this as a tool to taunt him; knowing how much the house means to him and their kids. He wants his children to inherit the house and that house to be maintained as a family home. I think W wants to use this to sort of say; "hey, this is what you can have, the house, the lifestyle and your kids living here or you can have nothing."

 

I am not playing devil's advocate; I just don't want him to be unhappy and poorer. Being comfortable in his latter life is important but so is his happiness, hence this dilemma.

 

Happy but poorer? Or unhappy but richer? Its not easy for me to give him up either and I would love to spend the rest of my life with him. But I also do not want to watch him so strained, tense ever so worried to start all over again; mortgage, etc etc.

 

Camay my MM was in a similar position. And he was initially very happy to accommodate his W's ridiculous demands - but the more he accommodated, the more ridiculous the demands became, to the point where he put his foot down and said, equal split and that's IT! (Though even that was generous, as both his and her lawyers have advised that the judges would allocate more to him, based both on us doing the bulk of the parenting, and on her career having benefited at the expense of his, leaving her in a better financial position - at least on paper). She's tried to derail the process many times since then, but the good news is that while she can delay it (to a point) she can no longer prevent it from going ahead - and she's been told this by her lawyer; she's the one who stands to lose if it does land up going to court with no financial agreement in place. Your MM's BW may similarly benefit from some hard-nosed legal advice to put things in perspective for her - just how badly she stands to lose (as well as the kids - she may still care about them, if not about MM) if she wants to drag it all out in court.

[GreenEyedLady]

GEL, how to do I forget the W? She is always there and will always be there. He seems so stressed out and ever so worried. Its something that's really difficult to watch and play the pedestrian

 

She is only there because YOU put her there. And she won't always be there, trust me.

 

Focus on the two of you. Don't talk about her; look toward the future. Be positive. This part doesn't last forever. Use this time to strengthen your bond. It will be stressful, divorces are stressful. But he has support in you. As hard as it is, stay neutral, listen to what he says, his feelings. Soon enough it will be over and you won't have the added stressors. You can show your strength as a partner now. You have to be the strong here and it's his time to lean. He's doing right by you now. Look at all the other stories about how the MM are: wafflers, back and forth, etc.

 

He's treating you well from what I read. Let him know that you are behind him and you love him and you realize that he is taking a risk and making a certain amount of sacrifice. Don't make him feel like he's doing it for nothing. They're very insecure at this time and vulnerable.

 

Show him your love.

 

Because that's what he needs.

 

GEL

[Remy]

Hi Camay

 

Is this the same MM that you broke up with in May?? I don't know your full story but it seems you weren't happy with his lies if he is the same one.

 

Also, I don't know how old you are. You mentioned in a previous post that MM is a lot older than you. This could influence your decision because you may be worried that he "gives up everything" to be with you and you may change your mind in the future about him. In six years he will be sixty and may want to be cutting back and easing into retirement and you may want to be starting a family or something.

 

So maybe your reluctance for him to leave could be due to your indecision not his.

[CAMAYPARK]

Hi Camay

 

Is this the same MM that you broke up with in May?? I don't know your full story but it seems you weren't happy with his lies if he is the same one.

 

Also, I don't know how old you are. You mentioned in a previous post that MM is a lot older than you. This could influence your decision because you may be worried that he "gives up everything" to be with you and you may change your mind in the future about him. In six years he will be sixty and may want to be cutting back and easing into retirement and you may want to be starting a family or something.

 

So maybe your reluctance for him to leave could be due to your indecision not his.

 

Remy, we did have NC for a few months since May. We discussed and sorted out a lot of things when we started talking again. He was the one that ended the NC and it was during our NC, he sat his wife down for the 2nd time and told her about me and insisted that he's serious about and how his son has met up with me several times. I supposed it was then that W finally faced facts.

 

He is approaching 60 in 6years time, but I don't want to start a family. I am not interested. I nearly 40 now, so starting a family is not on my agenda.

 

My indecision? I do have a lot of indecisions, I admit. I wonder if my actions/inactions is appropriate given his age, etc etc. Also, would he have left if I wasn't around?

 

And then there's this tiny doubt; 1%, am I the escape clause? You know the cliche, the OW can never be The One. GEL, I know you are one of the few exceptions. OWoman, you are getting there too.

 

GEL, maybe she is there because I put her there. But its a fact. When you marry someone, you don't just marry the individual, you marry the entire family. The same is true here. His live intertwin with W, hopefully less in the future, but it will always be there. And if he's stress or upset over her, it will inevitably affect me as well, that's a given.

[GreenEyedLady]

But its a fact. When you marry someone, you don't just marry the individual, you marry the entire family. The same is true here. His live intertwin with W, hopefully less in the future, but it will always be there. And if he's stress or upset over her, it will inevitably affect me as well, that's a given.

 

I was divorced before I remarried. I have 2 children with my XH. And if you buy into the whole "their lives are intertwined forever" concept, then you're setting the stage for that to be the reality.

 

It's not that way for many families. I see my XH only at the drop-off/pick-up for the kids. We have separate everything-holidays, birthdays etc. It is not a fact that your life is forever intertwined with your X. It only is if you want it to be.

 

We're all affected when our partner is stressed. It's how you deal with the stress that matters.

 

GEL

[CAMAYPARK]

Well, apparently divorce has been filed and will be finalised if uncontested on 24Jan. They have 12months from the date of the divorce filing to settle all their financial side of things.

 

He went back home to celebrate Christmas with the kids. They had a screaming match, or rather she had a scream. She accused him of poisoning the kids, and she doesn't care if they fought this all the way, but she's going to make sure that he doesn't get a dime, certainly not from the house.

 

He was rather hoping to get all the financial side of things agreed amicably, you know, a sense of decency between 2 of them, knowing that they had shared over 25years of the lives together. Now, his other hope is a mediation.

 

Its so difficult for me to stand by in the side line, watching him suffer. Its really not because I don't care. Its because I do care. I keep thinking that he's trying to be positive. I know him and I can see that the very fact that she is striking at the heart of what he cares most; his children's inheritance is killing him.

 

Of course, once agan she is lording it over him. Her behaviour confirmed to me that she doesn't really want a divorce but its more his unwillingness to reconcile. His stance on this is that as far as he is concerned he has exhausted himself throughout the 25years trying to convince her to seek help. He has told her that he will be leaving once the kids are heading into universities.

 

You really think someone is actually so blinkered and conceited that they had ignored all the signs and all the discussions for so many years?

 

I feel really sorry for him, and I really don't what I can do. I know what his wife wants - she wants him to eat plenty of humble pie, admit that he's wrong ever to want to be happy, etc and she wants him back. Its that simple.

[frannie]

Hey CAMAYPARK... are you worried he won't leave, or are you worried he will?

 

Those feelings and worries are only natural, I think. But maybe you're giving them far too much credence? He's doing what he wants to do, isn't he?

[CAMAYPARK]

Frannie, I am not afrad that he will leave. He has left and the divorce will be finalised on 24Jan. What I am afraid off is his well being. His state of mind. He's a man that found a way of paying his mortgage even when he was made bankrupt, that's indeed something and had kept paying for his children's education despite of all the hardship.

 

This financial wrangling may tear him apart. It will make his children choose between the parents; that's not fair. As is, the W have already complained that MM is/has been poisoning their kids mind, never mind that the kds are 17 and 19 and have their own minds.

 

He has me to stand by him and I have to admit that I waver sometimes. Like when the W had the screaming match, we did nothing but discussed that incident over and over again, and he was rather sad and a tad depressed over it. Its when its bad for him, knowing that he really has 2choices- be really nasty and file for a 50% financial stake or reconciliation, that's when I waver, as I find it difficult to see him in so much pain.

 

I have advise him about a reconciliation, but he said that, that's something that he cannot do.

 

When times like now, when its kinda stable, I would want to stand by him and see this through.

 

I really hope that I have the strength to stand by him and give him the support that he needs.

 

Does anyone know what will happen next? When does it get better? Please tell me that there's a lght at the end of the tunnel